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[Ydahs]

That end part is true, but Islamic history is significant as well. That its why these sites should stay to teach future generations about Islam.

Oh I agree, but Islamically speaking, some things are against the religion. Take the tombs you posted above. I think it's more disrespectful to build a tomb on top of a companion's graveyard than it is to demolish it. I'm not exactly religious, but I'm pretty sure it's commonly accepted that such burials sites are not permitted in Islam.

I don't see how having a grave marker and a tomb is considered worshipping the person.

That was in his response to his question on idolatry in general.

Yeah that looks decent to me, though I dont find it overal pleasing. The spires/ordiments on top the towers look evil.

Dude, that's the Blue Mosque, a popular tourist destination in Turkey. It's amazing:

 

[shinobi602]

Oh look. Another thread about Islam religion where people barely read the thread and flip out over nothing while calling religious people hypocrites. Has it been 12 hours already?

It's not like they're not trying. Their highest religious leader officially signed a decree to have the actual tomb destroyed.

 

[Dead Man]

Oh look. Another thread about Islam religion where people barely read the thread and flip out over nothing while calling religious people hypocrites. Has it been 12 hours already?

Oh look. Another post bitching about the thread and people not reading it at the same time.

Is it a shitty thread or one that should be read?

 

[phosphor112]

It's not like they're not trying. Their highest religious leader officially signed a decree to have the actual tomb destroyed.

It was bound to happen.

 

[Kurtofan]

Oh look. Another thread about Islam religion where people barely read the thread and flip out over nothing while calling religious people hypocrites. Has it been 12 hours already?

Seriously, it's like people only read titles, get angry and make a passive aggressive post.

 

[RustyNails]

If you think Blue Mosque is ugly...there is nothing I can say or do. It's absolutely amazing, both inside and out.

 

[Pagusas]

Oh I agree, but Islamically speaking, some things are against the religion. Take the tombs you posted above. I think it's more disrespectful to build a tomb on top of a companion's graveyard than it is to demolish it. I'm not exactly religious, but I'm pretty sure it's commonly accepted that such burials sites are not permitted in Islam.


That was in his response to his question on idolatry in general.



Dude, that's the Blue Mosque, a popular tourist destination in Turkey. It's amazing:

Very cool, still looks evil on the outside!

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Riots are a good indication that the poor muslims of some areas have been riled up by their conservative imams on some issue, no more and no less. Those same conservative imams are for various reasons usually very Pro Saudi.

There are plenty of muslims *in this very thread* who are greatly offended by this.

Antipathy and disdain for Saudis is not exactly a rare emotion for a lot of Muslims.

Plus the Saudis have been doing this shit for decades now from way before they were 'expanding buildings to accommodate pilgrims'. They just search for excuses to tear down and destroy places that other sects respect. It's an angry, intolerant, and violent Wahhabi attitude and it's in a very real way erasing history.

Sorry, but the Internet and Newsweek have told me that all Muslims are crazed bearded scimitar-wielding zealots straight from the medieval period who love to riot and murder at the first sound of an infidel's breath.

 

[phosphor112]

Sorry, but the Internet and Newsweek have told me that all Muslims are crazed bearded scimitar-wielding zealots straight from the medieval period who love to riot and murder at the first sound of an infidel's breath.

I hear your breath.

yourealreadydead.jpeg

 

[Kinyou]

How is this even possible? In the Turkish Topakai Museum is even Muhammed's Sandal on display

How could someone care for a sandal but not for the tomb?

Edit: oh it's the Saudis who do not care.

 

[Kunan]

I'm not even Muslim and it kind of pisses me off that they are destroying 700-1000 year old historical sites.

Me too. Hey let's bulldoze all these monuments and historical sites to build more hotels and a bigger viewing area for just one of them.

 

[cameron]

Seriously, it's like people only read titles, get angry and make a passive aggressive post.

Did you read the thread? Even the article in the OP quotes a dude from the Islamic Heritage Research Foundation who points out the issue of Muslims remaining silent. I have no idea what you and Htown are on about. Maybe simmer down with being so defensive?

 

[Azih]

I'm not exactly religious, but I'm pretty sure it's commonly accepted that such burials sites are not permitted in Islam.

Not at all, only in a very Salafi/Wahhabi conception of Islam (which only started spreading very recently in history).

All of these buildings were *built by muslims* in the first place!

 

[phosphor112]

The Saudis have announced no plans to preserve or move the three mosques...

sigh...

 

[effzee]

Some Wahabi scholars might want to destroy the actual graves. But that isn't what is happening. They are expanding the mosque, not destroying the graves of the Prophet or his companions.

