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[Blimblim]

So is it called xenon or xbox360....?

Xenon is the development/code name, Xbox360 should be the final "marketing" name.

 

[capslock]

They don't need the third core since it won't be Backwards Compatible.

 

[Elios83]

2 cores would be a poor chioce.Cell would eat it alive.

 

[Kobold]

I think they are underestimating the influence that backwards compatibility has on gamers buying a system. I dont understand yet what the pitch will be for Europe, we don't even have HD tv's here, so basically their whole pitch is moot for us eurotrash!

 

[Elios83]

They don't need the third core since it won't be Backwards Compatible.

Lately rumors have been unclear on that.
It seems they will offer BC in some way,even if not out of the box and with 100% compatibility.

 

[Prine]

^^ :lol :lol :lol

 

[Pug]

Kobold, theres plenty of High Def TV's for sale in the UK, however there is no media available as yet (well tv broadcasts) that utilise HD. Hence not much is being made of the fact that the TV is HD compatible. The slaes of plasma's and LCD's over the Xmas period in the UK was massive.

 

[eso76]

I don't get it, wasn't it 3 double cores power pc's ?
It's not anymore ? never been ?

 

[Lord Error]

Unless something has changed recenly, the CPU in Xenon will not be the same thing as two G5 chips bolted onto the same core. According to people programming for it on B3D, the CPU is not even based on G5, but rather something custom made, with less transistors, that can be clocked high and not produce as much heat as G5 chips would.

He is saying that rather than having developers build their own scaffolding (i.e. program each game to the metal from scratch), they want to provide developers (through the XNA Studio tools, the common XBox Live services, etc.) with some of the base infrastructure so they can concentrate on the painting itself (i.e. the creative coding).

I think he (Panajev) got the reference fine, it's just that such thing has already been going on to a great extent throughout this generation. Most teams never "built their own scaffolding" but used ready made 3rd party engines instead.

 

[gofreak]

According to people programming for it on B3D, the CPU is not even based on G5, but rather something custom made, with less transistors, that can be clocked high and not produce as much heat as G5 chips would.

Sounds just like Cell's power core!

I don't get it, wasn't it 3 double cores power pc's ?
It's not anymore ? never been ?

Never was, that was a massive misunderstanding on some peoples' part. It was always expected to be 3 cores, not 3 chips with 2 cores (6 cores).

 

[peedi]

what's this got to do with anything. You didn't have to be rude to Panav.

Allard's got the machine stuck on spin cycle. :lol

I don't know if it's "spin," but Allard is a shyster in every sense of the word, selling the Xbox community his digital snake oil. Remember his talk of how the Xbox would usher in a new era of gaming? Look at its catalog.

 

[sprsk]

I don't know if it's "spin," but Allard is a shyster in every sense of the word, selling the Xbox community his digital snake oil. Remember his talk of how the Xbox would usher in a new era of gaming? Look at its catalog.

do you not like fps or something whats the problem.

 

[eso76]

Never was, that was a massive misunderstanding on some peoples' part. It was always expected to be 3 cores, not 3 chips with 2 cores (6 cores).

I think it's mosty that early diagram's fault...3 chips with 2 cores..
It looks it was quite accurate apart from that, though.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Wait wait the Xbox 2 was going to have a chip with three cores on it? Or three separate chips, im getting confused here. 3 cores on a chip doesnt seem to make much sense, I knw ibm has plans for 2 and 4 core chips but 3 ehhh? Looks like xbox is gonna have a dual core chip in it...how many i dunno.

 

[peedi]

do you not like fps or something whats the problem.

You're being sarcastic, right? Anyway, I like FPS, but none that have shown up exclusively on the Xbox. Seems as if that and racers are the only genre the system sees, with the occasional departure -- which, as I said, runs counter to the vision Allard peddled right up to the Xbox's release.

 

[Lord Error]

Sounds just like Cell's power core!

It certainly does. The rest of the chip would be totally different of course, as Cell only has one Power Core, not two or three, and Xenon CPU does not have any SPEs.

 

[mr2mike]

perhaps the confusion also tems from the fact that they are multithreading cores, so one could guess (although he would be wrong) that 3 chips x 2 threads each = 6 cores.

 

[sol5377]

Who is this "Tom Shardware" and how did he manage to get an interview with Allard?

 

[gofreak]

Wait wait the Xbox 2 was going to have a chip with three cores on it?

That's the rumour.

Though depending on how you interpret allard's comments, he might be saying they're going to put two cores on one chip for the final hardware (as opposed to them being seperate CPUs as in the alpha kits). I think it'll be 3 though.

Who is this "Tom Shardware" and how did he manage to get an interview with Allard?

