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World of Warcraft |OT9| People still play this? Isn't it from 2004

v1perz53

Member
Yeah, its sad that they've been so set against deterministic rewards despite the overwhelming feedback that says the whole thing feels like shit. Its still early enough in the expansion for them to turn it around and it does sound like they will try something in 7.2, but I know plenty of people like you who just got frustrated and gave up, and Im not expecting them to come back.

I get the complaints about the randomness for sure, but I'm fairly convinced that if they removed the randomness people would complain about lack of content instead, since the randomness vastly increases the amount of content a player can do and still have a chance at rewards. Or if they went fully extreme with the systems, people would complain that they "have" to do content non stop.

For example, take the logical extreme opposite of what we have now. Everything you do gives you currency, harder content gives more. You use that currency to buy gear and legendaries. If there is no cap on how much you can earn, people rage that they "have" to run content non stop until they get their BiS legendaries and best gear, then suddenly they complain that there is nothing to do on their main and they have no reason to log in for raids, and raid rosters start to lose members. This system is much less random, but I don't think it is better in any way at all.

Now lets take a middle ground, everything is the same but remove WF/TF completely, and you earn currency from activities that lets you buy legendaries. Again, people complain that they have to run content non stop until they get their BiS legendaries, but that isn't as big a deal here. The big problem is that someone who raided the previous tier will have easily gotten their full BiS from raiding. Then, when the next tier hits, they log in for raids and nothing else, (because without WF/TF none of the Mythic+ rewards are an upgrade except for the weekly chest) complaining that there is no content to do besides raiding. Maybe that patch introduces a new legendary to grind out, which they do a lot of content to get, then go back to only logging in for raids. They get their BiS from raids and suddenly stop logging in because there is no content that can give them anything, and they complain about lack of content. Is this system better? Maybe, there can actually be an argument here, but it definitely still has problems.

As much as WF/TF is annoying, I know the struggles of leading a moderately top tier guild (my guild killed heroic LK pretty early on back in WotLK), where when people are "finished" gearing up they start to disappear. Many people dislike the WF/TF system, but my personal experience is that burnout from randomness causes less turnover than quitting from having nothing to do and no way to progress. Was the same thing in PvP, you could buy all your gear as you got points. I had a group of ~6 throughout WoD that I did arenas with and the trend was always the same, everyone logged in every week while farming enough conq for weapons, then started logging in less and less after getting weapons, and most stopped logging in at all after finishing that season's set. Only to start back up again next PvP season.


To be clear: Mostly just playing devil's advocate, there is definitely too much randomness in Legion. Biggest offender is the legendary system, something HAS to be done, it is FAR too random and FAR too punishing. But I think some inherent low levels of randomness aren't bad, and I think WF/TF are fine, if not healthy for the game. But overall even that could benefit from a little de-randomizing, without going fully deterministic.
 
Scratch what I posted earlier...



Just buy the mount, even if it's an Elekk. The utility of being able to move through content faster with a mount supersedes the vanity aspect of having to use a faction mount when you're first starting out. There's no point in hamstringing yourself over such a superficial thing and grinding out a vanilla faction rep to exalted for another equally ghetto looking faction mount. Besides, if you stick with the game for long enough, you'll be farming and earning many other mounts that look so much better than what you can buy from vanilla faction vendors.

If it mattrers THAT much, just play a bit of Hearthstone and unlock the Hearthsteed...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmIawMCjDb0

It takes like no time. I don't even like or play Hearthstone and was able to earn this in no time flat.
I've pretty much started doing all this today. Bought my ugly purple elephant and have been playing hearthstone for an hour now and I'm actually having fun, I'll probably have the hearthsteed in like an hour or two. Nice to know that much cooler mounts aren't hard to come by later on. Though I've kind of hit a wall on what content I'm supposed to be doing. I could just level to 40 through dungeons but don't wanna go too far so I don't super out level my partner.
 

