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nukedeggs

Member
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199210272&postcount=1293

His response to the Scrafty thing. I'm willing to believe Scrafty's claim is legit. Especially since my initial theory about Kalor hiding on her has been proven false. Assuming Scrafty is town, I don't think scum would have gone for her over Seath. Seath especially seemed to be claiming ordinary. Scum would want Scrafty gone.

The ordinary claim was very strange, as many people have pointed out at the time. Scum, in my opinion, would have gone after Seath. I'm just going to say what I said earlier.

Why [would Seath] claim so early? Based on Seath’s wording (‘that’s just how I roll’), it sounded like their claim was entirely intended and planned. It honestly didn’t feel like something that a random vanilla townie would just do out of the blue. For town, this suggests that they could likely be scum or a Town PR. But for scum...well, they’d know that Seath isn’t scum. So then Seath becomes a pretty good target for scum.
 
The ordinary claim was very strange, as many people have pointed out at the time. Scum, in my opinion, would have gone after Seath. I'm just going to say what I said earlier.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here then. I think it is more likely scum would have gone for Scrafty than Seath. Yesterday would have been the prime time to get rid of someone who claims to be immune to NK.
 

nukedeggs

Member
Salva, you're unusually on the edge.
Hey Bronx-Man. Couldn't help but to notice that you've been dodging these questions:

I'd really like Bronx-man to speak up, I didn't feel good about Bowlie before he was replaced. It was mostly fluff from his end.

Bronx-man give us those sick day 1 and early day 2 feels.

Cause he was a vigilante with the ability to kill her or one of her team.

VOTE: Bronx-man

Can I get a summary of day one from you, please friendo. I assume you've caught up over the night phase.

Top scum? Thoughts on the claims and such?

Magnum claimed Vigilante on D1.

Anyways, now that you're caught up, do you have any thoughts? Anyone who you think looks scummy?

Why? Waiting for your scum buddies to approve your reads?
 
Oh christ

Man, I don't even know where to start with this, I guess I'll just get some initial reactions out

I suppose Retro could've been the heel kill, claiming Rock I imagine would make them nervous about what his power would be and thought to get him out of the way ASAP

Kalor I would assume was due to the hiding, having 4 killers would make for a very short game. That said, I don't know why he wouldn't have picked Squid or Blarg? Unless he did and someone's lying? But nin was involved in Squid's role so I have no idea how that would've worked out. Or he thought Magnum was a safe bet as Squid and Blarg seemed like they could get NK'd? Or or he picked someone entirely different who he trusted and was wrong?

*Splinter and Magnum I have no fucking idea. Maybe Magnum took out Retro as he was high on town's suspect list and the heels killed Magnum since he could've taken one of them out. But then Splinter. Splinter's weird, I'll need to have a look back to see if I can see anything. The only thing I can think of right now is that it's a neutral kill who just picked off a random person
 

Palmer_v1

Member
I've gone long enough without an active vote. The person I'm most concerned about right now is Stanley. I know timezones and everything, but for now:

Vote: StanleyPalmtree

Partially for low activity, but mostly because he seemed so tunneled in on getting rid of Retro. I really want to see his thoughts for today.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Hey Bronx-Man. Couldn't help but to notice that you've been dodging these questions:

Why? Waiting for your scum buddies to approve your reads?
I already said that you look pretty scummy to me, same with Salva. You two are the only ones I've got a handle on so far.
 

nukedeggs

Member
I already said that you look pretty scummy to me, same with Salva. You two are the only ones I've got a handle on so far.

Care to elaborate on your thoughts about the events that happened D1? There are a lot of people involved in this game, so surely you must have some opinions of them. For example, Squidy and Kawl's feud, the rush of votes and how that played out at the end of D1, etc.
 

SalvaPot

Member
Salva, you're unusually on the edge.

This is how I play, its also the reason why I am always lynched early on. I like to keep posting the ideas that come to mind and elaborate on them when questioned. For some reason my eagerness to play its always seen as scummy, since calculated risks are not my thing.
 

Bronx-Man

Banned
Care to elaborate on your thoughts about the events that happened D1? There are a lot of people involved in this game, so surely you must have some opinions of them. For example, Squidy and Kawl's feud, the rush of votes and how that played out at the end of D1, etc.
Here's my response:

tumblr_n8m6wbDWUE1sodzggo1_500.gif
 

Burbeting

Banned
Hey Palmer, why did you vote Scrafty 12 minutes before day end, and then shift it to Seath just few minutes later without any explanation?

You know, I want to fill in blanks so I wont start to believe there was some scum-wide push to save Scrafty...
 

