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Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|
- Thread starter AngmarsKing701
- Start date
It's been canceled.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
He has a point here. People like reviews. I dunno.
I do write them though. Most are long and unpleasant but people send me their books to review anyways.
Podcasts are fun though. I do one on comic books. Good reason to talk to people for an hour while not leaving the house.
Thanks for the help!
Also just a question for everyone. Have you ever changed a characters backstory after you thought up their design? Like for me, I sometimes like to draw a character before I describe them and when doing so for my latest character... I noticed his attire and hair made him look somewhat Japanese (though the story is not on Earth), so I instead made an entire backstory as to why this is. A powerful clan deciding to take their land and secede from their Empire, getting help from a European-esque Kingdom and thus becoming sovereign but also an ally of said Kingdom and thus people from that Kingdom began to go to this new sovereign territory and it became a melting pot. So though the character himself was born in the territory, it was to parents who originally lived in the Kingdom
Why am I explaining this? Well It ended up allowing me to create a conflict that wasn't going to be there with another character I had already made. See, another character is from the Empire the clan seceded from and thus they still harbor a ill feeling towards people from there.
Thought that was kind of interesting.
AngmarsKing701
Member
I tend to jot down a few things for back story, and then yes, depending on where the story takes me, I make adjustments. Even in the book I'm working on, where the back story is a huge part of the story, I had an a-ha! moment and made a monumental Shyamalan twist.
I do not draw my characters, but that's because my artistry would have them all look like this:
Does anyone here have a paid subscription for One Stop For Writers? It claims to have plenty of good resources. I was wondering if anyone here had subscribed and could recommend/not recommend using it.
Writershelpingwriters.net describes it as "the mind behind Scrivener for Windows and the authors of The Emotion Thesaurus collaborated to bring you...an online creative library unlike any other, filled with tools, resources, education, and powerhouse description collections."
I like Scrivener and I know others in the thread use it, too, so I was just curious to see if anyone here had heard of or used this site before.
Writershelpingwriters.net describes it as "the mind behind Scrivener for Windows and the authors of The Emotion Thesaurus collaborated to bring you...an online creative library unlike any other, filled with tools, resources, education, and powerhouse description collections."
I like Scrivener and I know others in the thread use it, too, so I was just curious to see if anyone here had heard of or used this site before.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I also have no artistic skill, and sometimes use character creators for mine to give me a more solid idea of how to describe them, if that makes any sense. Here's one from Dragon Age: Inquisition I used:I do not draw my characters, but that's because my artistry would have them all look like this:
Black Desert's was AMAZING for this. Here's a blind character from the same story:
Nappuccino
Member
Finally getting around to submitting some of my work to the literary presses journals. Only doing about 5 or 6 at a time per story.
I've got stuff floating around at AGNI, Missouri Review, Eleven Eleven, Day One, and Noon. Going to do a second batch for another story tonight or tomorrow. Wish me luck!
I gotta install linux on my chromebook though. Google Chrome tends to freak out just often enough to be annoying as my current exclusive word processor.
I've got stuff floating around at AGNI, Missouri Review, Eleven Eleven, Day One, and Noon. Going to do a second batch for another story tonight or tomorrow. Wish me luck!
I gotta install linux on my chromebook though. Google Chrome tends to freak out just often enough to be annoying as my current exclusive word processor.
AngmarsKing701
Member
Cool idea!
Ah, that is a pretty good idea. Gotta remember this. I can imagine characters down to last details but i i too lack artistic skill.
As a side-note, i'm going to use Kerbal Space Program to conceptualize a spacecraft my scifi idea will have. And perhaps test it too while at it.
Once i have the concept nailed down, i can do some necessary math. Some, not all, i'm not a real designer after all. But enough it should be plausible.
I just need to get my PC fixed...
Good idea, Hope you have luck. Is that press for reviews or for publishing stories?
(What kind of writing do you do, short stories?)
That's very smart!
Also I got to say, as someone who will admit to reading FanFiction there is one thing that will absolutely ruin a story for me. So I'll begin reading a new FanFiction and think: "Alright, this is decently written", until you hit the first dialogue scene and you release they're one of those people. Yes, the people who for some reason decide to include multiple characters speaking in the same goddamn paragraph. I close out the tab instant after that. I hate- HATE when writers do that.
The worst part is that some writers will do it while also making a new paragraph for new dialogue. It's like, they know the correct method but refuse to always follow it. It's not hard! I swear this is like... low level stuff! I'd say most writers know that new dialogue = new paragraph.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I don't know what you mean by that. *shifty eyes*
I honestly don't know though. Like: "line" and "line" on the same line, or like: X said A, Y said B? I'm not familiar with example on this, since I don't regularly read fanfiction. I occasionally humor it, since it's good exercise from the lack of having to come with a diegesis of your own.
