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World of Warcraft |OT3|

TheYanger

Member
So I already have D3 preordered and I'll be getting it for around $40 yet I somehow want to get the annual pass even though I'm not certain I'll stick around for the year.

get pass, cancel preorder?

They sent me an email today for that stupid yearly pass. I already bought D3, Im not doing it. I have no real idea how much Ill play D3, I might decide to cancel my WoW account for months. Especially since MOP probably wont hit until August or later. No way will I commit to a year.

Keep in mind, mathematically if you stay subbed to wow for 8 of the 12 months it's still a good proposition (free mount if nothing else, and break even cost). also no tax on D3 since you're getting it 'free' so I guess it's slightly more of a savings still at 8 months.
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
get pass, cancel preorder?



Keep in mind, mathematically if you stay subbed to wow for 8 of the 12 months it's still a good proposition (free mount if nothing else, and break even cost). also no tax on D3 since you're getting it 'free' so I guess it's slightly more of a savings still at 8 months.

Main reason is I'm not sure if I'll stick around for a year otherwise I would get it. Of course with that said I am enjoying the game all over again and want to lvl up some alts once my rogue starts bringing in money from sources besides dailies or LFD/LFR.
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
Don't look at it as a year.

Diabo 3 is worth 4 months. let's pretend the beta and mount are worth another 2 months.

So, if you only play for the next 6 months, or any 6 months, it's not a loss of money.
 
I wonder if the RMAH takes off, they'll consider doing a PLEX-like system for WoW. I mean, it makes sense, as Blizzard would still be getting paid the same amount of money, even if some people ended up playing for free.

It would upset the economy, at least for a time, but the WoW economy has never been truly balanced anyway. You may run into complications with WoW being split among servers though, compared to EVE's single shard.
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
Don't look at it as a year.

Diabo 3 is worth 4 months. let's pretend the beta and mount are worth another 2 months.

So, if you only play for the next 6 months, or any 6 months, it's not a loss of money.

Well I do plan on playing through at least till Mists so maybe it will be worth it.
 

nicoga3000

Saint Nic
I have to ask...

I quit WoW like a year ago, but I saw Ulduar pop up again. It was, by far, my favorite raid EVER. Everything about it just felt "right". But to all of you WoW vets (I started in BC), what makes Ulduar so good? What did Blizzard do so right now that they haven't been able to replicate since?
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
Well think I may go for the pass since I'm willing to pay the $25 to race change my 80 gnome DK and $10 to change my 74 human paladins name. I didn't lvl either but may as well make use of the toons since I have my account back.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Karma *New* - Reduces all spell damage taken by 90% and clears all magical effects on you, reversing them back to their original caster if within 40 yards. Lasts for 6 sec. 1 Chi. Instant. 1.5 min cooldown

Heh
 
I have to ask...

I quit WoW like a year ago, but I saw Ulduar pop up again. It was, by far, my favorite raid EVER. Everything about it just felt "right". But to all of you WoW vets (I started in BC), what makes Ulduar so good? What did Blizzard do so right now that they haven't been able to replicate since?
I didn't do Ulduar when it was level appropriate, but from what I can tell, a huge amount of it has to do with two things above and beyond other raids. One is the atmosphere and journey through the place, with the build up to Yogg Saron. Aesthetics of the massive Titan structure you're exploring, the layout, the bosses themselves, all play into this.

The second was the first real implementation of hardmodes, done in a really creative way. In this, Ulduar is unique, there is no other raid that does it before or after like this.

Well, I guess you could say Sarth 3 drakes was the actual very first implementation of the idea, but it was a test run for Ulduar.
 
I didn't do Ulduar when it was level appropriate, but from what I can tell, a huge amount of it has to do with two things above and beyond other raids. One is the atmosphere and journey through the place, with the build up to Yogg Saron. Aesthetics of the massive Titan structure you're exploring, the layout, the bosses themselves, all play into this.

The second was the first real implementation of hardmodes, done in a really creative way. In this, Ulduar is unique, there is no other raid that does it before or after like this.

