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[captainnapalm]

In a way they're trapped by the lore - I think all the stuff around Ciri is the least interesting parts about the Witcher lore - it's just your bog-standard chosen one stuff shoe-horned into a dark fantasy world that is much more interesting without it. Also a Witcher as a concept is ridiculously masculine coded - so to make Ciri the successor to the Witchers wasn't a very good idea. The role of a Witcher will never fit her particularly well.

 

[Isendurl]

But he never says anything about them not being lethal to her if she undertakes the trials, does he? He never says anything about her having any form of resistance to the mutations, and he sure as shit doesn't endorse an adult woman taking them and surviving when it's just about the worst combination possible. In fact, he tells us clearly that prepubescent boys are the best candidates (and still mostly die), but sure, let's act like Geralt calling her a witcher explains away everything.

Btw in CDPR own lore there already is woman Witcher, in Witcher 1 there's a woman name White Rayla, who was adult and even mortally wounded and she was given Witcher mutagens and survived. Strangely did not saw anyone complaining about the lore then.

If you want to know what I think, I think Ciri is the main protag because of modern audiences. She's manned up because the last Ciri was too feminine and appealing to men, and I just can't be bothered anymore when cyperpunk was at best boring and The Witcher 3 gameplay really hasn't held up that well. Geralt made that game, I'm sorry. I know it's a meme, but a lot of the game was held together by the VA.

So was it also decision for modern audiences when author of the books ditched Geralt and decided to make Ciri the protagonist of his next Witcher book? In Poland 1997?

The devs would prefer to make more games with Geralt and the audience would prefer to play more games as Geralt, so let’s not do that.

Yes, lets never make changes to our IPs, it all has to be the same all the time, we all must protect the status quo at all cost. It is working well for Disney right?

 

[BbMajor7th]

At the end of the day it's a game and product.

For something of that scale to be successful, you need to appeal to your audience.

They clearly don't understand who most of their audience are.

That complaint would make way more sense applied to Cyberpunk, when they shifted from third-person historical fantasy with fixed protagonist to first-person futuristic sci-fi with customisable character.

'Same shit with heavily-telegraphed protege' is infinitely closer to what originally captured their fanbase.

 

[GymWolf]

I'm still honestly struggling to find the problem in all of this. Ciri was set up at the end of game three and in the books to be a Witcher.

Is it just the trail of the grasses people have an issue with? In which case, they'll probably explain how she survives it in the game.

I get people pushing back on 'new' protagonists in games that just repeat the same old dull formula - but Ciri has been around for many years. She's a very well established character. It fits the story that she is now the protagnist.

It's very simple, many people don't give a fuck about ciri and don't want to have her as a protagonist because they don't like her.

Like i said to another dude that never answered back, if borderlands devs push bd3's ava as the next protagonist, would you be happy to have her just because devs and lore say so? No, people hate ava and they would not be happy.
Ciri is more beloved than ava obiviously, but not by everyone.

Not everyone gives a fuck or liked ciri in w3, i enjoyed both expansion vastly more than vanilla plot because she is barely there at all and the plot wasn't about searching for her ass all the time.

 

[Xtib81]

Let's ask the author of the books so we can call it a day.

 

[The_Observer]

I might be missing context here because I’m yet to play Witcher 3 but do I understand it right that the problem is that this game is called Witcher 4? And it’s a problem because Ciri can’t be a real witcher due to lore reasons. So if the game was called something else, like having a subtitle that clarifies that she is not a real witcher it would be ok? I’m genuinely trying to understand what’s the issue here.

 

[Gaiff]

Btw in CDPR own lore there already is woman Witcher, in Witcher 1 there's a woman name White Rayla, who was adult and even mortally wounded and she was given Witcher mutagens and survived. Strangely did not saw anyone complaining about the lore then.

Rayla isn’t a witcher. Where did you get that?

 

[Bernardougf]

Just like someone here said, I can see someone only playing W3 so they want more Geralt. Personally, I’m fine with a new protagonist whether it’s Ciri or another completely different Witcher.

The issue is wanting Ciri to be both. They want to keep the core concoction based mechanic while introducing the unique powers Ciri has. On paper, it sounds good. As a book reader though, it kinda fucks up a lot of things that were previously established.

