MadPanda
Banned
Except when mods lock threads exactly like that, hence all this talk.
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Examples of wrongfully locked threads?
Pantz
Member
Knockout City and Dragon Quest Builders 2 coming to Game Pass
Mod edit: these are exactly the type of general announcements that belong in the dedicated OT
Pretty cool Dragon Quest Builders 2 is coming to Xbox for the first time and Game Pass. Well I thought it was cool news myself. Can't talk about it though, game is not deemed big enough.
Knockout City being on Game Pass is cool since it's one I probably wouldn't consider trying without it. Guess it's not big enough news to talk about outside of here though.
Jemm
Member
Dr Bass
Member
Yeah and he added this, which is the exact point I've been trying to make on this board. It's a "great deal" for gamers if MS can continue to subsidize it but why would they long term? Out of the goodness of their hearts? I don't get it. The effect Game Pass is going to have is "plummeting new game revenue." This idea that GP can make it up with gamers paying less via volume... the ONLY way it works (it seems to me) is if a lot of non Xbox gamers subscribe and use it purely for XCloud. But you would need hundreds of millions of subscribers I imagine.
I guess it's not worth beating a dead horse, but it just feels so weird to discuss this product when you have people going "Yeah Game Pass is making bank!" and it becomes yet another warring thing instead of an actual discussion of what MS is trying to do and how they could succeed with it, or how they might not.
Dr Bass
Member
Sony has already said they don't think Game Pass allows for sustainable development of big titles. They know what they are doing.
You think Sony can't figure out a subscription service but MS somehow cracked the code? After seeing Sony's latest numbers do you think there is ANY reason for them to change their style so they can start making less money?
Jez has no clue what he's talking about. Absolutely none. Can you imagine a bunch of Sony accountants and BizDev folks siting around going "I hope Microsoft releases their Game Pass revenue numbers so we can figure out how to do this!" People who make comments like Jez's come across like they've never worked at an actual company in their entire life.
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SportsFan581
Member
@
Dr Bass
the guy's tweet you're sharing is making a lot of really stupid assumptions. Last Quarter (the $5b not this most recent one) they took the time to point out was MS's biggest ever Quarter in terms of revenue from third-party transactions (surpassing the numbers from their 360 heyday), and that is with 18m subscribers using GP. How many subscribers do they need before we start to see this loss in revenue from sales? Honestly, MS is doing great in revenue per-console in the wild, better than Sony by the numbers listed in the tweet.
Also, business sell whatever it is they have to sell at the given moment. When Sony doesn't have a GP alternative, Ryan will say it's bad it doesn't work. Should they ever begin to sell a competing product, poof, all problems solved, yep it works now.
Dr Bass
the guy's tweet you're sharing is making a lot of really stupid assumptions. Last Quarter (the $5b not this most recent one) they took the time to point out was MS's biggest ever Quarter in terms of revenue from third-party transactions (surpassing the numbers from their 360 heyday), and that is with 18m subscribers using GP. How many subscribers do they need before we start to see this loss in revenue from sales? Honestly, MS is doing great in revenue per-console in the wild, better than Sony by the numbers listed in the tweet.Also, business sell whatever it is they have to sell at the given moment. When Sony doesn't have a GP alternative, Ryan will say it's bad it doesn't work. Should they ever begin to sell a competing product, poof, all problems solved, yep it works now.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Lol this is so delusional as if Sony (who is currently the #1 console gaming company for a reason) can't figure out how to make a subscription service until MS releases the information. Or has Jez forgotten that Sony already has PS+, which is bigger than Gamepass?
Or doesn't Jez know that Sony would already know the intricacies and the money involved in a Gamepass deal after MLB 21, if they hadn't already figured it out? it's a hilariously bad take.
Gamepass doesn't make any money, and that's about it. if it was making money, you can bet that MS would be releasing those numbers and shouting them from the rooftop.
Jemm
Member
Sony isn't their only competitor.
PS Now, you mean? Bigger how? More games, I think.
The deals are made case by case. Some want upfront payment, some want to be paid by amount of players etc. They can't infer all the details from one contract - if Sony even was there, since MLB was the publisher, right?
MS has admitted it doesn't make a lot of money, but that doesn't mean it is making loss. They have also said that it is sustainable already.
They are investing the profits back into it right now (to get more content), so there is not much to brag about in terms of profit.
