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[Angry Grimace]

Bringing back all sorts of WotLK beta stuff with Camo/Spirit Link/Heroic Leap

Yup. Expect anything non-recycled to be pushed back to the Emerald Dream expansion. :lol

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

:lol :lol :lol

Reading the MMO-Champion responses to the hunter thread is glorious. I love hunter tears.

 

[Retro]

Wow, actually really happy with the hunter preview, I'm pumped. Seems like they're making the class a lot more interesting.

Yeah, I'm actually pretty impressed. I'm planning to roll a Goblin Hunter, so I was kind of interested in what the class got. Happy to say I'm not disappointed.... though I wish Trap Launcher was lower level... now all it needs to do is make that "FHUMMPHF" sound that grenade launchers make and I'll be happy :lol.

I like how a lot of their abilities seem to play with the new Focus mechanic; some shots give you focus instead of taking it away, etc. Sounds like you'll have to kind of get into a groove with your shots to keep your focus pumping.

Ah, since we're on a new page, I'll bump the Hunter Preview so people can see it. Apologies to those that already have.

With the upcoming World of Warcraft: Cataclysm many game elements will be changing, and each class will be receiving a number of tweaks. Here, we will explore the changes that are being made to the gun-wielding, pet-training hunter. The information you’re about to read is certainly not complete, and is only meant to act as a preview of some of the exciting new things to come. Without further ado, let’s take a look at the new hunter abilities!

New Hunter Abilities

Cobra Shot (level 81): A new shot that deals Nature damage instead of Physical damage. This ability will share a cooldown with Steady Shot. This will give hunters an alternative to Steady Shot on heavily-armored targets, and we will have talent incentives in the Beast Mastery tree to make this a signature shot.

Trap Launcher (level 83): When used, the next trap can be shot to a location within 40 yards. This provides the current Freezing Arrow treatment to all traps and, as a result, we will be removing the current ability Freezing Arrow. 1-minute cooldown. No global cooldown.

Camouflage (level 85): The hunter enters an obscured state that prevents him or her from taking ranged damage. The character would still be subject to melee or area-of-effect attacks, and dealing or taking damage will break the Camouflage effect. The hunter can move and set traps when under Camouflage, and will receive a damage bonus when attacking while under Camouflage (which will then break the effect).

Resource Mechanic Change
Here we come to the meat of the upcoming hunter changes.

Hunters will no longer use mana; instead the class will use Focus. Focus generates much like Energy, by building up. It will not be affected by Intellect at all. Haste will improve its generation. Hunters will generate roughly 6 Focus per second, slightly less than rogues' Energy generation rate of around 10 Energy per second. Below, we have listed some examples of how we intend Focus costs to operate:

Steady Shot/Cobra Shot: No cost. Generates 9 Focus per shot (or 12 per second instead of 6).
Arcane Shot/Chimera Shot /Explosive Shot: 45 Focus.
Aimed Shot/Multi-Shot: 60 Focus.
Concussive Shot/Tranquilizing Shot: 35 Focus.
Rapid Fire/Master’s Call/Disengage: 30 Focus.


Changes to Abilities and Mechanics
In addition to the resource change and new abilities listed above, we intend to make adjustments to some of the other abilities and mechanics you already know well. This list and the summary of talent changes below it are by no means comprehensive, but they should give you a good sense of what we’re going for with each spec.

-A major change coming for the hunter is the removal of ammunition. Guns, bows, and crossbows will now do damage without consuming ammunition at all. There will be no more ammo slot on the hunter’s character display. Any ammunition that a hunter has at the time of the change will become gray sellable items. Existing quivers will be converted into large bags -- though each hunter can only have one and non-hunters will not benefit from this change -- and we will not be making any additional quivers.

-Pet management will also change. Hunters will now have two types of attainable pets: active pets and stored pets. Hunters will be able to have up to three active pets (perhaps five for Beast Mastery specialized players) and will have the ability to switch among these pets any time they are out of combat, without going to town. They will also be able to have a large number of pets in storage at the stables. In order to swap a pet from active to passive, a hunter will still need to visit their local Stable Master. However, this should afford ample storage for the many Spirit Beasts wandering the lands of Azeroth.