I honestly don't know though. Like: "line" and "line" on the same line, or like: X said A, Y said B? I'm not familiar with example on this, since I don't regularly read fanfiction. I occasionally humor it, since it's good exercise from the lack of having to come with a diegesis of your own.
Like for example:
"Hello," she said to the forum man. He raised his
head up from his nap. "Oh hi, who are you?" Then she
speaks. "I am Barb," and she puts out her hand and he grabs it
and shakes it. "Nice to meet you Barb, I'm Billy Bob Joel."
This drives me crazy. It actually drove me crazy to just write it.
Now for another question (which sort of keeps this thread active.)
So in my head of many crazy ideas, one of them has stood out. But I think it's an idea that I think I should write eventually but never published since in a way it would be both fanfiction and at the same time it wouldn't. In a way it follows a similar beginning premise to the game, Star Ocean 3, planet is attack, character manages to escape and finds themselves on an underdeveloped planet. Yet while the idea does follow that, it doesn't exactly continue with the same thing. Essentially the idea is that the "Hero" exists but the story does not follow them. The planet was attacked because the "Hero" and their parents were there but the story follows another individual who was on the planet at the same time and also lands on an undeveloped planet but doesn't get help like the "Hero" does. Then when they eventually find out why the planet was attacked, this character becomes enraged, blaming them for the death of millions.
The story would be known as Hero/Survivor and in a way would be the story of a girl who does not believe themselves a hero but in the journey to find this "Hero", becomes one herself, even if she doesn't realize it. Which comes to head when they finally clash.
So that is why it would be both FanFiction and at the same time not. Because it doesn't share many elements of SO3 in the details. No 4D beings, no MMO-reality plot twist, and all of that stuff. The "Hero" and their companions wouldn't really be anagrams for the games versions and the planet would be different. But- it still has enough similiarites in the set up that I feel like would make it impossible to actually publish. The premise I want to do (Hero exists, but you don't follow the Hero), can still be done in another setting but I really like the setting that it currently is.
So most likely it will just stay an idea or at the very least, I'll write it eventually but leave it forever in a word doc or something.
I found this blog from a writer: http://jamigold.com/2012/03/when-does-fan-fiction-cross-an-ethical-line/
TL;DR: How close can you get to another story before inspiration becomes plagiarism?
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
That's very smart!
Also I got to say, as someone who will admit to reading FanFiction there is one thing that will absolutely ruin a story for me. So I'll begin reading a new FanFiction and think: "Alright, this is decently written", until you hit the first dialogue scene and you release they're one of those people. Yes, the people who for some reason decide to include multiple characters speaking in the same goddamn paragraph. I close out the tab instant after that. I hate- HATE when writers do that.
The worst part is that some writers will do it while also making a new paragraph for new dialogue. It's like, they know the correct method but refuse to always follow it. It's not hard! I swear this is like... low level stuff! I'd say most writers know that new dialogue = new paragraph.
Kay so i get where you're coming from. I seen it used badly too, and it drives me nuts! BUT I have also seen it used well, and have experimented with it a bit myself. As a defense for when it works, it's great for compounding dialogue to a singular purpose within the paragraph rather than an actual conversation. I guess as a quick example:
Just a quick shitty example, but I think it gets the point across. Who the girls are, and who they're speaking to isn't important, but it's bundled together to give the gossip their saying a tangible thump It's one entity, so that the quick cut to Alice crying is more effective. I could also break it up as a conversation, but I don't think it would work for what I'm trying to do, because the actual flow of conversation isn't so much as important as the bundle of gossip.
Not saying everything that does it is like that, but i wanted to offer a quick defense in regards to how I think a writer could make something like that work.
See that's interesting and I see what you mean. Though I'd argue many writers who do it don't use it like that. However I didn't think to use it like that. That does make sense if they're just no-named side characters all talking in succession.
Nah, not usually. It's just when it comes to writing dialogue that I can get annoyed. It's frustrating when you read a story and 3 different main characters speak in a single paragraph. It starts to feel like jobbled messes.
Writing has flexibility and even as shown above it can work. However just because something can work doesn't mean it always is. A lot of FanFic writers stick all of their dialogue into massive paragraphs with many characters speaking and it becomes a hassle to read because it's far easier to lose track of whose talking.
Ah.. so you can figure out blind quotes.