As a whole, I think there are definitely a lot more newcomers and players in general to Witcher who experienced it first on Witcher 3 so their needs definitely has more weight and if it meant more Geralt then doing otherwise are potential lost sales.

I think they will do what this people always do ... write her character basically as a man and throw her skin over it ... there will be plot lines dealing with misogyny and whatnot, some lesbian romances and so on ... writing her really as a good woman character without overlapping with mans characteristics would be the fucking surprise... but it wont happen.

 

[Fake]

Probably will force things that never happen in the books just because is a Ciri simp.

 

[MarkMe2525]

The exact quote was included for you to read yourself before making a point about the situation and you still take it literally as if I’m making up a fake quote. Take your pills.

Me reading the article is exactly what made me realize it was a mischaracterization . Would these pills help me misinterpret written text?

 

[Superkewl]

I read the books like 10 years ago, and don't recall them in very specific detail, but I was not a fan of what you would call the "main saga" books, specifically for the reasons mentioned. Too much Ciri, not enough Geralt. My love for the Witcher world comes specifically from the short story books, which I believe were the first two and the last two, if I can recall correctly.

I have no intention of spending 50-100 hours playing as a character I do not like.

 

[kruis]

Western entertainment business mentality and reasoning this past decade is just bizarre ... no other word to describe

It's the progressive hive mind at work. These people feel they have to make these changes to go with the times, do what's expected of them by others in their group and escape criticism. They've become afraid to do what they themselves actually want to play and make, but make these authorial decisions to stave off future criticism from other progressives (developers, journalists, etc). Being authentic and true to the source material will only put them in a situation where they'll be constantly criticized by their peers.

And so they create games that are increasingly criticized and now outright rejected by the paying public. It just boggles the mind they never seem to care about that aspect at all.

 

[Thebonehead]

Me reading the article is exactly what made me realize it was a mischaracterization . Would these pills help me misinterpret written text?

 

[Isendurl]

Rayla isn’t a witcher. Where did you get that?

I played the game, If you join the Order of the Flaming Rose, she gets almost killed by Scoia'tael but Azar gets her and turns her into one of his mutated Witcher freaks and then you have to fight her.

 

[Bert Big Balls]

She's also called a Witcher in Witcher 3 by Yennifer. Source: literally just played this section an hour ago.

 

[Raven117]

Yet here you are flinging insults at someone who didn’t attack you. The irony is palpable.

Nothing ironic about it. I think you are in dire need of perspective on this topic.

I’ll leave it at that

 

[PectacularOz]

Well damn that was a refreshingly straight answer. No damning the detractors or anything, just some sympathy and an insight on their reasoning.

I’m still playing through the Witcher 3, so I’m curious if any lore buffs could answer; is Ciri an honorary Witcher in the books or did she manage to pass the trials? I’ve heard no woman had passed them. Is that a physicality thing or some kind of spiritual reason?

Geralt barely passed and thus would not let her attempt.
She was partially raised by witches (Yenn) before weapon/hunting training with Geralt.
She spends most of her time on her own, on the run and cohorting with a nefarious group called The Rats. Althougg she also spent some time as a slave to the Witcher hunter (I forget his name.. great villain)

 

[Gaiff]

I played the game, If you join the Order of the Flaming Rose, she gets almost killed by Scoia'tael but Azar gets her and turns her into one of his mutated Witcher freaks and then you have to fight her.

Yeah, I recall that part, but those people aren’t witchers, they’re enhanced puppets they manipulate and her mind is fucked up.

 

[EviLore]

I played the game, If you join the Order of the Flaming Rose, she gets almost killed by Scoia'tael but Azar gets her and turns her into one of his mutated Witcher freaks and then you have to fight her.

She's not a Witcher. She's experimented on and turned into some kind of zombie. Timecoded video:

 

[DeepEnigma]

"we're not suddenly making up stuff just because we want to"

He's talking about you western devs.

They are a western dev. Just in jankland.

 

[Isendurl]

Yeah, I recall that part, but those people aren’t witchers, they’re enhanced puppets they manipulate and her mind is fucked up.

Whole point of them was, that they were "the perfect" Witchers in the Jacques fucked up view, because regular Witchers still had feelings, which was unnecessary according to him. They were also create by stolen Wicher mutagens, which I thought was the gist of your argument? That Woman cannot survive them.