Not a fan of Wahabism, but a lot of this expansion is required. The number of pilgrims going every year is increasing and to prevent stampedes and to accommodate and manage the millions and millions of pilgrims they have to upgrade the infrastructure.

And really people comparing this to cartoons insulting the Prophet? Seriously? Not that I agreed with the response of riots or violence but it is completely different.

 

[Raistlin]

As far as I know, this is their policy. These aren't sacred sites, because it promotes idolatry.

Muhammad nor Khadijah are Allah.

You're assuming fundamentalists actually accurately follow the Koran. They don't.

 

[Azih]

The only difference I can see is that one is done by Saudis and one is done by Westerners.

"We love our Prophet so don't dare draw him!!!! But we are just fine with knocking down the buildings that are a direct link to him and his time! And muslim scholars advocating flattening the graves themselves? A-OK IN OUR BOOK!"

 

[shinobi602]

Some Wahabi scholars might want to destroy the actual graves. But that isn't what is happening. They are expanding the mosque, not destroying the graves of the Prophet or his companions.

You mean the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia himself.

 

[Onion_Relish]

Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them. Fuck them.

I fucking want them off the face of this planet. I'd rather nuke the fuck out of them before they even get to touch his grave.

Now this, THIS, is a post. You would rather use a nuclear weapon on his tomb then let some people build a mall on it? That's gangster.

Frankly, I am all for the desecration of religious sites. While I appreciate their historical importance and in many cases their beauty (y'all trippin if you don't thin the blue mosque is awe-inspiring) the less of them there are, the less likely people are to become all upset about their religion. If Saudis are the ones actually destroying Mecca, hopefully Muslims will direct some of their hatred inwards rather than towards the west.

 

[phosphor112]

Now this, THIS, is a post. You would rather use a nuclear weapon on his tomb then let some people build a mall on it? That's gangster.

Frankly, I am all for the desecration of religious sites. While I appreciate their historical importance and in many cases their beauty (y'all trippin if you don't thin the blue mosque is awe-inspiring) the less of them there are, the less likely people are to become all upset about their religion. If Saudis are the ones actually destroying Mecca, hopefully Muslims will direct some of their hatred inwards rather than towards the west.

Nah, just one of those handheld nukes on their palace. It's far enough. MGS3 style.

 

[TimeEffect]

I dont understand the history here. Aren't these Saudis Muslim? How are other muslims not rioting and acting against this? How could they desecrate such an important place without consequence?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Nah, just one of those handheld nukes on their palace. It's far enough.

If only there was some being who could create explosions with a thought that would do it for you.

 

[shinobi602]

I dont understand the history here. Aren't these Saudis Muslim? How are other muslims not rioting and acting against this? How could they desecrate such an important place without consequence?

They're Wahhabi Muslims (brought to power in the 1800s courtesy of the Brits) who consider everything idolatry, even a freaking grave marker.

 

[cameron]

Organizations like CyArk need to get in there and take 3D scans of sites before they are demolished. At least, that way, we'll have a virtual preservation of the architectural works.

 

[Unregistered007]

.

 

[RiZ III]

The Saudis have destroyed almost all of historical Mecca and Medina. It's pretty sad as a Muslim. I wish Muslim countries would say something..

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Someone should really change the thread title.

If only there was some being who could create explosions with a thought that would do it for you.

??

 

[xbhaskarx]

So that is what comes right next to Kaba.

WTF

Some serious Final Fantasy shit in the head of that architect. I will not comment on actual development, that one is beyond words.

Good thread about this lunacy at Skyscrapercity.

Who is this architect and why is he so terrible

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Why is it that all these Muslim buildings and designs look pure evil to me? is it just because I've been raised an white american and the media has conditioned me to see middle eastern design as evil, or is there something wrong with me on a aesthetic level, or do Muslims share this view as well?

Man. Can't wait for the next generation of western culture where Islamophobia is built-in to kids and we hear stuff like this all the time.

 

[Azih]

I dont understand the history here. Aren't these Saudis Muslim? How are other muslims not rioting and acting against this? How could they desecrate such an important place without consequence?

The muslims that tend to riot when riled up are led by conservative imams who more often than not are pro Saudi.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Who is this architect and why is he so terrible

Blame Notch.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Blame Notch.

I'm now wondering if someone has build the Masjid al-Haram out of wool in Minecraft.

 

[Ydahs]

Okay, after a bit of research, the expansion is taking place to the western and eastern side of the mosque. It will replace existing buildings such as hotels which will be built elsewhere. The prophet's tomb is already inside the mosque, but is on the outer edge. So to expand in that direction means to knock down the burial site or to build around it. The details of the actual expansion are here.