Well, I guess you could say Sarth 3 drakes was the actual very first implementation of the idea, but it was a test run for Ulduar.

Yes, primarily the atmosphere and the way the hard modes were implemented. The fights themselves were also balanced out very well, even not in hard mode, so there was a real sense of progression as weeks went by. Algalon, as a "secret" hard-mode only fight was great as well. There's more to gush about, but I'll leave it there for now.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Main reason is I'm not sure if I'll stick around for a year otherwise I would get it. Of course with that said I am enjoying the game all over again and want to lvl up some alts once my rogue starts bringing in money from sources besides dailies or LFD/LFR.

Well that year will run through a lot of Mists when the game is really interesting and not entirely just grinding raid bosses.
 

nicoga3000

Saint Nic
It's funny....After getting my Star Caller title, my interest in WoW started waning. And when it comes to lore and story, Algalon is the onlything in any MMO I've ever played that has really gotten me antsy and genuinely excited.. His purpose and his execution is fantastic - he's there because his analysis of the planet deems it necessary, nothing more.

And I agree - the hard mode implementation and the true sense of mystery and exploration are what drew me to Ulduar. Firefighter and XT <3

It's sad that Blizzard hasn't been able to recreate that feeling ever since.
 

Sciz

Member
Ulduar just did everything right. Everything.

Plus it was only current content for something like four months, so people didn't get sick and tired of running it.
 

TheYanger

Member
I'm durnk, so I dnunno how to like spoiler the old wyy wher you can click to expand, anyone know how/ this was my initial runtrhough almost finished vanilla, was taking loner than expected tos I didn't finish it but I fiugure I'll post it.


Hoyl shit edit, these are giant walls of text, in notepad theyw ere like 2 lines each, fml. I'll format later. they're not even very detailed :/
Molten Core
Atmosphere:**
Bosses:*
Trash:**
Difficulty:**

Molten Core...the zone that started it all. I almost feel like it's unfair to hold it up to modern standards, but it would be lame to just give it a pass despite them too. MC was a zone designed by Everquest Raiders, to impress Everquest raiders. There was no other standard of raiding to look at in those days. The atmosphere was 'correct' in that it communicated that you were in the molten core of the planet/mountain/whatever, but just being 'right' doesn't mean it wasn't drab as hell. Caves, lava. Red. The epic music rolling in when you walk into Rag's lair and the design of his room is basically the only saving grace of the zone from that perspective. In terms of boss creativity...Rag was very creative and showed how awesome scripted bosses could be, he gets the single star for the zone almost single-handedly. The other bosses? a total chore. Designed around no mods, THIS is what wow would be. Dispels, LoS abuse, simple 'move out of things' mechanics. A tiny bit of coordination on the last 3 pre-rag bosses. that was it. Much of the zone was changed drastically a few times because of how barebones and abusable the stuff was (golemagg into garr's room, Shazzrah being basically a tank and spank with 0 chance to wipe, etc). Trash gets a slightly higher star because the trash was actually SORT OF interesting! you had the annoying destroyers, the quick respawning hounds, the hound PACKS with the interesting simultaneous kill mechanic for the time, lava packs which were difficult and rewarded coordination, and even annihilators and lava spawns demonstrating abilities more complex than some of the bosses here (random secondary targets and things even). Difficulty was low. Rag was very hard because it required different kinds of coordination than EQ had taught us, everything else was beaten using simple tactics we'd learned years prior in other games. not much to say about it. No boss commanded more than a day or two of work besides Rag.


Onyxia's Lair
Atmosphere:***
Bosses:****
Trash:*
Difficulty:**

Onyxia was the other launch raid, the most complex fight in the game through probably BWL. This was the first fight that had strong individual accountability, even though it was tuned lightly enough that most guilds didn't fully rely on it back then. A good transitory boss from the old EQ style to the new WoW style of scripted encounter. The zone itself had the cool dragon mouth entrance, a short but memorable 'shape' and the actual room the fight was in was appropriate and visually somewhat interesting. The random mechanics of the fight were debated for ages and not fully revealed for YEARS, and the multiple phases were interesting at the time. Challenge was good, comparable to Ragnaros in many ways. Trash was dumb. I decided 0 isn't possible, but it's pretty bottom of the barrel here.