LordBlodgett
Member
I highly doubt that Gamepass is very profitable, and if it is then it shouldn't be. If Gamepass is profitable then Microsoft is not investing enough in it. Look at any content subscription services and how long they took to be profitable because they were re-investing in growth:
- Netflix - Started streaming in 2005 when they only had 682 million in revenue, 2.5 million subscribers, and 42 million income. 2017 was the year they finally broke out in terms of profit. By that point their revenue was 11.7 billion, they had 117.5 million subscribers, and 559 million in profit. 12 years of re-investing almost all revenue into content and marketing to get past the 100 million user mark. Now their profits are in the billions every year, and they are still growing.
- Disney+ - Started streaming in 2019, and by the end of the year had 27 million subscribers. They lost 693 million in the direct to consumer market in 2019, but Disney+ losses were likely higher than that, as other direct to consumer products had been profitable before Disney+ launched. End of 2020 they had 95 million subscribers. They also lost billions on it in 2020. They expect to spend 14-16 billion on content this year (9 billion just for Disney+), and hope to be profitable by 2024. By the way, they don't break out Disney+ exact profits and losses.
- HBO Max - Hit 44 million subscribers this last quarter, but they don't break out whether they make or lose money inside the WarnerMedia unit. Their growth has been slower than Netflix or Disney+ , and that might continue because ATT is so indebted that they cannot afford any of their units sustaining large losses for any period of time.
LordBlodgett
Member
I have also been thinking about what Mat Piscatella wrote on twitter yesterday:
And the more I think about it, the more I realize that Gamepass is Microsoft's biggest driver. I think it may actually be far more important than exclusive games, though they do need those. If you look at this console launch you always hear the console warring about "where are the games?", and they have a point. I mean, I enjoyed Gears Tactics, but that is a super niche game. So what is driving Series S/X to be constantly sold out? Why did Microsoft see massive growth in games and services revenue in both Q2 and Q3 when they had no major exclusives launch?
It is Gamepass. Gamepass is growing quickly, offers an unbelievable amount of games (375+) in all genres, and are launching all kinds of first and third party games on day one every single month. I used to spread my time pretty evenly across my PS4 Pro and One X, but over the last year I've played almost exclusively Gamepass games. I played TLOU2, RDR2, and AC: Odyssey outside of Gamepass, otherwise I have played over 40 different games on Gamepass. For me Gamepass is Microsoft's biggest exclusive.
And the more I think about it, the more I realize that Gamepass is Microsoft's biggest driver. I think it may actually be far more important than exclusive games, though they do need those. If you look at this console launch you always hear the console warring about "where are the games?", and they have a point. I mean, I enjoyed Gears Tactics, but that is a super niche game. So what is driving Series S/X to be constantly sold out? Why did Microsoft see massive growth in games and services revenue in both Q2 and Q3 when they had no major exclusives launch?
It is Gamepass. Gamepass is growing quickly, offers an unbelievable amount of games (375+) in all genres, and are launching all kinds of first and third party games on day one every single month. I used to spread my time pretty evenly across my PS4 Pro and One X, but over the last year I've played almost exclusively Gamepass games. I played TLOU2, RDR2, and AC: Odyssey outside of Gamepass, otherwise I have played over 40 different games on Gamepass. For me Gamepass is Microsoft's biggest exclusive.
GamePass itself doesn't need to profitable the same way that Amazon Prime doesn't. Its value is in driving users to the platform so it can make profits in other transactions.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Game Pass is borderline its own platform now. You can access it without xbox hardware at this point. Even Spencer said that they bought Zenimax to brings games to Game Pass. Thats notable to me because while that does include Xbox, its not only Xbox anymore.
TBiddy
Member
Bingo. People underestimate just how much money Sony and Microsoft makes on MTX. Every time someone buys a package in FUT, Microsoft and Sony gets a cut. Someone buying more money in GTA Online? Sony and MS are there to collect.
In August 2020, ZhugeEx posted a detailed breakdown of the revenue in Sonys gaming division in FY20 Q1. No less than 41% came from "Add-ons", which is MTX and DLC. It's a money machine, and it's not the first-party games that are driving this.
LordBlodgett
Member
If you look at Sony's most recent quarter with record revenues and profits you will notice that their physical and digital game sales are actually down year over year, but the add-ons are WAY up year over year. That and services are the current growth drivers
The Hamburglar
Banned
Which is why you’ll see a lot of gaas and mtx riddle games from the FP output.