- Additionally, hunters will now start with a race-appropriate pet at level 1 and will be able to tame a different pet at level 10. We are also changing many pet family abilities to provide important buffs and debuffs. The intention is to allow the hunter to be able to swap pets and fill a position if a certain role is missing from the group. The goal is to have all pets provide a damage increase that is very similar and no greater than any other pet. Some examples of the changes we are making to the pet families are listed below:

-Wind Serpents: Will provide a debuff that increases the amount of spell damage taken by an enemy (similar to a weaker version of the warlock ability Curse of Elements).

Ravagers: Will provide a debuff that will increase an enemy's Physical damage vulnerability (similar to a weaker version of the warrior ability Rampage).

Hyenas: Will provide bleed damage (similar to a weaker version of the druid ability Mangle).

-Stings and other periodic effects will now benefit from haste and critical strike ratings. Hasted damage-over-time abilities do not lose duration, but instead add additional damage ticks.

-Viper Sting will now restore 9 Focus every 3 seconds.

-We are reinforcing hunters as a ranged class. To this end, the class will now start with ranged abilities at level 1, and we will be removing some melee abilities, such as Mongoose Bite.


New Talents and Talent Changes

-Beast Mastery hunters will have a new talent called Careful Aim, which increases the damage of the next Steady Shot or Cobra Shot, but also increases the cast time of these abilities. The intention is to make the combination of spells into a decent damage opener, especially in conjunction with the new ability Camouflage.

-Beast Mastery hunters will also have talents that make Cobra Shot superior to Steady Shot, such as Longevity reducing the cast time of Cobra Shot to 1.5 seconds.

-Rapid Recuperation will cause Rapid Fire to give 20/40/60 Focus immediately and will cause Rapid Killing to generate 3 Focus per second.

-Efficiency will reduce the Focus cost of Chimera Shot, Aimed Shot, and Arcane Shot.

-Thrill of the Hunt grants Focus when you land a critical strike.

-Hunter vs. Wild increases the hunter’s Focus generation when his or her pet is snared, stunned, or rooted.


Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses

Beast Mastery
Ranged Damage
Haste
Pet Damage

Marksmanship
Ranged Damage
Armor Penetration
Double Shot

Survival
Ranged Damage
Ranged Critical Damage
Elemental Damage

Pet Damage: Many of the passive benefits to pet damage will no longer be available in the Beast Mastery talent tree. However, these will be provided through the new Mastery mechanic.

Double Shot: The hunter will have a chance to launch a free attack off of the global cooldown for 50% damage.

Elemental Damage: Hunter abilities such as traps, Black Arrow, and Explosive Shot will do elemental damage of the following types: Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature, and Shadow.

We hope you enjoyed this preview, and ask that you provide your initial thoughts and feedback on what was presented here. Please keep in mind that what you’ve just reviewed is a work in progress and as we move closer to the Cataclysm beta, you’ll see these planned changes as well as others continue to develop in response to feedback and testing.

 

[Askani]

Yeah, I don't get all the crying in the comments. Seems pretty interesting. And I like the idea of the multiple pets available with no cooldown and actually doing better buffs and debuffs in battle. And with trap launcher, it really sounds like the BM spec will be the utility spec and be able to do more things. I'm alright with less damage if I can bring more things to the party. Hopefully they make the pet abilities have really noticeable and useful effects in battle and not just an afterthought.

 

[Mr Nash]

Well, I hope they deep six Leap of Faith quickly. I can see no good coming from that. Just moron dps becoming more moronic because they can blame their standing in the fire on the priest for not yanking them out, forget whether the ability was on cooldown or not. I'd rather have some sort of "Mercy Kill" and be allowed to instantly kill stupid, friendly dps who can't get out of the fire so at least I don't have to deal with them anymore during an encounter.

 

[yacobod]

:lol :lol :lol

Reading the MMO-Champion responses to the hunter thread is glorious. I love hunter tears.

whats wrong with the hunter update in particular, i didnt see anything that bad in there

 

[Retro]

Hunter Clarifications.

Posting because they involve the new Camouflage mechanic which sounds like stealth but apparently isn't...

