Grats. Its no root pants though.Fucking
finally
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World of Warcraft |OT9| People still play this? Isn't it from 2004
- Thread starter ampere
- Start date
NumberThree
Member
Yeah! I got that a few weeks ago, right when they nerfed the Feral Spirit boots that I got as my first legendary.
I'm ele so its not that amazing for me atm but it soundsl ike it's going to be one of the stronger legendaries in 7.1.5 with our st buffs
NumberThree
Member
Yeah. It's crazy for Enhancement, best secondary stats and basically constant ~6% damage increase. Ele doesn't really use anything with frost damage, right?
Nope. Even with frost shock in your rotation it's a net DPS loss than just using your normal rotation. People on forums also saying Icefury with it was still a dps loss.
But it's still a 4% damage bonus.
Icefury is a funny talent. It doesn't get along with any of the other cooldowns that Ele has, so you pretty much save it for transition phases where you know you'll have to move. But Icefury itself has a cast time, so you have to know a GCD ahead when that's going to happen or you get left behind, and there are a lot of encounters in the current tier that are a test of reaction time, so that doesn't really fly.
that's still weird to me because we've never had a problem resetting. And we had to do it a lot thanks to bugs etc. We have done it before reaching Curator as well, like the time our cat druid got teleported into the floor.
We have the run 100% down now though. We even found a big shortcut we could use (between Maiden and Moroes) that we don't bother risking because we already kill curator with 4-5 minutes left. It helps that our paladin got his cloak a few days ago and now does absolutely stupid amounts of damage.
Nightbane was funny because we got started faster than usual and forgot that bloodlust wasn't back up yet...everybody died in phase 3 but me, and then I soloed the last 10%. Bring on the Blood buffs because I clearly need them.
Also read through that Exorsus post on legendaries - the 4 soft cap is very interesting to me and lines up with what I've seen myself. Our very active players (nonstop mythic+ on top of raiding) are at this alleged 'cap' and nobody is above it. Really sucks if it's true in my case because I play multiple specs and got one for a spec I no longer use (Unholy). If it's not even possible for me to get (for example) the Frost bracers until they decide to change the soft cap, that's pretty messed up. They should at least be a little more open about it.
ToyMachine228
Member
So if you bought everything up through say Cataclysm, you already have Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor on your account when you reactivate?
cartographer
Member
Correct
Acidote
Member
I looted that one last night. Akainu's Absolute Justice. Then I checked how important was lava lash to my last Ursoc MM kill:
The buff to lava lash better be damn good or it will go to a bank slot just like Sephuz's Secret because proper secondary stats will give me more damage.
Napalm_Frank
Member
The lure prices have crashed like crazy tho.
Do you mean Artifact Knowledge? I kind-of agree, with the caveat that the scaling would need to be very different if it did use AK.
Getting all the golden traits is perfectly doable in an afternoon. Going for the hidden pools lures (Ghostly Queenfish and Oodelfjisk) seemed to be the most efficient.
Getting all the traits though? Nah...
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Legendary system is a total clusterfuck. WoW is not Hearthstone.
Moff
Member
I think the legendary system is great and it's the #1 reason why I played Legion more than all the other expansions since burning crusade together. I still do world quests, emmissary quests, I still do normal EN, I do as many keystone dungeons as possible with as many chests as possible and try to get them as high as I can for the weekly chest. That's many many hours every week. If we did not have the random legendary system I would log in every week for Heroic Raid progress and that's it. I'd say I play the game about 10 to 20x more because of the legendary system.
I actually like the idea of always having that tiny chance for a cool drop no matter what stupid nonsense I'm dragged into. They could refine it though, some kind of token or exchange system would be nice. Maybe a long questline that let you choose a single one you wanted.
and I've never been in a guild that would do that. I wouldn't want to be in one. Even though I'm the guy with crazy gear and tons of legendaries in my guild and others get priority over me because they've put more time and dedication in. The way it should be.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I sure want to go to the old system where it takes 3 months to get a legendary and only one person in a guild can get it at a time~
Haven't you heard? Legendaries are the new purples.
Ahh i feel nostalgic. It's like the time where "purples are the new blues" was often quoted.
I doubt any /many have, but yes it matters. It feels awful to perform worse than you could due to something beyond your control. It gives a strawman to blame for bad players as well. For example, I can get basically the top parse on every boss in mythic, but not quite. If I had any legendary that added a single point of dps could I do it? Guess we'll never know.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
I mean there's clearly mixed feelings about the system.
I'm not sure where I stand.
I kinda like the randomness aspect and the fact that you can get them from almost anything, but the power gains by some are definitely too great that it makes it so the worst ones feel terrible to get.
That's more of a problem with legendary design than system design though. Should they be unable to design all legendaries to be merely utility, then the best solution would be to include something that lets you target and work towards a specific legendary over time, as previous legendaries worked. Something like that.
