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[Angry Grimace]

I'm glad they're bringing back Heroic Leap, but I'm concern that they said it may be used in combat. It should be used in combat for all stance IMO since it shares a cooldown with charge I don't think it will be OP.

There's also the problem that Heroic Throw still sucks and has a long cooldown, despite the fact that Paladins have Avenger's Shield which has a 30 sec. cooldown and hits up to 4 targets.

 

[Swag]

Can't wait, so glad I leveled a warrior already :lol

 

[Retro]

Further Clarification from Ghostcrawler:

In response to a Hunter QQing about Aimed Shot;

"All equivalent debuffs" means if you have the debuff today, you will have it in Cataclysm, but at 20% healing received. To avoid further confusion, we are talking about Mortal Strike, Furious Strikes, Wound Poison, Aimed Shot, Permafrost and Improved Mind Blast.

We are also strongly considering having all of these effect cause the same debuff, called Mortal Wounds, which is a physical effect and therefore undispellable. This allows the behavior to be more consistent regardless of who is applying it and lets us consider things like how easy it should be to dispel poisons (since Mortal Wounds would not be affected).

Heals will be smaller and health pools will be larger in Cataclysm, so we don't expect Mortal Wounds to feel as mandatory as it does today, but this is clearly the kind of thing that will require a lot of playtesting and feedback.

In response to a question about Gushing Wounds critting;

Almost all dots will crit. The exception will be things like Deep Wounds and Ignite because those are already the product of a crit. Rend will crit.

We are really striving for scaling parity for the various specs and classes. This means that stats like haste and crit can't be awesome for some characters and terrible for others. Most abilities need to benefit from haste and crit.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm still not convinced that Mastery isn't a silly gimmick. I'll have to try it out. Hopefully I get in the Beta.

 

[ShallNoiseUpon]

I'm still not convinced that Mastery isn't a silly gimmick. I'll have to try it out. Hopefully I get in the Beta.

It is pretty simple...


You spend points in a tree and get stuff. If you have a mastery stat on an item, these bonuses increase. It is a super easy way for Blizz to balance damage other than breaking abilities.

 

[Retro]

World of Warcraft: Cataclysm press beta invites going out

http://www.wow.com/2010/04/07/world-of-warcraft-cataclysm-press-beta-invites-going-out/

There have been no actual Cataclysm beta invitations sent out at this point in time. Any contacts that have been made with press are purely a part of preliminary planning for when we do send out invitations. We do not have a specific time frame for when this will occur, however.

As always, please be wary of scams.

(Source)

 

[notworksafe]

I'm still not convinced that Mastery isn't a silly gimmick. I'll have to try it out. Hopefully I get in the Beta.

What's not to get? You get the Mastery stat on gear, then the skills under "Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses" get better.

 

[Door2Dawn]

(Source)

Of course there hasn't been any beta invites for the press yet, thats why the email said the beta
was "gearing up".

WoW.com kinda got a little excited

 

[Jin]

There's also the problem that Heroic Throw still sucks and has a long cooldown, despite the fact that Paladins have Avenger's Shield which has a 30 sec. cooldown and hits up to 4 targets.

Yeah, outside of Protection tree I'm not really sure what the point of Heroic Throw except to tag mobs when doing dailies.

 

[Angry Grimace]

What's not to get? You get the Mastery stat on gear, then the skills under "Mastery Passive Talent Tree Bonuses" get better.

I didn't say I don't get it. It's not hard to understand the concept.

It's that it's not necessarily all the big of an improvement on the way stats are handled right now now, and it seems like it might be rather clunky trying to figure out what the actual effect of individual masteries are.

What I'm saying is, Blizzard removed Armor Penetration on the grounds that they don't like that it "does more damage," but that's essentially what mastery does too if you look at the bonuses it provides.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah, outside of Protection tree I'm not really sure what the point of Heroic Throw except to tag mobs when doing dailies.

What I was looking for was something like those spinning thrown Axes that the Vrykul mobs have that would pick up more than one target.

 

[notworksafe]

It's that it's not necessarily all the big of an improvement on the way stats are handled right now now, and it seems like it might be rather clunky trying to figure out what the actual effect of individual masteries are.

