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X360 and HDD

Would Microsoft really fracture the market with two consoles; one with the HDD and one without? I would really be pissed if that were the case and I probably would sit out the next-gen until the HDD capable one came down in price and was considered standard. Your thoughts.
 
My thoughts? We'll find out soon enough.

But watching you guys speculate and argue about it for the next few pages will provide entertainment.
 
MS has said time and time again that it will ship with one SKU, with the 20gig hdd.

they have left the door open for additional skus down the line with larger capacity hdds or other stuff (like the rumored hd-dvd drive).












cloud >>>>> masterchief
 
how does the market become fractured if games don't require a HDD?

MS has said time and time again that it will ship with one SKU, with the 20gig hdd.
Are you sure about that? Is that MS or is that game sites 'reporting' that there is only one.
 
Microsoft will ship with 2 SKU's, one will be an empty plastic X360 shell for $299, the $399 SKU will include the hardware to play games.
 
element said:
how does the market become fractured if games don't require a HDD?

Are you sure about that? Is that MS or is that game sites 'reporting' that there is only one.

yeah, i mean i was, till you questioned me :(

shit, i dont want to have to dig through e3 interviews... someone else, get to work!
 
The kikizo interview with Robbie Bach last month had him saying the exact words "we are shipping with 1 sku". I guess I'll have to download and watch it again so I can give you a time marker. If I knew how to make animated gifs, it would be the very next one I made.
 
I'm downloading it now, here's the highlights of the interview

This sizable video interview comes in at over 25 minutes and covers a whole load of stuff, including some essential new tidbits. The agenda in full:

* Microsoft's first console transition
* More details on the Silver and Gold subscriptions
* What will be new with gameplay - "Gotham TV" etc
* New gameplay ingredient called "approachability" in all games to make games easier for novice players
* Video chat, movies, music integrated into the platform
* 160 titles in development - "great experiences every month"
* Titles at launch and the launch window plan...
* Connectivity - "we want 50% of users subscribed"
* Media Center in the box, including recorded TV shows.
* Plugging in digital cameras and music players via USB
* The launch price. "Ha ha ha!"
* Wireless controllers and wired controllers.
* An adapter for old Xbox controllers?
* Xbox 360 controllers working on PC - a great customer convenience.
* Keyboard support - certainly possible...
* Voice support in titles like Final Fantasy XI
* "The world's best controller"
* Thirdparty controllers
* Two wired controller ports, a step backwards
* How many SKUs [different bundles] at launch? SKU contents?
* Flash memory - 64MB big enough?
* The same Halo 3 / PS3 spoiler question we asked J - as much time as needed...
* Approach to firstparty content changing over the last 3-4 years - "our approach has changed"...
* Fewer firstparty titles, more AAA - thirdparties already offering excellent volume.
* Microsoft's integration team that works across the organisation to make sure the Xbox business plan is in sync and the process works
* The true genius in 360 games - won't be seen until Beta dev kits are out (E3 kits were alpha)
* Worldwide launch - making sure the content is in place...
* Worldwide launch - what else needs to be taken care of for simultaneous roll-out? Logistics?
* Worldwide launch - pricing in different territories? Expected price point in local currency...
* Shortages - how to meet the challenge? "Launch and leave mentality"
* The 2005/2006 software line-up for existing Xbox users... "our best line-up ever"
* Xbox Live on the existing Xbox
* The future of the Xbox business - market leadership within five years
* "The idea of interactive entertainment will be fundamentally very different to what it is today..." - Xbox in 10-15 years.

Our thanks to Robbie for his time.

Adam Doree


I don't give a rat's ass what any analyst on the planet may THINK he knows or what he doesn't know. These are the exact words straight from the horse's mouth and it doesn't get any clearer than this unless Bill Gates puts up a billboard outside your window.
 
I don't think it'd negatively affect what's available on the system.I think the potential commercial gain from the market of HDD-owning people will be enough to motivate devs to make available downloadable content (if they're charging for it). Think about it, even if maybe 20% of your market can download that stuff, that's still millions of people, and your margins on such content would be very high. Not to mention if such stuff can be done with other removeable media - which doubtless should happen - and the HDD is just a bigger version of that media.