I'm not sure where I stand.
I kinda like the randomness aspect and the fact that you can get them from almost anything, but the power gains by some are definitely too great that it makes it so the worst ones feel terrible to get.
That's more of a problem with legendary design than system design though. Should they be unable to design all legendaries to be merely utility, then the best solution would be to include something that lets you target and work towards a specific legendary over time, as previous legendaries worked. Something like that.
Moff
Member
that's what I thought about as well
or just increase the chance, they are limited anyway
who cares if you have 2 or 8 if you just can wear 2
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
If my two were Prydaz and Sephuz I sure as shit would care. The idea that you can randomly get this ultra rare and powerful item or you can get this ultra rare piece of shit thats only good in a handful of specs and you have no control over it is baffling
Lanrutcon
Member
I don't see how Blizzard could not have anticipated people's reaction to the legendary system. That's what gets me. Someone over at the Blizzard offices thought it was great and the fans would love it. It does not take any kind of special logic, skill or experience to see the system has gigantic flaws from a mile away. Yet here we are, post implementation in a retail product.
Or I'm missing something.
Or I'm missing something.
Moff
Member
sure, which is why I think they could raise the chance to get them, if anyone can only wear 2 of them it doesn't matter, that's what I meant with "who cares"
I still think it's a good system to motivate both single and group endgame content
BreezyLimbo
Banned
If anything
They should make the generic legendaries for everyone(IE Sephuz or Prydaz) drop off PVP only. Or something.
That was always a part of their philosophy in Diablo though, that you could get generic Legendaries.
They should make the generic legendaries for everyone(IE Sephuz or Prydaz) drop off PVP only. Or something.
That was always a part of their philosophy in Diablo though, that you could get generic Legendaries.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Even without the neutral legendaries some still swing rapidly in usefulness. As a Warlock I have an equal chance to get -
Pants that let me use Demonic Gateway twice before the cooldown
Bracers that increase me and my demons damage by 30% for 25 seconds after Infernal or Doomguard are summoned
One is clearly better then the other.
Pants that let me use Demonic Gateway twice before the cooldown
Bracers that increase me and my demons damage by 30% for 25 seconds after Infernal or Doomguard are summoned
One is clearly better then the other.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
They should implement a shard system. Exchange program or something. That I agree with.
They are just ignorant most of the time. People will give them acutal intellectual feedback during alpha and beta, and nothing changes. They are super proud of the diablofacation of WoW, and I dont buy for a second the soft cap was removed last week. Not when exorsus just called them out on their bullshit.
The whole ap grind was such a huge oversight. Its like the devs forgot what genre of game they are making
I see it as misjudgment of the game itself. With games like Diablo it's "okay" if you don't get a super special rare drop. There's multiple avenues of advancement and the actual treadmill of progression is more important than doing it as quickly as possible. But for a game like WoW, especially in Legion, and considering how they kind of fubared stat weights, not getting a Legendary can set you back quite a bit and this wouldn't be as bad if you weren't expected to keep up with others in your playgroup or the wider community. Plus, there aren't really alternate gearing paths. It's like Hearthstone in those metas when every class has only one viable deck and you need specific Legendaries or else your win rate takes a dive.
The thing is if they want to keep the dps vs. utility legendaries dynamic, they need a targeting system so players can progress towards their favored/best dps legendaries.
Alternatively, like the exorsus post pointed out it would be pretty legit if all legendaries were just utility based mondo stat sticks. Might be some real choice there but then again the choice probably just shifts from best dps affix to best secondary stats. However, you know, the delta of best secondary stats legendary is probably 2-4% versus the 8-15% delta we have right now between having a dps leg and not having one.
To me, I like that legendaries are a thing but I absolutely hate how RNG bonanza they are right now and the power discrepancy. Sure 7.1.5 goes a way towards fixing this but it also sets a dangerous precedent: introduce OP carrot on stick ---> nerf OP carrot on stick months later. :/.
Alternatively, like the exorsus post pointed out it would be pretty legit if all legendaries were just utility based mondo stat sticks. Might be some real choice there but then again the choice probably just shifts from best dps affix to best secondary stats. However, you know, the delta of best secondary stats legendary is probably 2-4% versus the 8-15% delta we have right now between having a dps leg and not having one.
To me, I like that legendaries are a thing but I absolutely hate how RNG bonanza they are right now and the power discrepancy. Sure 7.1.5 goes a way towards fixing this but it also sets a dangerous precedent: introduce OP carrot on stick ---> nerf OP carrot on stick months later. :/.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Winrate of what, though?
If you raid with a guild, and they're not douchebags, they'll keep raiding with you even if you don't get a legendary and all of them do. If it's a hardcore guild that goes for Mythic, that's different. You're going to have to spend a good amount of time anyways gearing up to that level/progressing, that your chances of a legendary would naturally be better than a person who logged in once a week.