It's actually a huge change. It's one stat that does three things. Blizz can now change how Mastery bonuses work for each class without changing one overarching stat like ArP. That way each class can be balanced for their Mastery bonus from their spec instead of creating one stat that they have to make work for each class and spec.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It's actually a huge change. It's one stat that does three things. Blizz can now change how Mastery bonuses work for each class without changing one overarching stat like ArP. That way each class can be balanced for their Mastery bonus from their spec instead of creating one stat that they have to make work for each class and spec.

I get the point of it, it just doesn't seem like the old system was necessarily broken. I liked that there were stats that weren't amazingly awesome at all times like Mastery probably will be.

 

[notworksafe]

I get the point of it, it just doesn't seem like the old system was necessarily broken. I liked that there were stats that weren't amazingly awesome at all times like Mastery probably will be.

Oh of course. That makes sense. I prefer a mediocre stat system that can't be balanced for my class over one that can be custom tailored for each spec in the game as well.

 

[Akim]

Warrior changes seem awful.

MS to 20% with no extra CC. Disarm fear, but that isn't too helpful. They either need more damage or better gap closers which brings me to heroic leap. It's a good though but not as it stands being on the same cooldown as charge.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Oh of course. That makes sense. I prefer a mediocre stat system that can't be balanced for my class over one that can be custom tailored for each spec in the game as well.

Not everything has to be totally awesome at all times like the 14000 DPS 3.0.8 DK spec.

I'm going to take your opinion on it with a grain of salt because; even if, for the sake of argument, we really believed DKs ever did 14000 DPS (even right now), you also claimed that it was cool. Except, no, that would be game-breaking and retarded. Try a private server; it's not fun at all when you just own everything.

The point is, there's no real juggling of stats or even thinking about upgrades; mastery is great for everyone. I'm not saying it won't work, I'm saying I'm skeptical of the idea of making a stat that is generally awesome for every spec.

 

[notworksafe]

I'm still not convinced that Mastery isn't a silly gimmick

mastery is great for everyone.

Now that was a quick bit of convincing.

I'm saying I'm skeptical of the idea of making a stat that is generally awesome for every spec.

Do YOU even play WoW? I don't understand your logic with this. The reason we pay Blizzard $15 a month is because they keep making the game more awesome and more fun. You simply make no sense here. It's an easier stat to manage and one that can be tuned to remain both awesome and balanced.

 

[Retro]

Now that was a quick bit of convincing.

I don't think that's a victory there... I think he's saying that because Mastery is great for everyone, there's no reason not to jump at every piece of gear that has it... making one obvious choice for what stats to gear for, instead of having to figure out whether you're able to sacrifice a bit of stat X for more of stat Y. If there's just one stat to pump up, then why have stats at all?

That said, I think traditional stats like Strength or Agility will be able to compete with Mastery, and learning to tell the difference will become a part of choosing which stat you want... We just won't have crap like Armor Penetration or Haste constantly clouding the issue, or having to worry about pieces of gear we want never having the stats we need... This is especially true for non-DPS roles like Healing and Tanking, Mastery seems like it might be interesting or useful (for example, the HoT effect priests get) in really cool ways. This is nothing new since DPS specs are all about inflating damage stats no matter what you do.

Overall, I think it will improve itemization, but not really diminish the need to know what the hell your stats are.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Now that was a quick bit of convincing.



Do YOU even play WoW? I don't understand your logic with this. The reason we pay Blizzard $15 a month is because they keep making the game more awesome and more fun. You simply make no sense here. It's an easier stat to manage and one that can be tuned to remain both awesome and balanced.

What the hell are you even talking about now? That wasn't the point at all, you literally have no clue what the point of the conversation you're trying to have is.

I don't think that's a victory there... I think he's saying that because Mastery is great for everyone, there's no reason not to jump at every piece of gear that has it... making it effectively a roundabout way to just do what Blizzard is apparently opposed to; pumping up stats.

That said, I think traditional stats like Strength or Agility will be able to complete with Mastery, and learning to tell the difference will become a part of choosing which stat you want...

And as far as non-DPS roles like Healing and Tanking, Mastery seems like it might be interesting or useful (for example, the HoT effect priests get). This is nothing new since DPS specs are all about inflating damage stats no matter what you do.

