Can I say you have been one of my main forces that keeps me focused on getting Seasonals out this year? Thank you a lot for that.
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Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|
- Thread starter AngmarsKing701
- Start date
Can I say you have been one of my main forces that keeps me focused on getting Seasonals out this year? Thank you a lot for that.
I haven't written much since the first year of university, but I used to spend A LOT of time writing as a kid. I have all these ideas I jot down planning to write them but I never get around to it. I want to change that, I think I will take some of my ideas that I think could be fit into a short story and just start writing. I know it'll be a long road of self-improvement and set backs but my end goal is to get something -anything- non-academic published. Wish me luck GAF.
I might post some work on GAF once I get to writing, even if I know it will be terrible. Constructive criticism is important.
I might post some work on GAF once I get to writing, even if I know it will be terrible. Constructive criticism is important.
Nappuccino
Member
So . . . instead of writing any more of the the Hubba Hubba challenge, I got into a big argument with a friend of mine about the change in Amazon Unlimited payments. We're both writers, but her POV is that these changes are better for readers (less crap written and reviews bought to abuse the system--basically she argued that it was too difficult to find good books/writers and that this would clear things up), while I'm of the mindset that it's going to be harder for any writers to get paid now.
I imagine this will settle down in a few months and we'll find out how it really is in practice, but ideally they'd have some tiers for book length and pay per page until a deeper percentage into the book (say 50, or 60) where the author gets the full borrow fee. However, I have no idea how long it will take for Amazon's analysts to decide if they need to iterate again, or if this method is fine.
I'll admit that knowing this change-over tarnished my motivation for the Hubba Hubba challenge and I've just been writing straight lit-fic to send to journals (and through my school's workshop) instead.
How's the change-over looking after about a week for you all?
edit: Also, congrats H.P! Glad to see they want to keep you around
edit: One bit of feedback I've gotten on my latest story is that the "Teens don't talk like teens. They allude too much to be believable for their age." One of the central conflicts in this story is that the main character doesn't have a good understanding on what happened between two friends, so these allusions are somewhat key to the story (well, in my opinion lol). Where all do you fall on the "believable for x age group" as writers? Do you try to keep it exact, or do you let room for some artistic merit / "These are just smart teens who do allude" side of things? I guess this is a bit different for anyone writing literary fiction vs YA or something else.
I imagine this will settle down in a few months and we'll find out how it really is in practice, but ideally they'd have some tiers for book length and pay per page until a deeper percentage into the book (say 50, or 60) where the author gets the full borrow fee. However, I have no idea how long it will take for Amazon's analysts to decide if they need to iterate again, or if this method is fine.
I'll admit that knowing this change-over tarnished my motivation for the Hubba Hubba challenge and I've just been writing straight lit-fic to send to journals (and through my school's workshop) instead.
How's the change-over looking after about a week for you all?
edit: Also, congrats H.P! Glad to see they want to keep you around
edit: One bit of feedback I've gotten on my latest story is that the "Teens don't talk like teens. They allude too much to be believable for their age." One of the central conflicts in this story is that the main character doesn't have a good understanding on what happened between two friends, so these allusions are somewhat key to the story (well, in my opinion lol). Where all do you fall on the "believable for x age group" as writers? Do you try to keep it exact, or do you let room for some artistic merit / "These are just smart teens who do allude" side of things? I guess this is a bit different for anyone writing literary fiction vs YA or something else.
Nappuccino
Member
Assuming readers go through the whole book it's pretty close, yeah. According to the guardian, a reader has to read roughly 220 pages to give the author $1.30. Under the original method, a reader only had to get through 22 pages of the same book.
I don't know how many readers actually finish books they start though. If game completion scores are any indication . . .
Nappuccino
Member
I guess I'd just be surprised if most books from any author get read to completion by most readers. I know that I'm horrible at finishing books the instant I lose interest / get distracted / feel in a different mood the next day. Maybe I'm projecting on the average reader too much.
edit: The Guardian estimates about $.006 per page at the current rate. Which honestly isn't that bad if your readers read the whole book.
Nappuccino
Member
Do borrows only last for a day? If you don't read it all, do you lose the borrow for that month? I've never used that feature and I guess that's something I hadn't really thought about.
Plasticine
Member
I honestly have no idea how to read the KNEP report. Apparently readers suddenly decided to read 400+ pages of my books today. Great. That's awesome. My books aren't just sitting unread on somebody's Kindle.
I just have no idea what that actually means for me.
