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[ashmountains]

Writing-GAF, what's your editing process like?

I'm sitting on a shitty but completed first draft, and any pointers would be cool.

 

[aidan]

Writing-GAF, what's your editing process like?

I'm sitting on a shitty but completed first draft, and any pointers would be cool.

I've come to visualize my story writing and revision process in a way that mimics assembling a person. It's weird, but hear me out.

First Draft (Create Skeleton): Laying out the bones of the story, discovering the nooks and crannies of the characters. Not much concern for language or readability. Holes are okay.
Second Draft (Add fat & muscle): Fix plot inconsistencies, fill in holes, flesh out characters/motivations/plot developments. This draft is usually longer than the first draft.
Third Draft (Add personality): Smooth out language, add dialogue, push at all the little niggling things that stand out as feeling off storywise. This draft is usually a bit shorter than the second draft, roughly the same length as the first draft.
Fourth Draft (Hit the gym): Cut, cut, cut. Trim off all the excess words and superfluous crap that I've added through the various revisions. Make the story as lean as possible without taking away from the intended effect. Tidy language.
Fifth Draft (Suit & Tie): Copy edit.

I usually have beta readers look at the first draft, which is where it's useful to see their opinion about the plot, character motivations, problematic story elements, etc., and then the third draft, with instructions to point out every single boring word in the story.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Writing-GAF, what's your editing process like?

I'm sitting on a shitty but completed first draft, and any pointers would be cool.

Realize that first drafts are supposed to be shit. It's why they need to be edited.

Realize that second drafts are supposed to be shit. It's why you never stop at a second draft.

Barring that, just go. Set a pace and take it as fast/slow as you want. Don't be afraid to make changes. You can always revert back to an older draft.

If you're curious, i did a depressing, introspective little blog post about my first round of editing on my current book. I'm now on my third round and fuck does it get better. I mean, the novel still needs some big work, but it's night and day from when I started.

Editing is slow. Take baby steps. You'll get your project to where it needs to be.

https://conkersblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/27/on-editing-my-second-novel/

 

[DD]

Hey guys, I don't post here very often, but I just want to say two things: 1 - you guys are awesome. 2 - I finally finished the first version of my first book, with 197 pages. Now I'll have to edit it to the bones, add stuff, cut stuff, but damn, it feels awesome! So thank you, guys. All of you!

 

[AngmarsKing701]

Hey guys, I don't post here very often, but I just want to say two things: 1 - you guys are awesome. 2 - I finally finished the first version of my first book, with 197 pages. Now I'll have to edit it to the bones, add stuff, cut stuff, but damn, it feels awesome! So thank you, guys. All of you!

Congrats!

 

[DD]

Congrats!

Thanks, bro!

 

[Soulfire]

Finishing that first draft, especially if it's your first book, is pretty awesome. Congrats on hitting that milestone.

 

[Crimson_Justice]

Congrats, DD! You better celebrate.

 

[aidan]

Tad Williams just sent out a recent newsletter and he wrote something about first drafts that seems very applicable to our earlier discussion:

Dan Harmon, the guy who created COMMUNITY, is (like me) a very structural writer. He refers to first drafts as “spit drafts”, saying that you should basically get it all down in terms of plot and suchlike and make sure it works before you try writing the jokes and adding character moments. Terry Pratchett always said something similar -- “The first draft is just you (the writer) telling yourself the story."

Something to chew on, at least.

 

[DD]

Finishing that first draft, especially if it's your first book, is pretty awesome. Congrats on hitting that milestone.

Congrats, DD! You better celebrate.

Thank you, folks!

I do kind of feel great, like accomplishing something, which is not something I feel very often. =B

Tad Williams just sent out a recent newsletter and he wrote something about first drafts that seems very applicable to our earlier discussion:
Something to chew on, at least.

I'll probably chose that route on future projects. What I did was to write the thing the best way as possible, as if it was the final version. Now I see that it was kind of worthless effort, since I'll have to edit the shit out of it.

Thank you for your constant tips, Aidan!

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Draft three of The Grimoire Library is almost done. My test readers all told me to write an epilogue, and I just finished that. I'm thus far happy, but I'm also a hair drunk. Win/win for now.

