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[noah111]

That's your answer, Sentry. You do it because it gives you a bigger screen in a smaller phone. That's going to be Apple's message, I'd bet money on it.

http://daringfireball.net/2012/05/bigger_display_iphone_thing_wwdc

That doesn't exactly explain why they were in the very late prototyping stages (if not damn near complete) of a slightly bigger iPhone with a 3:2 4". It was their alternative/backup solution, I think, not their first choice or what they had planned from the get-go, at all. Also, you're acting like a slightly wider phone would be a disaster to hold, or something. The benefits of fitting a "true" bigger screen in a slightly wider body is the justification. If it were so obvious, there wouldn't have been a bigger iPhone prototype to begin with. This is the easier route, is all.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I'm only bringing this up becuase it would be slightly more feasible on a bigger screen, but does anyone find themselves trying to do the 4finger pinch to close on the iPhone after doing it all the time on the iPad? I'd say like probably once a day I try to do some sort of pinch to the center to close an app on the phone. Sure would be sweet to have gestures like that on the iPhone.

 

[Appleman]

That doesn't exactly explain why they were in the very late prototyping stages (if not damn near complete) of a slightly bigger iPhone with a 3:2 4". It was their alternative/backup solution, I think, not their first choice or what they had planned from the get-go, at all. Also, you're acting like a slightly wider phone would be a disaster to hold, or something. The benefits of fitting a "true" bigger screen in a slightly wider body is the justification. If it were so obvious, there wouldn't have been a bigger iPhone prototype to begin with. This is the easier route, is all.

Maybe they prototyped this 4" 3:2 display (and we don't really know how far that got) but still realized that widening the phone DOES make everything a little harder to reach, and makes the phone somewhat bulkier, and then came up with this idea to elegantly sidestep that, and determined that the design needed more time in the oven.

In my opinion, the taller screen (even for just another icon row / NC widget) is MORE of a usability improvement than a "true" (this needs to stop by the way) scaled up 3:2.

Even if they upped the 3:2 resolution (which is absurd), could they even get ONE extra home screen icon on?

 

[KtSlime]

Option 3 is what most people expected and wanted. Same number of pixels, either retina at 3.7" or slightly lower at 4". I don't think anybody in their potential customer user base was thinking of funky extra space for widgets

Spoiler

or iAds

You'll need to properly explain how you drew those conclusions for 1 and 2. The landscape keyboard would definitely need to be changed for option 1 as well. Everyone likes to post mockups of how twitter and Facebook apps would look so nice in portrait 1 with the extra scrolling content but in landscape mode the apps would look messed up. All developers, not just game developers and other developers with custom UI, would need to tweak their designs regardless.

For this rumored 4" screen (option 1), the indications are Apple is just taking the same PPI density sheets used right now in manufacturing and cutting out screens with the same width and different length. What's stopping them from just cutting out a bigger screen in a 3:2 aspect ratio with the same PPI? There wouldn't be any 'useless border'

Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my post. I rarely use landscape on my iphone. I know it was one of the big features they added to the default apps with iOS 2(?), but landscape is pretty much useless for everything but games and maybe some websites. They could get rid of it and the landscape keyboard and I would not miss it, although I'm sure some people love it - frankly I'm not overly thrilled about having 1cm of content visible. But you are absolutely correct, if they are planning on keeping it, they will have to make a new keyboard for it.

Adding vertically is pretty easy, a majority of apps, that are not games, already scale vertically because they are list based and have to change height while when tethering or in call. Games can just be letter boxed (or whatever it is called when there are black borders on the sides). Games would also benefit from a 16:9 resolution by allowing developers to put controls on the sides.

3:2 with more horizontal and vertical pixels would require scaling or a black border around the entire app - which would be hideous (IMO). And if they enlarge the keyboard and widgets for the new 3:2 resolution the content area would still be the same as it is when the keyboard is up - too small.

Keeping a 3:2 ratio, but enlarging the screen would likely make the phone wider, and as I see it, the phone is already wider than I would like. The iPhone (1, and 4) are the widest phones I have ever owned and hopefully it will remain that way.

That doesn't exactly explain why they were in the very late prototyping stages (if not damn near complete) of a slightly bigger iPhone with a 3:2 4". It was their alternative/backup solution, I think, not their first choice or what they had planned from the get-go, at all. Also, you're acting like a slightly wider phone would be a disaster to hold, or something. The benefits of fitting a "true" bigger screen in a slightly wider body is the justification. If it were so obvious, there wouldn't have been a bigger iPhone prototype to begin with. This is the easier route, is all.