How much I'm getting paid. Do I have a way of finding out how the stats break down? I can see the total pages read for each book, but I can't figure out how that translates into pages per readers. If I understand things correctly, the more pages a single reader reads, the higher the royalty rate. I just don't see a way to figure out if the 291 pages of my first book were read by two readers, three readers or a dozen readers. Or am I totally wrong about that part?
It's very annoying. The older system really made much more sense and felt much more transparent. But I guess Amazon has to try and thin out the smut market somehow.
I just have no idea what that actually means for me.
How much I'm getting paid. Do I have a way of finding out how the stats break down? I can see the total pages read for each book, but I can't figure out how that translates into pages per readers. If I understand things correctly, the more pages a single reader reads, the higher the royalty rate. I just don't see a way to figure out if the 291 pages of my first book were read by two readers, three readers or a dozen readers. Or am I totally wrong about that part?
It's very annoying. The older system really made much more sense and felt much more transparent. But I guess Amazon has to try and thin out the smut market somehow.
Nappuccino
Member
I think you won't know until the end of the month where they tally up their pool of money to be divided vs your % of read pages out of all pages read for the month.
Plasticine
Member
I'm pretty sure you can borrow a book for as long as you want. You just can't borrow more than one at a time.
So will I get a detailed breakdown of reader and page numbers read? Honestly, I don't expect to make much of anything. I just think greater detail in the reader stats would be more valuable to me in the long run than the $4 or $5 I earn.Right now, they're just abstract numbers that don't really mean anything.
Hey uh,
A plot kind of hit me all at once. There's details to work out but I know the core. Problem is it's fairly heavy on the romance. And I've got not even the remotest sense of this. My writing experience is with super wacky shit usually and this is easily the most grounded thing I've ever come up with.
So, I'm asking if there's any good solid romance sub-plots you guys could recommend to help me make sure I get this...vaguely well done. I've ordered the Time Traveler's Wife, which I meant to read anyway so that was a freebie.
A plot kind of hit me all at once. There's details to work out but I know the core. Problem is it's fairly heavy on the romance. And I've got not even the remotest sense of this. My writing experience is with super wacky shit usually and this is easily the most grounded thing I've ever come up with.
So, I'm asking if there's any good solid romance sub-plots you guys could recommend to help me make sure I get this...vaguely well done. I've ordered the Time Traveler's Wife, which I meant to read anyway so that was a freebie.
Nappuccino
Member
Ah, that makes sense. I'm having a difficult time understanding the 200pg vs 400pg a day concern, unless they're thinking that readers will avoid longer books just to read more shorter ones. I'd be interested in hearing that explained with a bit more depth because it's going over my head at the moment.
I actually have no idea. I'd guess you get what you're already seeing. I can see why Amazon doesn't want to give too much information away, but a bit more than just pages read (say, for example, what page readers stop reading at--or the sections they take the longest to get through a la Netflix's model) would be really cool.
I'll try to think of some suggestions, but off the top of my head, I'd say the biggest thing about a believable romance is to help the audience understand why the characters are interested in each other. Too often romances feel as if the author thinks "Well, there's one boy and one girl, of course they'll fall for each other!" Obviously, what one character considers relationship material will be different from another, but if an audience understands the character's critera, they'll be more along for the ride. The other option is to write the romantic interest you think your audience would be most likely to want, and go from there. I think it depends on the book you're writing, the audience you have in mind, and what that audience is reading for.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Did that guy I told to go somewhere like a cafe with a notebook ever get his problem solved?
That's the thing, at this point I just want get the story down and then work out who I'm writing it for. That is kind of clean up to me, the first pass edit. I've just got a base plot and a non-linear narrative structure in my head and I'm scared I'll fuck it up because it's honestly probably the best idea I've had so far. I just hate that I feel super out of my own depth here.
Nappuccino
Member
In that case, I'd say just go for it! Odds are the characters will start informing the relationship and the action as you begin to flesh them out. I'm curious about the non-linear structure. Are events going to be shown out of time from each other? I'm curious why you'd like to do that. I've done some of this in short stories, but generally just to juxtapose elements, themes, or story beats, with other ones. What impact do you want this to have on your audience.
(Sometimes asking a direct question makes for someone feeling like they should be on the defense, and I should state that's not by goal, I'm just curious in the delivery method you're choosing
)In that case, I'd say just go for it! Odds are the characters will start informing the relationship and the action as you begin to flesh them out. I'm curious about the non-linear structure. Are events going to be shown out of time from each other? I'm curious why you'd like to do that. I've done some of this in short stories, but generally just to juxtapose elements, themes, or story beats, with other ones. What impact do you want this to have on your audience.