Tomorrow I'll go through chapter one again. I'm tempted to go through all my adverbials and cuss words now, but i usually save that for draft four. We'll see.

One of the things I did do this go around was highlight all the points I thought my depressed protag was too annoying/whiny. It was a criticism from my test readers. There are now swaths of purple here and there. I gotta remove some of it. Not all, because clinical depression is a bitch, but enough to not make him seem like a twat. That'll be fun.

Book is currently at 87k words, a full 10k shorter than draft one. Ideally I'll take out at least another thousand before all is said and done.

What I did was to write the thing the best way as possible, as if it was the final version. Now I see that it was kind of worthless effort, since I'll have to edit the shit out of it.

Honestly, I kinda do this. I try not to give too much of a shit about quality, but I also don't just do a barebones plot. I do not add to my stories during the drafting (usually), but instead trim, trim, cut, sheer, and otherwise remove.

Experiment here and there and find what works, I suppose.

Also, congrats on finishing your first book

 

[MilkBeard]

This is a great topic, with a lot of good stuff in the OP. I'll be reading and posting in this thread for the future of my endeavors.

Back a few years ago, I completed the National Novel Writing Month's challenge of 50,000 words in one month. I learned quite a bit about just letting creativity flow. That is one obstacle to getting a novel finished. How to balance the flow and the critic in yourself which wants to go back and edit things constantly.

Anyway, I took some short story classes, and understood the basic fundamentals of a story. I took some time off for a few years, but realized I wanted to get back into the path of writing. I saw some clear improvements from when I started the classes and when I finished. I also saw a style that I can naturally write that created a good response from my classmates.

Good luck everyone on completing your works. Even without success, the act of creative writing is very enjoyable, as one can enjoy and live in the imagined worlds that are only dreamt of.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Yo writinggaf, my favorite gaf, my dad is writing a weird book. I mentioned it before a long while ago, but my dad always kind of wanted to do something with writing but never did. Always a bunch of small little ideas; some good, a lot not so much. But now he's working on a very ambitious one called Flowers a Love Story As the name suggests, it's a love story, but the big twist here is it's told exclusively through flower receipts. It's an ambitious novel and I'm on his behalf asking you to check it out.

 

[H.Protagonist]

Writing-GAF, what's your editing process like?

I'm sitting on a shitty but completed first draft, and any pointers would be cool.

I'm kind of a one-shot when it comes to editing. I'll throw stuff on the page as I feel it and sometimes revisit lines, but after I've laid it all down I usually only give it a once over for flow/tone/grammar. After that I just hand it off to my editor. She'll sometimes suggest cutting things or recommend a change in sentence order, but generally it's in pretty decent shape to start (now, anyway). The beginning of my first book was not so smooth.

I would recommend you giving yours at least two passes, each with a distinct goal. 1) Initial grammar/typo/fiddly pass where you make small adjustments and clean it up, then 2) a whole-picture pass where you assess the flow/shape of the story as a whole and see what needs to be cut or reshaped to better meet your story goals.

After all that, THEN I would consider hiring a professional editor to work it over with a scalpel if you plan on shopping it to agents/publishers in the future. Good professional editors are worth their weight in gold, and they will often reveal some ugly truths about your writing that are hard to swallow at first but ultimately make for a better product (IMO). It's a painful process, but you'd learn a lot from it.

I've been dealing with publishing my first novel for a while now. After months and months of not receiving answers to my emails to publishers, or only receiving polite rejections, the only publisher currently even remotely in the running wrote me back saying they read through the manuscript and want to publish it. They also sent me the editor's notes on my novel, which were mostly paragraphs of negatives that ended on a positive note ("Some of the characters are odd... but that's not a big deal.").

Now I don't want to jinx anything, but this thread helped me and inspired me in a lot of ways during the writing process, and this seems to be heading somewhere, so I decided to share.

*carreychance.gif*

Belated congrats, Reedirect! That's awesome news.

Hey guys, I don't post here very often, but I just want to say two things: 1 - you guys are awesome. 2 - I finally finished the first version of my first book, with 197 pages. Now I'll have to edit it to the bones, add stuff, cut stuff, but damn, it feels awesome! So thank you, guys. All of you!