As for games that really truly and absolutely need a HDD, as far as I can see they're quite few and far between. MMORPGs, possibly (although as far as I can tell, from my WoW install at least, the space it requires is in the hundreds of MBs vs GBs - currently it's added about 180MB to its folder, I'm guessing - which could be accomodated on memsticks. Although I've no idea what the breakdown of that is, and if it could be more efficient - and I'm not sure if that figure grows over time.). If removeable/portable media is cheap enough and large enough, you could market a MMORPG to the entire userbase I think, although others may have a better idea of their requirements than I.
 
Selling one version with a HDD and one without isn't really fracturing the userbase though.

You can only fracture a userbase when certain games will only run if a specific peripheral exists.

The HDD (or lack thereoff in some cases) in no way prohibits any of the games from running because all games are supposed to run even if the HDD isn't there. The HDD for the 360 is really just a giant memory card.

The only thing that might happen if MS sells two flavors of the system is that some devs may decide to get lazy and not put in code that will allow you to stream from the HDD if it exists... but that is a pretty big if IMO. I'd imagine the code to do something like that would be pretty simple to write and execute and it would be pretty recyclable from game to game.
 
element said:
Are you sure about that? Is that MS or is that game sites 'reporting' that there is only one.

Steve Ballmer said:
So just one configuration is targeted for the Holiday release?

Yeah, given that we know we’re going to have to hustle to produce all that people are going to want, that kind of keeps life a lot simpler for the retailers. If you said, “Look we’re coming to market with three configurations, and we were in short supply, and we got the wrong mix of configurations,” it would just compound all the problems. We’re really quite excited about the proposition for having just the one configuration in market particularly for this holiday.

As for after launch, I expect more configurations but I don't really care as I'll have mine. I think the harddrive is overrated as anything other than a huge memory card anyways (but that, by itself, is very important to me).

bill0527 said:
I'm downloading it now, here's the highlights of the interview

He just says they haven't announced anything on the SKU front and "probably won't"
 
Ok, I just watched that part of the interview again and me=pwned, but here's what he said at the 15:26 mark...

He didn't specifically say that they were shipping with only 1 sku. He said that they are "focusing" on one sku which includes the headset, remote, wireless controller, and the hard disc drive.
 
So this is still a hot topic of discussion, eh? At E3, J Allard and Robbie Bach from Microsoft stated that the 20 gb HDD would come with the system, stating it's an integral part of the Xbox Live experience.
 
at the press conference, all J said was 'it has a hard drive', never said 'includes a hard drive'

wording difference, perhaps even a conspiracy.
 
BuddyC said:
My thoughts? We'll find out soon enough.

But watching you guys speculate and argue about it for the next few pages will provide entertainment.

:lol


My answer to the question though is - MS isn't that fucking stupid.
 
Dr_Cogent said:
:lol


My answer to the question though is - MS isn't that fucking stupid.

I'm inclined to agree. There is no reason to not include an HDD in 360. They are pushing xbox live, download content, XBL marketplace, custom levels, MMORPGs the whole 9 yards. The main Xbox 360 (and possibly only) SKU will include an HDD.

And why would they make a budget SKU when there will be limited quantities of 360s this fall? I have a feeling it will sell out the 1st day / week of release (in the U.S. at least)... no reason to do that shit yet. Now when PS3 comes out....

And to back up my prediction:

To enable media cross-pollination, the Xbox 360 will ship with a removable factory-standard 20GB hard drive (about twice the size of the first Xbox drive). When asked about the rampant rumors of different Xbox 360 SKUs, some offering a barebones package sans hard drive, J Allard was adamant about their currently strategy, but left it up in the air for future post-launch iterations of the system. "Who knows? We talk to retailers, we start taking orders, Japan says, 'What we really wanna do is have a 60-gig hard drive and a wired controller,' something like that. The system's so flexible that until we start stuffing them in boxes, nothing's for sure. But we wanted to be flexible worldwide, so current thinking is we have one worldwide offering. So far retailers and marketing all agree that that's the right base configuration for launch. And then it's probably not until the next holiday that we start mixing it up. But we never say never."

http://xbox360.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=3&cId=3140209
 
element said:
at the press conference, all J said was 'it has a hard drive', never said 'includes a hard drive'

wording difference, perhaps even a conspiracy.