(Sometimes asking a direct question makes for someone feeling like they should be on the defense, and I should state that's not by goal, I'm just curious in the delivery method you're choosing
So the feeling that I'm really gunning for is a conversation between friends. A group. Events are shown through story tellers and not all are explicitly linked, but all contribute if you get what I mean, though that aspect I am toying with. When I talk about stuff with my friends, a lot of the time it's out of order, for example:
"X and Y happened to me, so I did Z."
"Z? Why not I?"
"Oh, because J and K happened beforehand."
Just expand out this into bigger mini stories that really are the narrative, hanging on the backbone that is the conversational structure. The idea is that you end up feeling in the group yourself, its a method of immersion almost. I hope.
I've studied books that have done it years ago (though I was 16 haha), so I'm quite nervous about the mini story story structure thing. I'll need beta readers a plenty lol.
Nappuccino
Member
Ah, very cool! I like the idea of this in general, though I'll warn you that dialogue heavy situations can weigh the narrative down. But I think having chapters start with dialogue and drift into more traditional narrative (either after a white break or using the dialog like an epithet might work well). Basically, one of the concerns with dialogue is that it often lacks the actual action of the events--at the very least it'll be something to be mindful off if you do focus on keeping the story within their conversations. Just my two cents
Ah, very cool! I like the idea of this in general, though I'll warn you that dialogue heavy situations can weigh the narrative down. But I think having chapters start with dialogue and drift into more traditional narrative (either after a white break or using the dialog like an epithet might work well). Basically, one of the concerns with dialogue is that it often lacks the actual action of the events--at the very least it'll be something to be mindful off if you do focus on keeping the story within their conversations. Just my two cents
Yeah I was thinking of have them switch narrator in a very obvious fashion so I'm not weighed down by dialogue.
It's scary though, I mean I've written short things and never properly attempted something big like this and then throwing the curveballs that I for some reason I have to throw in lol. It's gonna be a crazy few months.
Nappuccino
Member
I just finished the final draft of my first book! It ended up a little over 100k words (it's in Brazilian Portuguese).
Holy crap, I almost cried when I was done, haha. I hadn't written the epilogue before today, I could feel my heart swelling when I settled on the final sentences and typed them. I didn't think I would feel like that, but it really was like saying goodbye to people that lived in my head for around three years.
Sooo much revising... I basically had to rewrite this thing 4 times (2 of those from scratch), but, minor corrections and alterations aside, this is it. I'll see how things develop from here before I talk about it anymore, but I'm currently getting it in the hands of people for feedback. I'm excited.
Nice! If you manage to get published (or if you self-publish it) give me a shout. I'd love to read some stuff made by gafers, but unfortunately I can't find their stuff for sale here in Brazil.
EDIT: almost forgot: Congratulations, H.Protagonist! I wish you great success! Keep rockin'! o/
AngmarsKing701
Member
Is there a Brazilian Amazon store? Is Ahvarra available on it? I guess I've never been quite sure outside of US, UK and Canada.Nice! If you manage to get published (or if you self-publish it) give me a shout. I'd love to read some stuff made by gafers, but unfortunately I can't find their stuff for sale here in Brazil.
EDIT: almost forgot: Congratulations, H.Protagonist! I wish you great success! Keep rockin'! o/
Obrigado!
I keep forgetting about the existence of the Brazilian Amazon store, but yes, it exists and Ahvarra is there.
I wish I could buy, but Amazon Brazil is the only Brazilian online store I know that doesn't accept the only payment method I have access at the moment.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Well thank you for confirming its existence in your country!I keep forgetting about the existence of the Brazilian Amazon store, but yes, it exists and Ahvarra is there.
I wish I could buy, but Amazon Brazil is the only Brazilian online store I know that doesn't accept the only payment method I have access at the moment.
I had a great experience with Richard Shealy and SF/F Copyediting. He works for many of the major SFF publishers, and did a great job on my book. He's specifically a copyeditor, however, and won't make any content edits outside of continuity errors, etc.
http://sffcopyediting.com
Holy shitballs I just spent 8 hours reworking the core concept for the plot until its at a place where I can actually work with it properly.
When I say reworking, I mean a healthy mix of pacing up and down the room, staring at walls and talking to myself.
I did it though.
Tommorow: Words!
When I say reworking, I mean a healthy mix of pacing up and down the room, staring at walls and talking to myself.
I did it though.
Tommorow: Words!
Thanks for the recommendation! I will look into his services!