What I'm saying is, I don't think it's a bad thing at all that Armor Penetration wasn't as good for Paladins as it was for Warriors. It's not bad that stats don't have an equal value to every class at all, and in general most classes were all viable for PvE content in Wrath from 3.0.3 to now, so I'm skeptical it's a necessary change.

 

[notworksafe]

I don't think that's a victory there... I think he's saying that because Mastery is great for everyone, there's no reason not to jump at every piece of gear that has it... making it effectively a roundabout way to just do what Blizzard is apparently opposed to; pumping up stats.

That said, I think traditional stats like Strength or Agility will be able to complete with Mastery, and learning to tell the difference will become a part of choosing which stat you want...

And as far as non-DPS roles like Healing and Tanking, Mastery seems like it might be interesting or useful (for example, the HoT effect priests get). This is nothing new since DPS specs are all about inflating damage stats no matter what you do.

I've no worries about traditional stats being replaced wholesale by Mastery. It's just a nice way for Blizz to replace passive talents and such with a sprinkling of the Mastery stat on some gear. Plus it's a nice way to mess around with classes without breaking their stats wholesale. I think in the future Blizz will just turn up or down Mastery bonuses on a class when it is under/overpowered and the affected players won't have to change gear to compensate (stack lots of haste in patch x, then switch it all to ArP in patch y).

 

[arhra]

What I'm saying is, Blizzard removed Armor Penetration on the grounds that they don't like that it "does more damage," but that's essentially what mastery does too if you look at the bonuses it provides.

No, they removed ArPen because the way it worked was incredibly convoluted and opaque, and because the value it had to various spec s (or even between different gear levels within a single spec) varied between "best stat ever stack this and nothing but" and "utter trash, never even consider gear with it on unless there's no alternative".

 

[Akim]

Warrior changes seem awful.

MS to 20% with no extra CC. Disarm fear, but that isn't too helpful. They either need more damage or better gap closers which brings me to heroic leap. It's a good though but not as it stands being on the same cooldown as charge.

Also if they wanted to give us a fear they should have lowered the cooldown on intimidating shout. I shouldn't have to choose between peeling a melee and a less than reliable fear.

 

[Freyjadour]

Really hoping they fix Rogue being 90%+ passive damage.

 

[notworksafe]

What I'm saying is, I don't think it's a bad thing at all that Armor Penetration wasn't as good for Paladins as it was for Warriors. It's not bad that stats don't have an equal value to every class at all, and in general most classes were all viable for PvE content in Wrath from 3.0.3 to now, so I'm skeptical it's a necessary change.

It is if they share gear however. If the ArP was replaced with Mastery then each class could get a good bonus from the same piece of gear.


EDIT: How about this situation? A lot of tank plate has Expertise on it. Good for Warriors and DK, not so good for Paladin. If a good piece of tank gear drops and has a ton of Expertise, I pretty much have to skip it because that stat is a waste for me after only a small amount (25ish). If it had Mastery, I could get a good bonus from it and so could any other plate tank. That bonus would be customized to our class and give everyone that used it a benefit.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It is if they share gear however. If the ArP was replaced with Mastery then each class could get a good bonus from the same piece of gear.

So we finally reach the point; it's not a given or even necessarily desirable that each class should get an identical benefit out of everything. It largely depends how much mastery (as a stat) they are planning to give players. Which is why I said I would have to check it out on Beta.

 

[notworksafe]

So we finally reach the point; it's not a given or even necessarily desirable that each class should get an identical benefit out of everything. It largely depends how much mastery (as a stat) they are planning to give players. Which is why I said I would have to check it out on Beta.

But you can't say for sure which classes are in a raid. It further eliminates the need to make totally different gear for different styles of play when people don't share an equal need for certain stats but do share the same gear type. Plus you don't have to get a new gear set when you switch specs within your class, because different specs sometimes favor different stats.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It is if they share gear however. If the ArP was replaced with Mastery then each class could get a good bonus from the same piece of gear.


EDIT: How about this situation? A lot of tank plate has Expertise on it. Good for Warriors and DK, not so good for Paladin. If a good piece of tank gear drops and has a ton of Expertise, I pretty much have to skip it because that stat is a waste for me after only a small amount (25ish). If it had Mastery, I could get a good bonus from it and so could any other plate tank. That bonus would be customized to our class and give everyone that used it a benefit.