Burbeting

Banned
It might have been a conscious bus attempt, until realising that there is a possibility to still save her with that sudden Seath push. You guys even got a PR pushed out conveniently.
 

nukedeggs

Member
It might have been a conscious bus attempt, until realising that there is a possibility to still save her with that sudden Seath push. You guys even got a PR pushed out conveniently.

Yeah I was thinking something similar. Burb, any thoughts on this post?

Big pre written post here so it doesn't take into account some of the deaths.

So I was thinking over what the heck happened D1, and I’ve got some ideas.

Firstly, let’s think about what scum were thinking about during the day. Chances are, it’ll be about digging around for information on power roles to decide who to NK. When Seath claimed normal town, they also probably thought it was suspicious. Why claim so early? Based on Seath’s wording (‘that’s just how I roll’), it sounded like their claim was entirely intended and planned. It honestly didn’t feel like something that a random vanilla townie would just do out of the blue. For town, this suggests that they could likely be scum or a Town PR. But for scum...well, they’d know that Seath isn’t scum. So then Seath becomes a pretty good target for scum.

But there’s even more: Seath had been relatively quiet, but still seemed to be keeping up with the game (a feeling I get based on how they answered my questions). It felt like it could have been because they’re scum, but scum would be thinking that it was because Seath was a power role. But hey, Seath’s been pretty suspicious to town as well…for the same exact reasons that scum would think Seath’s a PR. So scum probably thought: “How about we try to swing votes over to Seath? Maybe we can get enough votes to make them want to claim. We’d probably get enough support from Town to make it work.” Turns out it was even better – they ended up gathering enough votes to actually cause Seath to be lynched.

So what does this mean? Firstly, it could be that Magnum and/or Retro and/or Scrafty are scum. If only one is scum, then scum has the choice of bussing and shifting votes onto one of the town. Bussing would improve their credibility but sacrifice a member, while shifting votes onto a town would increase suspicion on those that shifted their vote, since both had claimed already. But switching their votes to an unrelated, already suspicious town like Seath would be effectively getting a PR kill for free, while still being able to easily get out of suspicion. Seath was being sketchy for town anyway, so it’s not so inconceivable for it to be an honest mistake. And they’d be able to use their kill on some of the other suspected town PRs. Or maybe even just someone who has been quiet and under the radar. This is probably a good enough reason to make this play, even if none of Magnum/Retro/Scrafty are actually scum.

Since it seemed like this play had so much value for scum, I feel relatively confident in guessing there were likely one or two scum on that Seath swing. Particularly suspicious in my eyes would be Terra, Salva, and Palmer. Palmer was quite focused on getting a Seath lynch earlier, Salva and Terra voted almost at the same time, which helped the Seath wagon gain traction (as it was only after those two votes that the Seath wagon started speeding up I believe), and Terra and Palmer both were looking to convince town of reasons to vote Seath at a time when Salva had heat.

I would also like to point out Salva’s post:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199210724&postcount=1313
This is reasoning that scum would be thinking as well as town, maybe even more from a scum perspective than a town perspective given that there’s nothing here about what Seath did or did not do for Town – this was purely based on Seath’s ordinary claim, which scum would pretty focused on. Given that I had suspicions of Salva being scum earlier in the day, this doesn’t really help his case in my eyes.

Note Matt Attack, RobotNinjaHornet, and Terra’s responses in contrast. All of them mentioned Seath’s contributions to Town (or lack thereof) of being a reason for lynching. Scum wouldn’t care about this kind of stuff. Scum would care about the ordinary claim.

Vote: SalvaPot
 

Palmer_v1

Member
Hey Palmer, why did you vote Scrafty 12 minutes before day end, and then shift it to Seath just few minutes later without any explanation?

You know, I want to fill in blanks so I wont start to believe there was some scum-wide push to save Scrafty...

Basically, I wasn't keeping up with the actual votes as well as I thought.

Seath was always who i thought was most suspicious, and I thought the Ordinary claim meant it was safer if I was wrong. I wavered on Scrafty yesterday, but I really thought it was a choice between Magnum and Scrafty at the point that I voted for her. I found her claim less believable than Magnum's. In the meantime, there was a sudden switch of votes to Seath, so once I noticed that, I went back.

I'm waiting to see what she posts today before I make any further decisions.
 

Burbeting

Banned
If Scrafty is town, that would mean all main d1 candidates were town. That would mean for Scum that they could easily switch their votes around as the situation changed, since none of them were in danger of dying. Where there any voters that seemed to not be too sure about their votes, and just threw them around all over the place?

This is assuming Scrafty is town, obviously.
 

Burbeting

Banned
Basically, I wasn't keeping up with the actual votes as well as I thought.