There is the issue of pugs, but those always had ridiculous requirements. "860+ for mythic Maw", "AoTC+850+ for normal EN".
The thing is people treat it as a competition. You're trying to get ahead of other people instead of playing for your own satisfaction. WoW was never a game where it was required that your goal to be that you get ahead of others. Yes, some people may like behind 30+ ilvl higher than others, but not everyone plays for just that.
Yeah, I wish we could fast forward to the part where they acknowledge how much of a shit stain this legendary system is on Legion. Just give me a vendor and some orange currency and most of the frustrations with the system will be solved.
cartographer
Member
They aren't going to fix the stat weight issue to the level they think they can with these little mini patches. They don't want to bring back reforging, OK, but they could make the legendary system a lot less shitty if you could choose the stats on your legendaries. That way you at least will always want to equip it, so the feeling where you get a bad legendary isn't compounded by not even being able to use the drop.
Long term - utility only for random drops. The power level of some of the non-utility legendaries really shouldn't be random.
It really does matter for some specs, like Unholy, where a specific legendary can be the difference between being a dumpster fire in your group or keeping up with everyone else.
Losing raid spots is a bit of a straw man. The consequences don't have to be that dire for the system to be completely borked. The guilds that play at a hyper cutting edge level are rotating people and classes like crazy anyway.
But it absolutely does force people out of specs they want to play, because fate would have it Blizzard's balancing resulted in their preferred spec needing to roll a 1/8 perfect legendary if they want to avoid feeling they are dragging everyone down.
Long term - utility only for random drops. The power level of some of the non-utility legendaries really shouldn't be random.
It really does matter for some specs, like Unholy, where a specific legendary can be the difference between being a dumpster fire in your group or keeping up with everyone else.
Losing raid spots is a bit of a straw man. The consequences don't have to be that dire for the system to be completely borked. The guilds that play at a hyper cutting edge level are rotating people and classes like crazy anyway.
But it absolutely does force people out of specs they want to play, because fate would have it Blizzard's balancing resulted in their preferred spec needing to roll a 1/8 perfect legendary if they want to avoid feeling they are dragging everyone down.
I mean the people who have a problem with the current legendary system are the people who treat it like a competition. I agree this isn't the only way to enjoy it but at the same time it's not an invalid way of enjoying it either. As an MMO, WoW needs to walk that fine line that let's everyone enjoy the game.
Currently, if you're not a competitive PvEer, it's a nice bonus. If you're a competitive PvEer, it's a source of frustration and anxiety. Contrast that with an expac without legendaries. No one is excited for something that doesn't exist, but no one is let down either. Now, I can't speak to the precise ratios here but I feel like Legendaries have been zero sum, if not negative sum. For every person who's really happy they got their BiS, there's someone else who's unhappy they've yet to see a single Legendary. Or when they do, it's Prydaz. Or sometimes, it was on an offspec/alt.
I was in the "don't care about leggos" camp until the game started showering me in leggos. It's a nice feeling being able to pick and choose which ones to use, and I really think it would've been for the best if everyone could be in my spot, even if it makes me feel less special. Of course, this is the kind of thing that lead to "fuck all these welfare epix muh hardcore PvE game!" so I don't really know where to draw the line, but it's evident to me that they've overshot it.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
By that logic titanforged bis is just as bad, but no one bitches about that.
It's just a lot of whining over something that has to be rare because otherwise everyone would be the same.
If you think a few ilevels on one piece of gear is REMOTELY the same thing you're delusional. Legendaries can alter your rotation in favorable ways, talents, my best two legendaries would give me more dps than 15 ilevels on my entire character sheet. By a lot.
NOBODY GETS EXCITED TO SEE PRYDAZ OR SEPHUZ. period. It benefits nobody to have those in the game while actual good legendaries also exist. You have to go one way or the other with the design. There will always be a best and worst, but 20% more dps vs literally does nothing is not an acceptable gulf for single item rng.
People get pretty salty in this thread about Titanforging as well, and it's why a vocal segment clamors for reforging.
It's important to keep in mind that it isn't all or nothing. They could've done Legendaries, but no Titanforging. They could've done Titanforging, but no Legendaries. People would probably complain either way but in the grand scheme of things they might be less pissed than they they are now. Also, Titanforges tend to be more normalized because you get to see every "roll" you make for a Titanforge. Or rather, every piece of gear is a potential Titanforge, and that redundancy helps with taking the sting out of it. If you could roll for a Legendary as often as you could roll for Titanforge, and they made this clear and upfront, or if Legendary was just a roll that went beyond Titanforge, maybe people would be less upset.
Random stats on wod gear was just as bad.