Authors make choices that fly over our heads sometimes
I actually see where you're coming from.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
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Freeza Under The Shower
Member
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Nappuccino
Member
I've gotten reviews published before (all for free though . . .), but I'm studying fiction. So far I've had a bit of luck getting fiction published, but I haven't sent anything out since last year. I tend to hang on to my babies, which is the worst "let's get published" strategy out there lol.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I mean my proliferation strategy hasn't really been working out well either, so who knows what works at this point?
I mean there's a difference between a writer jamming dialogue together because they are inexperienced and don't know any better versus a writer doing it deliberately for some specific purpose.
Like, the reason for a ton of overly broad writing advice ("show don't tell!" "kill your darlings!" "write what you know!") is that beginning writers often make certain classes of mistake, such as not realizing that showing instead of telling can be desirable (or even possible), or getting stuck on a neat thing that doesn't actually work for the story, or not thinking about their personal lived experiences and how to incorporate them into their writing, and the overly broad writing advice can help with that. At a certain point, that advice can become a hindrance if they stick too closely to it, but it starts out useful, which is why it keeps getting eternally repeated.
I think, to the poster's point, that there are a lot of beginning writers in fanfic and that something like lumped dialogue is vastly more likely to be a mistake than a deliberate flouting of convention towards some greater purpose. And I think many writing mistakes are likely to co-occur in beginning writers, such that the lumped dialogue means it's likely that many other aspects of the story will be poorly done. So yeah, seems legit to me to drop a story like that given that kind of mistake.
You define it as a mistake, and presume, that you carry your audience with you. If anything it's a more messy style. I say this taking into account the beginner author's skill.
I guess you are right though. More likely to find a novice than a James Joyce in fan fiction eh Cyan?
Nappuccino
Member
Have you tried nepotism?
Well isn't that something. I'm glad I replied to this post. Do you have any more examples?
I do want to. Take speech for instance. Standard grammar is what it is, but dialects are not necessarily 'wrong.'
This is. is an error.
I'm an idiot, Ashes said. Cyan disagreed. You are a colossal idiot, he said. Ashes sighed. She found that she could not disagree.
I think the paragraph immediately above is readable. And I don't see actual errors in it. I don't have a problem with people straying away from the norm. And I personally would not think it was an error even if it were not deliberate - hopefully you agree it was deliberate in my case above if only being for demonstration purposes.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I'm with Cyan here. I'm more for weird writings than most people, but I also think you kind of got to earn the right. Cormac McCarthy's The Road doesn't have any god damn quotation marks. if it was a novice, most people would assume it was a mistake, but obviously Cormac McCarthy must know what he's doing, right? Not trying to say only high profile people are allowed to be weird, but you have to know the rules first before you break them. And I think the biggest indicator of something like that is if it works. Does it read well, and is the meaning getting across? If not, then it doesn't work, regardless of what the writer's true motivations were.
As i see people who've been published in high profile places get published again in the places I got rejected to, I can't help but think "I bet that's cause you were in some fancy place, so of course THIS story must be good." But I try really really hard to steer away from that. Not a healthy or good attitude to have.
Nappuccino
Member
I tend to think of style as something purposeful and controlled somewhat consistent (broken for effect, but not on a whim), even if part of that style is allowing for the uncontrolled. Editing and revision determines style as much as the initial process of writing, imo.
There are definite cases of nepotism . . . but most often it's simpley that they are known, so editors seek them out. They also have agents who pitch stories for them to major magazines, like The New Yorker etc., which helps.
edit: one of the literary journals I sent off to, Noon, has a ton of repeat authors. Weirdly, in the back, they note how many times authors have appeared in Noon before. I'm not sure if this is because Noon is only semi-known, or because the editor and owner basically picks the same people over and over again because she knows their names. I'm kind of curious to find out if I make the cut.
@Flower: For a second there, I thought you were proposing a class system of some kind.
Whilst I agree that when we review something, we can say, that such and such would have been better off sticking to convention. I would never say they were incorrect. Describe them as a noob. or what have you.
It often happens that authors of different calibres come to use things for effect or write in a certain way for the same reason before each has seen the others work. I've written prose without speechmarks long before I read McCarthy. And he has certainly never read anything I've written. And yet I came to learn that we use it for similar reasons and were influenced via similar avenues.
Edit: That makes it sound like McCarthy's prose has no influence on me. Which is incorrect. But seriously speech quotes are no big deal. With good enough prose* you should be able to do away with needless marks and reduce writing to its bare naked form.