Blackwing Lair
Atmosphere:****
Bosses:****
Trash:*****
Difficulty:*****

BWL was what I consider the first 'real' raid in WoW. It started off with a bang with Razorgore, who was a VERY interesting fight mechanically, and was a total cockblock for many guilds, progression felt meaningful, and while the middle bosses were mechanically boring, they were tuned well enough to still be challenging and thoughtful. Razorgore, Vael, Chromaggus and Nef stand out as exceptional bosses. Chromaggus only due to his extremely unique mechanics that made it fun and random each week, the fact that he had 5 times as much hp as necessary brought it down, however. This zone first highlighted the horde/alliance imbalances where Salv was ridiculously powerful due to threat being a huge mechanic in so many fights. The trash stands out because this was the first zone with DIFFICULT trash. The trash was so integrated that it would save its status per-trash pack each reset, with groups of up to 14 or so mobs with 4 or 5 types in each group they were a handful and required thoughtful approaches more than brute force, a hallmark of the vanilla and BC era of raiding. Atmospherically it looked like a demented lab, it was very cool. A lot of the difficulty still came from slightly EQ-esque puzzles (line of sighting and things) but even the more gimmicky bosses were genuinely challenging as well.

Zul'Gurub
Atmosphere:*******
Bosses:*****
Trash:**
Difficulty:**

The first 20-man raid, ZG had a lot of atmosphere, from Hakkar's whispers to the yells of the bosses and the jungle-y environments, ZG was a hallmark of design. Bosses were about as complex as BWL, slightly more scripted but generally a bit more forgiving and perhaps less abilities. Standouts were Bloodlord Mandokir, hex Lord Jin'do, High Priestess Arlokk, and Hakkar. The trash was mostly forgettable, only remembered for things like spiders that got you drunk and mummies that hit really hard, no challenge in any of them. Hakkar's loss of abilities as you killed the other bosses could be seen as the first iteration of a 'hard mode' encounter, although it was never intended to be done with his extra abilities some of it was done later (though there was no reward for doing so). Difficulty was fair for the first 20 man, they were finding their feet still. It was easier than MC, but more complex. Loot was good for the effort. A good zone that most people enjoyed that I know.

Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj (AQ20)
Atmosphere:*****
Bosses:****
Trash:***
Difficulty:***

AQ20 was a very strong followup to ZG. the atmosphere was probably a bit worse, due to it being above-ground. The desert-y floor was a bit drab, and the topsides of Silithid nests had been seen plenty in Silithus and other zones. The high walls around the zone made it difficult to really get a sense that it was a 'temple' but all in all it was still a unique look and it felt 'right' albeit a bit recycled graphically. Bosses are hit or miss. Kurniaxx, and Ayamiss are really forgettable, Rajaxx himself is only notable as the first 'gauntlet' style encounter. Moam is midrange, he was memorable for being 'difficult' relatively, but he was basically just souped up AQ40 trash. Ossirian and Buru are standout bosses that everyone remembers though. In fact, the voice of Ossirian alone probably bumps the atmosphere score up a star. Buru with the 'no tank' phase 1 while people took turns kiting around really emphasized individual responsibility, and Ossirian was an EXTREMELY unique boss that required good teamwork, scouting, thinking on your feet as a group...it had everything. Consequently it was extremely difficult for many of the emerging 'casual' guilds that were only doing 20 man content. This was the first zone/fight that incorporated weather effects (which were newish) as well that I recall. Who can forget "SANDS OF THE DESERT, RISE AND BLOCK OUT THE SUN!" and then your screen being COVERED with a sandstorm? Anyway, most of my good memories of this zone come from solely two bosses, so I can't give it higher marks, but those two bosses were really great. Trash is better than Zul'gurub in that I can at least remember some of it (big packs of scarabs that do random debuffs. Slimes that eat people and heal from it, wasps that did a poison + catalyst combo that would kill people). Difficulty was fairly low from the perspective of this review still. None of the vanilla or BC 'low man' content was very challenging, that was just not the design.

Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (AQ40)
Atmosphere:*******
Bosses:*******
Trash:*******
Difficulty:*******

AQ40! Great zone. Atmospherically you really felt like you were taking the battle deep into the bowels of the earth to face this massive threat, the scale was HUGE, and the look was actually varied despite the repetetive tileset purely due to lighting and coloring. It got more ominous the farther in you went. C'thun whispering to you that your heart is going to explode sure sounds like atmosphere to me, and the cutscene when you first got to Twin Emps was intimidating and badass. Can't forget Skeram taunting you when you are pulling trash either. Damn it was good. I think this was the zone that was really seeing Blizz stretch their scripting muscles for both bosses and trash. Blizz had done half a dozen interesting fights over the previous zones, but AQ40 only has a couple 'simple' stinkers in it, and it has what I consider several of the top fights they've ever designed. Skeram had an interesting splitting mechanic, and just enough other random stuff thrown on to require the coordination to be there. You didn't just randomly luck into a kill, you had to have a plan, yet it was tuned to be easy as it was the first boss. Perfect. The bug trio was the first GENUINE hard mode boss they made, and the difference in difficulty between easy->medium->hard was staggering and really showed who the good guilds were. Sartura was simplistic but was the first true test of who could actually manage their surroundings and avoid shit. Don't let anything else fool you. THIS was the boss that broke the shitty players, was the first boss I can recall having a hard berserk as well (this zone in general is the first zone with berserks afaik), so that your 5 good players had trouble carrying. It wasn't tightly tuned enough, but it was good. Fankriss was far too easy but he had a lot going on. Viscidus...ambitious but broken and stupid. Huhuran went from a joke boss to a very difficult one almost overnight, nature resist farming was idiotic, but the shift from control to burn was new and 'interesting' if not well executed. Then you get to the last 3. Twin Emps blew my mind back in the day. Their perfect voicework, the awesomely huge models and room, and the mechanics that had so many moving parts. You had tons of people doing tons of individual roles on this fight, and it was LONG. Tuned so that a mistake was not a wipe, yet not a forgiving boss of bad strategies or play. The interactions between the tanks, the physical dps, the magical dps, the bugs, it all worked for me. Ouro was an extremely clever boss with a lot of mechanics that people didn't fully figure out for a while after it had been killed. But that was the beauty, you didn't need to know how his aggro worked to beat the boss, you just had to play better. things like that are great imo. Then C'thun, a truly great boss. his legacy was marred by being horribly broken, but the mechanics are still badass. The giant Zelda laser is SUPER memorable, being eaten, being blasted for 4,000,000 damage from someone getting too close...all awesome. Trash was interesting and more complex than bosses in many of the previous zones. Pre-emps trash was random and required solid and adaptable strats. The giants that shared abilities as they died rewarded quick target prioritization, and the pre-c'thun trash could probably be an essay on its own (Quad Mindslayer setups were complex and intense. Also tedious but that's another story). All in all, this was the first raid that really clicked to me. I loved all of the prior raids, but this was a glimpse into the future.
 
One thing memorable to me about Zul'Gurub, running it later and mostly solo, was how dangerous the packs of axe-wielding guys, mainly in front of the tiger boss, could be. The guys that spin around and continuously stun you - not sure of the name and I don't feel like digging at the moment. Definitely died a few times to them, even at 80. Sometimes it was overpulling, but you could just have a string of bad RNG and be stunned until dead.
 

Clipse

Member
wowscrnshot042512005124.jpg


Finished my daggers tonight! Not looking forward to putting Landslide on them..
 

