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WP: Before Michelle, Barack Obama asked another woman to marry him.
- Thread starter Deepwater
- Start date
GuitarAtomik
Member
It's not a matter of should I exist or not. Let me loop this back around to the comment that I'm taking issue with:
This comment come across to me as "Thank God that Chicago's political climate encouraged Barack to marry a black woman instead of a white one." I know the second part to that is "Because it helped get him elected" but still. Doesn't sit right with me. And again, Deepwater, if that's not what you intended with that comment I'd love for you to clarify. I could just be totally misunderstanding what you're saying, but that's how it came across to me.
Aaronology
Member
Obama largely never had to earn the trust of the black community. He didn't have to campaign strongly specifically to garner the black vote. With a black wife, black children and his roots in Chicago, his dedication to the black community was easier to assume. I imagine this in turn allowed him to devote more energy to appealing to white voters and to speak much less about issues effecting minorities than someone like Hillary Clinton had to.
This unarguably changes for him with a white wife and white children. This Obama has to fight a battle Michelle Barack never did. He has to be more overt in showing his dedication to PoC. It's no longer tacit; It has to be spoken aloud, it has to be shown and clearly. And I doubt there is any way he does this without also reminding many white voters much more pointedly that he is, in fact, a biracial black man. Look no further to his comments on Trayvon Martin to see what sort of negative blowback this could cause amongst white America. Maybe his appeals to the black community turn off white voters who otherwise would have swayed his way? Who knows; Things would definitely have been different and, I imagine, much harder for Obama with a white family.
So no, it isn't that I think he would have failed to win over the black community. On the contrary, I think he would have done so well enough. But in doing so, Obama would have gained the burden of appearing to be a presidential candidate for black people to the significant numbers of his white voters who momentarily were able to overlook his skin color. In the end I'd wager it would have been bigotry from white America that would have prevented him from winning, not African Americans.
This unarguably changes for him with a white wife and white children. This Obama has to fight a battle Michelle Barack never did. He has to be more overt in showing his dedication to PoC. It's no longer tacit; It has to be spoken aloud, it has to be shown and clearly. And I doubt there is any way he does this without also reminding many white voters much more pointedly that he is, in fact, a biracial black man. Look no further to his comments on Trayvon Martin to see what sort of negative blowback this could cause amongst white America. Maybe his appeals to the black community turn off white voters who otherwise would have swayed his way? Who knows; Things would definitely have been different and, I imagine, much harder for Obama with a white family.
So no, it isn't that I think he would have failed to win over the black community. On the contrary, I think he would have done so well enough. But in doing so, Obama would have gained the burden of appearing to be a presidential candidate for black people to the significant numbers of his white voters who momentarily were able to overlook his skin color. In the end I'd wager it would have been bigotry from white America that would have prevented him from winning, not African Americans.
No that's basically what I meant. His legacy would look different with a white woman.
to be fair his children would still be black, just his wife.
It's funny how Lincoln-esque this new bio seems. Lincoln also had a "secret" first love before his political ambitions were fully formed and some of his contemporary critics tried to use that fact to undercut his marriage to Mary Todd while others pinpointed that time in his life as his turn from gentle country lawyer to ruthless, single-minded politician aiming for the presidency.
There's this sweet clip with a 106 year old woman being over the moon seeing a black president with a black wife. Made me tear up seeing this.
https://youtu.be/XL6E4y7DTn4
Dark skin, intelligent, fit, headstrong: We needed this.
https://youtu.be/XL6E4y7DTn4
Dark skin, intelligent, fit, headstrong: We needed this.
Aaronology
Member
A single black grandparent, an Asian grandparent, and two white grandparents. Doubtful. Beyond simply "biracial", what people considered them in this country would depend largely on how they looked; It's superficial, stupid and completely American.
You know this.
gutter_trash
Banned
that was awesome!!! She's so happy
One drop of black and you're considered black in this country. That's been the one constant since the beginning.
To be honest? I dont really give a damn. Its a everyday hypothetical, personal relationship issue involving a PAST president. I am not sure exactly whether the optics issue would have mattered as much as to influence the election that year. It's basically unknowable.
theclosetfan
Member
I had a similar thought. It's an interesting parallel.
There is something ​called reality, live in it. This isn't a computer program where you can run a different simulation to get a possible different answer.
In this reality, it doesn't matter. It doesn't change a thing and we can never know.
What if Al Gore won? What if Bush was a good president, all these questions are ridiculously stupid.
Aaronology
Member
Historically, sure. Now? Look how quick racists are to downplay Obama's achievements in the context of his heritage with "he's half white, you know", as if the history of the one drop rule suddenly evaporated when he was elected. In this particular instance, I highly doubt this hypothetical Obama's offspring would be labeled black if 1) they did not appear to be at all and 2) they did not consider themselves as such.