It seems that the original source to this is The Independent as a couple other articles point to it. The article only mentions that the graves are located in the area being developed, it makes no mention of them being razed. The focus seems to be on the mosques being destroyed, not the graves. The call for the flattening of the graves occurred five years ago, but I guess now's a perfect time to bring it up again. The next few months should be interesting... though hopefully sanity prevails.

Also, it turns out the Prophet's wife's house didn't have a public toilet built on top, though it was rumoured to be planned:

The House of Khadijah bint Khuwaylid in Makkah was demolished and paved over and several public protests were heard at the building of a public toilet on the same site[citation needed]

Source: Destruction of early Islamic heritage sites

Nice to hear Saudis standing up against such plans.

Not at all, only in a very Salafi/Wahhabi conception of Islam (which only started spreading very recently in history).

All of these buildings were *built by muslims* in the first place!

Are you sure? I've heard it from Sunnis and even my parents who despise Salafi teachings share the same view regarding burials and fancy tombs.

 

[Drencrom]

The concept of religious people having double standards isn't exactly new.

 

[Azih]

Are you sure? I've heard it from Sunnis and even my parents who despise Salafi teachings share the same view regarding burials and fancy tombs.

Yeah, after all, all of these tombs and burial places were built by Muslims in the first place.

I'm making a distinction between not approving of venerating tombs and burial places (I can see the reasoning of that) and approving of knocking them down and destroying them.

 

[dark_chris]

Yeah that looks decent to me, though I dont find it overal pleasing. The spires/ordiments on top the towers look evil.

Things like this just all look like torture/death/hell to me:

I can appreciate them from a grand scale sense, but the style just does not work with me at all. The more I think about it, the more I seem to associate hell with dry/crowded places and designs. Luckily my opinion does not matter one bit in these things and I'm sure the people who build them/worship in them love them

Man, you need to go to these places. They are beautiful!

 

[coldvein]

... er, that's an orthodox cathedral?

oh duh lol.

......

@phosphor: god damn dude, calm down, no need to nuke anybody

 

[strobogo]

Islamic architecture is definitely my favorite of the Abrahamic faiths. Christian buildings always bugged me. Way too many points and jagged edges. I went to the Vatican and actually thought it was shockingly decadent and gaudy.

If there is one thing Muslims do better than Christians, it's build some awesome ass buildings. I like their style.

 

[Dead Man]

Islamic architecture is definitely my favorite of the Abrahamic faiths. Christian buildings always bugged me. Way too many points and jagged edges. I went to the Vatican and actually thought it was shockingly decadent and gaudy.

If there is one thing Muslims do better than Christians, it's build some awesome ass buildings. I like their style.

I think that is more a specific European era and style, the African Christians made some cool as hell buildings that are very different in style:

 

[coldvein]

I think that is more a specific European era and style, the African Christians made some cool as hell buildings that are very different in style:

that is rad.

 

[Dead Man]

that is rad.

Yes it is.

 

[Plywood]

Death to America.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

I find it ironic. Personally, I want cartoons to troll Mohammed but I don't want an historic site to be razed.

 

[PK Gaming]

Unbelievable, and a bit scary. Fallout could be huge (or not).

Either way, I can't say I agree with this at all.

 

[GungHo]

Yeah that looks decent to me, though I dont find it overal pleasing. The spires/ordiments on top the towers look evil.

Things like this just all look like torture/death/hell to me:

I can appreciate them from a grand scale sense, but the style just does not work with me at all. The more I think about it, the more I seem to associate hell with dry/crowded places and designs. Luckily my opinion does not matter one bit in these things and I'm sure the people who build them/worship in them love them

I respect any architect who has the consideration to put nipples on his buildings.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I respect any architect who has the consideration to put nipples on his buildings.

They are called Domes...

 

[GungHo]

They are called Domes...

No... the dome is the structure. I am very specifically noting the austentatious gilded ornamentation on top of said dome.

And furthermore, I've actually been to the Sultan Ahmed Mosque, though my favorite mosque is probably the Sultan Salahuddin Abdul Aziz Shah Mosque.

 

[Glasswork]

Certainly looks better than the renders and it's consistent with Islamic architecture. What I don't get are the wooden boxes. They look so out of place.

I guess if you're unfamiliar with Hijazi architecture they can seem out of place, but those things (mashrabiyat) are pretty common there.

Also I guess I'm the only one that thinks those building look rather nice... huh.

 

[BocoDragon]

So you're so against idolatry..... At a place where people encircle a sacred rock...?

Okay......

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

So you're so against idolatry..... At a place where people encircle a sacred rock...?

Okay......

The rock has no significance at all.
The people encircle the empty cubical building. But I can see how one could make the same argument for it as well.