Well done! More excitement awaits you after you're done editing too. Perhaps treat yourself with some commissioned cover art for your accomplishment? Makes a nice carrot for the sometimes tedious editing phase, and you'll be all set for the shopping it around 3rd phase of the project.

 

[buy teh haloz]

I'll probably chose that route on future projects. What I did was to write the thing the best way as possible, as if it was the final version. Now I see that it was kind of worthless effort, since I'll have to edit the shit out of it.

That's what I do. Yeah you do still have to do a lot of editing, but if that method comes naturally to you I wouldn't consider it worthless.

 

[JeffZero]

Up to 125 pages now. Five chapters out of a projected twenty to twenty-five for the first novel in the planned series. Feels good.

 

[aidan]

After all that, THEN I would consider hiring a professional editor to work it over with a scalpel if you plan on shopping it to agents/publishers in the future. Good professional editors are worth their weight in gold, and they will often reveal some ugly truths about your writing that are hard to swallow at first but ultimately make for a better product (IMO). It's a painful process, but you'd learn a lot from it.

Yes! This! Doubly so if you're planning to self-publish your work.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Draft three of The Grimoire Library is now finished. It's currently sitting at 87,131 words, a full 10k shorter than when I finished the first draft.

I still kinda volley back and forth between liking it and thinking I'm the worst though

Gonna set it aside for another month before I hit it again for mostly copyedits. I might putz around with a different side plot some more, since there's no real catharsis in its ending. But maybe not.

Did an an epilogue based on feedback. I am very happy about how it turned out.

can't tell how much of this i've already said in this thread. I have so few outlets to talk about writing >_>

 

[Mike M]

Writing-GAF, what's your editing process like?

I'm sitting on a shitty but completed first draft, and any pointers would be cool.

All first drafts are shitty.

I can't speak much for manuscript editing since I'm still pointedly ignoring them in the corner of the room, but I go over my shorts like half a dozen times before showing them to anyone. I'm usually pretty good mechanically and stylistically, but I still have parts that don't read right to me and I frequently find the answer when I throw myself at it daily. This is probably contrary to a lot of writers' advice, but it works for me.

Plus it lets me clean up my copy (which is usually clean to begin with, but you never know.). For every typo that makes it to the final draft, I cut myself.

Yo writinggaf, my favorite gaf, my dad is writing a weird book. I mentioned it before a long while ago, but my dad always kind of wanted to do something with writing but never did. Always a bunch of small little ideas; some good, a lot not so much. But now he's working on a very ambitious one called Flowers a Love Story As the name suggests, it's a love story, but the big twist here is it's told exclusively through flower receipts. It's an ambitious novel and I'm on his behalf asking you to check it out.

Epistolary works are balls hard. Good on him.

 

[super-heated plasma]

I have written a graphic novel . Trouble is, while the whole script is written, the art has yet to be finished. I have only 40 pages actually competed. I have another 30 in the pencil stage, and another 70+ that have'nt even been started. The expense is alot, and thats the main reason its going so slow. So I decided to release it in chapters instead. I've been on this project for years. I know zombies are kind of played out, but I started it this before I knew the Walking Dead existed let alone before TV show was a glimmer in someones eye. I hope I have a different enough twist on the genre to set it apart.

I have the first two chapters up free for a limited time. You can get them on Amazon or Drive Thru comics.

Revolting Chapter One - Kindle

Revolting Chapter Two- Kindle

Revolting Chapter One- Drive Thru Comics

Revolting Chapter Two - DriveThru Comics


www.revoltingbooks.com

Does this count as being published enough to get in the OP? I would really love some feedback and reviews from you guys on the sites themselves if so inclined. The free preview will only be for three days. I really cant wait for this to be complete. I am also writing a traditional novel. Just finishing up the outline now.

thanks!

 

[Woorloog]

I may not manage to work on my fantasy and scifi ideas, but i do occasionally (ie pretty damn rarely but still more often than anything else) write articles/analysis about Battletech things. I figure a 2000-word article in a bit over 3 hours is pretty good.
Now, if i only would find time and energy to write more often...