TheYanger

Member
One thing memorable to me about Zul'Gurub, running it later and mostly solo, was how dangerous the packs of axe-wielding guys, mainly in front of the tiger boss, could be. The guys that spin around and continuously stun you - not sure of the name and I don't feel like digging at the moment. Definitely died a few times to them, even at 80. Sometimes it was overpulling, but you could just have a string of bad RNG and be stunned until dead.

Axethrowers :) that was their name. They could be deadly if you pulled more than 1 or 2 but otherwise pussy cats.
 
It's funny....After getting my Star Caller title, my interest in WoW started waning. And when it comes to lore and story, Algalon is the onlything in any MMO I've ever played that has really gotten me antsy and genuinely excited.. His purpose and his execution is fantastic - he's there because his analysis of the planet deems it necessary, nothing more.

I was amazed to find out that Algalon is voiced by Metzen. It upped my respect for his voice acting a bit, because I thought his Deathwing was abominable and typified a "every voice is Thrall" style. Then I found out he did the Terran marine too :O
 
Glad I got to play ulduar at its peak, infact that and when I played when MC and BWL were relevant were my favourite times.

When you go down the last tunnel in Ulduar for Genral we all ran around saying"holy shit!" then you dropped into the room and I was off tank and was like "I dont want to be here anymore" haha

I allways like Hodirs fight the most, no idea why.

What are those wings? I keep seeing warlocks with weird masks and wings shooting out when they jump around.
 

lordmrw

Member
The thing I miss the most about the larger 12-13 boss raids is that every class and spec had multiple weapon and armor upgrades so you weren't really screwed if a particular boss didn't drop say the axe you wanted. I'm at work right now and wowhead is blocked but just from memory alone Naxxramas has at least 9 or 10 one hand agility maces, axes,swords and fist weapons alone; I like that. As it is now you'd be lucky if your class has 2 possible upgrades and can be screwed for weeks or months due to RNG. I was forced to buy a Obsidium Cleaver for my DK after awhile because of this and not wanting to fall behind.
 

C.Dark.DN

Banned
The thing I miss the most about the larger 12-13 boss raids is that every class and spec had multiple weapon and armor upgrades so you weren't really screwed if a particular boss didn't drop say the axe you wanted. I'm at work right now and wowhead is blocked but just from memory alone Naxxramas has at least 9 or 10 one hand agility maces, axes,swords and fist weapons alone; I like that. As it is now you'd be lucky if your class has 2 possible upgrades and can be screwed for weeks or months due to RNG. I was forced to buy a Obsidium Cleaver for my DK after awhile because of this and not wanting to fall behind.

Fuck, I bought two Obsidium Cleavers :|

People quit before heroic, but I was about to call the first two heroic upgrades, lol.
 

Ultratech

Member
Did Battle for Mount Hyjal and BWL last night for transmogs. (Me and a Pally mostly)

Hyjal just got annoying with all the damn waves and shit. Bosses were sorta ok, and Archimonde wasn't too bad, though I imagine the fight was probably chaotic at the intended level. Wasn't fun getting Air Blasted every 10 seconds. Got Gronnstalker Helmet/Gloves (still a goofy-looking set).

As for BWL...fuck the Suppression Room. Had a bigger group for this one, though I was a bit pissed that BRS was capped to 5-man now. So I had to go and solo BWL attunement (quite easy, but annoying). Also had a Hunter with us who wanted to tame Chromaggus, but couldn't (or wouldn't) get aggro, so we had to wipe. That was annoying. He did eventually get him though. Next time, he's mine. Nefarian wasn't too bad, and I got Dragonstalker Breastplate, so it was good.

One thing memorable to me about Zul'Gurub, running it later and mostly solo, was how dangerous the packs of axe-wielding guys, mainly in front of the tiger boss, could be.

I remember doing one ZG run where we were fighting a Berserker and another one sneaked up on us. Some scary shit right there. And the bat dudes who would suicide and kill pretty much anyone by them...lol
 

Ramirez

Member
As for BWL...fuck the Suppression Room. Had a bigger group for this one, though I was a bit pissed that BRS was capped to 5-man now. So I had to go and solo BWL attunement (quite easy, but annoying). Also had a Hunter with us who wanted to tame Chromaggus, but couldn't (or wouldn't) get aggro, so we had to wipe. That was annoying. He did eventually get him though. Next time, he's mine. Nefarian wasn't too bad, and I got Dragonstalker Breastplate, so it was good.