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Goddamnit Blizzard :lol

BRgCpKo.png
 

Lomax

Member
It's definitely a fine line to walk. Imagine if the bad luck protection didn't exist, there would be people with ten and others with none. But like has been said ad nauseum, the problem is less the randomness of getting one and more that some suck and some are amazing. The buffs helped a lot, the boots change on my demo lock meant everything, but still, some sort of trading or something would have helped a ton.

That said, there does have to be a carrot and I guarantee blizzard is seeing more dungeons run by a wider cross section of players now than ever before, so from an engagement perspective it has to be considered a huge win. But the question is how much longer people will tolerate that. The next few months are going to be very telling, and in the end 7.3 is going to define people's opinion of the entire expansion.
 

Fjordson

Member
Yeah, its sad that they've been so set against deterministic rewards despite the overwhelming feedback that says the whole thing feels like shit. Its still early enough in the expansion for them to turn it around and it does sound like they will try something in 7.2, but I know plenty of people like you who just got frustrated and gave up, and Im not expecting them to come back.
Agreed.

Stuff like the random ass legendary system is just unbelievably bad. I like Legion a lot on the whole and I'm mostly casual when it comes to raiding so for me personally it's not a huge issue, but I can't imagine how frustrating it must be for people in high end guilds to fall behind because of all the ridiculous RNG in this expansion. Feels like they went way overboard with it.
 
My problem right now is that there's a single legendary for my spec that is worth about 80-100k DPS. All other legendaries are mostly irrelevant, or not nearly as strong. Functionally it's worth about as much as artifact levels 36 to 54 all by itself.

I don't have this specific legendary, thus I am essentially crippled when it comes to raid content. If I don't get the ring (or at least the shoulders which have some interesting possibilities) as my next legendary, I pretty much may as well switch mains, or hang it up altogether at least until 7.2 when this bullshit potentially gets fixed.

It's that infuriating.
 

v1perz53

Member
My problem right now is that there's a single legendary for my spec that is worth about 80-100k DPS. All other legendaries are mostly irrelevant, or not nearly as strong. Functionally it's worth about as much as artifact levels 36 to 54 all by itself.

I don't have this specific legendary, thus I am essentially crippled when it comes to raid content. If I don't get the ring (or at least the shoulders which have some interesting possibilities) as my next legendary, I pretty much may as well switch mains, or hang it up altogether at least until 7.2 when this bullshit potentially gets fixed.

It's that infuriating.

This is far and away the worst thing about the legendary system. If things like these didn't exist, a LOT more of the randomness would be forgivable, but things like this are simply unacceptable. And to think it could've been almost completely solved with something as simple as a system that let you melt down two legendaries and pick the one you wanted if you did. Still would've been stupid that it existed, but how they didn't even slightly think ahead and implement a way around it is absurd.
 
Yeah, its sad that they've been so set against deterministic rewards despite the overwhelming feedback that says the whole thing feels like shit. Its still early enough in the expansion for them to turn it around and it does sound like they will try something in 7.2, but I know plenty of people like you who just got frustrated and gave up, and Im not expecting them to come back.

If they made a "work towards a specific legendary" quest that you could do..say...once a month(not tied to your drop rates for legendary) itd be great. Like, "feed this magic pot 10 epics of that slot that are atleast x ilvl to get that legendary."

I woyld fucking dig a system like that.

Goddamnit Blizzard :lol

BRgCpKo.png

Damn it.
 

erawsd

Member
I get the complaints about the randomness for sure, but I'm fairly convinced that if they removed the randomness people would complain about lack of content instead, since the randomness vastly increases the amount of content a player can do and still have a chance at rewards. Or if they went fully extreme with the systems, people would complain that they "have" to do content non stop.