Why is it a given that every item should be a direct upgrade for you? You could make an identical argument with every other class in the game and their hit rating. Part of the endgame process is balancing around stat-caps and individual stat weights.

On another topic, I never really much cared for Titan's Grip. It's too bad they'll never be able to remove it now that they've got it. :lol

 

[Xabora]

Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that its highly anticipated real-time strategy game, StarCraft® II: Wings of Liberty™, will be available both in a standard edition and in a limited-release Collector's Edition packed with exclusive bonus materials. Players who purchase either edition will be able to play online for no additional fee through the new version of Battle.net®, the premier online gaming destination for Blizzard Entertainment gamers.

StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty will be available on DVD-ROM for Windows® XP/Windows Vista®/Windows® 7 and Macintosh®. The standard edition will sell for a suggested retail price of $59.99 and will also be available shortly after release as a download through the online Blizzard Store. The special Collector's Edition package, which is priced at $99.99 and will only be available at retail stores, will include the following bonus items in addition to the game disc:

* The Art of StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty, a 176-page book featuring artwork from the game
* An exclusive 2GB USB flash drive replica of Jim Raynor's dog tag, which comes preloaded with the original StarCraft and the StarCraft: Brood War® expansion set
* A behind-the-scenes DVD containing over an hour of developer interviews, cinematics with director's commentary, and more
* The official StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty soundtrack CD, containing 14 epic tracks from the game along with exclusive bonus tracks
* StarCraft comic book issue #0, a prequel to the comic series
* A World of Warcraft® mini Thor in-game pet that can be applied to all World of Warcraft characters on a single Battle.net account
* Exclusive Battle.net downloadable content, including special portraits for your Battle.net profile, decals to customize your units in-game, and a visually unique version of the terran Thor unit

Heh...

 

[Angry Grimace]

Heh...

When WC 4 comes out I hope I get a nice mini-Thrall pet for World of Starcraft.

 

[notworksafe]

Why is it a given that every item should be a direct upgrade for you? You could make an identical argument with every other class in the game and their hit rating. Part of the endgame process is balancing around stat-caps and individual stat weights.

That's the point I'm making. It won't be as much about that anymore because of Mastery. I think it's a good thing, too. If they make it easier to understand, then more people can get into the endgame. Then there will be Hard Modes for the rest of us.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That's the point I'm making. It won't be as much about that anymore because of Mastery. I think it's a good thing, too. If they make it easier to understand, then more people can get into the endgame. Then there will be Hard Modes for the rest of us.

...okay one more time; but the point I'm making is that Class Homogenization is not necessarily a good thing. Balancing around stats is basically half of what you do at the endgame level; you're still doing it with expertise and hit (which do not have equal stat weights to all classes).

You don't have to agree with that (Blizzard obviously doesn't), but I don't think you're understanding the concern I'm bringing up here. I'm simply saying, I'm skeptical of the mastery stat in general because it sounds equally awesome for every spec of every class, and I don't think that's necessarily interesting because it doesn't require any kind of thought; you just want a lot of it because it just makes you better.

Also, there was no problem getting into the endgame for anyone of any spec that wasn't Frost Mage or Sub Rogue this expansion. I don't get the argument about "easier to understand," either; mastery is a stat that apparently does 90 different things.

 

[Retro]

Warrior Q&A:(Source)

Here are some follow ups based on what is being discussed.

Q: Will the rotation for a Fury Warrior just be Bloodthirst and Slam with Heroic Strike to burn off rage?
A: We think Fury is going to end up needing another attack in there for single-target fights. Furious Sundering was intended more as having to Sunder being less of a penalty, but at only 3 stacks, it may not end up being a big deal and we don’t want Fury to feel like they have to purchase a talent that they may not always use. We don’t want Whirlwind to be a good button against single targets however. It essentially gets “free” damage against groups of targets when it’s effective at using against single targets. It’s okay if warriors still do more damage in fights where they can use Cleave and similar attacks often, but right now it’s too extreme.

Q: Are one-handed Fury warriors going to be competing with rogues for one-handed weapons?
A: This is unlikely. Rogues and shaman will want one-handers with Agility, while warriors and death knights will want them with Strength. I won’t be surprised when one of these classes picks up the other’s weapon as it could be an upgrade simply based on the damage, but it won’t be optimal.