Gabrielle Reece is as black as Obama. Do you really think the people quick to pull out the "he's not the first black President!" shtick would call his kids black if they looked like her?
This is a weird conversation.
Unknown One
Member
And was it necessary? It's rather pathetic.
lol that's great.
LilWayneSuckz
Member
Tell that to the many Gaffers who criticize Hillary for not doing enough to combat Trump.
Obama would have had a hard time making it through the primaries with a white (or white passing) wife. The black support was in full effect because of the duo of him and Michelle.
tell that to the gaffers who want to relitigate the 2016 dem primary or general election in every single political thread and not me.
The question had merit, which is why people were responding to it before yall decided to inject your useless comments
Frost Walrus
Member
Oh yeah, this story reminds me of a "story" from 2012. At least this story has actual biographical value and insight into a former president though.
Possibly but it's a stretch to say those in the US Black community who would be swayed enough not to vote in the primaries would have been enough in numbers to cause him a loss against Hillary. Ignoring any probable changes Barack would have had as a person had he not met Michelle, Barack still was not only one of the best campaigners in the US but had one of the greatest campaigns we'd ever seen in the US in 08. And even if his wife was that big of a problem that it would have cost him enough Black votes to lose, his campaign would have addressed it head on (keeping in mind that Hillary nor McCain could have attacked him over it without hurting their own campaigns).
Lol, yeah. Well, they can always do the "our girl almost married the president!" old person routine at parties.
The biography sounds interesting (I had no idea the Law School presidency was such a big deal at the time.)
The idea that he might have had to sacrifice personal happiness in pursuit of politics is a sucky one, but those are the dice you roll. By all accounts he and Michelle seem happy so I don't imagine he's the kind of guy to dwell too hard on what might have been. It's actually probably one of the most relatable anecdotes I've heard from his life, because I think a lot of us have relationships where we realize you're growing apart from the other person. It's not about who's "wrong" or right in the relationship, it's just conflicting life paths.
Also, the bit about Obama being insufferable in class seems like it describes every high achiever I've known. You can't wait for them to get out of your hair and go change the world.
Obama also was the Hope and Change candidate. I think that was the biggest point in his favor over everything else. We were probably going to get the monkey/"go back to Africa" stuff regardless once he was in the office, white woman by his side or not.
Byakuya769
Member
Glad "he was really in love with a white woman" can be added to the board with "he was raised by white grandparents, don't you know?"
Just another not so subtle attack on black achievement and black relationships.
Just another not so subtle attack on black achievement and black relationships.
old manatee
Banned
And this is the EXACT reason Obama would have been DOA for president if he had a Hapa/white/fair skinned wife. There is a stereotype present that black men who "Make it" get white women, and they are characterized as lame,cornballish, and flat out sellouts. Its enough to the point where people will treat you different from the jump if you have nonblack partner.
Barack's image as the cool charismatic,suave, and hip guy with Black folks came from Michelle. Young black women saw him as someone they could aspire to be with. Older black women wanted to have a son like him dating a woman like Michelle.
Shadowhelper
Banned
Yes, it is wrong to moderate in memoirs. The whole point of a memoir is pouring yourself out there. Lots of people took it very genuinely and authentically, which is just preposterous. That's not a memoir. Obama isn't the only one guilty of this, it's a common and cynical tool, I'm not commenting on him so much as I am on the people who think its an actual memoir, and how I just thought that was absurd.
No, I don't have unrealistic expectations. That's the whole point. Obama is just like them all. I have the exact right expectations. An opportunist who made very calculated moves. His lack of real passion for African American rights, makes so much sense, and his more internationalist, status quo beliefs.
It's disillusioning. Some people are true believers, authentic. There's nothing unrealistic to hope Obama is like that too, especially when he presents himself that way. Some of you are far too defensive of Obama. At the end of the day he is probably going to go down as the best president of our lifetimes, and probably rightfully so, he was effective in the second term, and stood for good. But that doesn't mean at his core, perhaps, he was just an opportunist who did this status rather than to better the world, and just like the other conmen, Blair and Clinton. Telling his first address since coming back into the world was to Wallstreet Bankers for $600,000.
It's the difference between, i'd say Sanders, or I could pick another politician, that rare politician you believe has real authenticity and the rest. Not an empty but charismatic authenticity like Bill Clinton and apparently Barak Obama too. I was kinda suspected it. This really makes everything make so much sense. Especially how he dealt with African American issues in his first term, and how he spoke to them. Second term that all changed. But this is the reason Obama never turned out to be the racial and social justice warrior we thought he was going to become. He never was that. But those guys do exist.
