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[doncale]

not likely but....

http://www.gameshout.com/news/012005/article283.htm

Xbox 2 is coming in 2005
Our sources tell us that developers have been working on games for Xbox 2 for over a year now while publishers and industry insiders say that the unit could be on store shelves as early as Summer 2005.


It's going to be a very interesting year for gamers as both the Xbox 2 and PlayStation 3 are on the horizon. 2004 was the year for new revolutionary graphics & physicis, which Half-Life 2 won in all categories. This year though, consoles will take center stage.

Our sources tell us that developers have been working on games for Xbox 2 for over a year now. And the consensus amongst publishers and industry insiders is the machine will be on store shelves as early as Summer 2005. However, the 2005 holiday season appears to be more promising. You never know with this industry.

Whether it's Summer 2005, or Fall/Winter 2005, we can expect a very exciting year for video games.

I'm still counting on a November-December release, but would really like it pushed back to late Spring 2006

 

[pcostabel]

Considering that they didn't show Xenon at CES, it will be a miracle if it comes out in November, let alone summer.

 

[DopeyFish]

Considering that they didn't show Xenon at CES, it will be a miracle if it comes out in November, let alone summer.

No. it wouldn't be a miracle for november.

Microsoft just likes being the first person to hold a conference at E3s.

 

[jarrod]

September 2005.... they need as much room as possible ahead of PS3.

 

[doncale]

Summer / Sept 2005, no way. it just won't happen. I agree its gonna be a stretch to get launched in November. major crunch for developers.

 

[KiNeSiS]

Ok Microsoft rush your system.

I have a feeling when the smoke clears the Xbox brand will no longer be the 800lb graphical gorilla.

Instead it will be the 5 pound Feline.
Take your time Nintendo and Sony.
Only rich hard core gamers will jump on this pricey system.
Most you talk to in reality are waiting for PS3, this may even give Nintendo an edge considering they will have sharper tech in there gearbox.

 

[Gek54]

It seems the mysterious cell processor and "Revolution" is already enough to make most people wait.

Xenon is just screaming DC :\

 

[bishoptl]

Summer 2005? Dream on.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

"It seems the mysterious cell processor and "Revolution" is already enough to make most people wait.

Xenon is just screaming DC :\"

Yeah you're probably right. Wait that rarely happens.

Can't wait to get the Xbox 2 this holiday season.

 

[Rhindle]

Why even post that?

 

[element]

not going to happen.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

Considering MS just put out near final specs, I doubt it.

 

[jarrod]

It seems the mysterious cell processor and "Revolution" is already enough to make most people wait.

Xenon is just screaming DC :\

EA disagrees.

 

[koam]

How long does it take them to assemble a PC? (ok ok ati and ibm but still).

 

[element]

i dont know of any developers with lead revolution skus in development. They might have a PS3 or Xenon title in development with the possiblity of revolution sku, but i haven't heard anyone leading with one.
that isn't a good sign.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I bet there are some Japanese developers with Revolution games underway.

But yeah, not a good sign.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

i dont know of any developers with lead revolution skus in development. They might have a PS3 or Xenon title in development with the possiblity of revolution sku, but i haven't heard anyone leading with one.
that isn't a good sign.

This is true, I don't know of any either.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

How long does it take them to assemble a PC? (ok ok ati and ibm but still).

Hey, hey hey!! It's a PPC with THREE cores. That makes it more complicated... sorta.

 

[fse]

consoles are pc's, just tuned exclusively for games.

 

[mr2mike]

I'm thinking we'll get a blitzkrieg-like unveiling at E3 wind has whispered more than once that lots of devs are already working right along on Xenon projects, then a big cooldown over the summer to let the mast of MGS games sell a reasonable amount and then launch for thanksgiving, at the earliest.

Summer IMO is an impossibility, unless MS has A) a Sega fetish, B) has had devs working for longer than we would have suspected, C) are crazy: just the couple of months between a summer and late fall release could be enough to cut down their hardware losses quite a bit... maybe get that ram a cent or two cheaper, a bit better yields on chips, get some solid quality assurance going for those first few batches of launch hardware *shudders*

 

[Duckhuntdog]

and let's not forget programming for 256 megs of system RAM is tricky... okay okay, I'll stop before I break NDA.