Seath was always who i thought was most suspicious, and I thought the Ordinary claim meant it was safer if I was wrong. I wavered on Scrafty yesterday, but I really thought it was a choice between Magnum and Scrafty at the point that I voted for her. I found her claim less believable than Magnum's. In the meantime, there was a sudden switch of votes to Seath, so once I noticed that, I went back.

I'm waiting to see what she posts today before I make any further decisions.

Can you quote me the posts where you say Seath is most suspicious in d1? Because I can't remember you taking thay stance at least too loudly, but thay might be because of the high amount of posts in d1.
 
If Scrafty is town, that would mean all main d1 candidates were town. That would mean for Scum that they could easily switch their votes around as the situation changed, since none of them were in danger of dying. Where there any voters that seemed to not be too sure about their votes, and just threw them around all over the place?

This is assuming Scrafty is town, obviously.

https://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=199214010&postcount=1389

I g2g to dinner so I don't have time to sift through it yet, but I think if you want to comb over this it would be best to look at votes past the 900 mark (end day starts to hit around then I think), and ignore votes on Blarg since that was squidy's request.
 

Palmer_v1

Member
It might have been a conscious bus attempt, until realising that there is a possibility to still save her with that sudden Seath push. You guys even got a PR pushed out conveniently.

The plan you're implying doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If I wanted to bus someone to save Scrafty, magnum made for a much better target. I mean, He was a Vig claim. If I were scum, I would know that was very likely a real claim, and town was certainly making it easy to bandwagon him.
 

Burbeting

Banned
For nuked eggs, I already said that salva changed his vote to Scrafty, although a little too late. Another thing I might bit disagree with was the original claim. Lot of times in the past ordinaries really have claimed ordinaries here, even though it is stupid play in my opinion. Seath also is quite... eccentric Player, so it wouldn't have been completely out of the realm of possibility to this as an ordinary player. I think that some others might agree with me.

But that still raises the question. If Scum were thinking Seath was ordinary after all, would they push the vote from the PR claimer scrafty, towards ordinary claimer Seath. If Scrafty is scum, this obviously makes sense, Seath was seen as suspicious as many, and had claimed ordinary, so pushing for him would be normal. But if Scrafty is town pr... It would be odd to take the votes off her, towards someone claiming ordinary.
 

Burbeting

Banned
The plan you're implying doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If I wanted to bus someone to save Scrafty, magnum made for a much better target. I mean, He was a Vig claim. If I were scum, I would know that was very likely a real claim, and town was certainly making it easy to bandwagon him.

It makes more sense to bandwagon on ordinary claim than PR claim from scum perspective. Piling up on Magnum would have looked very bad today on you.
 

nukedeggs

Member
If Scrafty is town, that would mean all main d1 candidates were town. That would mean for Scum that they could easily switch their votes around as the situation changed, since none of them were in danger of dying. Where there any voters that seemed to not be too sure about their votes, and just threw them around all over the place?

This is assuming Scrafty is town, obviously.
I can see a scenario where Scrafty was town. She was getting an awful lot of heat, almost unanimous really, and the only person who really gave pushback was Retro, who flipped Town. Given my pet theory of scum controlling Town narrative, it seems like scum could be directing Town attention to Scrafty.

The plan you're implying doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If I wanted to bus someone to save Scrafty, magnum made for a much better target. I mean, He was a Vig claim. If I were scum, I would know that was very likely a real claim, and town was certainly making it easy to bandwagon him.
If you were scum, you'd know that Seath was Town too, and their hasty ordinary claim would probably also stick out to you.
 

Palmer_v1

Member
If Scrafty is town, that would mean all main d1 candidates were town. That would mean for Scum that they could easily switch their votes around as the situation changed, since none of them were in danger of dying. Where there any voters that seemed to not be too sure about their votes, and just threw them around all over the place?

This is assuming Scrafty is town, obviously.

Salva is the other person that I truly think was in danger of getting bandwagoned suddenly. I pushed for Seath, and people latched onto it.
 

Palmer_v1

Member
It makes more sense to bandwagon on ordinary claim than PR claim from scum perspective. Piling up on Magnum would have looked very bad today on you.

If I was protecting Scrafty and she flips scum, it doesn't matter WHO I voted for. You're in WIFOM territory here.
 

Burbeting

Banned
If I was protecting Scrafty and she flips scum, it doesn't matter WHO I voted for. You're in WIFOM territory here.

It's just a theory at this point. We won't obtain more meaningful information until Scrafty either flips or is proven to be town/scum some other way. But it's clear something weird happened yesterday, and we lost town pr for it. I refuse to believe it was just town fucking up collectively.
 