It is *not* stealth. Your enemies will never wonder where you are. We're trying to use the new Cataclysm water effect to put a shimmering PREDATORy visual on you. It's protection from ranged attacks and it gives you some combat bonuses, but it's not like Shadowmeld or rogue / druid stealth where players can't find you.

As most of you know, we tried Camo once before, but because it was true stealth it was very hard to balance, plus it felt like we were just handing out the same cool abilities to every class instead of coming with unique mechanics. Hunters were so overwhelmingly excited about the basic idea that we wanted to try it again, but not as stealth.

So basically, you have to be looking for a Hunter using it, but they're not actually invisible from a technical perspective. I'm sure nameplates will be hidden from view though, it seems stupid not to.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

Hunter changes are really good. Glad to see they're changing the starting experience for the class as well.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

whats wrong with the hunter update in particular, i didnt see anything that bad in there

Brilliant responses like:

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!1111 Angry *goies and cuts hes wrists*

Reroll inc, after 5 years. I don't like the change at all.

Additionally, hunters will now start with a race-appropriate pet at level 1 and will be able to tame a different pet at level 10 HuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuhHuh

most boring list of changes of all time....

Hardly any effort went into the new abilities at all. and once again....................99% aimed at pvp.

been same on all classes. face it, in blizz's eyes, pve is dead.

bring on Old Republic

Byebye hunter... gonna miss him after 5 yrs...

Oh well.. starwars mmo coming in a little while Smiley

Pisses me off hate the changes especially the pet at lvl 1 crap

 

[Retro]

^ The fuck is wrong with having a class-defining ability at level 1? Does it really make a difference in those first two hours it takes to hit level 10? Maybe those 10 levels will teach huntards how to use their damn pets a little better.

Hunters have always been the most emotional class (well, after Paladins :lol) when it comes to nerfs. They had a LONG time in the sun before the Shadow of the Nerfbat fell upon them and I think they've taken it way too personally. I see nothing but good changes there.

 

[FLEABttn]

Yeah, those hunter changes are fine. The crying is unwarranted.

 

[Freyjadour]

To be fair, hardly any of the detailed info on the Rogue preview was PvE related. Hard not to be disappointed when i've only ever enjoyed the occasional BG.

 

[VaLiancY]

I'm happy with the Hunter changes. Bring on the beta I say. Starting out with a pet is really nice for people starting a Hunter.

 

[Flib]

Quote from Blizzard staff

If you target a camo hunter or a rogue using Smoke Bomb, you will get an error message saying something like "Target obscured." You can see them and target them, but can't use your attacks. Imagine they are behind a pillar or something. You can try and get off an AE near them or you can move to melee.

Awesome

 

[Retro]

To be fair, hardly any of the detailed info on the Rogue preview was PvE related. Hard not to be disappointed when i've only ever enjoyed the occasional BG.

That seems to be the biggest complaint I've heard, and rather than being just a lot of whining I'm actually starting to notice it too. A LOT of the stuff previewed is PVP-oriented. However, I don't think this means PVE is dead (as people seem to be screaming), just that PVE is probably still in a state of chaos and they're not quite ready to dig into that.

Edit: Smoke bomb has uses in PVE for drawing casters closer to the tank. I know Warriors and Paladins have ranged silencing abilities, but being able to line-of-sight them on demand might make things easier. Plus, as a Paladin, Avenger's Shield also slows the casters down. If there's too much room, the effect wears off and they're still out of range and casting again.

That said... PVE couldn't hurt from a little influx of PVP. After all, when you get down to it, PVE is basically fighting the mechanics of the game rather than a monster. What kind of brilliant, evil enemy would ever focus his entire rage on the one dude attacking him who seems to never get hurt and always get healed, while ignoring the half-dozen guys stabbing him in the ass?

It'll never happen, but doing away with threat and aggro would make for a much more interesting experience than "Turn her head into the wall and mash threat buttons!". Enemies that, you know, think. Tanking would be a matter of getting between the enemy and the squishes and actually keeping it at bay.

We'll never know since Warhammer pussied out and made their collision detection act like pudding. That's probably good though, since apparently Mythic billed people multiple times for their subscriptions this month.