Apple has in the past developed several competing models in house, and chose the one they think will be the winner. I believe Jobs once said something to the effect of 'the more internal teams compete in Apple, the less their resulting products need to compete with competitors products'.

 

[noah111]

The iPhone (1, and 4) are the widest phones I have ever owned and hopefully it will remain that way.

Heh. They could fit in a 4" and only widen the phone by mere millimeters. The width of the grip isn't really the big issue, I think.

Maybe they prototyped this 4" 3:2 display (and we don't really know how far that got) but still realized that widening the phone DOES make everything a little harder to reach, and makes the phone somewhat bulkier, and then came up with this idea to elegantly sidestep that, and determined that the design needed more time in the oven.

In my opinion, the taller screen (even for just another icon row / NC widget) is MORE of a usability improvement than a "true" (this needs to stop by the way) scaled up 3:2.

Even if they upped the 3:2 resolution (which is absurd), could they even get ONE extra home screen icon on?

I think they could, yeah.

But the problem was probably less about that and more about retina. It would take a hit, which probably couldn't fly. And they most likely couldn't find a viable way to increase/retain the same PPI.

 

[Tobor]

Maybe they prototyped this 4" 3:2 display (and we don't really know how far that got) but still realized that widening the phone DOES make everything a little harder to reach, and makes the phone somewhat bulkier, and then came up with this idea to elegantly sidestep that, and determined that the design needed more time in the oven.

In my opinion, the taller screen (even for just another icon row / NC widget) is MORE of a usability improvement than a "true" (this needs to stop by the way) scaled up 3:2.

Even if they upped the 3:2 resolution (which is absurd), could they even get ONE extra home screen icon on?

That's how I see it.

As for the leaked prototype last year, it was exactly that, a leaked prototype. All it means is they tested different screen sizes, and does anyone actually think they wouldn't?

 

[Vyer]

That doesn't exactly explain why they were in the very late prototyping stages (if not damn near complete) of a slightly bigger iPhone with a 3:2 4". It was their alternative/backup solution, I think, not their first choice or what they had planned from the get-go, at all. Also, you're acting like a slightly wider phone would be a disaster to hold, or something. The benefits of fitting a "true" bigger screen in a slightly wider body is the justification. If it were so obvious, there wouldn't have been a bigger iPhone prototype to begin with. This is the easier route, is all.

What confirmed prototype are you referencing? Somehow I think I missed seeing it.

 

[noah111]

As for the leaked prototype last year, it was exactly that, a leaked prototype. All it means is they tested different screen sizes, and does anyone actually think they wouldn't?

Are you forgetting? Almost everyone, tech sites included, were giving it a 99% probability before 4S. Why? Because the leaks, both rumors, sources, and physical prototypes, were abundant. It was definitely not as simple as a side prototype they were working tandem with a bunch of others, and this one just happened to be the one that got leaked. It was almost certainly more far along than that.

Well he obviously wants Apple to mimic the Galaxy Note.

 

[KtSlime]

Heh. They could fit in a 4" and only widen the phone by mere millimeters. The width of the grip isn't really the big issue, I think.

I think they could, yeah.

But the problem was probably less about that and more about retina. It would take a hit, which probably couldn't fly. And they most likely couldn't find a viable way to increase/retain the same PPI.

I don't think they can do touch screen LCDs without borders yet, so while there are some margins on the side of the phone, and they probably can shrink, I don't think they can shrink enough to fit a 4inch 3:2 display.

I really don't think they could add more app icons to the screen horizontally only vertically. Bumping the screen up to 4 inches, keeping the same PPI they are currently using would add ~0.7cm horizontal space, and ~1cm vertical. At 128ppcm, that's only ~89 pixels horizontal, and ~128 pixels vertical. App icons are 114x114 (IIRC) and still require spacing on all sides. A 4inch screen, at the same PPI will be 1088x729. While adding space in both dimensions will give up a few more pixels than only adding vertically, you have to ask yourself, are those few columns of pixels really worth it?

Edit: Oh yeah, just realized they would still need space for the app icon names. 128 pixels vertical would not even be enough space to add a new row of apps. Only if they add 176 vertically would they have enough room.

 

[badcrumble]

Yeah, like John Gruber isn't the king of playing gotchas or 'claim chowder' as he likes to call it.

3.5" screen iPhone 4S leak:

4" screen iPhone 5 leak


If you can't see how he changed his tune then *shrug* agree to disagree.

He pretty clearly follows the second quote by saying that when it comes to device size, bigger is *not* better. Apart from the thumb-browsing thing, he's not being contradictory about the size issue; sometimes it is better and sometimes it is not.

