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Witcher 4 Dev talks about Ciri fan reaction: "Ciri is called a witcher in books", "we're not suddenly making up stuff just because we want to", etc

Bernardougf

Member
Why even bother with Ciri, i wonder. Literally nobody would have a problem with Geralt. Not a single soul. Not a single unsold copy by those who don't want to play as a different character than the established one everyone likes.

Is their desire to make a game about a different character so great? I get developers should be able to make the game they want all all but... why? What was wrong with Geralt? Why make this huge change on their most important game they will ever release that will make or break them? Even from a business perspective it doesn't make sense.

It's just so odd to me. Either way i wish them luck.
When you are already rich beyond generation and think your product is too big to fail .. its time to put all your ideas and bias out no matter what the source material is or what the "logical" thing to do would be. He is doing what he wants... I honestly dont think sales are the top priority here or he really thinks this will sell exactly what a Geralt Game would.
 

Mayar

Member
Sounds like a recipe for failure. They better pray people actually buy their games cause their choice is what matters whether they like it or not.
This is what I wrote about, there are always people who like or don't like the decisions made by the developers. The final choice is always up to the players, they are the ones who vote with their wallets whether they want to play it or not. And it's too late and useless to discuss anything, all the decisions have already been made and they are making the game the way they think is right, they can only hope that the players will like the final result and buy the game, if they don't buy it, well, it's their own fault.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
And it's too late and useless to discuss anything, all the decisions have already been made and they are making the game the way they think is right, they can only hope that the players will like the final result and buy the game, if they don't buy it, well, it's their own fault.
False.

It literally entered full production just this November. There’s a reason a CGI trailer is all we have.
 

Bernardougf

Member
Sounds like a recipe for failure. They better pray people actually buy their games cause their choice is what matters whether they like it or not.
I think just like Interstellar, witcher 4 is a product that wont by any means BOMB ... but ... meeting sales expectations? Well.. this remains to be seen.

As someone said.. Maintaining Geralt protagonist they would loose ZERO sales ... making Ciri protagonists they already lost sales and can only loose more as time goes by... but hey .. maybe theres an audience outhere who didnt play witcher 3 but will play w4 and compensate or overlap the sales lost...
 

FunkMiller

Member
I'm still honestly struggling to find the problem in all of this. Ciri was set up at the end of game three and in the books to be a Witcher.

Is it just the trail of the grasses people have an issue with? In which case, they'll probably explain how she survives it in the game.

I get people pushing back on 'new' protagonists in games that just repeat the same old dull formula - but Ciri has been around for many years. She's a very well established character. It fits the story that she is now the protagnist.
 
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SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
She's going to be taking the Trial of Grasses in the game. It's not going to be handwaved away as something that already happened. We're going to see her take it, her reasoning for doing it, how the people around her react to it, and how it effects her. Let them cook.
Correct, you can see from her eyes and her appearance that she's done the Trial of Grasses.

The games have never let Sapkowski's intent get in the way of what they want to do. They're not canon, they're their own thing, it's fine.

The entire trilogy sort of undermined the ending of the books, but I think at that point Geralt deserves his happy ending, and I think Witcher 3 was pretty clearly setting up Ciri to take over the whole time. I am excited to see a new arc.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
I think just like Interstellar, witcher 4 is a product that wont by any means BOMB ... but ... meeting sales expectations? Well.. this remains to be seen.

As someone said.. Maintaining Geralt protagonist they would loose ZERO sales ... making Ciri protagonists they already lost sales and can only loose more as time goes by... but hey .. maybe theres an audience outhere who didnt play witcher 3 but will play w4 and compensate or overlap the sales lost...
Just like someone here said, I can see someone only playing W3 so they want more Geralt. Personally, I’m fine with a new protagonist whether it’s Ciri or another completely different Witcher.

The issue is wanting Ciri to be both. They want to keep the core concoction based mechanic while introducing the unique powers Ciri has. On paper, it sounds good. As a book reader though, it kinda fucks up a lot of things that were previously established.

As a whole, I think there are definitely a lot more newcomers and players in general to Witcher who experienced it first on Witcher 3 so their needs definitely has more weight and if it meant more Geralt then doing otherwise are potential lost sales.
 
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With Geralt, we already knew we were going to clap cheeks at some point.. with Ciri... I'd rather go solo and clap my own cheeks.
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
As far I know the author of the books launched multiple books and always with the same protagonist. Theres a reason for this. (Im not a reader of the books so if this is wrong please feel free to correct me)

So for me this is one more case of the writers of some adapted media trying to detach themselfs from the source material as a "look Im too am a great writer maybe better than the original one" ... many many try to do this ... most fail.
I don't know the sales for each book but the later Witcher books have Geralt almost as a side character...in favor of a lot of Ciri. She features extensively. No idea of those books sold poorly, though he did stop writing them for like 2 decades until the games re-awoke interest in the IP, or at least brought it to the larger english speaking audience.