She's not a Witcher. She's experimented on and turned into some kind of zombie. Timecoded video:

Did you played the game or you just looked it up on YouTube? The while point of these "zombies" was that they we created by Witcher mutagens and I thought the argument here was that woman cannot survive those.

 

[EviLore]

Did you played the game or you just looked it up on YouTube? The while point of these "zombies" was that they we created by Witcher mutagens and I thought the argument here was that woman cannot survive those.

I have finished TW1 three times. They were, so far as I know, created by experimentation and mutation but there is nothing about it being through the trial of the grasses. You should exit the thread now.

 

[Three]

"we're not suddenly making up stuff just because we want to"

He's talking about you western devs.

So, themselves?

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Pretty weak. They should just say they wanted to make a game with a female lead. Pretending they're staying true to the books is just ridiculous.

 

[Gaiff]

Whole point of them was, that they were "the perfect" Witchers in the Jacques fucked up view, because regular Witchers still had feelings, which was unnecessary according to him. They were also create by stolen Wicher mutagens, which I thought was the gist of your argument? That Woman cannot survive them.



Did you played the game or you just looked it up on YouTube? The while point of these "zombies" was that they we created by Witcher mutagens and I thought the argument here was that woman cannot survive those.

It's not the Trial of Grasses. At the start of the game where they break into Kaer Moren, they steal mutagens from the keep. Later on, they experiment even on animals with the objective of creating mutant supersoldiers. Those guys are NOT witchers and they didn't go through the Trial of Grasses. They're merely people who got enhanced using mutagens as a base, but no one knows how the entire process goes, or what kind of modifications they did. Furthermore, Rayla's mind was effectively gone, so if your argument is that a woman got messed up mutations that turned her into a slave, thus Ciri should survive the Trials of Grasses, I will have to disagree.

They're never once called witchers, yet you tried to claim they were. They're mutant zombies.

Nothing ironic about it. I think you are in dire need of perspective on this topic.

I’ll leave it at that

"we're not suddenly making up stuff just because we want to"​

They're saying verbatim they're not making stuff up as a defense, aka, we're not just making shit up out of thin air. Yet here you said:

They can literally make it up as they go along.

But they're defending themselves from these accusations. Funny, huh? Almost as if any writer worth their salt knows you don't just make shit up on the fly. You accuse me of lacking perspective when from the dev's perspective, "making it up as you go along" is a no-go. Not that you needed anyone to tell you that.

And yeah, leave it at that.

 

[Fake]

If people start to call me a Witcher I become one?

Ciri will get her powers similar to the recent Star Wars Rey.

 

[Kacho]

It’s all make believe bullshit you vaping neck beard.

 

[Fake]

Did you played the game or you just looked it up on YouTube?

You are really trying your luck dude.

 

[Gaiff]

 

[hemo memo]

So, themselves?

Other western devs.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Wasn't CDPR on the DEI list?

 

[Isendurl]

I have finished TW1 three times. They were, so far as I know, created by experimentation and mutation but there is nothing about it being through the trial of the grasses. You should exit the thread now.

Yes, they were created by experimentation on the grasses they stole from Kaer Morhen in prolog of the game, that is the whole point! Those "zombies" even fight like Witchers in the game, you should know that.

So those mutagens can be modified to create Witcher "zombies", but they cannot be modified so woman can pass? Is this the argument now?

Also if you want me to exit the thread you can ban me, you should have the power.

It's not the Trial of Grasses. At the start of the game where they break into Kaer Moren, they steal mutagens from the keep. Later on, they experiment even on animals with the objective of creating mutant supersoldiers. Those guys are NOT witchers and they didn't go through the Trial of Grasses. They're merely people who got enhanced using mutagens as a base, but no one knows how the entire process goes, or what kind of modifications they did. Furthermore, Rayla's mind was effectively gone, so if your argument is that a woman got messed up mutations that turned her into a slave, thus Ciri should survive the Trials of Grasses, I will have to disagree.

They're never once called witchers, yet you tried to claim they were. They're mutant zombies.