Q: Why are warriors not getting some kind of AoE tanking tool?
A: We think the newly buffed Thunder Clap plus Shockwave are sufficient abilities for AoE tanking. The design of Vengeance should make sure that threat generation doesn’t start to slip behind as the dps characters gear up. It’s not our intention that tanks face a constant struggle to generate enough threat, even in group situations, but we also don’t want threat to be totally irrelevant either. The danger for tanking too many creatures should also be tank death not threat management.

Q: Is only Sunder Armor being changed?
A: Rogue Expose Armor and other abilities that apply a similar debuff are being changed accordingly. They will all provide the same debuff at 12% armor reduction.

Q: What about rage loss when changing stances?
A: We still want the act of changing stances to require more consideration than just clicking two buttons to use the ability you want. One idea we are going to explore is that you don’t lose rage when you change stances, but you won’t gain additional rage for a short period of time after changing. This lets you say swap to do an Execute without losing your rage bar, but still keeps the idea that shifting constantly comes with inherent efficiency risks.

Q: Is the intent of Gushing Wound that warriors constantly ask for targets to be kited around?
A: No, it’s intended to be a bonus when you’re in an encounter where the target either moves around a lot (Ex. BONNNNE STORMMMM-ing Marrowgar) or just has to be moved around a lot (say Lich King). Warriors shouldn’t have the expectation of forcing every PvE opponent to move but it would be entertaining to watch this (from a third party perspective).

I don't get the argument about "easier to understand," either; mastery is a stat that apparently does 90 different things.

But only 9 for your specific character, and only three for your specific spec. Mastery is simply a way to make a given talent tree give you the kind of raw stat bonuses you'd want without having to blow points on talents to get it. It is my understanding that as you level, your Mastery stats will increase for whichever talent tree you are spec'd into.

And then on top of that, you can find equipment with the Mastery stat on it that increase those three specific attributes. So maybe your mastery tree gives you +Hit and you're hit capped; you can pass on Mastery, in that case, in favor of something else.

The problem is, the third mastery bonus looks like it will be this awesome effect you always want (like an extra chance to hit or a HoT effect for every spell you cast)... the question is, will WoW-players (usually focused on stats) suddenly take their eyes off the numbers and consider whether improving a given mechanic is worth it.

In other words, WoW is movingtowards more interesting gameplay choices than "+1 AGL vs. +2 AP -1 STR". At least that's how I read it, but I could very well be wrong. Still very early and we don't really know shit, and what we do know is subject to change at any time.

After all, Spirit Link, PW: Barrier and Heroic Leap have all been in the Beta before... They didn't make it in last time, so... I'm just saying, nothing is set in stone.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Warrior Q&A:(Source)




But only 9 for your specific character, and only three for your specific spec. Mastery is simply a way to make a given talent tree give you the kind of raw stat bonuses you'd want without having to blow points on talents to get it. It is my understanding that as you level, your Mastery stats will increase for whichever talent tree you are spec'd into.

And then on top of that, you can find equipment with the Mastery stat on it that increase those three specific attributes. So maybe your mastery tree gives you +Hit and you're hit capped; you can pass on Mastery, in that case, in favor of something else.

The problem is, the third mastery bonus looks like it will be this awesome effect you always want (like an extra chance to hit or a HoT effect for every spell you cast)... the question is, will WoW-players (usually focused on stats) suddenly take their eyes off the numbers and consider whether improving a given mechanic is worth it.

In other words, WoW is movingtowards more interesting gameplay choices than "+1 AGL vs. +2 AP -1 STR". At least that's how I read it, but I could very well be wrong. Still very early and we don't really know shit, and what we do know is subject to change at any time.

After all, Spirit Link, PW: Barrier and Heroic Leap have all been in the Beta before... They didn't make it in last time, so... I'm just saying, nothing is set in stone.

The problem I'm seeing is that the mastery bonuses work like:

A) You do more damage
B) You do more damage
C) Awesome Effect you'll want 100% uptime on

 

[explodet]

The problem I'm seeing is that the mastery bonuses work like:

A) You do more damage
B) You do more damage
C) Awesome Effect you'll want 100% uptime on

Unless you're a warlock, where all three are You do more damage.