 

[Soulfire]

For anyone that has their books in KDP select apparently they tweaked some things today. There's now a cap on KENPC at 3000 (meaning that the highest number of pages a book in KDP Select will be given is 3000) they also seem to have done something with how they figure out that number, some people are seeing a decrease in pages and others are seeing an increase. If your books are in KDP select and you don't know how to find that number you can find it by selecting the Promotion and Advertise button for your book on your Amazon bookshelf and scroll down the page.

 

[H.Protagonist]

Yes! This! Doubly so if you're planning to self-publish your work.

Agreed, or at the very least for when handing off to agents. I know with self-publishing people are trying to keep costs down because chances are you're not going to make a mint on a self-published book, but it really makes a noticeable difference in the quality level (I think), and you never know who may give it a chance~

I have written a graphic novel . Trouble is, while the whole script is written, the art has yet to be finished. I have only 40 pages actually competed. I have another 30 in the pencil stage, and another 70+ that have'nt even been started. The expense is alot, and thats the main reason its going so slow. So I decided to release it in chapters instead. I've been on this project for years. I know zombies are kind of played out, but I started it this before I knew the Walking Dead existed let alone before TV show was a glimmer in someones eye. I hope I have a different enough twist on the genre to set it apart.

I have the first two chapters up free for a limited time. You can get them on Amazon or Drive Thru comics.

Revolting Chapter One - Kindle

Revolting Chapter Two- Kindle

Revolting Chapter One- Drive Thru Comics

Revolting Chapter Two - DriveThru Comics


www.revoltingbooks.com

Does this count as being published enough to get in the OP? I would really love some feedback and reviews from you guys on the sites themselves if so inclined. The free preview will only be for three days. I really cant wait for this to be complete. I am also writing a traditional novel. Just finishing up the outline now.

thanks!

I think it qualifies, but might be best to PM AngmarsKing701 to have it added. Congrats on getting some of it up, btw! The quality looks very nice from what I saw of it.

For anyone that has their books in KDP select apparently they tweaked some things today. There's now a cap on KENPC at 3000 (meaning that the highest number of pages a book in KDP Select will be given is 3000) they also seem to have done something with how they figure out that number, some people are seeing a decrease in pages and others are seeing an increase. If your books are in KDP select and you don't know how to find that number you can find it by selecting the Promotion and Advertise button for your book on your Amazon bookshelf and scroll down the page.

Cheers, Soulfire. Would have had no idea. Think mine went down in page count, sadly. Makes no difference to me at the moment, though. I still get random royalty emails from time to time from the challenge that always make me chuckle.

 

[Crash Station]

Finally managed to start the fourth novel. Only bit of non-planning I've done so far is the prologue though. It's been over a year since I finished the third novel, so I'm quite a bit worried I'm not going to be satisfied with this at all, but I'm doing it either way.

 

[TabrisRyu]

Hello Writing gaf!

As of last year I have published a book myself on Amazon, it has been a very revelatory experience. My main obstacle was language. I'm from South America so I natively speak spanish, but I wanted to make my book available in english, so I took the job of translating it.

Everytime I read it I find new grammatical or spelling errors, and it's driving me mad.I'm starting to realize I'm not good enough for the task and I'm going to need a translator for future works.

I have learned that the editing process is as important as the writing, to my dismay.

I'm going to read all the thread now to see what this is all about : p

 

[Reedirect]

A little tidbit from the pre-release chaos of my book. I wasn't a big fan of the proposed cover designs my publisher showed me. They told me that I can get an artist to do it, but any external work would be at my own expense. I'm considering doing this, so I wanted to ask, does anyone here have a recommendation for a good cover artist?

I had non-commercial art done last year and when I offered this to the same guy, he asked 800 dollars for it. It seems a little much, but then again, I have no prior experience with this, so I don't really know.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Mike M]

A little tidbit from the pre-release chaos of my book. I wasn't a big fan of the proposed cover designs my publisher showed me. They told me that I can get an artist to do it, but any external work would be at my own expense. I'm considering doing this, so I wanted to ask, does anyone here have a recommendation for a good cover artist?

I had non-commercial art done last year and when I offered this to the same guy, he asked 800 dollars for it. It seems a little much, but then again, I have no prior experience with this, so I don't really know.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

I haven't personally made use of it, but Reedsy at least looks like a promising resource for finding someone.