 

[DopeyFish]

and let's not forget programming for 256 megs of system RAM is tricky... okay okay, I'll stop before I break NDA.

i never knew talking out of your ass would breach an NDA...

 

[Deg]

common sense people

 

[tahrikmili]

i never knew talking out of your ass would breach an NDA...

Depends on the industry I guess.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

i never knew talking out of your ass would breach an NDA...

Buddy, you wish I was talking out of my ass. Although the specs did say 256 or + megs of unified memory. But that is NOT the only RAM on the system. I can say no more.

 

[happyfunball]

"i dont know of any developers with lead revolution skus in development. They might have a PS3 or Xenon title in development with the possiblity of revolution sku, but i haven't heard anyone leading with one.
that isn't a good sign."

I don't think this is anything new......can you remember many from this generation either other than the capcom games?

 

[Blimblim]

Hey, hey hey!! It's a PPC with THREE cores. That makes it more complicated... sorta.

I know you must be joking, but Xbox 2 will be about as different from a PC architecture as Xbox was close to. We have all seen the diagrams from the first X2DK and the latest patent.
X2 should be quite a beast performance wise, but having only 256 MB of unified memory (got more or less a confirmation from another source yesterday too) does not seem to be enough.
Not enough RAM was the biggest complaint for the current Xbox, I hope MS does not make the same mistake with X2.

 

[Mama Smurf]

I'm pretty certain every console ever made has been bitched about because of RAM limitations.

 

[android]

element, will we hear about Xenon sooner or later?

 

[doncale]

Xbox 2 should have

512 MB DDR3/4 main system memory

256 MB external graphics
32 MB on-chip graphics memory

plus an additional 256 MB of slower DDRI memory for use like Gamecube's A-RAM.



oh yeah, i wish.

 

[element]

element, will we hear about Xenon sooner or later?

someday...

 

[eastside49er]

Doubtful. I think you will probably see the main specs in March, then see what it will actually look like, the games coming out for the system and final specs at E3.

 

[android]

someday...

grrrrr...

 

[Blimblim]

I'm pretty certain every console ever made has been bitched about because of RAM limitations.

Yeah of course, but considering that debug Xbox have 128 MB of RAM and the retail Xbox motherboard has all the logical "wiring" for a second 64 MB chip, that makes it a very easy thing to bitch about

 

[Gaia Theory]

A hardware manufacturer that never made money on their hardware rushing to release new hardware? Sounds an awful lot like Sega to me, yet Nintendo is the one that gets compared to Sega all the time with talk about Nintendo exiting the console business.

Funny how MS Home Entertainment Division (Xbox) is the only division of MS that has never made any money VS Nintendo Co. Ltd. that has always made profit except for 1 quarter of last year in all of its existence = Nintendo doomed.

Ridiculous. I just thought I'd rant a bit about the rush to new hardware in this thread. Seemed a good a place as any.

Nothing really BIG software wise left for Xbox, so might as well get people excited about new hardware right?

 

[android]

It's not about how much profit they are making it's about installed base. Nintendo has consistently slipped over the last ten years while Microsoft has got a foot in the door when no one thought they would last a year. Without a install base third parties won't even look their way next round. You don't call your system revolution unless you realize you need one to survive.

 

[Gaia Theory]

You don't call your system revolution unless you realize you need one to survive.

revolution

n 1: a drastic and far-reaching change in ways of thinking and behaving
3: A sudden or momentous change in a situation
d : a fundamental change in the way of thinking about or visualizing something
e : a changeover in use or preference especially in technology
f: the overthrow or renunciation of one government/company or ruler and the substitution of another by the governed

Nothing about survival in there. ^_^

 

[android]

Nothing about survival in there. ^_^

Yeah the definition of revolution doesn't contain survival, but the reason for having one is the key.

 

[jarrod]

i dont know of any developers with lead revolution skus in development. They might have a PS3 or Xenon title in development with the possiblity of revolution sku, but i haven't heard anyone leading with one.
that isn't a good sign.

Revolution's also the furthest off (late 2006 in Japan even probably) and Nintendo tends to hold off on details until the last second. How many developers did you know with DS games in development back in 2003? Just one year later there's now over 120 games planned from 3rd parties.