LordBlodgett
Member
Such as?
Maybe and that's up to consumers choices. You will also see indies that give the library something for other players if not they will lose those players. You can have different content for different audiences and times. Sony is also embracing the MTX/GaaS games when it suits them aka Avengers and GTA V.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Valid points on where the extra benefits of gamepass end up. You could potentially run gamepass as a loss leader for many years to drive traffic to the platform. And if you hit critical mass, you lose less on gamepass (Maybe even make money at a certain point) plus increase sales of everything else.
The Hamburglar
Banned
Years back Phil said (after failing to produce exclusives) Xbox was going to focus on GaaS; then gamepass poped up.
Makes sense if people are locked into a subscription
Aguero9320
Member
This thread is absolutely terrible for finding out GamePass news, or even if there is GamePass news.
I don’t have time to read all the other stuff in here just to find out if there is any news. I just spent twenty minutes reading discussions about whether this thread is needed, people moaning about GamePass, discussion about whether it’s profitable or not etc. All to see if any actual news was buried in here. (Answer: it wasn’t)
Mods, Evilore, please consider changing these rules! They are making NeoGAF much less useful.
Discussions about GamePass are fine in here for those that want to read/war, actual news just gets buried.
I don’t have time to read all the other stuff in here just to find out if there is any news. I just spent twenty minutes reading discussions about whether this thread is needed, people moaning about GamePass, discussion about whether it’s profitable or not etc. All to see if any actual news was buried in here. (Answer: it wasn’t)
Mods, Evilore, please consider changing these rules! They are making NeoGAF much less useful.
Discussions about GamePass are fine in here for those that want to read/war, actual news just gets buried.
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Jigsaah
Gold Member
So..."GaaSPass"?
nemiroff
Gold Member
Destroy All Humans for some reason never even registered on my radar, can't even remember seeing it before. It's a surprisingly fun and playful game.
Vognerful
Member
will this be the next-gen port?
pasterpl
Member
uk only deal but still cool push from ms
www.eurogamer.net
ee.co.uk
EE now offers Xbox Game Pass Ultimate and unlimited data for gaming at £10 per month
Mobile network EE is offering a new add-on to its existing phone or SIM-only customers that grants you an Xbox Game Pas…
www.eurogamer.net
EE Made For Gamers | EE Gaming Bundles, Consoles & Tech For Everyone | EE
EE is made for gamers, opening up gaming to everyone. With consoles, bundles and tech as well as the latest content to help you get gaming sooner
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Just completed Outriders on gamepass...as in beat the final boss which was bullshit on world tier 15 so had to drop it down...now onto expeditions.
Chukhopops
Member
It's really nice to see the push for PC Gamepass, right now there is only a 5 games difference in the totals between PC and Console (355 vs 360). It doesn't mean all PC games are on Console and vice versa, there are just more titles exclusive to PC to balance the Console ones.
The number of PC-exclusive games has just exploded with the recent additions of Bethesda / EA Play. The strategy is really shifting from the time when PC was just a bonus on top of "regular" GP.
The number of PC-exclusive games has just exploded with the recent additions of Bethesda / EA Play. The strategy is really shifting from the time when PC was just a bonus on top of "regular" GP.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Does Colin Moriarty tell the world what the financial stats are of Last Stand Media or Kinda Funny?
imagine Ms a company that could buy entirely the sony corp overnight (yes is an example) and who earn profits with services in a quarter more than Sony gaming division do in a couple of years....don't know how to make a profitable service.....talking about delusional
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
This is factually wrong. MS's gaming division (Xbox) hasn't made more profit than Sony's gaming division (PS). Show receipts.
- MS is the same company that destroyed Skype (from 668 million users to 45 million users).
- MS is the same company that destroyed Nokia (from undisputed market leaders to oblivion)
- MS is the same company that made a bad call with Mixer.
- MS is the same company that could never make Xbox succeed. Despite all the efforts, it is still firmly in the last place and there are no signs of that changing.
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Considering the revenue numbers, Xbox owners actually spend more than Playstation, the sales share for Xbox One and PS4 were at 1 xbox for each 2.1-2.2 PS4, if we doubled the amount of Xbox One units, it would still be a bit behind PS4 but the revenue would be 5 billion more. I remember that even Ubisoft said years ago Xbox players proportionally spend more.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Idk why people shit on Mixer. It was a fantastic service. Sometimes good shit just doesn’t work out. Mixer had amazingly low latency and great performance. It’s way better than Twitch, just wasn’t nearly as popular.