 

[Nappuccino]

A little tidbit from the pre-release chaos of my book. I wasn't a big fan of the proposed cover designs my publisher showed me. They told me that I can get an artist to do it, but any external work would be at my own expense. I'm considering doing this, so I wanted to ask, does anyone here have a recommendation for a good cover artist?

I had non-commercial art done last year and when I offered this to the same guy, he asked 800 dollars for it. It seems a little much, but then again, I have no prior experience with this, so I don't really know.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

If you can hold off for a few weeks, I could do something for you. I've put together a few covers for the small press journal I worked on (a few were with pictures I couldn't choose, and a few that I did). I could pm you links to said covers if you like.

 

[Soulfire]

A little tidbit from the pre-release chaos of my book. I wasn't a big fan of the proposed cover designs my publisher showed me. They told me that I can get an artist to do it, but any external work would be at my own expense. I'm considering doing this, so I wanted to ask, does anyone here have a recommendation for a good cover artist?

I had non-commercial art done last year and when I offered this to the same guy, he asked 800 dollars for it. It seems a little much, but then again, I have no prior experience with this, so I don't really know.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

You can find cover artists with a wide range of prices, normally the more you pay the better they are, but that's not always the case. What genre is your book?

 

[Reedirect]

I haven't personally made use of it, but Reedsy at least looks like a promising resource for finding someone.

Thanks, will check it out.

You can find cover artists with a wide range of prices, normally the more you pay the better they are, but that's not always the case. What genre is your book?

Thriller/crime

I could pm you links to said covers if you like.

Sure, I'll take a look and let you know.

 

[Soulfire]

Streetlight Graphics has a good reputation and they seem to be really good at branding if you're writing a series.
Rocking Book Covers is another one I have bookmarked that might work for you.
I haven't used either of these places, but I thought they might fit what you're looking for. Good luck.

 

[Tosyn_88]

I didn't think a thread like this would exist but bless the Op for doing so. It's really great to see plenty people creating things and writing and completing whole books, I have to say I need to get on board with some Gaff folks on here.

I have been writing a sci-fi thriller for about a year now and also illustrating bits about it, it's a bloody ton to do but not doing it isn't an option

 

[Dresden]

Was looking stuff up just now and figured I could post them here too.

this could be nice if you're POC in the UK

The Guardian and 4th Estate BAME prize will be open to black, Asian and minority ethnic writers aged 18 and over and based in the UK. It will be judged by Shukla, Buzzfeed culture editor Bim Adewunmi, Waterstones head of books Melissa Cox, writer Bernardine Evaristo, 4th Estate editor Anna Kelly and Guardian women’s editor Nosheen Iqbal.

Stories can be entered from 29 January at http://www.4thestate.co.uk/B4ME/, with the shortlist announced on 9 May and the winner on 20 June. The winner will receive £1,000 and have their story published on the Guardian books website.

---

And POC Destroy SF:

We’re looking for previously unpublished science fiction short stories of up to 10,000 words, reflective of the issue’s theme, written by writers of colour. Note that there’s a POC Destroy Fantasy issue planned, so the editors of the science fiction issue are going to make some judgement calls about whether a story is science fiction (for some values of “science fiction&#8221. Note also that we will not be asking writers who submit stories to tell us what makes them “people of colour.” We leave that up to your world experience, your conscience, your sense of community, and your sense of fair play.

Our submission period for this special issue will be open until Feb. 19, 2016.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Was looking stuff up just now and figured I could post them here too.

this could be nice if you're POC in the UK



---

And POC Destroy SF:

So The Guardian is the only one that requires you to be a UK citizen right? I didn't see anything mentioning it at the Destroy website.

 

[Dresden]

So The Guardian is the only one that requires you to be a UK citizen right? I didn't see anything mentioning it at the Destroy website.

Ya the second one is open for any nationality.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I might give it a try, though I'm unsure if I can chug out a good story in ten days with no inspiration.

 

[cloudwalking]

A little tidbit from the pre-release chaos of my book. I wasn't a big fan of the proposed cover designs my publisher showed me. They told me that I can get an artist to do it, but any external work would be at my own expense. I'm considering doing this, so I wanted to ask, does anyone here have a recommendation for a good cover artist?