 

[Moegames]

Considering that they didn't show Xenon at CES, it will be a miracle if it comes out in November, let alone summer.

Dude..thats the dumbest thing i heard...why would it be a miricle if it came out in Nov? You have no clue lol :lol

 

[human5892]

Revolution's also the furthest off (late 2006 in Japan even probably) and Nintendo tends to hold off on details until the last second. How many developers did you know with DS games in development back in 2003? Just one year later there's now over 120 games planned from 3rd parties.

That's different, though -- the DS is the follow-up to the most successful handheld line of all time, giving it much more credibility than the follow-up to the GameCube.

IMO, the fact that Revolution is more or less completely omitted from discussions of the next generation by most people (both in the development community and the media) is worrisome. Not flat-out alarming, since it is still early yet, but worrisome all the same.

 

[jarrod]

That's different, though -- the DS is the follow-up to the most successful handheld line of all time, giving it much more credibility than the follow-up to the GameCube.

IMO, the fact that Revolution is more or less completely omitted from discussions of the next generation by most people (both in the development community and the media) is worrisome. Not flat-out alarming, since it is still early yet, but worrisome all the same.

Worrisome possibly, but not really indicative of anything yet. Revolution is still probably a good 1.5 to 2 years away from release... how many GameCube 3rd party games did we hear about in 1999? How many 3rd party GBA games in 1999? How many 3rd party N64 games in 1994? 3rd party SNES games in 1988? 3rd party GB games in 1986? Nintendo seems to be doing business as usual, wether that hurts them or not they're traditionally secretive with next gen information. The only outside developers with any real idea about Revolution at this point are likely just EA and the big JP firms (Namco, Sega Sammy, Capcom, Konami, Square Enix... maybe Bandai). Just like DS in 2003.

 

[mr2mike]

Oh and little something I missed early in the thread

"Ok Microsoft rush your system.

I have a feeling when the smoke clears the Xbox brand will no longer be the 800lb graphical gorilla."

I dont think They even need to be the 800 lbs graphical gorilla anymore. Yeah sure that was handy enough to enter the market with a completely new product, but Xbox kind of proved itself thus far, and X2 probably wont need to attract people's attention with pomises of flashy graphics just toget them to consider the product. The Xbox bran made a very successful entry into the market and like it or not (I suspect "not" in your case), they've got mind share going.

Besides, With the majority of the market being PS2 oriented, I dont think Xbox had much in the way of a graphical advantage, since except for a few games (Halo2, Ninja Gaiden, Riddck...) the system was blessed with mostl mild enhancements on multiplatform games and lots of games that seemed to be made to look pretty in screenshots only...

WE expect it to be the graphical king because we're the GAF. Mister ordinary consumer just expects 4 controller ports, a place to save his games on the console and that ethernet connector on the back. The reality is, if it launches first, save for a miracle of chip design or a bluner on the competition's part, it wont be more powerful, and that fact is hardly a hidden truth... you'd have to be out of your mind to expect otherwise.

 

[human5892]

Worrisome possibly, but not really indicative of anything yet. Revolution is still probably a good 1.5 to 2 years away from release... how many GameCube 3rd party games did we hear about in 1999? How many 3rd party GBA games in 1999? How many 3rd party N64 games in 1994? 3rd party SNES games in 1988? 3rd party GB games in 1986?

That's very true, although I was more referring to the fact that third parties don't even give the Revolution the dignity of existing when speaking of their next-gen plans. To use your examples as comparisons, plenty of people were talking in 1994 about the Ultra 64, or the Dolphin in 1999. These days, it's practically forum news if a developer happens to mention the Revolution.

As I said (or at least implied), I don't mean to make a terribly big deal out of this, since I realize it's still early yet. But I do think it's something to consider.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

I know you must be joking, but Xbox 2 will be about as different from a PC architecture as Xbox was close to. We have all seen the diagrams from the first X2DK and the latest patent.
X2 should be quite a beast performance wise, but having only 256 MB of unified memory (got more or less a confirmation from another source yesterday too) does not seem to be enough.
Not enough RAM was the biggest complaint for the current Xbox, I hope MS does not make the same mistake with X2.