Tom's is a well established and large hardware site.

 

[Blimblim]

Who is this sol5377 and how did he manage to get an account on GAF?

Fixed
I thought everybody heard about Tom's Hardware, one of the biggest and oldest hardware site on the net.

 

[IJoel]

Funny how PR talk is taken by some people, even when it's a clear analogy and when it's not comparing art assets, but effort required in bringing such projects to life.

OMG XENON TEH BAD ART COMPARED TO MICHAELANGELO! THE ROOFLES!!!

 

[kaching]

As for his Michelangelo analogy, again so what it’s just a PR guy doing his job and doing it well I might add. What Sega and Nintendo neglected was PR and PR at a standard that Sony has been able top dish out for the last 5 years or so. MS won't make the same mistakes.

Its the same PR approach they used this gen though...with various statements along the lines of "Game is Art" and cajoling the developers with how easy they can make the game development environment. But this is definitely an area where action will speak louder than words. I hope this isn't PR aimed at devs, because that's like preaching to the converted, since MS already has good relations with them. But it's PR that's of limited effectiveness directed elsewhere as well. It may resonate with some diehard Xbox fans but, for gamers at large, even if this did get out to them it would hardly register. Not because they don't necessarily buy the analogy of games as art but simply because they'll wait till they see it to believe it.

 

[Crankenstein]

I don't know if it's "spin," but Allard is a shyster in every sense of the word, selling the Xbox community his digital snake oil. Remember his talk of how the Xbox would usher in a new era of gaming? Look at its catalog.

:lol Every console maker says their console will "usher in a new era of gaming". I'll take that over "the most beautiful thing ever created". They all sell digital snake oil.

 

[Pug]

I've got friends working on XB2 titles and even they won't tell me or do not know what the final CPU specs are/ or are going to be. What they have said is that they keep getting told the specs will not be tied down until the summer. MS seems to be giving themselves leeway although i'd be suprised is the CPU configuration wasn't set in stone. Funny thing is although we expect MS to release first we know less about the CPU in Xenon that the CPU in PS3.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Seems as if that and racers are the only genre the system sees, with the occasional departure -- which, as I said, runs counter to the vision Allard peddled right up to the Xbox's release.

Seems as if racers and FPS are the only genre Xbox sees? WTF?

I think not.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

I will hit up a few people I know and see if its been decided between 2 or 3 cores. I am under the assumption that it will be 3 cores, but if it is two... well the sudden downplay in power makes sense, Sony has no worries, and Nintendo has a shot.

 

[Pug]

Katching, number one why can't I make the quote function work? Secondly PR by its very nature is at best a collection facts and points weighed heavily on the side of the PR provider. PR is usually directed at the industry rather than the general population as to be perfectly honest it’s the industry that passes on that PR. This way the PR becomes more 'factual' and more easily swallowed. When 3rd parties start saying how wonder X platform is to work with people tend to take that pill much easier than an MS vinegar cover offering. Fact is the message really originated from MS. Sony has been great at this over the past 5 yrs and I don't expect them to disappoint.

 

[thorns]

I don't know if it's "spin," but Allard is a shyster in every sense of the word, selling the Xbox community his digital snake oil. Remember his talk of how the Xbox would usher in a new era of gaming? Look at its catalog.

Yeah and kutaragi said we would be able to jack into the matrix :lol
at least MS had xbox live. What was Sony's innovation with PS2? EyeToy? :lol or a half-assed network implementation ?

The only interesting thing (even if it's already quite old) is that the executables are now using the .exe extension instead of .xbe. This could be mean that MS is aiming for both windows and xenon compatibility with a single executable. Disclaimer: This is speculation on my part, I never heard anything about such an idea from my contacts.

This is simply not possible, since you can't run the same machine code in two different architectures.

 

[rastex]

This is simply not possible, since you can't run the same machine code in two different architectures.

OMG Xenon and Longhorn to use java bytecode!!!

 

[gofreak]

I will hit up a few people I know and see if its been decided between 2 or 3 cores. I am under the assumption that it will be 3 cores, but if it is two... well the sudden downplay in power makes sense, Sony has no worries, and Nintendo has a shot.

Do let us know!

 

[Blimblim]

I will hit up a few people I know and see if its been decided between 2 or 3 cores. I am under the assumption that it will be 3 cores, but if it is two... well the sudden downplay in power makes sense, Sony has no worries, and Nintendo has a shot.

I did not get any confirmation about the number of cores yet either. But it looks like 512 Mbytes of RAM + cache is more and more likely.

 

[gofreak]

I did not get any confirmation about the number of cores yet either. But it looks like 512 Mbytes of RAM + cache is more and more likely.

