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[disabledHeliocentric]

If Microsoft launches strong they will do well. They have actual credibility in the console biz now. Last time they did not. If Nintendo can launch strongly around when PS3 launches a year later, heh, that might help Microsoft too. If Sony has the most powerful platform that could hurt Microsoft. While XBox lacks the diverse library of games the ps2 has it did handle PC ports nicely and it had the best version of, say, Splinter Cell. Now all of a sudden PS3 could have the best PC port, the best version of every big multi platform game, and the support from Japan. Somehow I figure Sony will succeed in making a system less hospitable to PC ports than XNA, yet if they did that could sway a lot of xbox people to PS3 assuming its hardware is more powerful.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

If Sony has the most powerful platform that could hurt Microsoft.

How and in what way? Even if Nintendo or Sony have techincally-superior machines, doesn't hype and marketing drive the signed, sealed, delivered conclusions to the potential fanbase, anyway? Or is that what you mean?

 

[TheGreenGiant]

I tell you what'll hurt MS chances... Sony will still get the US games. That's a fact. SONY however will also get the Jap games.

A winner the the owner of the PS3.

N5 = wildcard.

 

[seismologist]

Technically the systems might be close but PS3 will look more impressive at the unveiling. Mainly because Xenon will mostly be american devs and PC ports.
Sony will probably show some Japanese made stuff that's totally pushing the graphics boundaries.

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

I tell you what'll hurt MS chances... Sony will still get the US games. That's a fact. SONY however will also get the Jap games.
.

IAWTP. Plus Sony could have the best version of the multi platform games and the PC ports if they played their cards right. And that's why the power of PS3 is so signifigant.

 

[sonycowboy]

IAWTP. Plus Sony could have the best version of the multi platform games and the PC ports if they played their cards right. And that's why the power of PS3 is so signifigant.

It will really depend on the software tools Sony provides. If the developers have to fight with the system for the first year, the differences will be downplayed and developers will prefer XNA.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Assuming a realistic (IMO) outcome where the difference in capability between the MS and Sony machines is largely insignificant, ease of development will win out. This is MS' true strength in the console arena. With the rising costs of development becoming more of a real issue this gen (notice all of those buyouts and the general move toward consolidation and the increase in multiplatform releases?), the issue will largely be about cost-effective development, IMO.

 

[sonycowboy]

Assuming a realistic (IMO) outcome where the difference in capability between the MS and Sony machines is largely insignificant, ease of development will win out. This is MS' true strength in the console arena. With the rising costs of development becoming more of a real issue this gen (notice all of those buyouts and the general move toward consolidation and the increase in multiplatform releases?), the issue will largely be about cost-effective development, IMO.

The majority of the costs are not developer coding. It's the tremendous amount of content that you need to put into games nowadays. However, developers have a very special place and are given the majority of the credit for the quality of the games, and thus they have a tremendous amount of say as to which environment they prefer to work in.

However, while costs are substantial, as a percentage it's hardly an issue about cost-effectiveness.

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

It will really depend on the software tools Sony provides. If the developers have to fight with the system for the first year, the differences will be downplayed and developers will prefer XNA.

This is where the question of if Sony is going to make smart decisions about PS3 comes into play. i.e. will they make hardware that uses some odd set of development tools and hardware specs? That could be a bad idea.

Lets say differences in graphics are negligable. With PS3 one gets the Western and Japanese games. The graphics would be similar along the prevelant line of argument. Yet the PS3 would have this massive dimension to its library and with new hardware could easily get a lot more PC ports allowing Sony to run the table as far as software support.

 

[Blimblim]

The majority of the costs are not developer coding. It's the tremendous amount of content that you need to put into games nowadays. However, developers have a very special place and are given the majority of the credit for the quality of the games, and thus they have a tremendous amount of say as to which environment they prefer to work in.

However, while costs are substantial, as a percentage it's hardly an issue about cost-effectiveness.

XNA is not only tools for developers. Of course it's mainly that, but you also get for example some very useful shaders tools that the more artistic people will use to make the 3d models/effects/whatever look exactly like they want them to do in the game.