I just recently hit 85, and I've done BWL a few times, I never had to do the attunement quest?
 

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
I was amazed to find out that Algalon is voiced by Metzen. It upped my respect for his voice acting a bit, because I thought his Deathwing was abominable and typified a "every voice is Thrall" style. Then I found out he did the Terran marine too :O

Pretty sure Blizzard said Metzen did not do Deathwing's voice.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Newest beta update is making crash every other second. Beta will be beta, I guess.

New Warrior changes are pretty cool, though. My biggest grip with the new Arms rotation was the lack of Rage that we had but the new stance changes totally fixed that.
 
Truthfully, I felt like they didn't give it enough time to shine. :(

Agreed. My guild focused on hard modes almost exclusively, to the point we didn't even kill Yogg on reg mode. We were just going through each hard mode, with a lot of time spent on Mimiron/Firefighter.

It was definitely the best raid to me as well. Great variety of bosses, and aesthetically the environment was varied enough to keep it fresh. That's something that I think is missing in a lot of the later WoW raids: everything looks the same. Dark dungeon, lava pits, or ice everywhere, etc. If WoW was Zelda, each part of Ulduar felt like you were in a different dungeon - whereas BWL, ICC etc felt like being stuck in a fire dungeon, or an ice dungeon, etc. And I really love all the ice dungeons/raids and really liked ICC but yea.

I really miss hard modes, and the weekly quests you could do. Also Ulduar felt like you were truly participating in an epic event, not slogging through a big dungeon. I miss that. DS has a somewhat similar feel, but so much of the environments are recycled that it's hard to be awed by it
 

Ultratech

Member
I just recently hit 85, and I've done BWL a few times, I never had to do the attunement quest?

*shrug*

Wouldn't let me warp until I did it. My other party members went through UBRS for whatever unholy reason. (At 85, attunement is crazy easy. I fought 3 bosses minimum and that's it.)

Needless to say, by the time I finished and rejoined, they downed the first two bosses without me.
 
There's a new DK ability added this patch, though it's NYI. The current phrasing makes it seem as though it works similarly to the old Ardent Defender or Cauterize. Which could be super nice if it's passive.
 

daedalius

Member
Went ahead and signed my wife up for the season pass to get D3, now if we'd only both get into the Pandas beta...

Still haven't gotten my invite :sadface:

I also absolutely loved Ulduar, best raid in quite a while.
 

Weenerz

Banned
Didn't realize that the first part of the legendary dagger quest chain required 10k gold, whoops. Guess I'll have to go farm to recoop the loss.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There's a new DK ability added this patch, though it's NYI. The current phrasing makes it seem as though it works similarly to the old Ardent Defender or Cauterize. Which could be super nice if it's passive.

Remorseless Winter and Desecrated Ground also no longer do any damage so they're now totally PvP abilities.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I gave a shot on killing Kael'thas in the Eye without resorting to any "run to the end of the dungeon" tricks. It worked, but it was pretty hairy fighting the Advisors without dying. I could easily see myself getting killed if I hadn't been lucky.
 

Measley

Junior Member
How is the Monk class shaping up? I'm thinking of making the class my new main, but reports about how they play are pretty scattered. Anyone here in the beta willing to give a basic rundown of the three specs?
 

markot

Banned
Ah, DK pvp set looks soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Awesome, even on a human!

pvpdeathknight.jpg
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
How is the Monk class shaping up? I'm thinking of making the class my new main, but reports about how they play are pretty scattered. Anyone here in the beta willing to give a basic rundown of the three specs?

They aren't really complete yet. Mistwalker as far as I can tell is just spamming jab to get high enough to use Tiger Palm or Blackout Kick and keeping up Rising Sun Kick's debuff.
 

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Wow, that actually looks good.
 
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