Calling herself a Witcher is fine, it's really just a title for a certain type of monster hunter. The training, their lore about how to defeat certain creatures, their specific tactics, thats the REAL value of a witcher. The mutagenic properties of the Trial and their potions really just give them an edge. I think Ciri could have held her own without the need to put her through the Trials as she has access to her own forms of magic. But the Witcher game mechanics probably forced their hand to make her be able to do all the same stuff.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I’ve asked you this before, but are you retarded?

If the author calls her a Witcher, she is a Witcher. Why? Because he made it up. You realize the author just made shit up, yes? Just Poof! Out of thin air. He can continue to make things up.

Fiction isn’t real.
>Are you retarded?
>Then proceeds to make a retarded post
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
With Geralt, we already knew we were going to clap cheeks at some point.. with Ciri... I'd rather go solo and clap my own cheeks.
I'll be curious if she is anywhere near as sex hungry as Geralt. Are we gonna get a chance to go down on Yenn and Triss or just blow Dandelion? Seems unlikely to me but who knows? Maybe the Trial burned out her sex drive as a way of sidestepping the issue.
 

Thebonehead

Gold Member
My issue with this is that I wanted a Geralt continuation as that's why I enjoyed the previous games.

For that reason it should be called The Witcher: Ciris fun adventures. Just don't sell it to me as a mainline Witcher game

Gears 4/5 fell flat to me because it wasn't Marcus and crew.J.D and Kait were boring.

Likewiae Tlou2 didn't resonate as I didn't have the nvestment required for the new male lead Abby.

Imagine the next God of War: Odin turns out to be an Atreus adventure.

Anyway I seem to remember the author has beef with CDPR about the teens if their deal, so if he wants to tank it he can just come out and say she's not Witcher just to fuck them around.

Just my ramblings at 430am in the morning.
 
I'll be curious if she is anywhere near as sex hungry as Geralt. Are we gonna get a chance to go down on Yenn and Triss or just blow Dandelion? Seems unlikely to me but who knows? Maybe the Trial burned out her sex drive as a way of sidestepping the issue.
I wouldn't be surprised if they watered down the sex scenes or nixxed them entirely. Which would be a shame. I'm interested in seeing how they handle that.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
I'll be curious if she is anywhere near as sex hungry as Geralt. Are we gonna get a chance to go down on Yenn and Triss or just blow Dandelion? Seems unlikely to me but who knows? Maybe the Trial burned out her sex drive as a way of sidestepping the issue.
I doubt it. She has had a traumatizing sexual past. She did have a love interest at the end but the game kinda erased that.

I’ll settle for pornographic trading cards from local whores.
 

Ashamam

Member
I laugh hard at all the sudden experts in the lore. I'll put money on them not having read the books. I have. This has always been a story about Ciri, its the most natural progression there could be in making her the chief protagonist of the next game.

Lets face it a huge amount of the concern can be filed under Tate. Its a disease.
 

FunkMiller

Member
My issue with this is that I wanted a Geralt continuation as that's why I enjoyed the previous games.

Honestly, that would make zero sense given how the third game ends, and the story is more important than anything else in a game like this (with the obvious exception of the gameplay).
 
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killatopak

Gold Member
I laugh hard at all the sudden experts in the lore. I'll put money on them not having read the books.
Here you go

y1XhtH6.jpeg
 

killatopak

Gold Member
Then you understand in a lot of ways Ciri (the enigma) is the centre of the story not Geralt. How they treat the gameplay powers etc I'll wait and see, but if your concerns were actually what the internet was on about a rational discussion could be had.
I do but there are valid concerns from people who aren’t that well versed in the book and some concerns that are ridiculous like that fat ciri thread.

It’s a wait and see, I agree but some dishonest journalism is muddying the water.
 

peek

Member
The lore stuff is who caaares. Its fine. Make it work. Its just damn, they really BEEFED her up a bit huh?

Im still hopeful itll be good and not completely overbearing with the weirdo social messaging.
 

DaciaJC

Gold Member
Does he 'approve' of Ciri being a fully fledged witcher? I ask as it's a bit of a discussion point with fans at the moment, about whether she is or she isn't officially a witcher, whether she goes through the Trial of the Grasses [CDPR has confirmed that she does, in the time before The Witcher 4]. Has he explicitly said, say, 'yes, that's absolutely fine'?