Although I guess that's not quite true, demonology mastery is your DEMON does more damage. :lol

 

[Retro]

Priest Clarification:(Source)

- We've seen some confusion about Mind Spike. The intention is that you can’t always get your full DoTs up on a target in time before it’s dead. Shadow priests sometimes aren’t sure what to do on, for example, a fight where a boss suddenly spawns an add that you’re supposed to quickly burn down and then go back to the main boss. Mind Spike is what you do to that add. As a rule of thumb, if it’s going to die in under 15 seconds, then go with Mind Spike. Otherwise get your DoTs up and go into your longer rotation.

- The movement speed from Inner Will stacks with the boot speed bonus. It won’t stack with some movement buffs like say Body and Soul.

- We know a lot of people are looking for answers about Lightwell. We're reviewing the talent and spell functionality, but do not have any details to share as of yet regarding its future.

The problem I'm seeing is that the mastery bonuses work like:

A) You do more damage
B) You do more damage
C) Awesome Effect you'll want 100% uptime on

That's pretty much what I'm seeing too, which is what I basically said at the end there; the fact that mastery is adding this cool new mechanic may have players saying "Fuck the stats, I want to cause an extra 50% damage attack all the time!". But really, that's just people not understanding stats and gearing incorrectly, which is the same thing we have now... the difference is that the A and B parts make these mistakes have less impact.

Bob the Retadin might pass on an armor piece that gives him, say, +20 strength because his current piece has Mastery on it. But that Mastery is boosting his DPS more than say... gearing a shitload of ArPen, which didn't help his DPS nearly as much. When in doubt, Mastery is probably a solid stat to spec into.

Another thing worth noting; Mastery bonuses can kind of educate players as to what they might want. If Bob's Mastery talents say "+ Strength / + Armor Pen", he'll know that strength and armor penetration are good things for him... instead of stacking Haste or Spellpower which do shit for him.

Like I said, still very early in the whole process, we're looking at Beta this month, probably a few months of that and then release in August if the fucking planets align and a miracle happens.... I'm thinking October or November, honestly... but we just have no clue how far things are along yet.

 

[notworksafe]

Unless you're a warlock, where all three are You do more damage.

Although I guess that's not quite true, demonology mastery is your DEMON does more damage. :lol

Well the mechanic changes for each class and spec. Some specs get ArP instead of having to gem it. Some get haste instead of having to gem it. Priests are a good example because they get Meditation in two specs and Spell Crit in a third. It's just a stat that replaces spec specific gemming and enchanting.

 

[arhra]

The problem I'm seeing is that the mastery bonuses work like:

A) You do more damage
B) You do more damage
C) Awesome Effect you'll want 100% uptime on

That's not a problem, though. That's the intent of the design.

Mastery bonuses are simply there to replace the masses of "increases <damage/healing/tanking> by X%" talents that currently exist, so that you get those bonuses passively from speccing into actual interesting talents that affect the way you play.

Mastery as a stat on gear is just a nice extra that gives you something else to juggle and make gear decisions more interesting.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That's not a problem, though. That's the intent of the design.

Mastery bonuses are simply there to replace the masses of "increases <damage/healing/tanking> by X%" talents that currently exist, so that you get those bonuses passively from speccing into actual interesting talents that affect the way you play.

Mastery as a stat on gear is just a nice extra that gives you something else to juggle and make gear decisions more interesting.

But it sounds like it would do the exact opposite; all three effects you get are things you probably want a lot of. My problem is that with replacing those other stats makes it sound as though it's not really a choice at all.

 

[Nitsuj23]

Blizzard said only high level gear would even have mastery on it. We're all stacking stats right now, just different stats. I highly doubt, as a DK, that any piece with mastery won't have strength as well. What I'm trying to say is I don't really see us choosing between mastery and other stats - if the piece of gear is good it will have all our desirable stats along with mastery.

 

[Nitsuj23]

But it sounds like it would do the exact opposite; all three effects you get are things you probably want a lot of. My problem is that with replacing those other stats makes it sound as though it's not really a choice at all.

