Why is it that all these Muslim buildings and designs look pure evil to me? is it just because I've been raised an white american and the media has conditioned me to see middle eastern design as evil, or is there something wrong with me on a aesthetic level, or do Muslims share this view as well?
Erm, most Islamic architecture in the Middle East got its influences from Byzatine.
This tomb destruction will be done by muslims while the cartoons were done by infidels.
See the difference?
Yes. This is one of the problems with our people, not the religion, but the mentality of the people as perpetuated through their corrupt hypocritical and fucked up governments.
Somehow I get the impression that if a non-muslim bulldozed the grave then suddenly it would be the biggest deal in the world.
True again.
These buildings look beautiful.
I would like to visit some of these sites one day. It pisses me off that they wont let non-muslims visit. All religions should be open to letting people learn more about their religion.
You can visit normal mosques, or at least you should be able to, I know the stance on Mecca is no muslims allowed, but Im not so sure about Medina, I wonder how documentaries on the places were made? Be interesting to see if they allow non-muslims journalists in.
It is not immoral or religiously forbidden to be financially wealthy or try to make money legitimately (i.e., without violating the moral code or others' rights). One can still be modest while spending and making tons of money.
The purpose of these large expansions around the holy cities is to be able to accommodate more religious visitors. In the past, the infrastructure and capacity would not have held 4 million people; it did this year. The plan is to make it possible to hold 5 million religious visitors at once in the near future.
This requires construction and redesign. This requires great expenditure to build up the mass transportation, the prayer areas of the Masjids, and hotels.
I agree that the clock tower in Makkah is not fitting for the city, but the other projects have good intentions.
There are so many people in the world who would love to go for Hajj but can't due to the lack of capacity in these cities.
yeah, theres alot of people who can't go, and now with all this fancy construction and raising the prices of staying in these hotels, even more people won't be able to go. theres other ways of accomodating pilgrims than in such a vile materialistic manner, in a place where we are all supposed to be equal. fuck it, no ihram, no 2 pieces of simple cloth, lets do the hajj in full gucci. after all, thats what most saudi's love.
Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them.
I fucking want them off the face of this planet. I'd rather nuke the fuck out of them before they even get to touch his grave.
THANK YOU phospor. I really really wish the world would wake up to the fact that terrorists get their ideology from the House of Saud, Salafis and Wahabis, and then bomb the fuck out of Saudi (but of course leaving the 2 holy mosques alone)
The Saudis have destroyed almost all of historical Mecca and Medina. It's pretty sad as a Muslim. I wish Muslim countries would say something..
They can't. Well the people might, but the governments? Pfft. A bunch of fucking pussies.
Especially in the Gulf. Hypocritical bastards the lot of them. Even the mindset of the people their is grotesque.
Who is this architect and why is he so terrible
Most modern day architecture in the Middle East is appalling, an insult to architecture. Just look at Dubai, its like somebody designed a building, realised there was no place in the world where it would fit in, and just plonked it on a piece of land they could find available in Dubai.
They say architecture should reflect a cities character, well from most Gulf nations it does, they have no character and are completely soul less.
People people people first of all the prophet's grave will not be razed. You have been reading the stories of western press> i find so amusing that westerners are telling muslims how to live their lives. Especially saudis. One of the best things about speaking arabic and having relatives in saudi arabia is that you get to hear the truth amidst the garbage of the slandering that goes on.
If you walked up to any saudi today and called him a wahabi you would get a slap or worse. You see no body in saudi arabia even visits the grave of muhamed ibn abdul wahab the so called originator of wahabism.
Wahabism is just a moniker. Used to troll saudis because they are so strict and zealous when it comes to islam. I mean which muslim country would you get where
the shops close when the azan springs to life
the shariah is fully enforced
alcohol is banned
statues, shrines and maseloums are completely wiped out
Capital punishment for murder and rape amongst other things
The saudis are going on an expansion spree. I dont know if you heard the news lately but 4 million people descended on to plains of arabic in a matter of days. Space does not magically come up. The saudis first concern is the safety ad well being of the pilgrims. Moreover people are tired of being in hotels which are miles away from the holy sites. Cheap affordable hotels are the goal here. If they demolish the house of the prophet's wife then what's the big freakin deal. Are you go the hajj on an archaelogical visit or to worship Allah?
The tombs of Prophet muhammed and abu bakr siddiq and umar bin al khattab will remain where they are. If a new bigger mosque swallows up the mosques of abu bakr and umar then what's the big deal.
I will tell you what the big deal is. Nothing unites the westerner, the shia and the sufi more than the hatred of the saudi. Any slandering or biasedness of oppurtunity will not be missed. But hate does not affect anyone. Least of all the saudis. For i doubt they really care what the haters think or say about them. the sufi and the shia will never in a million years control the holy sites and the westerner doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things
I'm only quoting this bit of you, but ive seen the rest of your posts in this thread, and now its quite clear why i had an argument with you a while back.
First of all, in all your texts, and discourse with OttomanScribe, you have no respect, speak crudely, and think of yourself as some glorious figure.
You are actually, the reason why so many people in the world right now have a negative view of Islam. I mean look at your bolded last paragraph? What is that supposed to mean? In Islam we aren't meant to have these uneccessary quarrels with other sects of faiths but look at how you have twisted that. What, you think you are the enlightened one? Get the fuck out of here.