For example, take the logical extreme opposite of what we have now. Everything you do gives you currency, harder content gives more. You use that currency to buy gear and legendaries. If there is no cap on how much you can earn, people rage that they "have" to run content non stop until they get their BiS legendaries and best gear, then suddenly they complain that there is nothing to do on their main and they have no reason to log in for raids, and raid rosters start to lose members. This system is much less random, but I don't think it is better in any way at all.

Now lets take a middle ground, everything is the same but remove WF/TF completely, and you earn currency from activities that lets you buy legendaries. Again, people complain that they have to run content non stop until they get their BiS legendaries, but that isn't as big a deal here. The big problem is that someone who raided the previous tier will have easily gotten their full BiS from raiding. Then, when the next tier hits, they log in for raids and nothing else, (because without WF/TF none of the Mythic+ rewards are an upgrade except for the weekly chest) complaining that there is no content to do besides raiding. Maybe that patch introduces a new legendary to grind out, which they do a lot of content to get, then go back to only logging in for raids. They get their BiS from raids and suddenly stop logging in because there is no content that can give them anything, and they complain about lack of content. Is this system better? Maybe, there can actually be an argument here, but it definitely still has problems.

As much as WF/TF is annoying, I know the struggles of leading a moderately top tier guild (my guild killed heroic LK pretty early on back in WotLK), where when people are "finished" gearing up they start to disappear. Many people dislike the WF/TF system, but my personal experience is that burnout from randomness causes less turnover than quitting from having nothing to do and no way to progress. Was the same thing in PvP, you could buy all your gear as you got points. I had a group of ~6 throughout WoD that I did arenas with and the trend was always the same, everyone logged in every week while farming enough conq for weapons, then started logging in less and less after getting weapons, and most stopped logging in at all after finishing that season's set. Only to start back up again next PvP season.


To be clear: Mostly just playing devil's advocate, there is definitely too much randomness in Legion. Biggest offender is the legendary system, something HAS to be done, it is FAR too random and FAR too punishing. But I think some inherent low levels of randomness aren't bad, and I think WF/TF are fine, if not healthy for the game. But overall even that could benefit from a little de-randomizing, without going fully deterministic.

I dont think anyone is really asking for an entirely deterministic system though, we just dont want the current design that is entirely RNG based. Not only is it super frustrating to deal with but its outright breaking the game's design and balance. I think the WOTLK/CATA badge systems struck a proper balance between RNG and determinism. You were still reliant on RNG but there was a sort of "safety net" in place that meant you could eventually buy the item you wanted over time. If the legendary system allowed for a small chance of finding one anywhere while also having a currency that allowed you to determine when and which one you could get, then I doubt you'd see much whining about it.

The idea that this level of RNG is needed to make content relevant is also not one I buy. People are going to quit regardless -- and looking around my server and guild that is exactly what is happening right now. From a business standpoint, it seems to me that itd be better for those people to quit because they exhaust the content and accomplished their goals rather than have them quit frustrated and fed up with a loot system that feels unrewarding. The first group seems more likely to return when you have new content.
 

Fjordson

Member
My problem right now is that there's a single legendary for my spec that is worth about 80-100k DPS. All other legendaries are mostly irrelevant, or not nearly as strong. Functionally it's worth about as much as artifact levels 36 to 54 all by itself.

I don't have this specific legendary, thus I am essentially crippled when it comes to raid content. If I don't get the ring (or at least the shoulders which have some interesting possibilities) as my next legendary, I pretty much may as well switch mains, or hang it up altogether at least until 7.2 when this bullshit potentially gets fixed.

It's that infuriating.
Yeah, stuff like that is just shitty. The spectrum of effectiveness for legendaries should be much smaller so that people aren't straight up disappointed when they get some of them. A freaking legendary shouldn't be met with anger from the person who gets it, but that's the situation with certain ones lol.

Like overs have said, the randomness might not feel as bad if when you finally got that legendary after months and months of content it was guaranteed to be really good for your spec.

I've played almost every day since Legion's release and I have one legendary that does 0 for my DPS (healing legs). Feels bad man.
 