That was a joke, the PPC part. 256 MB of unified memory is small? You have to consider the fact that there is more RAM on another part of the Xenon to help out. I won't say how much, but it's not much, but enough to do 720P.

 

[Blimblim]

That was a joke, the PPC part. 256 MB of unified memory is small? You have to consider the fact that there is more RAM on another part of the Xenon to help out. I won't say how much, but it's not much, but enough to do 720P.

Well as far as we all know it's 10 Mbytes of EDRAM, unless it's been changed recently.
Do you really feel 256 Mbytes is enough for textures/models/sounds/game data ? With games all designed around 720p we will require much more detailed textures than before.

 

[mashoutposse]

Oh and little something I missed early in the thread

"Ok Microsoft rush your system.

I have a feeling when the smoke clears the Xbox brand will no longer be the 800lb graphical gorilla."

I dont think They even need to be the 800 lbs graphical gorilla anymore. Yeah sure that was handy enough to enter the market with a completely new product, but Xbox kind of proved itself thus far, and X2 probably wont need to attract people's attention with pomises of flashy graphics just toget them to consider the product. The Xbox bran made a very successful entry into the market and like it or not (I suspect "not" in your case), they've got mind share going.

Besides, With the majority of the market being PS2 oriented, I dont think Xbox had much in the way of a graphical advantage, since except for a few games (Halo2, Ninja Gaiden, Riddck...) the system was blessed with mostl mild enhancements on multiplatform games and lots of games that seemed to be made to look pretty in screenshots only...

WE expect it to be the graphical king because we're the GAF. Mister ordinary consumer just expects 4 controller ports, a place to save his games on the console and that ethernet connector on the back. The reality is, if it launches first, save for a miracle of chip design or a bluner on the competition's part, it wont be more powerful, and that fact is hardly a hidden truth... you'd have to be out of your mind to expect otherwise.

Make no mistake -- the XBOX is defined by its superior hardware. Imagine if it was PS2 that got the superior ports... how do you think the XBOX would have done in that case?

And, at less than 20 million consoles sold worldwide, the system isn't yet being bought by "Mister ordinary consumer" who knows nothing about the hardware's advantages over other competing consoles.

 

[killermmn]

i heard that microsoft will annouced it at gdc 2005,will see that real!

 

[Shig]

I dont think They even need to be the 800 lbs graphical gorilla anymore. Yeah sure that was handy enough to enter the market with a completely new product, but Xbox kind of proved itself thus far, and X2 probably wont need to attract people's attention with pomises of flashy graphics just toget them to consider the product. The Xbox bran made a very successful entry into the market and like it or not (I suspect "not" in your case), they've got mind share going.

I agree. People seem to forget how many hurdles they overcame to get where they are now. Practically no one took Xbox seriously when it first came out, now it's a well-respected console that gets a lot more consideration for exclusives and ports than it should considering it's marketshare. With next gen systems starting from zero again and without those establishing walls to climb, the situation is gonna be much different next gen.

The reality is, if it launches first, save for a miracle of chip design or a bluner on the competition's part, it wont be more powerful, and that fact is hardly a hidden truth... you'd have to be out of your mind to expect otherwise.

See, even with the extra time, I don't see Sony going noticably ahead graphically on the PS3. To do that would mean more expense, and they're enough ahead that they probably don't feel the need to prove anything... MS made the XB so powerful because they needed a hook, but Sony's not in that position, they're in the lead. Also consider that they're losing a good bit on PSP units, I dont' think they'd want to take the chance of manufacturing two big-loss consoles at once.

I think this could be the crucial junction where they get a little cocky and underestimate the competition, really. If Xenon's on the market 4 or 5 months ahead of time yet doesn't look much different from PS3, people may not be able to justify waiting for PS3 and it could be an upset; especially considering that Xenon has the added boost of holiday sales. And that time difference isn't enough to rejigger the specs for PS3 unless they want to launch later (and upset developers whose games are almost completed), which I really don't think they would, even if it would be the smarter decision in the long run.

 

[Blimblim]

i heard that microsoft will annouced it at gdc 2005,will see that real!

Technical features and demos, but they won't show the system itself or any 1st/2nd party games. That's the plan so far, it could change in 2 months of course.