My argument is that CDPR already created game where Witcher mutagens where modified so they can be used in completely different way and yes, those "zombies" are enhanced mutated super fighters created by Witcher mutagens to protect humanity, this is exactly what Witchers are. So there is no reason to think those mutagens cannot be modified further so Woman can survive them to be relatively normal, imho.

Again, whole point of these zombies is that this is how normal people see other Witcher like Geralt, they even fight like Witchers in the game. The fact that they are never called Witchers does not mean anything. Multiple people called Ciri Witcher and that does not make her one.

And btw I have this part of the first game, I have these zombies, but other people seems to think that Witcher 1 is most lore accurate Witcher game, which I have a huge problem with. I don't like Witcher 1, but it is canon for CDPR so...

 

[touchfuzzy]

It's almost like this is all a made up fantasy anyway so whether it "can" or "can not" happen actually doesn't matter and can be altered at any time for any reason.

 

[Fake]

Wasn't CDPR on the DEI list?

Yes. Is on their page.

 

[Raven117]

It's not the Trial of Grasses. At the start of the game where they break into Kaer Moren, they steal mutagens from the keep. Later on, they experiment even on animals with the objective of creating mutant supersoldiers. Those guys are NOT witchers and they didn't go through the Trial of Grasses. They're merely people who got enhanced using mutagens as a base, but no one knows how the entire process goes, or what kind of modifications they did. Furthermore, Rayla's mind was effectively gone, so if your argument is that a woman got messed up mutations that turned her into a slave, thus Ciri should survive the Trials of Grasses, I will have to disagree.

They're never once called witchers, yet you tried to claim they were. They're mutant zombies.

"we're not suddenly making up stuff just because we want to"​

They're saying verbatim they're not making stuff up as a defense, aka, we're not just making shit up out of thin air. Yet here you said:



But they're defending themselves from these accusations. Funny, huh? Almost as if any writer worth their salt knows you don't just make shit up on the fly. You accuse me of lacking perspective when from the dev's perspective, "making it up as you go along" is a no-go. Not that you needed anyone to tell you that.

And yeah, leave it at that.

Reading comp a problem? It’s the author that can make it up. It’s his story. If he says Ciri is a Witcher, she is a Witcher. Plenty of reasons why this could work.

(But, I will acknowledge that better writing is consistent with established logic of the world. The more a writer comes up with ways around the story’s logic, usually the less compelling it is)

 

[Gaiff]

(But, I will acknowledge that better writing is consistent with established logic of the world. The more a writer comes up with ways around the story’s logic, usually the less compelling it is)

Yeah, no shit. So why do you insult people when they take issue with something that is blatantly not consistent with the game world?

 

[Madflavor]

Yeah, no shit. So why do you insult people when they take issue with something that is blatantly not consistent with the game world?

He shouldn't be insulting you or anyone else. That said, things do change. Not just in storytelling, but in real life. There was a time we thought we were at the center of the universe. There was also a time when people thought it impossible to go to space. Just because something was once true, doesn't mean it will always be that way. But in regards to fiction, you can point to so many examples of the lore of a setting changing, for better or worse. People might call it a lore retcon, I would refer to it as the lore evolving. Obviously if it's badly written, lazy, and makes no sense, then yes I would refer to it more as a retcon. But if there's a lot of though put into it, and it serves a purpose in the story, then it doesn't necessarily mean it's a retcon.

The Witcher 3 establishes the process of the Trial of Grasses is nearly forgotten, and Witchers are on their way out. However towards the end of The Witcher 3, another Conjuction of Spheres occurs, potentially bringing in more monsters into the world. It stands to reason that there will be a need for a new generation of Witchers. How will the Trial of Grasses be rediscovered? We don't know yet. How will Ciri survive it? It it because she's unique? Is it because it will be a new variation of the trial that can allow both sexes to survive? We don't know yet. But seeing as how CDPR have mentioned that they will explore this, I don't think this is really worth all the time and energy to get mad about it, until we see what they do with it.

 

[MagiusNecros]

If people start to call me a Witcher I become one?

Ciri will get her powers similar to the recent Star Wars Rey.

You joke but I think we might have another Rey on our hands. And Rey's problem was poor writing that hurts the story and the lore of Star Wars and suspension of disbelief from the audience. Not Rey herself. I mean...