Weber:
I mean, I can actually give you a very good answer, because it's the answer that Andrzej Sapkowski usually gives: the answer is in the books. And in the books, Andrzej Sapkowski called Ciri a witcher multiple times, and Geralt called Ciri a witcher in the books too. So I think that basically says what Andrzej Sapkowski thinks about the topic.


This sounds like a cop-out answer. Ciri is referred to as "witcher girl" or "witcheress" a few times in the books, does that mean she actually was one? No, as evidenced by the fact she did not undergo the Trial of the Grasses. She may have been gifted at swordplay, but then so was Leo Bonhart, and he was no witcher. She may have fought a monster or two, but then so did Sir Eyck and Yarpen Zigrin's crew, and they were no witchers. I think the reason Geralt occasionally refers to her as "witcher" is simply to give her a sense of belonging, separated as she is from the rest of humanity by her special lineage. To go from that to full-blooded mutant is quite the leap.

That being said, I'm not entirely unopposed to the idea - Ciri herself contemplates the prospect of finding work as a "witcher girl" in Galahad's world at the end of The Lady of the Lake - but time will tell how well CDPR justify the setup for TW4. That they replaced Ciri's original voice actor with someone who, at least in this reveal trailer, put forth a thoroughly unconvincing performance is already not a great sign.

I laugh hard at all the sudden experts in the lore. I'll put money on them not having read the books. I have. This has always been a story about Ciri, its the most natural progression there could be in making her the chief protagonist of the next game.

Lets face it a huge amount of the concern can be filed under Tate. Its a disease.

Oh, please, spare us the insinuations. It should be obvious that there are plenty of valid reasons to be concerned with what CDPR is attempting here.
 

V1LÆM

Gold Member
This sounds like a cop-out answer. Ciri is referred to as "witcher girl" or "witcheress" a few times in the books, does that mean she actually was one? No, as evidenced by the fact she did not undergo the Trial of the Grasses. She may have been gifted at swordplay, but then so was Leo Bonhart, and he was no witcher. She may have fought a monster or two, but then so did Sir Eyck and Yarpen Zigrin's crew, and they were no witchers. I think the reason Geralt occasionally refers to her as "witcher" is simply to give her a sense of belonging, separated as she is from the rest of humanity by her special lineage. To go from that to full-blooded mutant is quite the leap.

That being said, I'm not entirely unopposed to the idea - Ciri herself contemplates the prospect of finding work as a "witcher girl" in Galahad's world at the end of The Lady of the Lake - but time will tell how well CDPR justify the setup for TW4. That they replaced Ciri's original voice actor with someone who, at least in this reveal trailer, put forth a thoroughly unconvincing performance is already not a great sign.



Oh, please, spare us the insinuations. It should be obvious that there are plenty of valid reasons to be concerned with what CDPR is attempting here.
You do know the games are set after the books, right? Why are you suddenly looking at the books? The first 3 games change things from the books.
 

V1LÆM

Gold Member
My issue with this is that I wanted a Geralt continuation as that's why I enjoyed the previous games.

For that reason it should be called The Witcher: Ciris fun adventures. Just don't sell it to me as a mainline Witcher game

Gears 4/5 fell flat to me because it wasn't Marcus and crew.J.D and Kait were boring.

Likewiae Tlou2 didn't resonate as I didn't have the nvestment required for the new male lead Abby.

Imagine the next God of War: Odin turns out to be an Atreus adventure.

Anyway I seem to remember the author has beef with CDPR about the teens if their deal, so if he wants to tank it he can just come out and say she's not Witcher just to fuck them around.

Just my ramblings at 430am in the morning.
Play Witcher 3 again and pay attention this time. Geralt’s story is done and we’ve known that since like 2015/2016.
 

Monjiro

Member
She's going to be taking the Trial of Grasses in the game. It's not going to be handwaved away as something that already happened. We're going to see her take it, her reasoning for doing it, how the people around her react to it, and how it effects her. Let them cook.

And that is even more of a redflag for me as they most likely will "fridge" Geralt for character development.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
First, it's "dev", not "devs". Secondly, insinuating one would be fulfilled performing an action, doesn't also automatically mean they would "prefer" doing said action as opposed to another. This feels like a mischaracterization of what was said
The exact quote was included for you to read yourself before making a point about the situation and you still take it literally as if I’m making up a fake quote. Take your pills.
 

Raven117

Member
>Are you retarded?
>Then proceeds to make a retarded post
Moron.

It’s all make believe bullshit you vaping neck beard.

I just want you to understand that fiction is made up. If the author themselves says something is or isint, then that’s it. They can literally make it up as they go along.

Just because it’s a women as a main character doesn’t make it woke. Bad writing, no character development, and “the message” makes it woke. Here, so far, it doesn’t look like that, or at least we don’t know.
 