If you target a camo hunter or a rogue using Smoke Bomb, you will get an error message saying something like "Target obscured." You can see them and target them, but can't use your attacks. Imagine they are behind a pillar or something. You can try and get off an AE near them or you can move to melee.

Calling it now: Paladins get "Shining Armor" that makes them so bright you can't target them.:lol

 

[Freyjadour]

That seems to be the biggest complaint I've heard, and rather than being just a lot of whining I'm actually starting to notice it too. A LOT of the stuff previewed is PVP-oriented. However, I don't think this means PVE is dead (as people seem to be screaming), just that PVE is probably still in a state of chaos and they're not quite ready to dig into that.

That said... PVE couldn't hurt from a little influx of PVP. After all, when you get down to it, PVE is basically fighting the mechanics of the game rather than a monster. What kind of brilliant, evil enemy would ever focus his entire rage on the one dude attacking him who seems to never get hurt and always get healed, while ignoring the half-dozen guys stabbing him in the ass?

It'll never happen, but doing away with threat and aggro would make for a much more interesting experience than "Turn her head into the wall and mash threat buttons!". Enemies that, you know, think. Tanking would be a matter of getting between the enemy and the squishes and actually keeping it at bay.

We'll never know since Warhammer pussied out and made their collision detection act like pudding. That's probably good though, since apparently Mythic billed people multiple times for their subscriptions this month.



Calling it now: Paladins get "Shining Armor" that makes them so bright you can't target them.:lol

Yeah I gathered PvE changes are further out, but I think they might have done us all a favor and label this a PvP preview and save the few PvE things for later.

 

[Interfectum]

I've been playing a hunter since WoW launched and these changes look like garbage.

Camo sounds particularly bad because it encourages targets to get in melee range even more. I don't think I've ever needed help taking out ranged targets so this ability seems rather worthless.

 

[Flib]

Camo could be a good oh shit button on fights with heavy raid damage though.

 

[Macattk15]

To be fair, hardly any of the detailed info on the Rogue preview was PvE related. Hard not to be disappointed when i've only ever enjoyed the occasional BG.

I agree. I fucking hate WoW PvP so color me unimpressed with those rogue previews.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I agree. I fucking hate WoW PvP so color me unimpressed with those rogue previews.

Despite the attention they get from players, Rogue is the least popular class in WoW, even less so in PvE.

 

[Angry Grimace]

For the record, it doesn't matter WHAT they do with Paladins, the QQ will be legendary from all fronts...because they are Paladins. :lol :lol

 

[Interfectum]

i like the rogue changes... got a level 50 sitting around right now will probably pick him back up once i get my warlock to 80.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

For the record, it doesn't matter WHAT they do with Paladins, the QQ will be legendary from all fronts...because they are Paladins. :lol :lol

Except, you know, if they do what they did for shamans (who are supposed to QQ all the time).

 

[Interfectum]

:lol :lol :lol

Reading the MMO-Champion responses to the hunter thread is glorious. I love hunter tears.

I'm not sure why... Hunters haven't been relevant for almost all of wrath. Pally tears is what everyone should be looking forward to.

 

[Wrekt]

Give holy a decent group heal and I'll stay quiet. Beacon is nice but it doesn't quite cut it when I'm the lone healer and the entire group takes damage.

But then again they are pushing the whole "damage/heals will do less compared to the max hp of players" so maybe group heals will be less important. I just know Magisters Terrace and HoR heroics were a nightmare on appropriately geared Pallies while the other healers found them to be much easier thanks to their group healing.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

I'm not sure why... Hunters haven't been relevant for almost all of wrath. Pally tears is what everyone should be looking forward to.

Hunters haven't been relevant? What are you smoking? They are consistently one of the highest DPS classes behind rogues.

 

[notworksafe]

I'm not sure why... Hunters haven't been relevant for almost all of wrath. Pally tears is what everyone should be looking forward to.

Whoa, what?! Are you serious? Hunters have been top tier for almost all of Wrath (once the overpowered Paladin and Death Knight issues were resolved).

 

[Angry Grimace]

Except, you know, if they do what they did for shamans (who are supposed to QQ all the time).