 

[mrklaw]

Assuming a realistic (IMO) outcome where the difference in capability between the MS and Sony machines is largely insignificant

Are people just buying into MS's XNA sales pitch of 'the power of the hardware won't be as important next gen, it'll be about the tools'? Of course they'd say that if they want to sell tools! Or if MS are spending less on the hardware, or think they might have less power.

Truth is no one really knows yet. Every generation so far there have been big jumps in power, and the difference between platforms has been noticable (especially this-gen with xbox vs PS2). Combined with radically different approaches to the technology, you could see *more* of a difference between platforms next gen.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

Are people just buying into MS's XNA sales pitch of 'the power of the hardware won't be as important next gen, it'll be about the tools'? Of course they'd say that if they want to sell tools! Or if MS are spending less on the hardware, or think they might have less power.

Truth is no one really knows yet. Every generation so far there have been big jumps in power, and the difference between platforms has been noticable (especially this-gen with xbox vs PS2). Combined with radically different approaches to the technology, you could see *more* of a difference between platforms next gen.

I have to fervently disagree. If anything.. it will homogenise even more and then all that's left is which exclusives you prefer.

Seriously. The fact that Xenon is releasing early does not mean PS3 will overpower it - PS3 has been in deve for longer than everything else but that doesn't meant that its infrstructure will allow its power base to be scaled upwards at Sony's whim. I predict all 3 console titles to look exactly the same.

 

[sonycowboy]

Seriously. The fact that Xenon is releasing early does not mean PS3 will overpower it - PS3 has been in deve for longer than everything else but that doesn't meant that its infrstructure will allow its power base to be scaled upwards at Sony's whim. I predict all 3 console titles to look exactly the same.

If Xenon is released in 2005 and PS3 in 2006, then Sony will be substantially more powerful based on the current specs of systems we've seen. However, Microsoft's tools may well make up for that.

 

[Redbeard]

Are people just buying into MS's XNA sales pitch of 'the power of the hardware won't be as important next gen, it'll be about the tools'? Of course they'd say that if they want to sell tools! Or if MS are spending less on the hardware, or think they might have less power.

I'd say power wasn't even that important this gen. MS has the most powerful machine, but they're struggling with Nintendo for worldwide second place. Power isn't what sold the Xbox, it was Halo. And similarly, power isn't what's selling it now, it's Halo 2 (and mabye Live). One could argue that without the power you wouldn't have Halo or Halo 2, and that might be the case, but I don't think the mass consumer would've been too put off if Halo or Halo 2 didn't look as good (they can stomach GTA just fine, after all).

 

[TheGreenGiant]

. Power isn't what sold the Xbox, it was THE BLOODY MASSIVE PRICE DROP and unsustainable business practice.

nah. fixed

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

The main thing is the one year window of opportunity(edit: or is that one christmas season with an exact launch of each unknown)). It seems like a lot of western developers would like the idea of xbox2 succeeding. They could have that huge market primarily for themselves. There will likely be sone nifty titles for the new console. The games may not come from Japan, but XBOX2 could have around a year to sidestep direct competition from Sony's successor to ps2. From what I read a lot of publishers and developers in the west have their special XBOX2 projects.

 

[Azih]

If Microsoft really are gunning for a 2005 release, then they must have Bungie working like crazy on Halo 3 as we speak, plus they must have Team Ninja/Tecmo getting a new DoA and a Ninja Gaiden sequel ready, one for launch/near launch and one for a few months later.

Of course they'll be pushing enhanced Live service to differentiate themselves from the Playstation.

Edit: And of course this would be the last season for the Xbox, there's no point in releasing more than one or two summer games for the box if they want to keep Xbox from competing with Xenon in 2005.

 

[Blimblim]

If Microsoft really are gunning for a 2005 release, then they must have Bungie working like crazy on Halo 3 as we speak, plus they must have Team Ninja/Tecmo getting a new DoA and a Ninja Gaiden sequel ready, one for launch/near launch and one for a few months later.

DOA4 at launch is almost a given, but I really doubt we'll see Ninja Gaiden 2 before a looong time. The DOA3 team, now working on DOA4, was also the team behind Ninja Gaiden. So unless to DOAX/DOAU team works on NG2 (doubtful), Team Ninja won't actively work on NG2 before next year...