So what if the sufi and shia won't have control over the holy sites? They aren't begging for it. The house of Saud should have NEVER had control over them anyway, its pretty clear from various hadith that no private family like theirs should have one. I won't look or search for one but I know they are there. You should know yourself seeing as your one perfect muslim. How dare you defend the House of Saud, the biggest betrayer to our faith, and the reason we have a bad name globally. Seriously how fucking dare you.
Space doesn't magically pop up? Damn right it doesn't, building a huge ass clock that towers over the holiest site and takes the attention away from it doesnt help provide space either.
Saudi enforces sharia?? Yeah a screwed up and twisted version of it. Only the most learned and elected scholars can enforce the shariah, not some screwed up inbred family that promotes extremist ideologies with one of the most twisted versions of justice:
A few years ago there was a car parked on the side of the road, in a residential area, a baby was playing outside. A saudi man driving like a lunatic zooms down, clips the parked car which then kills the baby. Who is to blame? in a NORMAL place, the man driving the car would be blamed. IN SAUDI it was the guy whose car was parked on the road because he wasn't saudi.
not to mention their laws on rape and the way they treat our women. its shameful. the last sermon of the prophet (pbuh) was all about how we must take care and treat our women with kindness. In the worlds view today that was forgotten, and replaced with the House of Sauds lets oppress all women because they are worse than us.
As for your points on 'walking up to a saudi and calling him a wahabi' it proves how ignorant you are in matters you claim to have knowledge of. That being said I aint of the most knowledge myself in religion. But what you have said is just wrong. No one should be calling anyone else by what sect they adhere to. Just like you have insulted the shia and sufi, and anyone else who isnt like you.
You have intolerant extremist views of Islam, you are almost borderline Al - Qaida. You are part of the reason so many people in the world think we are a violent religion. You are part of the reason why our religion and ummah is so divided.
Don't go on talking like you some big ting. And don't even dare to defend the Saudis without thinking you'll get soem sort of backlash. Anyone who has had an experience with Saudis knows that they are arrogant, racist, supremacist, and most of all that they can't drive for shit. Yes that was a generalization, but I know it first hand.
Don't bother replying, I don't even wish to get into a conversation with you, after reading the rest of your posts in this thread and elsewhere. It's clear you have no skill in discourse.
Note to mods: I hope I didnt say anything bad in there.
Nothing new.
I pray that they see the error of their ways, or the sword sees an end to them. I've said it once and I'll say it again, the Uthmaniyya knew how to deal with such schismatics.
Heads, pikes, the walls of Istanbul.
If only...
What Shariah are you talking about? The one that is more driven by wahabi ideology and culture or the one that represents Muslims at large. I don't see a shariah that represents muslims in Saudi Arabia, but a shariah that represents the wahabi and salafi scholars/imams there.
If the Saudis are so pious and good why don't they help solve the Palestinian, Kashmir, Philippines, Chechnya, Myanmar, and Chinese Muslim issues...
Exactly. They have never lended a hand to anyone apart from themselves and the oil companies that invest in their land.
Also Hajj is now not a Pilgrimage, it's a fucking Commodity to be used and abused by the rich
There's a reason you wear 2 pieces of white cloth
The man right next to you can be the richest or the poorest man on the planet, but at that time you are equal
Now there are Hajj packages
$7500 per person get you an AC Tent, Buffet Food Line, Special Private Accommodations, VIP Driver, Faster Access, Top Tier Business Class Flight Seats
$5000 You lose some of the benefits
$3000 More benefits lost
THAT SHIT IS NOT EQUAL YOU STUPID FUCKS!, you are going against the same teaching you are fucking following
Now you are taking it up to stupid tier by forcing people to pay $500 to stay in these hotels, which most can't afford
Hajj is a pilgrimage of sacrifice, learning that the person next to you is your equal no matter what, that you are in God's house, worshiping god and nothing else
No consumerism
I can't wait till they start selling I<3 Mecca/Medina shirts
Buy 3 for $20 shirts, licensed out by Adidas
Thank you. Couldnt have put that better myself. Anyone trying to defend this lunacy has no idea what they are talking about. Thats directed at Muslim-GAF who are bigging up the Saudi regime.
Truth is, there have been very few 'Islamic' Muslim leaders, its why the myth of Islam being spread by the sword is so prevalent.
In reality the only times Muslims banded together was during catastrophes such as when the Crusaders started their campaign against the Muslim lands. Even if there was a righteous leader, he was surrounded by other nations who werent led by such people. Which is again why the whole myth annoys me so much, there has never been a so called Islamic empire.
But to get back to the topic, the Saudi government is NOT doing any of this for Islam. They preach a crude and simplistic form of the religion because it suits their needs which is all despite the West's strong support for the regime. Its the same way the Mutazila school was promoted and its opponents put to death, the leaders of the time simply found it convenient to stay in rule.
Edit: Dont bother, Salafis cant be reasoned with. Dealing with overzealous people, you have to put their own ignorant logic on them. Just see the responses on this thread, these Saudi bashing ones always tend to end up bashing something more...
Yeah, I'd dare say there is not one Islamic ruler in the world today. It was prophesized that such things would happen. Shame it turned out to be true but just gives me more faith : )
On your note though, I hope non-muslim and anti-muslim gaf read what you have written there.
I hope they realise that the reason they have acts of Islamic terrorism, stories relating to the oppression of women, harsh laws like stoning for adultery, is because of the House of Saud.
I hope they all realise that most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.
I hope they all realise that the biggest traitors to our faith is the House of Saud.
And last and definetly not least, I hope they all realise that we hate the fucking House of Saud want to do what phophor said, nuke the fuck out of their palaces.