Well if that's the case, neither y'all know. Sony does what it does, Microsoft does what it does, Nintendo does what it does, because that's what their public are into. It doesn't mean that Sony and Nintendo could be inspired to change their minds tomorrow and push for a subscription service for a game catalogue, after all, Disney and TV channels did it years after Netflix boomed.
But I know that it will be just twisted or anything else because the brand for whatever's god reason makes you angry and would move to the next complaint.
Little Chicken
Member
All this serious discussion and I just popped in here to say I tried the rain cloud game and it was cute.
I think the nhl game is but might need someone else to check.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I have no problems with Gamepass, by the way. It's an excellent service and offers a lot of good value to many gamers -- especially when those first-party games start dropping. I have some concerns regarding subscription services like these being the main model in the gaming industry, but those are just personal opinions.
it's just from a business perspective, it does not make sense for Sony to do this, and if Sony says so, I get where they are coming from.
At the moment, I think it's better that the two companies are offering two different types of services/models/choices to gamers, and everyone is happy. That's the important part.
pasterpl
Member
he was not referring to specific division of ms.
re. Nokia, their market share was approx 10% when MS acquired them in 2013, they were in decline since 2007/8 years before ms acquired them
re. Xbox, they actually are successful with it, they might not be the top selling console but they are sell billions $$$ worth of hardware and software, look at surface devices, ms is not market leader with these, but it is successful enough to keep releasing new models and innovate
your fanboys missing clouding your views
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Agree with this 100% too. We went from too many to everyone being afraid to even talk about gamepass, and yes this thread just gets buried. There must be some middle ground.
Jimmyisback
Banned
What terrible is I have to read a bunch of shit posts to get to any news. This thread was a horrible idea.
Jimmyisback
Banned
This is weird because everything MS does with Xbox and gaming has some relation to game pass.
Fess
Member
Going by the talk after that lock the thread creator should’ve said that DQB2 was coming to Xbox, and never mention Gamepass, it was said to be provocative to have Gamepass in the title or some shit like that. So just make sure to never mention Gamepass once we get Xbox news, pretend the games aren’t even coming to GP, then it’s fine. Yeah it’s dumb but it is what it is.Knockout City and Dragon Quest Builders 2 coming to Game Pass
Mod edit: these are exactly the type of general announcements that belong in the dedicated OTwww.neogaf.com
Pretty cool Dragon Quest Builders 2 is coming to Xbox for the first time and Game Pass. Well I thought it was cool news myself. Can't talk about it though, game is not deemed big enough.
Knockout City being on Game Pass is cool since it's one I probably wouldn't consider trying without it. Guess it's not big enough news to talk about outside of here though.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
There are plenty of points to discuss (e.g., why compare MS as a whole vs. Sony's PlayStation division, and if Xbox is really profitable, why does MS not reveal profit numbers, etc.), but I don't want to derail this thread.
Please enjoy Xbox, Gamepass, and the wonderful games that are coming on the service. There is plenty to play and enjoy for all kinds of people. Have fun and a great day
Schmick
Member
Kagey K
wrote this in its own thread but it got locked straight away hope Kagey K doesn't mind me copying it here."Game Pass is its own platform, not a delivery system as Mods have suggested here.
It deserves to have its own place in the discussion, as PC, Console and Mobile owners can discuss games they all have.
It is a platform, that unites a bunch of players instead of being one that exists to divide them.
Calling it a delivery service, and relegating it to one thread is demeaning to gaming as a whole, while trying to say your version of gaming is right, and everyone else is wrong.
The fact that a few narrow minded people got upset at the idea of Gamepass, and thinks all discussion should be halted around it, should be banned shows just what a revolutionary idea it is.
I would ask the mods look back on this decision and realize they don’t control the gaming community."
Fess
Member
Yeah it’s hard to avoid, MS pretty much see it as a platform on it’s own so they’ll make sure it’s in the conversation in some way or form. That’s just the way it is now. And I mean among friends it’s essentially gaming small talk to ask if someone has found something cool on Gamepass they can recommend. We certainly don’t go hush-hush like here.