But the ones who run on this stuff and win tend to be conmen like Bill Clinton, Blair and Obama. Obsessed with status, wealth, and hobnobbing.
theignoramus
Member
Opposition to Black and White marriage is a two way street. It's just that the Black side of that opposition generally doesn't involve disowning their children for it.
theignoramus
Member
Seems like he dodged a bullet. Imagine putting up with that passive aggressive commentary everytime the in laws came around?
MWS Natural
Member
THIS 100% Michelle gave him the "street cred" that he wouldn't have had on his own.
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
Optics are important though. Take a look at Mike Conley Jr's son. That kid doesn't look black at all and a child like that would have been a HUGE problem for Obama. A white wife and a kid that looks 100% white and as Trump would say, he couldn't get elected to be the dog catcher.
I think the more humorous note is that WMAF are now viewed as so toxic that an interracial relationship has to be prefaced saying they are not racially biased about their child, in fact, dating interracially.
EurasianTiger really has changed society.
I shouldn't have to explain why comparing Bernie Sanders in 2016 to Obama in 2008 is a bad idea (Obama was the better campaigner not just for his own campaign, but for Hillary's vs Bernie). Also it's 2008 we're talking about, not 2016. It wasn't an election to replace Obama, who is still popular and where people on average were happier and the US was doing better. It was an election to replace the extremely unpopular president "George Bush doesn't care about Black people" aka "Stankonia said they are willing to drop bombs over Baghdad". Again, not disagreeing that Obama marrying the woman in this book would have affected the opinions of some Black voters negatively, just that Obama himself as a campaigner and speaker, his campaign team, the potential of a Black president, and how terrible Bush was would have overcome any potential loss from the US Black community.
TheMan
Member
I just dont think it's possible to succeed in national politics without being a least a little cold and calculating. There's no such thing as the reluctant hero who bravely takes on the mantle on leadership- you have to fight for a prize like that and step on some people on the way up.
Interesting. Yeah, seems like some people are just hungry to try to discredit a popular ex-president for their own ambitions. Noted.
autumnleaf
Member
nelsonroyale
Member
I can understand his embracing his african side being in part strategic...Obama is mixed race, and not African American in a historical sense. As someone who is also mixed race, it doesn't surprise me that identity was always a central consideration for him.
Omegasquash
Member
Dude is back for a few weeks and people are already at him. Grabbing on to anything to make him seem like anything less than an ex-president that wanted to make the world a better place.
LilWayneSuckz
Member
He is most definitely African American in a historical sense.
What America do you live in? People with 1 black and 1 white parent have ALWAYS been considered black in America.
That and traditionally the strongest political support base has been the black Protestant church community for black politicians. That shit would have not flown half as well with a white wife. He wouldn't have been as "credible" as a representative for blacks, particularly church going conservative nuclear family types. Black women in particular fucking despise prominent black men that marry white women, especially if they were with a black woman prior.
I'm black.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Would Obama's career have been where he was at in 07-08 with a perceived white wife? Probably not. For discussions sake let's say he still makes it to the primaries... Clinton still had the Black vote. Obama had to earn it, prove he could get the nomination before Blacks left Clinton. That would have been an uphill battle. Interracial marriage Obama would have seen a big drop in support from Black women & Liberal and moderate white males IMO. He would have to attempt to soften the blow and remind the public that his wife is Asian and not just white. Clinton and the media would have race trolled the marriage and he may not have recovered from that.
Maybe he's talented enough to have weathered that storm but I think his presidency would have came later than 08, if not never.
old manatee
Banned
I'll bet Michelle wasn't even his first kiss. despicable.
He wouldnt have been president at all.
He is tied to Michelle in that she not only gave him credibility with black women(who are doing the most voting in the black community...lets be honest), but also with black men who he was cool with by virtue of being popular with their female demographic. Young Jeezy didnt make "My president is black" because he sat down and read through Obama's political stances. It was because he was immensely popular with his female fan base, which translated to being acceptable for the male crowd.
CrimsonSquall
Member
These are just facts. Anything else is cope, the black community is ruthless in this regard. Interracial politics is real af, who can deny this?
Aaronology
Member
Two things.
First, if we're speaking of genetics, African American "in the historical sense" would define a person of some indeterminate amount of African and European ancestry. Over a quarter of the average African American genome is European.
Exactly How Black Is Black America?
http://www.theroot.com/exactly-how-black-is-black-america-1790895185
(note: I had this link on hand not because of this topic, but from having researched my own family's history. Like the author, my g-g-grandfather was Irish.)
Secondly, African American "in the historical sense" would have been just about anyone black enough to not pass, and even then, regardless of their amount of European ancestry. This isn't South Africa. In any time period in this country Barack Obama would be considered black, full stop, if for nothing else other than his appearance.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Well, that sure backfired on them
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