Witcher is going down the path of well the books and the past 3 games don't matter in the same vein that Expanded Universe in Star Wars is deemed non-canon. Just so Rey can exist and Jacen and Jaina Solo do not. Not to mention no Mara Jade either. Divided fanbase is the result.

It would not surprise me if Ciri is illustrated to have no Witcher experience which is untrue given what she has been through since the Age of 9 and events depicted in Witcher 3, does everything better then Geralt who has years of experience, has little to no drawbacks or repercussions across whatever plot they want to use, and retcon in the creation of new Witchers because they discovered if you make scrambled eggs with Witcher blood and add some salt and pepper with a touch of Elder Blood anyone can be a Witcher and survive. Who knew.

Next people will tell me LOTR: Rings of Power was good.

 

[Mortisfacio]

Ciri:
-Elder Blood
-Child of Destiny
-Can Transcend time and space
-30 year history of lore of routinely being shown to be incredibly unique
-2nd conjunction post-Witcher 3 that we don't know the details of

Some dumbass on the internet:
-"Yah, but she can't be a Witcher because some orphan girls died! SHE'S JUST LIKE THEM!!!"

 

[EviLore]

Ciri:
-Elder Blood
-Child of Destiny
-Can Transcend time and space
-30 year history of lore of routinely being shown to be incredibly unique
-2nd conjunction post-Witcher 3 that we don't know the details of

Some dumbass on the internet:
-"Yah, but she can't be a Witcher because some orphan girls died! SHE'S JUST LIKE THEM!!!"

-No need to do the Trial of the Grasses, many reasons not to

 

[Mortisfacio]

-No need to do the Trial of the Grasses, many reasons not to

CD Projekt Red says Ciri is "faster, more agile" in The Witcher 4, but she won't be OP like she is at the end of The Witcher 3: "Something totally happened in between"

What happened to Ciri?

www.gamesradar.com

Given how powerful the White Wolf's adopted daughter is by the end of the game regardless, CD Projekt Red is quick to assure us that she won't be overwhelmingly so in The Witcher 4. She's no Mary Sue.

"The gap between her being totally overpowered at the end of the previous game and now," reveals executive producer Małgorzata Mitręga, "with the skill set we showed off in the trailer… something totally happened in between."

CDPR is already on record stating there's a reason for this, we just don't know what it is yet. Is it the white frost? 2nd conjunction? Something else? We'll know eventually.

 

[Fake]

^ Do you have any mirror in your own house before making statments like 'Some dumbass on the internet'?

 

[Mortisfacio]

^ Do you have any mirror in your own house before making statments like 'Some dumbass on the internet'?

No, I don't have a picture of you in my house.

 

[Fake]

No, I don't have a picture of you in my house.

Thats explain a lot. Just be careful about what are going to say to anyone who disagree with you. You might not like the results.

 

[Mortisfacio]

Thats explain a lot. Just be careful about what are going to say to anyone who disagree with you. You might not like the results.

If you're ignoring 30 years of lore build-up to compare to some random orphan girls, that's just ignorance. I have no problem calling you out for it.

 

[Fake]

If you're ignoring 30 years of lore build-up to compare to some random orphan girls, that's just ignorance. I have no problem calling you out for it.

I'm not the one here ignoring Trial of the Grasses.

 

[MagiusNecros]

If you're ignoring 30 years of lore build-up

Like CDPR is?

 

[Mortisfacio]

I'm not the one here ignoring Trial of the Grasses.

No, you're ignoring 30 years of build-up that Ciri is not some random orphan girl. You're comparing randoms to an incredibly unique character in the story with powers beyond that of anyone else in the lore.

That's incredibly dishonest. Dumbass, even.

 

[Fake]

No, you're ignoring 30 years of build-up that Ciri is not some random orphan girl. You're comparing randoms to an incredibly unique character in the story with powers beyond that of anyone else in the lore.

That's incredibly dishonest. Dumbass, even.

But you are the one ignoring the Trial of the Grasses. Not only that, insulting every discussion about the Trial of the Grasses lore.

Can surprise you, but the Trial of the Grasses are a part of the 30 years of build-up you keep repeating in this thread many many times.

Talking about dumbass... already told you about insulting folks here.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I’m a Witcher.