We don't have a choice right now though. If you're a blood DK with 264 wep, 4pc t10, you're stacking armor pen. If you're an UH DK you're gearing for str/arp (crit if you have to) and gemming 20 str or 10str/10crit for bonuses. If you're maximizing your dps you really never have a choice.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Blizzard said only high level gear would even have mastery on it. We're all stacking stats right now, just different stats. I highly doubt, as a DK, that any piece with mastery won't have strength as well. What I'm trying to say is I don't really see us choosing between mastery and other stats - if the piece of gear is good it will have all our desirable stats along with mastery.

Expertise, Mastery, Hit, Crit, Haste, Strength and Stamina. Strength and stamina aren't changing, those have always been like that; there's never been a point in WLK where I had to make a choice between strength and any other stat because base stats are on everything. (The only time I had to consider it was on trinkets.)

 

[Ferrio]

Really really REALLY not liking the Warrior preview from a prot perspective.

Especially Heroic Leap, what a worthless skill that is.

 

[Nitsuj23]

Expertise, Mastery, Hit, Crit, Haste, Strength and Stamina. Strength and stamina aren't changing, those have always been like that; there's never been a point in WLK where I had to make a choice between strength and any other stat because base stats are on everything. (The only time I had to consider it was on trinkets.)

True, but right now we don't have a choice. It's basically a priority system in that sense that once you're hit and expertise (some specs) capped, you stack gear with strength/arp. I mean right now you could choose to wear gear with haste, but you're not going to if you want to maximize your dps. Could you give an example how we're free to choose our gear at the moment (serious question, not trying to be sarcastic)?

 

[sykoex]

Whirlwind = Warrior Consecration. /yawn

Actually it sounds like the opposite. Instead of just spamming it whenever like paladins with concecrate, it'll be more situational like fan of knives or blizzard. Good change I think.

 

[Retro]

More clarification on Warriors:
(concerning damage talents and mastery)

The kinds of talents we want to eliminate are the ones that say "You do 5% more damage." Unending Fury is pretty close to that because it buffs the attacks Fury warriors use the most. On the other hand, Flurry is a pretty unambiguous dps increase, but it does it in a way that's a little more interesting. A talent tree that didn't buff damage of a dps spec at all would feel lame. We just want to free up enough talent points that you can get more of the fun utility ones.

Actually it sounds like the opposite. Instead of just spamming it whenever like paladins with concecrate, it'll be more situational like fan of knives or blizzard. Good change I think.

Perhaps. "Hits everything around you now, but for less damage" sounds like consecration to me, though you're probably right in that it will be less spammy. Maybe this is a sign that consecration will be changed to be more of an aoe burst than just a so-close-to-passive-it's-almost-an-aura type AoE. Probably not though, Paladins need MORE buttons to push, not less. :lol

 

[Judderman]

Hey I just got back into WoW, I stopped right before Ulduar was released. Are there any resources/links that can help me get back into the swing of things? What are the best dailies? Best way to get gear? I play a Dwarf Hunter and I already found a build on EJ, I'm just trying to get reacquainted with everything else.

 

[Ferrio]

Hey I just got back into WoW, I stopped right before Ulduar was released. Are there any resources/links that can help me get back into the swing of things? What are the best dailies? Best way to get gear? I play a Dwarf Hunter and I already found a build on EJ, I'm just trying to get reacquainted with everything else.

Run random heroics until your eyes bleed.


Once you get geared enough (won't take long), try to get into some ToC raids, then eventually ICC raids.

 

[Judderman]

Run random heroics until your eyes bleed.


Once you get geared enough (won't take long), try to get into some ToC raids, then eventually ICC raids.

NVM, stupid question

 

[Angry Grimace]

More clarification on Warriors:
(concerning damage talents and mastery)




Perhaps. "Hits everything around you now, but for less damage" sounds like consecration to me, though you're probably right in that it will be less spammy. Maybe this is a sign that consecration will be changed to be more of an aoe burst than just a so-close-to-passive-it's-almost-an-aura type AoE. Probably not though, Paladins need MORE buttons to push, not less. :lol

The response is only tepid at the moment becuase people haven't realized that Bladestorm procs Whirlwind attacks (not an attack called Bladestorm) which means Bladestorm will also do 50% less damage.