I had non-commercial art done last year and when I offered this to the same guy, he asked 800 dollars for it. It seems a little much, but then again, I have no prior experience with this, so I don't really know.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

A friend of a friend used http://bookcovers.rebeccafrank.design/ for her urban fantasy series and I think her covers came out really nice. Hers are the Ella Summers ones in the first and second row in the photomanipulation portfolio. Not sure if this is the style you're looking for, but it sounds like her experience was positive.

 

[Soulfire]

A friend of a friend used http://bookcovers.rebeccafrank.design/ for her urban fantasy series and I think her covers came out really nice. Hers are the Ella Summers ones in the first and second row in the photomanipulation portfolio. Not sure if this is the style you're looking for, but it sounds like her experience was positive.

She's on my wish list, I'm really hoping to be able to afford for her to go back and make new covers for all my books this year.

 

[En-ou]

I get this shit a lot from even friends who are super-supportive. It drives me nuts. Sucks the air right out of whatever I'm doing. "Ok so there's this ship and they're traveling around the galaxy doing blah blah blah doesn't that sound fun?" "Eh, sounds like Firefly." "FFFFUUUUUUU"

but then sometimes after pitching they say - reminds me of dante's inferno...and I smile. because although I have heard of dante's inferno I haven't read it, nor did it make any appearance in my head when I was thinking up my story, so I took it as a compliment.

 

[Reedirect]

Streetlight Graphics has a good reputation and they seem to be really good at branding if you're writing a series.
Rocking Book Covers is another one I have bookmarked that might work for you.
I haven't used either of these places, but I thought they might fit what you're looking for. Good luck.

A friend of a friend used http://bookcovers.rebeccafrank.design/ for her urban fantasy series and I think her covers came out really nice. Hers are the Ella Summers ones in the first and second row in the photomanipulation portfolio. Not sure if this is the style you're looking for, but it sounds like her experience was positive.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll definitely check them out

 

[Dresden]

I might give it a try, though I'm unsure if I can chug out a good story in ten days with no inspiration.

kinda in the same boat. think the deadline might help just hack something out, though, which would be great.

 

[toddhunter]

Had young Toddhunter come to me today (8):

"I want to write more books, but I keep starting one and then just stopping to write something else".

Sunrise...sunset...

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Friend is doing a DnD thing with his bro and some other people, and we got to talking about making characters last night. He lives in Cali and I'm in MN, so it's not like I can join in, but hey, character creation is character creation!

So he's the DM and is bitching about the new people and their inability to make characters. "They're all writers," he said, "yet they suck at this. It makes no sense."

So I farted out a character in like twenty seconds and maybe kinda want to write a story about him now >_>

Thigwig the gnome, who sucks at gnomish things! What plots could he get into D:

So I might have a short story to do before going back to draft four of my novel.

 

[Dresden]

Thigwig the gnome, who sucks at gnomish things!

He's tall?

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

He's tall?

You know, I never thought about that. He might as well be though. Tall and a completely shit tinkerer.

He wants to paint flowers. Sometimes really close-up ones like that George O'Keef woman. His friends think he is obscene and a bit cracked in the head

 

[Soulfire]

The Flower Obsessed Gnome and his Non-Tinkering Tales
I'd at least read the blurb, probably even the sample.

 

[Tosyn_88]

The POC art submissions are great because I'm presently working on exactly something like that but most of the work isn't edited or complete but it definitely exceeds the 10000 word count. I suppose I could jus wait for another opportunity, this work needs more time in the burner

 

[Hop]

Finished my novel.

(Barring any last-minute tweaks, of course. I have until the 26th, then it goes live March 4th.)

From a stumbling NaNoWriMo draft to here. Ended up on the shorter side; 67,000 words, 282 pages. I'll probably look back in a year or two and be embarrassed by the quality, but oh well. Point is: I made something, I put in the effort to improve it, now I have a book that I can point to and say "I made that."

...well I can't point to it yet, don't have the proof paperback in, but you know what I mean.

 

[Soulfire]

Congrats! Love the cover.

 

[Mike M]

That is a pretty great cover.