Palmer_v1

Member
Ah, true. I forgot he was claiming Day Cop.

I'm still willing to just wait and see with Squidyj. I hate that he's probably going to make us waste powers protecting him by not just using it today. I don't really get why he claimed it so soon. It's weird for Town to do it, but even weirder for Scum to have done it. I will vote for him tomorrow with no reservations if he continues to sit on his claim with no results though.

For Burb, I feel like he's been trying to scum hunt, whether I agree with his particular choices or not, so for now:

Unvote

Vote: Seath

You've just seemed... off? Lot of your posts are just odd gif commentary which doesn't help, and your vote felt like it was just latching onto something. Basically, like you're trying to avoid taking much of a stance yourself. You're not the only one that seems to be doing it, but you stood out the most to me.

Unvote

We're flip flopping awfully fast here but I'm glad we're off Kawl. That's an awfully easy bandwagon and the more I thought about it, the less I liked how little info we would get if he flipped town.

Unfortunately, I don't think Salva is scum is either. My main concern is still Seath.

Vote: Seath

My two biggest blindspots right now are Kalor and Stanley, in that I've seen their names and thought, "Oh fuck, they're in this game too!"

That's not ideal.

For scum, Seath is top of my list. I don't really buy this soft claim. I'm also worried about Salvapot and his campaign against squidyj. Scrafty and Retro aren't playing well for town, but I think it's just that. Bad play. Magnum, I'm less sure about. There's also Burb, cause Miller.

For town, I'm 99% sure Squidyj is town. I'm also pretty sure Batsnacks is town. Blarg, while he has a chance of being neutral, is probably town as well. We can't ignore the neutral possibility, but thanks to our win condition, we know that we can win with neutrals. Otherwise, I feel like Cabot is town, though he's not as active as I would expect.

That's all I've got for now, and this is possibly going to be a busy day for me. I always regret not keeping my vote on who I really want lynched, so I'm going back to Seath.

Vote: Seath

Vote: Seath

There were my 4 Seath votes throughout the day. This doesn't include the multiple posts I made regarding him outside of my votes. I'm not going to do all of your work for you here.

If you don't think I was pushing Seath for most of the day, than you're crazy.
 

nukedeggs

Member
As I remember, the two people who have been pushing Seath throughout the day were Palmer and Matt Attack. They at least didn't jump to Seath suddenly, which makes me a little less inclined to see them as scum, though Terra and Palmer's synergy here made me nervous. I'm not sure if scum would be so careless as to have two people post pretty much the same opinion so close to each other on the same page though.

Just caught up. So Squidy was telling the truth, and Blarg is town?

And now there's Salva? I don't know, I kinda read him as town. Most of it is gut, but yeah.

To be honest, after looking back through the thread, the person who really starting to look pretty scummy in my eyes right now is Seath. It just feels like hasn't really contributed... Well, anything really. It feels like he's done less then Magnum, which is not much.

Unvote

We're flip flopping awfully fast here but I'm glad we're off Kawl. That's an awfully easy bandwagon and the more I thought about it, the less I liked how little info we would get if he flipped town.

Unfortunately, I don't think Salva is scum is either. My main concern is still Seath.

Vote: Seath
 
This is how I play, its also the reason why I am always lynched early on. I like to keep posting the ideas that come to mind and elaborate on them when questioned. For some reason my eagerness to play its always seen as scummy, since calculated risks are not my thing.

3bSH559.gif


yep
 

Palmer_v1

Member
It's just a theory at this point. We won't obtain more meaningful information until Scrafty either flips or is proven to be town/scum some other way. But it's clear something weird happened yesterday, and we lost town pr for it. I refuse to believe it was just town fucking up collectively.

From my point of view, we had 7 people that got traction yesterday. RetroMG, Kawl, and Squidyj happened fairly early. Everyone used votes on them to force Squidy to prove he wasn't full of shit, but it got flipped to blarg suddenly. Retro is obviously now confirmed(unless we're REALLY bastard), and blarg and squidyj are mostly cleared. Kawl is still an unknown quantity.

After that, we had Seath, Magnum, Scrafty, and Salva. I felt like there were rublings towards Salva by a lot of people, even though most never voted that way. Seath and magnum have flipped town, leaving Scrafty and Salva. If people switched votes to protect someone, it was probably Scrafty, but Salvapot and Kawl are still worth watching. I'm just more focused on getting activity from everyone right now.

As for myself, I only changed my vote off Seath for two things. One was due to Squidyj's weird claim, and once was to try and protect the Town Vig. I was absolutely trying to bus scrafty at that point, but only because I honestly did not see that my Seath vote had gained so much traction.
 
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