About shadow priest; what is leveling and doing content such as world quests like? Would it be easier to do it all as discipline? I'm only asking because I was reading elsewhere that shadow has poor survivability at low gear levels and doesn't feel good until you get high enough. Just curious as to what everyone's experience has been that's played it.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
My problem right now is that there's a single legendary for my spec that is worth about 80-100k DPS. All other legendaries are mostly irrelevant, or not nearly as strong. Functionally it's worth about as much as artifact levels 36 to 54 all by itself.

I don't have this specific legendary, thus I am essentially crippled when it comes to raid content. If I don't get the ring (or at least the shoulders which have some interesting possibilities) as my next legendary, I pretty much may as well switch mains, or hang it up altogether at least until 7.2 when this bullshit potentially gets fixed.

It's that infuriating.

Yep, if they insist on having a model with a wide variety of legendary types (AoE, survivability, utility, ST, etc...) they needed to implement some sort of targeting mechanic. Exchaning, Gambling (Kadala), long questline, etc...

Sure, if all the legendaries were dps legendaries balanced in a decent range or all the legendaries were utility then complete randomness with BPL would have been fine (though still not ideal imo).

I really just don't understand why they implemented a Kadala on beta and then scrapped it. I'd truly like to know their reasons behind that, because it's just completely irrational to me. You still deliver on your vision of RNG power items that excite players when they drop, but at the same time you allow players to feel like they can also work towards a specific one they want. Best of both worlds. Taking away the latter doesn't really add anything to the former, except frustration.
 
I barely find time to do anything today, so had to stop raising with my casual guild, I'm playing too late at night to find a regular group of people to play with (which I'm alright with tbh) and don't have the gear level to get into random mythic+ groups above, say, +5. So with that in mind, getting new gear is a real slog at the moment and I'm stuck hovering around 876 equipped 878 best.

So I managed to get the 4 mythic weekly quest done and was gutted when it turned out to be a relic in my cache... until I looked at it. (Sorry for the phone pic rather than screenshot).

g8QVAR7.jpg


Yeah, I can live with that. I'm really struggling to get Serpent of Old beaten in the Brawler's Guild so hopefully that'll help a bit. BM single target is so broken at the moment.

About shadow priest; what is leveling and doing content such as world quests like? Would it be easier to do it all as discipline? I'm only asking because I was reading elsewhere that shadow has poor survivability at low gear levels and doesn't feel good until you get high enough. Just curious as to what everyone's experience has been that's played it.

No idea about shadow but as discipline I survived insane stuff that was killing people in tank spec while levelling. It takes longer to kill things but you will never, ever die.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
So you can buy blizzard games with WoW gold?
 

Acidote

Member
So... I guess token prices are going to skyrocket now with people spending them on Hearthstone packs and Overwatch crates. That will probably put an end to my 10+ years relationship with WoW since I refuse to pay the subscription with real money anymore.
 

Magnus

Member
Need advice re: Class Hall missions. I never bothered levelling more than five of my champions once I decided which ones I wanted to prioritize. The other three are like, 109, and 110s that are still ilevel 760 or something.

Is this gimping the missions/rewards I'm seeing populated?

This came up in the WoW Token news thread I just started. I'm going to kick myself if I've been shooting myself in the foot all these months on mission rewards.

For example, the max gold mission reward I see on my main is like 670g with a bonus of about 650g as well. Meanwhile, someone just shared with me that they see bonus rewards in excess of 1k.
 
Need advice re: Class Hall missions. I never bothered levelling more than five of my champions once I decided which ones I wanted to prioritize. The other three are like, 109, and 110s that are still ilevel 760 or something.

Is this gimping the missions/rewards I'm seeing populated?

This came up in the WoW Token news thread I just started. I'm going to kick myself if I've been shooting myself in the foot all these months on mission rewards.