I, for one, am happy that Apple is managing not to make the iPhone itself any larger than the pitch-perfect size of the 4/4S. Hell, I hope they keep the form factor pretty much exactly the same because it's the most gorgeous industrial design basically ever.

That doesn't exactly explain why they were in the very late prototyping stages (if not damn near complete) of a slightly bigger iPhone with a 3:2 4". It was their alternative/backup solution, I think, not their first choice or what they had planned from the get-go, at all. Also, you're acting like a slightly wider phone would be a disaster to hold, or something. The benefits of fitting a "true" bigger screen in a slightly wider body is the justification. If it were so obvious, there wouldn't have been a bigger iPhone prototype to begin with. This is the easier route, is all.

"True"

you're doing it again.

 

[Tobor]

Are you forgetting? Almost everyone, tech sites included, were giving it a 99% probability before 4S. Why? Because the leaks, both rumors, sources, and physical prototypes, were abundant. It was definitely not as simple as a side prototype they were working tandem with a bunch of others, and this one just happened to be the one that got leaked. It was almost certainly more far along than that.

Let's say you're right. They changed their mind, cancelled it, and went with another solution. Given Apples track record, why do you want a device they felt wasn't good enough?

 

[Xun]

<3 James Van Der Memes.

 

[noah111]

"True"

you're doing it again.

I put it in parentheses for a reason. Shorter way of saying 3:2 4-4.3".

Let's say you're right. They changed their mind, cancelled it, and went with another solution. Given Apples track record, why do you want a device they felt wasn't good enough?

True, and as i've already said, part of what makes this news disappointing or worse, is the fact that half of the world was riding on it being that old leaked (3:2) version instead.

At the end of the day it might be the right decision at the right time, but it doesn't mean I have to like it over what could have been just because it was the easier way to go for Apple. Like i've said before, it's not going to be a shit product, just not worth the change in multiple regards (imo).

But as you said, if they cancelled it and went with another 'solution', that insinuates there would have been a problem. A problem at getting 4" to work right. Instead of dropping it entirely, they tried something different in order to reach that 4" qualification, perhaps with Steve Jobs' input on his deathbed (as some rumors suggested). From where we are standing, that sort of seems like trying to solve a non-issue. Someone just really wanted to make it 4" some way some how, and this was the simplest solution. But it wasn't the first.

 

[KtSlime]

I put it in parentheses for a reason. Shorter way of saying 3:2 4-4.3".

If one was to consider only one 4inch diagonal screen as a true 4inch screen, it would be 1:1 aspect ratio - that would maximize the number of pixels they are able to pack in a 4inch display. However, they are all true.

 

[Blackhead]

He pretty clearly follows the second quote by saying that when it comes to device size, bigger is *not* better. Apart from the thumb-browsing thing, he's not being contradictory about the size issue; sometimes it is better and sometimes it is not.

I, for one, am happy that Apple is managing not to make the iPhone itself any larger than the pitch-perfect size of the 4/4S. Hell, I hope they keep the form factor pretty much exactly the same because it's the most gorgeous industrial design basically ever.

"True"

you're doing it again.

So apart from the contradiction (the thumb browsing thing is directly related to his thoughts on screen size) there is no contradiction. Ok that makes perfect sense. And where did you get the idea that the next iPhone itself is no larger that the "pitch-perfect size of the 4/4S"? Those mockups with the capacitive button? Or you mean to say that it'll be thinner so therefore no larger? No shit sherlock. The galaxy nexus was thinner than the iPhone 4S last year. The 4.3" phone in the HTC One series is thinner than the 3.7". But Apple is going to waltz in, ignore the gospel of thumbs are built for 3.5" screens, and tell everyone they've made magic discovering you can make a 'smaller' phone with a bigger screen, that's their angle!? Gotcha

 

[noah111]

If one was to consider only one 4inch diagonal screen as a true 4inch screen, it would be 1:1 aspect ratio - that would maximize the number of pixels they are able to pack in a 4inch display. However, they are all true.

Semantics, you understand well what I mean. 'True' as in original to the past 5 iterations of the iPhone screen ration and 'true' as in what we originally were expecting from 4". Don't get caught up on a word.

 

[Good Job Bob]

This whole thing reads like a bad joke.

 

[noah111]

This whole thing reads like a bad joke.

But..... we haven't heard the punchline yet.

 

[Appleman]

Regarding the previous "prototype", the cases that came near completion were SIGNIFICANTLY larger than the current iPhone, and I'm sure Apple has intentionally leaked false information before (although, they would admittedly have had questionable motivation this time around...)