No, what I mean is; if they make Paladins better, everyone else will QQ about that one time they got killed by a Paladin and how Paladin's are already overpowered. If they make Paladins worse, Paladins will QQ about that one time they couldn't kill an X (X = any other class) and they need Charge, Heroic Leap and Death Grip.

If they leave Paladins the same, everyone will QQ massively about both things above.

Whoa, what?! Are you serious? Hunters have been top tier for almost all of Wrath (once the overpowered Paladin and Death Knight issues were resolved).

For the most part, I haven't seen Hunters beating Rogues or Mages on anyone's meters consistently. It's not a big difference, even between "pures" and "hybrids."

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

No, what I mean is; if they make Paladins better, everyone else will QQ about that one time they got killed by a Paladin and how Paladin's are already overpowered. If they make Paladins worse, Paladins will QQ about that one time they couldn't kill an X (X = any other class) and they need Charge, Heroic Leap and Death Grip.

If they leave Paladins the same, everyone will QQ massively about both things above.

:lol

I usually disagree with you, but this is totally true.

Paladins need Charge though. And Healing Rain.

For the most part, I haven't seen Hunters beating Rogues or Mages on anyone's meters consistently. It's not a big difference, even between "pures" and "hybrids."

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/dps/

 

[notworksafe]

:lol

I usually disagree with you, but this is totally true.

Paladins need Charge though. And Healing Rain.

And Heroic Leap! Some Camo and Smoke Bombs would be nice too. How about a pet or something like that as well? Oh, and Heroism! That would be great, thanks.

 

[Angry Grimace]

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Icecrown_Citadel/dps/

I have no idea what this link is supposed to demonstrate.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

I have no idea what this link is supposed to demonstrate.

Worldwide top DPS parses per encounter.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Worldwide top DPS parses per encounter.

Which demonstrates...?

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

Which demonstrates...?

Moreso to the "Hunters are irrelevant" guy, but you said that you haven't seen hunters on meters much. Link shows that depending on fight, hunters are topping meters.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Moreso to the "Hunters are irrelevant" guy, but you said that you haven't seen hunters on meters much. Link shows that depending on fight, hunters are topping meters.

It doesn't show hunters consistently doing anything; not that the absolute top parses mean a single thing. You'll notice that for the most part, the "top" parses are fairly random except in cases where a specific class gains a much larger benefit.

This is because extreme examples of a data set don't prove trends.

It doesn't show Hunters topping any fight other than Deathwhisper anyways.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

I'm still weary about focus. I really want to see it in action.

 

[sykoex]

I have no idea what this link is supposed to demonstrate.

It demonstrates that I need to max out engineering on my rogue.

 

[arhra]

And Heroic Leap! Some Camo and Smoke Bombs would be nice too. How about a pet or something like that as well? Oh, and Heroism! That would be great, thanks.

For the most part, I haven't seen Hunters beating Rogues or Mages on anyone's meters consistently. It's not a big difference, even between "pures" and "hybrids."

We consistently have a hunter as one of the top dps (in 10mans). But then we don't have any consistent rogues (when they do show up they do well, though), and our usual mage has had pretty awful luck with drops lately, so isn't doing too great right now (the hunter is usually competing with me, a ret paladin, for the top of the meters...).

 

[Angry Grimace]

http://i43.tinypic.com/33c7sio.jpg[IMG]


We consistently have a hunter as one of the top dps (in 10mans). But then we don't have any consistent rogues (when they do show up they do well, though), and our usual mage has had pretty awful luck with drops lately, so isn't doing too great right now (the hunter is usually competing with me, a ret paladin, for the top of the meters...).[/QUOTE]
What's the DPS look like in your guild's 10m? On say, Festergut (where nobody really has to do anything other than attack a lot).

I don't know what the average guild's dps looks like compared to my own guild's since the "average" guild doens't bother to post parses.

 

[Xabora]

Sweet, I may actually play my hunter again!

 

[Interfectum]

Moreso to the "Hunters are irrelevant" guy, but you said that you haven't seen hunters on meters much. Link shows that depending on fight, hunters are topping meters.