I've used Anne Victory for some editing, she's amazing and I love working with her, but she's expensive and not always available. http://victoryediting.com/
I've also used Red Adept editing, but only for proofreading and copyediting, they were very professional and seemed to catch my comma infractions. http://www.redadeptediting.com/
Fidelis Hodie
Infidelis Cras
Just crossed the 50k word mark for Derek Agons 2. Could not be more excited. It's amazing to finally write scenes and things I planned out so many years ago. I really want the first draft done by the summer, I think it's super possible. Stayed up till 4am writing, couldn't shut my brain off to sleep even though I had work.
AngmarsKing701
Member
That's great news!
I'm about halfway behind you (25k words) on my Ahvarra sequel, but a friend of mine who does some editing is editing a chapter or two behind me, so in some sense I'm hoping I can have this done and edited by the spring. Looking for roughly 75k words for this one.
Fidelis Hodie
Infidelis Cras
That's a pretty awesome idea, seems like a good streamline. I have so much of this series in my head/ outlined out, I don't think I could have someone edit behind me without as much knowledge of where I want to go. I may ask my little sister if she's up to it since she's the only one. I have no real rush, but I'd love to get it out next febuary (that'd make 2 years since the first book). I want to do a complete rebranding going forward though art wise so I'd still have a lot of marketing make up costs to do. We'll see, one step at a time lol. Gotta' finish this one first.
I'm kind of hoping I hit 90k words this time (first book was 77k), just to see if I can. Not too worried about it. Gotta' just write it out and its word count is its word count.
AngmarsKing701
Member
First one was 122k after cutting almost 60k based on feedback. Lots of stuff that my writing group basically said was just too much exposition. This one I'm writing in first person perspective to try something different so I expect the story to be shorter.
March will be the 2-year anniversary so yeah I'd love to have a new book out every other year.
Fidelis Hodie
Infidelis Cras
Me too. With everything else life throws at us, every other year feels amazing. I hope I can get it done. 112k sounds so crazy and cool to me, though I'm more just thinking about the amount and the personal achievement of writing that much. I wish I had more time to actually read other's works. Too focused on myself. I've been reading the first wheel of time book for a year now, haha.
show me your skeleton
Member
i feel very amateurish asking this but has anyone successfully transcribed from first person perspective to third? my story is in third person but i wrote a bit of character development that i'm happy with that is in first. how do you transform an inner dialogue to something else and still deliver the same info. to the reader?
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
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Conkersbadfurday
Member
That's fucked up. All the rejections I get just make me want to get drunk, not harm anyone. But I'm not insane so there's that.
Also, the synopsis of the horror story she refused to publish sounded pretty rad. I'd read something stupidly dark like that.
AngmarsKing701
Member
A lot of people are dbags. This is the basic tenet of survival I use when driving or interacting with other humans face to face.
Third person third person third person third person third person third person third person third person third person third person third person.
First person first person first person first person first person, he though.
Like this?
Conkersbadfurday
Member
I'm a bit over 40k words into this story now. Around halfway through, I think. I have the next few sequences planned out, though I ended this last section with what could turn into a relationship subplot. Nothing wrong with that, though I was hoping to do a bit of a timeskip and now I kinda have to worry about that.
Because I can't just go, "oh, and they started dating during the week too" since that really wouldn't work with this character. He'd be awkward and strange about it all.
But I also need to teach him a few more spells and introduce him to some villains. Right now, it's been him vs himself and him in the spooky library, but the owners gotta show up. Been putting that off for too long.
not sure how to proceed, because I spent the last maybe 20 pages with him in school, interacting with the place now that he's on antidepressants and has a slightly different world view, and I'm afriad it might come off as a slog. The story is probably the most interesting when it's supernatural, not when it's high school.
Because I can't just go, "oh, and they started dating during the week too" since that really wouldn't work with this character. He'd be awkward and strange about it all.
But I also need to teach him a few more spells and introduce him to some villains. Right now, it's been him vs himself and him in the spooky library, but the owners gotta show up. Been putting that off for too long.
not sure how to proceed, because I spent the last maybe 20 pages with him in school, interacting with the place now that he's on antidepressants and has a slightly different world view, and I'm afriad it might come off as a slog. The story is probably the most interesting when it's supernatural, not when it's high school.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I don't know why, but every time I read this I think they have a sugar daddy and the fact they are part of two people not allowed to take a submissive tone really cracks me up. But yeah, not a good or healthy response to any form of rejection.