For example, the max gold mission reward I see on my main is like 670g with a bonus of about 650g as well. Meanwhile, someone just shared with me that they see bonus rewards in excess of 1k.
I mean all of my champions are leveled to 110 but only 5 of them are max item level. I've been able to get both the intended mission gold reward plus the 1,500 gold bonus every time with a 50% bonus roll. Luck plays into that a lot.

It's not as great as Garrison missions were in terms of gold payout but it beats seeing your ships explode during a high payout gold mission.

Of course right as I post this I fail two gold mission bonus rolls.
 

Magnus

Member
I mean all of my champions are leveled to 110 but only 5 of them are max item level. I've been able to get both the intended mission gold reward plus the 1,500 gold bonus every time with a 50% bonus roll. Luck plays into that a lot.

I might need to get my stragglers up to 110 then. I've let them rot since like, September. Fuck, I'm a dummy. But also, there's no indication anywhere in the game about how that system works. =/
 

Sölf

Member
Well, we are 8/10 normal and now we also are 3/10 heroic. When you can't ignore all the stuff the first few bosses are actually quite fun.
 
Sigh, I guess I want that mount.

Who wants to play HotS with someone who's never played it before? (Albeit 1200+ hours of Dota 2 back in the day)

Dunno when I'll have time to grind it out though. Promotion is only on for like a month.
 

Lomax

Member
I might need to get my stragglers up to 110 then. I've let them rot since like, September. Fuck, I'm a dummy. But also, there's no indication anywhere in the game about how that system works. =/

So I have a character that got all 8 to 850 and other characters that didn't. The only difference I notice is the one with 8 characters at 850 doesn't get hardly any ilvl equipment increase missions, whereas the others still do (including my character with an inactive follower at level 109). So that character seems to get more rare equipment missions instead. But in terms of gold/ap missions once your main 5 are all 850 it seems to be the same.
 

Tarazet

Member
About shadow priest; what is leveling and doing content such as world quests like? Would it be easier to do it all as discipline? I'm only asking because I was reading elsewhere that shadow has poor survivability at low gear levels and doesn't feel good until you get high enough. Just curious as to what everyone's experience has been that's played it.

Every caster I've played has been like that. Heck, Elemental still doesn't feel survivable at 880.

I leveled 100% as Shadow and it was okay. Just don't try to kite, because that's not really how you kill stuff.
 

v1perz53

Member
Need advice re: Class Hall missions. I never bothered levelling more than five of my champions once I decided which ones I wanted to prioritize. The other three are like, 109, and 110s that are still ilevel 760 or something.

Is this gimping the missions/rewards I'm seeing populated?

This came up in the WoW Token news thread I just started. I'm going to kick myself if I've been shooting myself in the foot all these months on mission rewards.

For example, the max gold mission reward I see on my main is like 670g with a bonus of about 650g as well. Meanwhile, someone just shared with me that they see bonus rewards in excess of 1k.

Every gold mission I get has a 1500g bonus, so you probably have been screwing yourself. I've never had a gold mission in the past month that didn't have exactly 1500g bonus. All my followers are 110 and 850 ilvl, and I have Moroes as well, also 850. I levelled them up back when I was tired of getting missions for the ilvl tokens and I wanted to see if that affected everything. Also to note, my unused followers are still green/blue, none of them are epic, so I don't think that affects rewards.
 

Tacitus_

Member
Q: I purchased a WoW Token for gold a while back, but never redeemed it. Can I use that WoW Token to get Battle.net Balance now?
A: Yes, any previously purchased WoW Tokens that you haven’t yet redeemed for game time can now be redeemed for Battle.net Balance (in supported regions).

sdfdghbf

Should've bought earlier. Would've saved silly amounts of money.
 