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xrnzaaas

Member
Why even bother with Ciri, i wonder. Literally nobody would have a problem with Geralt. Not a single soul. Not a single unsold copy by those who don't want to play as a different character than the established one everyone likes.

Is their desire to make a game about a different character so great? I get developers should be able to make the game they want all all but... why? What was wrong with Geralt? Why make this huge change on their most important game they will ever release that will make or break them? Even from a business perspective it doesn't make sense.

It's just so odd to me. Either way i wish them luck.
What's more most people only finished 1 game with Geralt in it. Witcher 1 remains a PC-only title and it's quite old. Witcher 2 released only on one console and wasn't remastered. Not to mention the breaks between games were very long, definitely enough time not to feel fatigued from playing as the same character.

Same situation with Mass Effect, I bet if you asked the fans most would respond they'd love to play as Shepard again even if that didn't make sense with how ME3 ended.
 

Warablo

Member
Ciri makes a great protag because the gameplay options are endless with her abilities, though they did say she is limited story wise so she isn't OP.
 

Toons

Member
Witcher_IV_Wallpaper_02_41920x1080_EN_q70_1920x1080.jpeg




Does he 'approve' of Ciri being a fully fledged witcher? I ask as it's a bit of a discussion point with fans at the moment, about whether she is or she isn't officially a witcher, whether she goes through the Trial of the Grasses [CDPR has confirmed that she does, in the time before The Witcher 4]. Has he explicitly said, say, 'yes, that's absolutely fine'?

Weber:
I mean, I can actually give you a very good answer, because it's the answer that Andrzej Sapkowski usually gives: the answer is in the books. And in the books, Andrzej Sapkowski called Ciri a witcher multiple times, and Geralt called Ciri a witcher in the books too. So I think that basically says what Andrzej Sapkowski thinks about the topic.


Sticking with Ciri for a bit, there's been I think what you might call some 'pushback' from some people already on her being the main protagonist, for a range of reasons, right? Some of them because maybe they didn't enjoy the gameplay of the Ciri sections of The Witcher 3 as much as the other parts. Or they believe that she's not a real witcher, even though like you say it's in the books; or they want to make their own character; or they don't like her appearance in the trailer. What do you make of that response so far? Do you feel like that was inevitable?

Weber:
I think there's many very valid worries and responses, because I think a lot of them come out of passion, and I think a lot of those questions are also questions that we asked ourselves. So we really, again, say that we are beholden to the lore, the canon of the books by Andrzej Sapkowski, the three previous Witcher games, and we'd want to take that seriously, and we really want to respect that. So all the answers we basically want to give in The Witcher 4 are in line with this attitude.We're not suddenly making up stuff just because we want to. We really want to take these things seriously.

So I can really understand if some people, you know, might have wished to play another game with Geralt - like I can say myself, I could make games about Geralt until the day I die, and I would probably die happy. But I think for me, and I think for all of us [at CDPR], it's also just really exciting to see all the opportunities that Ciri brings us, both with her character, and also by just virtue of who she is, what we can do with her in terms of the gameplay as well. So I think the best answer for us, for those people that really are worried right now, is basically to show them, when we are ready, that we really do this well and with care. And I think - I hope - we can then convince them with the game itself. Because I think actions speak louder than words.

Kalemba: Yeah, well said. And on top of that, just please remember that we are also not only developers, but we are also gamers, right? And, you know, we've started with the second protagonist already in The Wild Hunt. And so there was already a tease. So we really [are] all about making sure such calls are very educated calls. And we really believe, as Philip already said, that we also have so much of a great story to tell with Ciri, and she deserves that.



I like their transparency.

Actions speak louder than words when everyone involved agrees on that universally true premise.

Unfortunately, many of thus games potential audience won't. They are influenced by words from people whos actions don't back then up, who are trying rile them up into an outrage.

Hopefully that era dies down but it's not looking likely.
 

Braag

Member
This is true, despite not having been subjected to trial of the grasses she was still trained to fight like a witcher and have the knowledge to identify monsters, wraiths and curses. So yeah, she is a witcher, minus the mutations.
I'm still very interested in what could the reason be for Ciri to undergo the mutations and how did she survive it considering her age and being a woman.
 

Physiocrat

Member
Public straight talking (even if disingenuous) from devs only happens when they respond to "bad people". People who oppose the Witcher 4 being about Ciri are clearly politically and socially suspect so responding in this way is considered acceptable.

If the complaints were from "Marginalised Groups TM" then you would have the most careful and slippery answer possible.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
When a studio is constantly defending itself publicly (we don’t hire based on DEI, Ciri is a Witcher) it just appears as though they are on the back foot and aren’t confident in their product.
 
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