I don't see much there that disproves my point. So they top the DPS meters in what looks to be one major boss? I'd take the utility of many other classes with a slight dip in DPS than be nothing but a DPS bot for a few raids.

My point was in reaction to you liking hunter tears as if hunters get all the perks and are spoiled children if they complain. I'm saying that, besides maybe a few instances, hunters are in dire need of something. The hunter population is a joke compared to what it used to be. I've been in tons of BGs were I'm the only hunter in there (AV included) and in many of the 5 man AOE tank-stomp extravaganzas I might as well be pissing in the wind compared to a mage or a warlock.

A lot of it might be QQ nooblet and I suxxor at hunters but still... laughing at hunter tears is like giggling when an athlete falls and breaks his neck at the special olympics.

 

[notworksafe]

I don't see much there that disproves my point. So they top the DPS meters in what looks to be one major boss? I'd take the utility of many other classes with a slight dip in DPS than be nothing but a DPS bot for a few raids.

My point was in reaction to you liking hunter tears as if hunters get all the perks and are spoiled children if they complain. I'm saying that, besides maybe a few instances, hunters are in dire need of something. The hunter population is a joke compared to what it used to be. I've been in tons of BGs were I'm the only hunter in there (AV included) and in many of the 5 man AOE tank-stomp extravaganzas I might as well be pissing in the wind compared to a mage or a warlock.

A lot of it might be QQ nooblet and I suxxor at hunters but still... laughing at hunter tears is like giggling when an athlete falls and breaks his neck at the special olympics.

I think he's not trying to point out how often Hunters top meters, but that they are clearly very competitive when it comes to ICC DPS.

 

[Interfectum]

I think he's not trying to point out how often Hunters top meters, but that they are clearly very competitive when it comes to ICC DPS.

If the all of WoW was ICC dps then yes, they'd be awesome. Shame about the rest of the game though. :lol

 

[notworksafe]

If the all of WoW was ICC dps then yes, they'd be awesome. Shame about the rest of the game though. :lol

Well for heroics it's just Volley spam. You know it's true. Can't comment on PVP though, I haven't done much of that since Season 3.

 

[Interfectum]

Well for heroics it's just Volley spam. You know it's true.

I'm so tired of looking at that spell... :lol

And yeah, Hunters used to be awesome. I'm not sure what happened but I've completely lost interest in the class. They feel very clunky and underutilized.

 

[Freyjadour]

Well for heroics it's just Volley spam. You know it's true. Can't comment on PVP though, I haven't done much of that since Season 3.

I miss CCing heroics

 

[Angry Grimace]

I think he's not trying to point out how often Hunters top meters, but that they are clearly very competitive when it comes to ICC DPS.

All pure classes are competetitive. It just depends what you consider competitive. The real difference is not all that big.

 

[Oni Link 666]

That's kind of weird how they're getting rid of ammo after all the bullshit they gave us during WOTLK. I guess it was too hard to actually do something cool with it so they just said fuck it.

I'm glad to hear about them getting rid of some melee spells. IMO they need to get rid of a bunch of more traps, aspects, and stings. Hunters just have way too much stuff on their bars already.

The low level Hunter changes sound really cool and definitely needed. People wonder why there are so many bad Hunters running around and why you hear about Hunters running around with no pet at level 30 and shit. It's because Blizzard doesn't do a good enough job to teach people how to play their class at low levels through stuff like that.

I'm also very excited about having a lot more pet storage room. Gotta catch'em all!

 

[arhra]

What's the DPS look like in your guild's 10m? On say, Festergut (where nobody really has to do anything other than attack a lot).

I don't know what the average guild's dps looks like compared to my own guild's since the "average" guild doens't bother to post parses.

Haven't actually posted any reports to WoL recently since the only thing we've really been working on is LK, where parses aren't much help, but it turns out i've still got logs from last Tuesday which included plague wing, so here's our last Festergut (this is with the 10% buff, obviously). The rest of the plague wing, sindragosa, and some LK attempts are in there too if you want to have a look (we'd killed everything else earlier in the week).

 

[mclem]

Paladins need Charge though. And Healing Rain.

I've been saying it since Vanilla: Talented added effect to Consecration. It makes so much sense!