*read taking care
Whilst I agree that when we review something, we can say, that such and such would have been better off sticking to convention. I would never say they were incorrect. Describe them as a noob. or what have you.
It often happens that authors of different calibres come to use things for effect or write in a certain way for the same reason before each has seen the others work. I've written prose without speechmarks long before I read McCarthy. And he has certainly never read anything I've written. And yet I came to learn that we use it for similar reasons and were influenced via similar avenues.
Edit: That makes it sound like McCarthy's prose has no influence on me. Which is incorrect. But seriously speech quotes are no big deal. With good enough prose* you should be able to do away with needless marks and reduce writing to its bare naked form.
*read taking care
I am, like I do every year since 2010.
Do you have much of an outline before you start usually?
I'm going to try a couple of brain storming sessions over the next few weeks just to have a bunch of ideas ready to go. If I try and make it too organised or detailed I start to hit blocks and get demotivated for some reason.
Yep!!! Always, or else I can't do it!!!=O
Nappuccino
Member
I probably won't be doing NaNoWriMo, but I'll have a bunch of writing project going for classes anyway lol.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
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FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
Tell me about it :/ Though i did retroactively finish my old nano of two-three years ago(came out to like 80,000 words or so) this summer. I ended up adding the 50,000 words, So I am feeling more confident than usual about this year. Though I should also start planning things a bit I guess.
FlowersisBritish
fleurs n'est pas britannique
I've also thought about that. My friend really thinks I should do a collection of fairy tails for adults or something. Might be neat.
Yeah that would be cool.
That's difficult to say. Books are made of books. And fan fiction is the latest to tow the line between inspiration and plagiarism. And profiteering corrupts the innocence of inspiration like no other.
Some people might not like you labelling it Star Ocean fan fiction; seems like you're being open and honest; but others will see it as a way to gain traction with Star Ocean fans. Or at least to draw attention to your self using the brand. In your case specifically, neither of the latter two accusations/assumptions appears true to my mind.
Nobody'll care unless you hit the big time anyway, and only then Star Ocean fans might call it a rip off. To my mind, your pitch seems unrelated enough to the Star Oceans IP. I know you're intending to write purely for your self, but who knows, Star Oceans fans might want to read it, so why hold back?
Sorry for the late reply. Had to think about it for a few days.
Yep already prepping.
Conkersbadfurday
Member
the book I thought would be perfect for Nano I'm writing now. I hit a 100 pages in a month without freaking out too much, so I guess I'm glad I didn't save it to freak out over because I'd have to damn near triple my output. Just doesnt' seem feasible given my current workload.
That being said, the less thinking I do for this thing, the better it goes so maybe if I didn't have time to stop and think
That being said, the less thinking I do for this thing, the better it goes so maybe if I didn't have time to stop and think
heh prepping for nano, I am having issues being good about writing in general right now.
part of it is merely a cross roads of how much info I want to include here, figure I should just get around to saying F it and write it now and if I want to forshadow more or less later I can, it's not like I am publishing this right now and thus I don't need it set in stone.
edit: I got some done, I am averaging a pathetic 173 words a night this month though
Valdfellgar
Banned
You also might consider, assuming you're not planning to rip chapter one's guts out, just moving on and fixing it later. Sometimes it's good to just get it all on the page and see how you feel after. You might just be too hard on it right now and feel differently, or have a better idea of what's wrong with it, later.
I am far more in this camp.
just move on.
come back to it later.
not only might you feel better about it later.
you might get to chapter 3 and realize.
"FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the entire event I based chapter 1 on doesn't work with what I want to do now.
I need to completely change it.
DAMN IT DAMN IT DAMN IT....
why did I waste so much time on it."
Conkersbadfurday
Member
Agreed with this. I know a guy who writes a chapter and revises and revises and revises and I'm damn near convinced he'll never actually finish a novel.
Save major editing for later.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
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So my Nano genres: YA fantasy/steampunk, post-apocalyptic action and straight up space opera Scifi. Not sure in which I fit best. YA is probably more commercial if I ever actually revise and try to get published.
I might try brainstorm something more character based and see how it goes. I'm a bit of a plot guy, and it's the characters who sell a story, I think.
EDIT genre's from my previous Nano's..
I might try brainstorm something more character based and see how it goes. I'm a bit of a plot guy, and it's the characters who sell a story, I think.
EDIT genre's from my previous Nano's..
Already in mental Nano preparation mode for a while now and thank god, it's still so relatively far away. Genres, style and general motivation of everyone and everything probably switch around daily at this point. Two weeks ago I thought I was pretty much set with what I had.
haha... #avatarquote
haha... #avatarquote