 

[Retro]

More Warrior clarification from Ghostcrawler:

Concerning threat:

I understand the appeal of threat management from a logical sense, and your point about it being engaging to everyone is compelling, but in application we find that it's one of those things that a lot of players just don't find fun. The UI doesn't do a great job of explaining threat, and even if we could build a UI to portray it in a more exciting way (which to be fair, we probably could) it's still a pretty intangible concept compared to damage and healing so I'm not sure it would feel great even then.

Many DPS players don't like the mechanic that there's this higher level of damage they could achieve if only they weren't constantly being throttled by this one dude up in front. It often ends up feeling not like the group is overcoming a challenge together, but that the dude in front needs to get his act together. It just makes tanks feel weak. When the raid dies because the boss hammered the tank, then that feels cooperative because it's the raid vs. the boss. When the raid wipes because the warlock got aggro, then it feels like it's the tank vs. the warlock (or maybe the raid vs. the warlock or the raid vs. the tank).

We always see a lot of negative feedback from tanks when they feel like they can't hold aggro. To be sure some of that is relative when the warrior sees the paladin generate more threat, but it's also a pretty constant source of friction for tanks when they feel like they don't have the tools they need for the job. You can write that off as casuals who just want free epics, but I think we see "we can't generate enough threat" feedback more than we see "please nerf this boss; he's too hard" feedback.

Really, we're talking about relative degrees though. No warrior tank should be able to Thunder Clap and then go get a beer because they're going to then maintain aggro no matter what. In the situations where that happens today I think it's because of overtuned abilities like Tricks or Misdirect (or sometimes tank abilities themselves).

Perhaps put more succinctly, a lot of tank players just seem to find the survival game more fun than the threat game.

I know that's slightly off topic, but I respect Vontre's opinions and wanted to go into a little more detail.

Concerning Sword / Poleaxe / Mace specialty:

I'm sure we'll end up saying similar things several times this week, but if it helps, imagine that every number in the game either doubles or gets divided by half at random. In other words, you don't know how much damage or even how much crit a (theoretical, since we're curtting it) Poleaxe spec talent would provide you anymore. You don't know whether cutting it is a buff or a nerf. Since you aren't armed with that information, all you can really provide is whether the chance to get an extra swing is more fun than a talent that just increases your damage.

I can understand some of the confusion. When we do patches like 3.3 or even 3.3.3 then it makes sense to view everything through the lens of the current status quo. This isn't one of those patches. You are gaining more levels. Stats are changing. Many things are changing. Don't assume that numbers that we don't strictly call out will stay at all the same. In fact, you can probably assume the opposite.

Mechanics probably will stay the same unless specified otherwise. For example, you don't need to go as far as to say "Who knows if warriors will even use axes in Cataclysm?" They almost certainly will. But speculating on whether axe spec or sword spec would cause more damage in Cataclysm is fraught with risk.

Concerning Heroic Leap's Thunderclap effect:

I think too many of you are focusing on the Thunder Clap portion of Heroic Leap.

Imagine instead the tooltip said "Leap into combat, crushing all enemies within the landing area for massive damage and slowing their attack speed for 10 sec."

Concerning Heroic Leap's damage;

No, it will do massive damage and apply the Thunder Clap debuff. That's like saying Bladestorm is just Whirlwind with a little CC immunity thrown in, so why do we need another Whirlwind?

Concerning Inner Rage:

Inner Rage isn't supposed to feel kiss / curse. It's supposed to feel like a limit break or similar video game analogy. When I get to 100 rage, I go into overdrive mode and cause even more damage. Rather than hitting max rage being a problem (because I'm wasting resources I could be gaining) it's something fun instead.

We put in some of that extra explanation because we don't want warriors to feel like the right way to play is to do nothing until they have 100 rage and then start having fun. It's supposed to feel like getting a string of crits or eating a big hit or something translate into higher damage for a short time.

Concerning the Dual-wield Titan's Grip equivalent:

No, the whole point is to get to use the faster one-handed weapons. The talent just needs to boost the damage so that it feels competitive with Titan's Grip.

(Source)

Apologies if things are unclear; trying to be as succinct as possible so i'm not spamming this thread with every single update. I think from here on out I'll just post the previews and the Q&A sections after it... easier on me, less spammy on the thread.