Nappuccino
Member
Maybe plant the seeds of the subplot and, near the start of the time-jump he's finally acting on them?
show me your skeleton
Member
Glad to help.
But please, please, take no offense, but this is very basic stuff, which makes it sound like you don't read many books. I'm telling you this because I was in a similar situation 4 years ago, when I decided to write. But how was I supposed to write a book if I don't even know how a book is made? Then I decided to buy one book to see how it goes. I needed to take that mysterious urge to write out of my chest. But that "first" book wasn't from the genre I was looking for, and then I bought a second one, and now I almost don't have where to keep all of them. This happened because I wasn't raised around books. I've never received that from my family (I don't blame them, because they weren't raised around books too, just like most of the people of my country, unfortunately), which is kind of sad culturally (and that explains a lot of shit about this place) and personally, because I could be a much better writer that I am currently at the age of 30. So if you, just like me, wasn't raised around books and now have this out-of-nothing-necessity to write a story, I wholeheartedly recommend you to read as many books as you can before you try that. Surely it's good to put on the paper all your ideas before you forget it all (trust me, you will). Later you can write it properly. And don't hesitate to ask for help here if you need. We are here to support each other.
Also, take a look at Orson Scott Card's Elements of Fiction Writing - Characters & Viewpoint. It's very helpful for understanding voice, point-of-view, etc.
show me your skeleton
Member
Glad to help.
But please, please, take no offense, but this is very basic stuff, which makes it sound like you don't read many books. I'm telling you this because I was in a similar situation 4 years ago, when I decided to write. But how was I supposed to write a book if I don't even know how a book is made? Then I decided to buy one book to see how it goes. I needed to take that mysterious urge to write out of my chest. But that "first" book wasn't from the genre I was looking for, and then I bought a second one, and now I almost don't have where to keep all of them. This happened because I wasn't raised around books. I've never received that from my family (I don't blame them, because they weren't raised around books too, just like most of the people of my country, unfortunately), which is kind of sad culturally (and that explains a lot of shit about this place) and personally, because I could be a much better writer that I am currently at the age of 30. So if you, just like me, wasn't raised around books and now have this out-of-nothing-necessity to write a story, I wholeheartedly recommend you to read as many books as you can before you try that. Surely it's good to put on the paper all your ideas before you forget it all (trust me, you will). Later you can write it properly. And don't hesitate to ask for help here if you need. We are here to support each other.
nah it's cool! i am a terrible reader, though i am trying to change that. i have, foolishly, decided that some big massive epic thing is the first thing that i'll write and i imagine it will fall apart but it's okay, i'll pull something out of the rubble and glue it together eventually!
my plan is to steam ahead, keep writing and polish it off through many, many, many rewrites.
or pay someone to write it for me.
thanks for this also, going to give it a read. god this reading thing is hard.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
So I think I'm breaking some odds here if it's like 1% of queries that get followed up on. Got another person that wants some chapters. Not the whole thing, but the first five chapters is a sizable chunk.
Should I mention that another agent is looking at my work when I send her these chapters? If yes, how should I go about it?
Should I mention that another agent is looking at my work when I send her these chapters? If yes, how should I go about it?
Hmm. I was either going to do this or have him be wishywashy throughout the time jump and act on them when it's over. Still not sure yet, but I might go with this plan since it feels less like I"m putting shit on literal hold.
from what i understand, just send those chapters - it's a partial request - and there's no need to let her know that other agents are looking at it unless she requested exclusivity (and in which case you'd then let her know it's impossible since others have requested partial/full already).
Going from here, you'd need to notify other agents IF one of those looking at your work offers representation, at which point you'd politely notify the others that you have a rep ready to go so I'd be grateful if you could do it in 2 weeks, etc etc.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
Well, agent one has had my manuscript for almost three weeks now...I dunno. You're probably right.
Like, I feel if i tell her someone else is looking at it too, she'll be more invested, but she could also just go, "eh fuck it" and not care as much. I guess since she doesn't want the whole thing though, it might be best to not mention it.
I'll see what others say before I send out the email though. :3
Edit: Sent. Followed your advice Dresden. Stressing over every little thing again becuase tha'ts what I do, but oh well.
Are we allowed to cross-post writing samples for critique?
I've submitted an entry to the latest creative writing challenge, but if anyone in this thread has time to kill and wouldn't mind reading a short story, I would love to get some feedback.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11549963/Rink.pdf
I've submitted an entry to the latest creative writing challenge, but if anyone in this thread has time to kill and wouldn't mind reading a short story, I would love to get some feedback.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11549963/Rink.pdf