 

[Deku Tree]

DOA4 at launch is almost a given, but I really doubt we'll see Ninja Gaiden 2 before a looong time. The DOA3 team, now working on DOA4, was also the team behind Ninja Gaiden. So unless to DOAX/DOAU team works on NG2 (doubtful), Team Ninja won't actively work on NG2 before next year...

So what's the DOAX/DOAU team working on? Code Chronus?

 

[PhatSaqs]

Meh. Getting Ninja Gaiden 2 ready should take priority over any and everything at Tecmo right now.

 

[Blimblim]

So what's the DOAX/DOAU team working on? Code Chronus?

Don't know, I just don't see this team working on such a big game as Ninja Gaiden 2. I see this team more as the "side project team", working on less important stuff. But maybe that's just me, I certainly do not know how Team Ninja's really working.

 

[Ramirez]

Yea screw DOA4,we just got DOA Ultimate,get to work on NG2 bitches

 

[Blimblim]

Yea screw DOA4,we just got DOA Ultimate,get to work on NG2 bitches

I agree of course, but DOA4 is way more important for the japanese launch than Ninja Gaiden 2. Unless they have Kasumi, Ayane and Hitomi as playable characters, losing bits of clothes each time they are hurt.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

I agree of course, but DOA4 is way more important for the japanese launch than Ninja Gaiden 2. Unless they have Kasumi, Ayane and Hitomi as playable characters, losing bits of clothes each time they are hurt.

OMG!!! GAMEOVA SONY!! JAPAN IS MS'S

 

[duderon]

I saw a list of all confirmed Xenon games in another thread. Can we get trailers for all of the confirmed games that have one? I saw the Dark Sector trailer and the lighting and shadows were awesome. I can't wait to see what the big boys do with the next-gen systems.

 

[thorns]

MS ' "pure games machine " stance could backfire, since Sony will most likely cram a lot of extra features, making the system look cool.

MS has to have built in media center extender functionality, that would nicely compete with the features sony is most likely to cram into the system (blu-ray etc).

If PS3 launches in fall 2006, I think MS shouldn't lower the price to keep the percieved value of its product high, and instead just bundle some games together with the console. MS really needs to go for the throat this time if they want to win and take as many exclusives from Sony as they can.

 

[open_mouth_]

Confirmed(?) Xbox Next Titles So Far:

Battlefield: MC
Black
Perfect Dark 0
Halo 3
Dead or Alive 4
Vanguard
Morrowind V
Ninja Gaiden 2
Madden '06
Unreal Engine Game (Epic)
Dark Sector (from Digital Illusions)
Avalon (vehicular combat)
Heavenly Sword (think Dynasty Warriors)
Moto GP3

Probables:

Code Chronus
BC
Fable 2
ESPN NFL 2K6
Killer Instinct
Conker 2
PGR Next
Rallisport Next
Citizen Zero MMORPG
New Banjo
New Crimson Skies
New Top Spin
Brute Force 2

 

[Spike]

Wasn't Team Ninja also working on Rygar 2? I thought I read somewhere that the project was handed over to them.

 

[sonycowboy]

Are these Tecmo games that you guys keep mentioning (over and over) confirmed for Xenon? I mean, Itagaki has said he likes the "most powerful system" as opposed to the market leader or "any system that isn't Sony's".

There seems to be a fair likelihood that these games will either be multiplatform or PS3 exclusives if Tecmo hasn't ruled that out. I mean, there's absolutely no doubt, that the games would have sold at least 3 times better on the PS2 (assuming Xbox version quality was possible)

 

[Spike]

Are these Tecmo games that you guys keep mentioning (over and over) confirmed for Xenon? I mean, Itagaki has said he likes the "most powerful system" as opposed to the market leader or "any system that isn't Sony's".

There seems to be a fair likelihood that these games will either be multiplatform or PS3 exclusives if Tecmo hasn't ruled that out. I mean, there's absolutely no doubt, that the games would have sold at least 3 times better on the PS2 (assuming Xbox version quality was possible)

Itagaki doesn't seem to like Sony. Why else would he be pushing the DS more than the PSP? I mean, if he likes "the most powerful hardware" wouldn't he be interested in the PSP over the DS?

 

[open_mouth_]

Itagaki doesn't seem to like Sony. Why else would he be pushing the DS more than the PSP? I mean, if he likes "the most powerful hardware" wouldn't he be interested in the PSP over the DS?