Agreed. They also wrote it on the box just to confuse people further :)
 
Just to add some clarification:

The report that has prompted all of this NEVER stated it wouldn't come out without an HDD. Just that the bundle would have a collection of items including the HDD. They could have meant a larger capacity or simply restated the component for some reason.

I think it's a good 99.9% chance that the 360 will come with the HDD. The speculation is more about Microsoft's insistence in various interviews to say it's not mandatory for games or Xbox Live, which has raised curiosity, despite stating it will be standard.

It's a big todo about nothing, IMO.
 
If they try to sell a 360 sans harddrive for $300 then that's a no purchase for me at least this holiday season.
 
It seems to me that there probably WILL be two SKUs for X360 this fall...and the cheaper of the two likely would not include a HDD. Why else would MS go out of its way to note that it would not be a requirement for various applications? If it were standard, there would be NO reason to issue such statements.
 
dark10x said:
It seems to me that there probably WILL be two SKUs for X360 this fall...and the cheaper of the two likely would not include a HDD. Why else would MS go out of its way to note that it would not be a requirement for various applications? If it were standard, there would be NO reason to issue such statements.

Because the generation doesn't end this fall. There will be one SKU at launch, for the very reason Ballmer cited (as quoted above). In the future they may decide not to include the drive.
 
krypt0nian said:
Aren't there some xbox games that require the HDD to function? BC would seem to depend on it.

Well that, and the profiles for BC being stored on the drive. Later in the lifecycle BC will be less important though.
 
I'm still skeptical, but we'll see...

I wish there was something more concrete to go off of. Didn't they recently reveal what was to be included in a standard X360 bundle at some conference? Did they mention the HDD?

krypt0nian said:
Aren't there some xbox games that require the HDD to function? BC would seem to depend on it.
See, that almost would make the HDD seem like an accessory which enables BC. Kinda like the current remote control does for XBOX and DVD playback. Buy the HDD, play old XBOX games. Makes sense.
 
dark10x said:
See, that almost would make the HDD seem like an accessory which enables BC. Kinda like the current remote control does for XBOX and DVD playback. Buy the HDD, play old XBOX games. Makes sense.

Actually that makes more of a case for included HDD IMO. Are they going to piss off the xboxers by requiring an extra purchace to play Halo2?
 
krypt0nian said:
Actually that makes more of a case for included HDD IMO. Are they going to piss off the xboxers by requiring an extra purchace to play Halo2?
Who knows, but I wouldn't put it past them...

I'm not going to allow myself to get my hopes up only to have them dashed down (though I'd buy whatever version includes an HDD anyways...soooo...).

Yes and yes
OK, link? At the very least, I'd love to see some pictures of the packaging.
 
sangreal said:
Interesting...

What about video options? Will they at least include component cables out of the box? I had originally heard that this was the case, but I recall a recent thread claiming that it had changed. What's the current situation?

I would also like to know...

Have they revealed if the wireless controllers are rechargeable or not? I see battery pack on that list and was just wondering the controllers out of the box are rechargeable or not.
 
Have they revealed if the wireless controllers are rechargeable or not? I see battery pack on that list and was just wondering the controllers out of the box are rechargeable or not.
 
dark10x said:
Interesting...

What about video options? Will they at least include component cables out of the box? I had originally heard that this was the case, but I recall a recent thread claiming that it had changed. What's the current situation?

What type of video connections will the Xbox 360 support right out of the box? What other options will be available?

Todd Holmdahl: Out of the box (North America), we will support component video (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) and composite video (all worldwide variations). Aftermarket AV cables will add support for S-video, enhanced SCART RGB, and VGA.

http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p1/

The component and composite videos are in one cable, btw.

Ponn01 said:
Have they revealed if the wireless controllers are rechargeable or not? I see battery pack on that list and was just wondering the controllers out of the box are rechargeable or not.

The controllers are rechargeable with the Play & Charge cable (as well as a seperate battery charger). No idea if it comes with one.
 