 

[noah111]

Fortune: How Tim Cook is changing Apple. Good read (didn't know where to post it), but here's a relevant bit;

A difference, according to multiple secondhand reports of the retreat, is that the spirit of the meeting was upbeat and even fun. Cook was said to be in a jovial, joke-cracking mood -- a stark contrast to the grim and fearful tone Jobs engendered at the meetings. Participants left the Top 100 energized about Apple's near-term outlook, presumably having seen Apple's next iPhone and perhaps its long-awaited television product too. One veteran executive was "blown away" by what he had seen, says someone this executive spoke to afterward. Reports another person with access to top-level Apple executives: "People came away totally comfortable with where the company is headed."

I can't see them being blown away by a longer screen alone. Must be a new form factor or something, along with iOS 6. The TV was probably what stole the show amongst them, though. That'll be interesting.

Not to derail the thread but are we expecting the TV to be announced this year? Not sure where it would fit, with the new iPhone in October and all.

 

[Good Job Bob]

18 more days until WWDC.

 

[Xun]

Fortune: How Tim Cook is changing Apple. Good read (didn't know where to post it), but here's a relevant bit;



I can't see them being blown away by a longer screen alone. Must be a new form factor or something, along with iOS 6. The TV was probably what stole the show amongst them, though. That'll be interesting.

Not to derail the thread but are we expecting the TV to be announced this year? Not sure where it would fit, with the new iPhone in October and all.

I'd love to see the TV thing be announced this year, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

[noah111]

I'd love to see the TV thing be announced this year, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

It would be perfect for the holidays, I imagine. But yeah, seems too cramped as well..

 

[Good Job Bob]

It'll probably be announced in October alongside the new iPhone/iPod touch.

 

[mrklaw]

Maybe they prototyped this 4" 3:2 display (and we don't really know how far that got) but still realized that widening the phone DOES make everything a little harder to reach, and makes the phone somewhat bulkier, and then came up with this idea to elegantly sidestep that, and determined that the design needed more time in the oven.

In my opinion, the taller screen (even for just another icon row / NC widget) is MORE of a usability improvement than a "true" (this needs to stop by the way) scaled up 3:2.

Even if they upped the 3:2 resolution (which is absurd), could they even get ONE extra home screen icon on?

Its a balance - always is. Maybe this was the best balance between increasing the size of the screen while avoiding too much impact on developers and not increasing the size of the phone so its still easily pocketable.

maybe width is a more important metric for reaching across with a thumb than height is? Maybe width impacts pocketability more (sounds reasonable)

there might be other reasons too - aren't a ton of phones in Japan really tall? Maybe they expect strong performance in Japan with a taller screen. Maybe that usage mirrors other asian markets like China?



and I like viewing web pages in landscape if they have lots of text to read - I don't like flicking my eyes left and right so quickly which you get with narrow columns of text.

18 more days until WWDC.

oh crap, a week after E3? We'll have barely recovered.

 

[andycapps]

True, and as i've already said, part of what makes this news disappointing or worse, is the fact that half of the world was riding on it being that old leaked (3:2) version instead.

At the end of the day it might be the right decision at the right time, but it doesn't mean I have to like it over what could have been just because it was the easier way to go for Apple. Like i've said before, it's not going to be a shit product, just not worth the change in multiple regards (imo).
But as you said, if they cancelled it and went with another 'solution', that insinuates there would have been a problem. A problem at getting 4" to work right. Instead of dropping it entirely, they tried something different in order to reach that 4" qualification, perhaps with Steve Jobs' input on his deathbed (as some rumors suggested). From where we are standing, that sort of seems like trying to solve a non-issue. Someone just really wanted to make it 4" some way some how, and this was the simplest solution. But it wasn't the first.

You don't know yet whether it's worth it or not. iOS 6 hasn't been revealed yet, the phone hasn't been revealed, the aspect ratio hasn't been revealed. So you're making a decision about whether it's worthwhile or not before any information has been revealed.

 

[Divvy]

Didn't bother making a new thread, but I wonder if this is any way related:

Apple files patent application for the &#8220;Optical stylus&#8221;

According to the filing the optical stylus could be used in a wide variety of Apple products, such as the iPhone or iPad, and is pressure sensitive. The description reads that when &#8220;the optical stylus is in contact with a surface based on signals received by a processor from a pressure sensor of the optical stylus.&#8221; In addition, similar to Samsung&#8217;s S Pen, Apple&#8217;s &#8220;optical stylus&#8221; pending patent also has the ability of &#8220;capturing an image while the optical stylus is in contact with the surface.&#8221;

Awesome news if true. Return of the glorious stylus.