Plus, he's got a great relationship with Microsoft (moneyhats and all) and his company has prospered very nicely under the Xbox umbrella. I don't see that changing next-gen, especially with the comments he made about giving his input to Xenon's development.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Itagaki confirmed DOA4 for Xenon in both exxys interview at E3 and on the "Icons" show on G4.

 

[Deku Tree]

Has Conker 2 been confirmed or is this just speculation?

 

[open_mouth_]

Itagaki confirmed DOA4 for Xenon in both exxys interview at E3 and on the "Icons" show on G4.

You mean during the interview that he essentially bitchslapped Exxy for that C- GA review?

 

[Blimblim]

Has Conker 2 been confirmed or is this just speculation?

It's only speculation. The Conker team's producer already said he was kinda sick of working on Conker games since N64 so...
Open_mouth: Yes, this interview

 

[jedimike]

Climax also confirmed they were working on MotoGP 3 for Xenon.

 

[open_mouth_]

It's only speculation. The Conker team's producer already said he was kinda sick of working on Conker games since N64 so...
Open_mouth: Yes, this interview

Yes, but Microsoft seems to be pushing Conker a great deal and it's the type of mascot they would like to relate to the Xbox, imo. Plus, I believe a Rare rep did say they would like to do a sequel eventually.

 

[mashoutposse]

The XBOX has benefitted greatly from being the most powerful console. Not just graphics -- people love the HDD and all of its advantages (custom soundtracks, limitless storage for saves, etc). Take that away, and XBOX would have been the failure that the fanboys were praying for.If the PS2's capabilities equalled that of the XBOX, this gen would have been a disaster for MS in all territories (not just Japan).

If XBOX 2 is the PS2 of the next generation, it's going to be quite tough for Microsoft.

 

[xexex]

I'd like MS to enforce some sort of framerate policy with Xenon games. either 60fps or 30fps, locked. no more chugging framerates. ever. it would boost the quality of Xenon games tremendously. and FPS all have to be 60fps.

 

[Mrbob]

Itagaki confirmed DOA4 for Xenon in both exxys interview at E3 and on the "Icons" show on G4.

He also confirmed Ninja Gaiden 2 and DoA Code Chronus.

I have this feeling that power between the consoles won't be a huge factor next gen. The gap is narrowing.

 

[Gek54]

I'd like MS to enforce some sort of framerate policy with Xenon games. either 60fps or 30fps, locked. no more chugging framerates. ever. it would boost the quality of Xenon games tremendously. and FPS all have to be 60fps.

Would be nice but its not going to happen when publishers want their devs push graphics as much as possible so it is easier for the marketing department. MS is probably one of the biggest problems with the whole 'our surveys show people cant really tell between 60 and 30fps."

 

[Shiggy]

Confirmed(?) Xbox Next Titles So Far:
Perfect Dark 0

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[Blimblim]

:lol :lol :lol :lol

What's so funny exactly ?

 

[open_mouth_]

What's so funny exactly ?

that's what I was thinking...

 

[xexex]

Would be nice but its not going to happen when publishers want their devs push graphics as much as possible so it is easier for the marketing department. MS is probably one of the biggest problems with the whole 'our surveys show people cant really tell between 60 and 30fps."

sadly, this is all true maybe MS will improve in this area but that's probably wishful thinking.

 

[Shiggy]

What's so funny exactly ?

It was planned as a GCN launch game :lol

 

[Docwiz]

We know Bungie is not going to have a Halo 3 for launch for Xbox 2.

I am sure the PS3 is very powerful, but it's been designed by Sony
and I feel that they have not done a better job than an ATI or an Nvidia could do.

I feel that their architecture is based on brute force method of adding in more
and more processors instead of thinking smarter.

I believe that overall, this will be harder for programmers to deal with.
This will be a lot harder to develop for than even PS2.

I do not think that Microsoft's architecture will be any less powerful overall and thus
I do not think you will see graphics on the PS3, that can't be done on the xbox 2.