So just messing around, checking out the new Artifact Traits again, and I saw something I didn't see the first time around. A few classes are getting Golden Traits that buff them and up to four others. The traits in question;


I bring this up because I'm curious if in a raid environment it just turns to four randos or the four others in your party. They want to move away from the latter, right? Mainly because I thought it was an intention to not have to worry about group compositions, but I don't know for sure 100%.

Another question as well, how many classes / specs have group wide effects or buffs? Only one I know of for sure is the one from Enhancement, Stormlash. Just curious what else is out there.
 

Corpekata

Banned
I'd imagine it's probably 4 nearest you.

Glad they are making the Blood DK artifact ability semi useful with that update. Feels a little basic/ bland currently.
 

Jag

Member
Live now?

Edit: prices already skyrocketing. Doubt we'll ever see 60k tokens again. Glad I'm paid up for a long while.

They are around 64k on US right now. Probably will jump up. I should probably resub and pick up a bunch. Said that when they were 35k too.
 
So just messing around, checking out the new Artifact Traits again, and I saw something I didn't see the first time around. A few classes are getting Golden Traits that buff them and up to four others. The traits in question;



I bring this up because I'm curious if in a raid environment it just turns to four randos or the four others in your party. They want to move away from the latter, right? Mainly because I thought it was an intention to not have to worry about group compositions, but I don't know for sure 100%.

Another question as well, how many classes / specs have group wide effects or buffs? Only one I know of for sure is the one from Enhancement, Stormlash. Just curious what else is out there.

For the mage buff, its the 4 people nearest to you. I dunno how big the radius is though.
 

Milennia

Member
It's really good for the non wanting to break tos players to have the option of bent balance.

assuming tokens hit 100k that's 150$ for blizzard products per 1m, which is about 150$ less than asking price of those that take the break tos route but much safer obv and accessible.

Good on them.
 
No idea about shadow but as discipline I survived insane stuff that was killing people in tank spec while levelling. It takes longer to kill things but you will never, ever die.

Every caster I've played has been like that. Heck, Elemental still doesn't feel survivable at 880.

I leveled 100% as Shadow and it was okay. Just don't try to kite, because that's not really how you kill stuff.

Sounds good either way, I suppose. I bought a boost over the weekend and am trying to decide on priest or rogue. I think I'll try out a priest trial and see how much I enjoy the rotations and if it's something I can see sticking with for a long period.
 

Magnus

Member
Huh, it just occurred to me that you can essentially buy levels for gold now, via the boost.

280k for a Level 100!

Man, I wish I had more gold. 400k and I suddenly feel poor again.
 
I've pretty much started doing all this today. Bought my ugly purple elephant and have been playing hearthstone for an hour now and I'm actually having fun, I'll probably have the hearthsteed in like an hour or two. Nice to know that much cooler mounts aren't hard to come by later on. Though I've kind of hit a wall on what content I'm supposed to be doing. I could just level to 40 through dungeons but don't wanna go too far so I don't super out level my partner.

Well if you're trying to keep pace with a leveling partner but have more time to play you can invest yourself in your professions. You're a warrior right? You could pick up Mining and Blacksmithing, although the low-level stuff is mainly useful for transmogs. Or you could just go double gather, and sell the mats on the Auction House. Dalaran is an active server so you should be able to move even low level mats for a decent price. Fishing schools will occasionally yield sealed trunks, the contents of which you can also sell on the AH. Archaeology can provide you with toys, pets, mounts and what would be pretty valuable vendor trash for someone just starting out.

Also the Darkmoon Faire is going on right now, entrance is at Stormwind but there are DMF reps in every city that will teleport you to the entrance for nothing. You can play the dailies there for prize tickets which you can use to buy heirlooms, toys, and transmogs.

Sigh, I guess I want that mount.

Who wants to play HotS with someone who's never played it before? (Albeit 1200+ hours of Dota 2 back in the day)

Dunno when I'll have time to grind it out though. Promotion is only on for like a month.

Average match of HotS is 15-20 mins. It's super easy to play 15 games to unlock that.
 
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