 

[Good Job Bob]

Thank god.

 

[Zeppu]

iGalaxyNote right there, I tell ya. Look at how huge the screen is compared to the home button. Might be 2:3 too, designed especially for Sentry <3

 

[kehs]

At least we know what the bigger body of the iphone 5huge is for, to hold the stylus. You guys might get to keep your minuscule screen after all!

 

[Xun]

Didn't bother making a new thread, but I wonder if this is any way related:

Awesome news if true. Return of the glorious stylus.

Awesome!

The perfect digital sketckpad will soon come true.

I'm talking about a future iPad of course.

 

[andycapps]

Didn't bother making a new thread, but I wonder if this is any way related:

Awesome news if true. Return of the glorious stylus.

Calling it now, 7" iPad right here.

 

[Divvy]

Awesome!

The perfect digital sketckpad will soon come true.

I'm talking about a future iPad of course.

Yup, it's great to see these companies take pressure sensitive styluses seriously. When I complained about the lack of them in the ipad 3 reveal thread, people kept telling me that the artist demographic was too small for Apple to cater to. Glad to see that Apple is at least thinking about it.

Sucks for all the crappy stylus makers on kickstarter though, oops.

 

[Talon]

Sucks for Wacom.

.

 

[Divvy]

.

Wacom could stand to have some competition.

 

[Treefingers]

I just want Wacom to suck a dick so this patent makes me very happy.

Divvy what's the source?

 

[Tobor]

iGalaxyNote right there, I tell ya. Look at how huge the screen is compared to the home button. Might be 2:3 too, designed especially for Sentry <3

I can't tell when you guys are joking or being serious.

 

[Good Job Bob]

Wacom could stand to have some competition.

How would they even compete with such a thing?

Heavier partnerships with Samsung and other Android OEMs?

 

[noah111]

iGalaxyNote right there, I tell ya. Look at how huge the screen is compared to the home button. Might be 2:3 too, designed especially for Sentry <3

:lol Patent drawings are always hilariously, disproportionately, bad.

Also, patents don't really mean shit. They usually indicate a company has come up with something they don't want others to use, not that they themselves will necessarily use it.

 

[Blackhead]

I can't tell when you guys are joking or being serious.

.

 

[Zeppu]

I can't tell when you guys are joking or being serious.

Poe's law, braah.

 

[Divvy]

How would they even compete with such a thing?

Heavier partnerships with Samsung and other Android OEMs?

Sure why not? Anything is better than them sitting on the asses in the tablet space. I'm sure they'll be in a lot of win 8 tabs too. Hopefully this Apple one will help make sure wacom's solutions aren't super expensive.

I just want Wacom to suck a dick so this patent makes me very happy.

Divvy what's the source?

Oops forgot to post the link:

http://mobilesyrup.com/2012/05/24/apple-files-patent-application-for-the-optical-stylus/

http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=18&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&S1=%2820120524.PD.+AND+Apple.AS.%29&OS=PD/20120524+AND+AN/Apple&RS=%28PD/20120524+AND+AN/Apple

 

[Treefingers]

^ thanks!

Are there any front camera rumors floating around? Shit sucks man

 

[badcrumble]

I'm cool with a stylus as long as it's an accessory sold separately from the device. I don't want a hole in my iDevice for a stylus, kthx.

 

[Divvy]

I'm cool with a stylus as long as it's an accessory sold separately from the device. I don't want a hole in my iDevice for a stylus, kthx.

But think of all the things you could stick in there? Tiny pencils, mascara, twizzlers?

Spoiler

I don't have any doubts that it'd be separate.

 

[noah111]

I'm cool with a stylus as long as it's an accessory sold separately from the device. I don't want a hole in my iDevice for a stylus, kthx.

Knowing Apple they'd probably come up with some crazy shit like a retractable stylus that could fold down and be inserted into the headphone jack. Or something.

Spoiler

it'll never happen either way.

 

[Krev]

Introducing a stylus would be an interesting move away from the 'touch input only' approach. Doorways would be opened for products like the rumoured iOS game controller.

 

[Good Job Bob]

Knowing Apple they'd probably come up with some crazy shit like a retractable stylus that could fold down and be inserted into the headphone jack. Or something.

Spoiler

it'll never happen either way.

You don't think an accessory is happneing? Just a matter of time really.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

Barf, fuck stylus' (styli?). That goes against the design concept of the iPhone. Maybe for the 7 inch iPad, but for iPhones? No thank you.

I'm totally game for a larger screen though. Pretty excited.

 

[faceless007]

I thought Steve hated styluses.