I also feel that Sony will have a more complicated architecture that will be hard to get the maxium power out of, just like the PS2 is now (but even more so). Just because you have 100 cell processors inside and outside of the console (ie in TV's or DVD players) doesn't mean you can tap all of that power and doesn't mean that the Xbox 2 can't match that power. We saw how the PS2 got beat with an 80x86 celeron processor inside, pretty sad that that much power can be beat by ordinary PC parts.

Microsoft has XNA and will allow developers to save money and this is going to be very attractive to developers as they will need to save more and more money. This time American developers know that Microsoft is now taken very seriously and they will have an easier time aligning with Microsoft.

The more realistic these games get, the more complicated things become and thus tools and API's become critical for saving more and more money.

I see things like the PS3 getting less American support
and the Xbox 2 less Japanese support.

Not everyone wants Sony to Dominate the video game market, now that Microsoft is a valid competitor where Nintendo wasn't at the time, I can see more and more support behind Microsoft to balance out the market.

 

[duderon]

We know Bungie is not going to have a Halo 3 for launch for Xbox 2.

What? We do not know what Bungie is doing for Xenon's launch. Halo 2's ending alludes to a sooner Halo 3 release than we all thought. Halo 3 would also gaurantee Microsoft a good amount of marketshare before the other two competitors even launched their respective systems.

 

[soundwave05]

I don't think the industry needs to be balanced out.

Sony IMO is the best company to lead the industry, and I'm a Nintendo fan saying that. The hardware they sell is always reasonably priced (people said the PS2 couldn't be $300, then said PSP couldn't be $200, etc.).

Average software prices have actually gone down during their tenure. You can buy a lot of great PS2 software at really low prices.

Nintendo and Microsoft get too greedy when they are dominant in a market and end up screwing the consumer over.

I look for PS3 to have a slightly better chipset and a better feature set (Blu-Ray) next time out, as such XBox 2 is no longer going to be the "highest end" console.

For all the bruhaha btw, the XBox still isn't on pace to outsell the N64 anyway.

 

[Shapingo]

We know Bungie is not going to have a Halo 3 for launch for Xbox 2.

Probably not, but the end of halo 2 suggests otherwise

I am sure the PS3 is very powerful, but it's been designed by Sony
and I feel that they have not done a better job than an ATI or an Nvidia could do.

?!? The CPU is designed by Sony,Toshiba, and IBM. IBM also make the CPU for Xbox2 and Revolution. I agree that Sony won't make a GPU that will shame Ati but it will be equal tech wise to the R500 (assuming sony isn't stupid)

I feel that their architecture is based on brute force method of adding in more
and more processors instead of thinking smarter.

Sony, Toshiba, and IBM claim that Cell is capable of 1 teraflop of processing power, that would seem pretty smart to me.

I believe that overall, this will be harder for programmers to deal with.
This will be a lot harder to develop for than even PS2.

Sony is using OPEN GL

I do not think that Microsoft's architecture will be any less powerful overall and thus I do not think you will see graphics on the PS3, that can't be done on the xbox 2.

IBM (who is making both cpu's) said themselves that cell was more powerful than their own power pc architecture, they wouldn't have invested millions in nothing

I also feel that Sony will have a more complicated architecture that will be hard to get the maxium power out of, just like the PS2 is now (but even more so). Just because you have 100 cell processors inside and outside of the console (ie in TV's or DVD players) doesn't mean you can tap all of that power and doesn't mean that the Xbox 2 can't match that power. We saw how the PS2 got beat with an 80x86 celeron processor inside, pretty sad that that much power can be beat by ordinary PC parts.

again open GL, and playstation 2's cpu is actually more powerfull than xbox's, xbox has a better gpu (imo) and has way more ram. If Ps2 had 64M of ram too you would see a huge differance in image quality.

Microsoft has XNA and will allow developers to save money and this is going to be very attractive to developers as they will need to save more and more money. This time American developers know that Microsoft is now taken very seriously and they will have an easier time aligning with Microsoft.

open gl

I see things like the PS3 getting less American support
and the Xbox 2 less Japanese support.

Why would american developers suddenly stop going were the sure money is? PS3 is going to sell regardless of the quality of games and developers are gonna sell to the larger audience

Not everyone wants Sony to Dominate the video game market, now that Microsoft is a valid competitor where Nintendo wasn't at the time, I can see more and more support behind Microsoft to balance out the market.

You forgot about Phantom