Ponn01 said:
Have they revealed if the wireless controllers are rechargeable or not? I see battery pack on that list and was just wondering the controllers out of the box are rechargeable or not.
I think the rechargeable pack is sold seperate and the controller out of the box comes with reg. AA batts.
 
dark10x said:
Interesting...

What about video options? Will they at least include component cables out of the box? I had originally heard that this was the case, but I recall a recent thread claiming that it had changed. What's the current situation?

I would also like to know...

Alright, I'm not going to dig up the link, but there is one at Gamespot that confirms Microsoft is shipping X360 with a composite/component combo cable. They've even got pictures of it.
 
I don't know what the point element keeps trying to make is. Is it just that MS has been vague and left wiggle room to yank the HDD out of the standard box at anytime or is it that MS intends to sell the 360 at launch or soon after without a HDD.


MS definitely is hiding something regarding the SKU issue. If you watch the Kikizo interview with Robbie Bach (15:30).


Kikizo: About the HDD.... And are there 2 SKU's?

Bach: We haven't announced anything on the SKU front. Uh umm and probably won't. We have a lot of flexibility there. I think Sony's reconfigured the PS2 probably 6 different times. Uh and so we're just maintaining our flexibility, seeing what the market place wants. We're getting a lot of feedback here at the show from people. The focus right now is the SKU you see here with the headset, the remote, and the wireless controller, and the hard disk.

So there are no guarantees that the Xbox 360 will always be sold with a HDD at launch or there after. There will definitely be an SKU sold at launch that includes a HDD, but there are no guarantees that that SKU is permanent or that additional SKU's won't be available without the HDD.


As far as the HDD being nothing other than a large memory card, that is not true. Developers can still use the HDD for caching and improving their games performance, they simply can't require their games to use the HDD. As far as Backwards Compatibility, there are no guarantees that every SKU sold will support BC out of the box.
 
---- said:
I don't know what the point element keeps trying to make is. Is it just that MS has been vague and left wiggle room to yank the HDD out of the standard box at anytime or is it that MS intends to sell the 360 at launch or soon after without a HDD.


MS definitely is hiding something regarding the SKU issue. If you watch the Kikizo interview with Robbie Bach (15:30).



So there are no guarantees that the Xbox 360 will always be sold with a HDD at launch or there after.

That is what Bach said during that interview, yes. But see Ballmer's quote above
 
bill0527 said:
Alright, I'm not going to dig up the link, but there is one at Gamespot that confirms Microsoft is shipping X360 with a composite/component combo cable. They've even got pictures of it.


Ok, I said I wasn't going to dig up the link, but I found it real quick.

Here

The Xbox 360 Component HD AV Cable is an “all-in-one” solution for both Hi-Definition TVs that use component video input and Standard Definition TVs that use composite video input. The Component HD AV Cable provides optimal audio and video signal transfer, so you’ll experience true next-generation gaming. It’s important to note that this is the featured cable that is included with the Xbox 360 console.


and here
 
sangreal said:
That is what Bach said during that interview, yes. But see Ballmer's quote above
So it launches with a HDD, but down the line the HDD may be removed.

This fits together with MS saying that their market research shows that backwards compatibility was only an important feature to early adopters of new hardware, but a feature that becomes less important over time.
 
sangreal said:
Because the generation doesn't end this fall. There will be one SKU at launch, for the very reason Ballmer cited (as quoted above). In the future they may decide not to include the drive.

why would they choose to not include the hard drive in the future? it can't be for cost effectiveness seeing that in the future manufacturing the hard drives would be cheaper it would make more sense that in the future they could mark it down (or start selling systems at a profit), add more accessories to the system like a remote, or add HD-DVD drives w/ out a raise in price
 
it can't be for cost effectiveness seeing that in the future manufacturing the hard drives would be cheaper
I see you know very little about hard drive manufacturing... :D
 
You know what I think is funny about this whole HDD thing is, before I was using it as a reason not to get the x360... hoping they wouldn't include it to make waiting for the PS3 easier... now that I have deceided to get one for FFXI - I really hope its in there with a $299 launch price :lol
 
bill0527 said:
But I just read in that other thread about Enchant Arm, that the developer is using the HDD to cache.

Using and requiring are two different things.

/Element ;)

I guess Enchant Arm will work without the HDD, just perhaps with longer loads or..?
 
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