You mean, more cache than we'd otherwise get in a 3 core setup? 2MB of cache?

 

[CrimsonSkies]

If this was a PS2 thread you would be on it like Mr T in a jewelers shop.

Yes he would. :lol

Edit - Hey the 512 Ram issue sounds great.

 

[alejob]

I heard leonardo, rafael and donatelo like revolution better.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

You mean, more cache than we'd otherwise get in a 3 core setup? 2MB of cache?

Well if they go with 2 cores, it would make sense. 2 cores and more cache, 3 cores and less cache.

 

[super-heated plasma]

I don't know if it's "spin," but Allard is a shyster in every sense of the word, selling the Xbox community his digital snake oil. Remember his talk of how the Xbox would usher in a new era of gaming? Look at its catalog.

"What can men do against such reckless hate?"

 

[kaching]

Katching, number one why can't I make the quote function work? Secondly PR by its very nature is at best a collection facts and points weighed heavily on the side of the PR provider. PR is usually directed at the industry rather than the general population as to be perfectly honest it’s the industry that passes on that PR. This way the PR becomes more 'factual' and more easily swallowed. When 3rd parties start saying how wonder X platform is to work with people tend to take that pill much easier than an MS vinegar cover offering. Fact is the message really originated from MS. Sony has been great at this over the past 5 yrs and I don't expect them to disappoint.

No idea why you can't make the quote function work. I promise not to change my previous post though

I don't really need you to tell me what PR is, Pug. I'm just not sure how this is effective PR because it really only preaches to the converted. 3rd parties aren't going to start saying how easy it is to develop for Xbox2 unless it's true, not just because MS said its true. Sony PR did nothing to hold back early complaints about PS2 development environment, for example. It was only through dedicated effort to improving that environment that you started to hear different stories from 3rd parties.

 

[Pug]

Katching, sorry you thought I preached to you. Maybe you should look at my public profile and look at my Job. It seems I take it home with me!

 

[AntoneM]

I did not get any confirmation about the number of cores yet either. But it looks like 512 Mbytes of RAM + cache is more and more likely.

Fucking-A!

 

[kaching]

Katching, sorry you thought I preached to you. Maybe you should look at my public profile and look at my Job. It seems I take it home with me!

No worries, Pug. Just stop inserting a 't' into my alias and we'll be square

 

[Ghost of Bill Gates]

I've got friends working on XB2 titles and even they won't tell me or do not know what the final CPU specs are/ or are going to be. What they have said is that they keep getting told the specs will not be tied down until the summer. MS seems to be giving themselves leeway although i'd be suprised is the CPU configuration wasn't set in stone. Funny thing is although we expect MS to release first we know less about the CPU in Xenon that the CPU in PS3.

I hope the rumor is true that MS is up'ing the RAM to 512mb.

With next gen consoles being so close tech wise, I believe ram will play a big role in which console developers feel is the most powerful.

 

[Kleegamefan]

I did not get any confirmation about the number of cores yet either. But it looks like 512 Mbytes of RAM + cache is more and more likely.

I agree....wonderful news.......

Hopefully, this will put the pressure on Sony to put (wishful thinking ) 512MB of XRDRAM in PS3......they did up the RAM in PSP a great deal, so.....

 

[xexex]

I've got friends working on XB2 titles and even they won't tell me or do not know what the final CPU specs are/ or are going to be. What they have said is that they keep getting told the specs will not be tied down until the summer. MS seems to be giving themselves leeway although i'd be suprised is the CPU configuration wasn't set in stone. Funny thing is although we expect MS to release first we know less about the CPU in Xenon that the CPU in PS3.

geeez, Microsoft is cutting it freaking close aren't they ? ....not finalizing specs until a couple of months before launch? usually a console's spec is locked down 1 year or more before release, am i right ?

 

[The End]

geeez, Microsoft is cutting it freaking close aren't they ? ....not finalizing specs until a couple of months before launch? usually a console's spec is locked down 1 year or more before release, am i right ?

right, but MS is doing everything they can to minimize the gap between Xenon and the PS3, so they're leaving it up in the air until the last possible moment.

 

[rastex]

right, but MS is doing everything they can to minimize the gap between Xenon and the PS3, so they're leaving it up in the air until the last possible moment.

Wrong. Tell me what console has had it's specs "locked down" a year before launch? And RAM is something that is very malleable and doesn't take much time for games to change to take advantage of them, in basic ways at least. I mean with a month or so left in a game and you find out you have double the RAM, you're not going to redo all your assets, but you'll push your LOD farther out, maybe use some higher res textures, that type of thing.

 

[gofreak]

If the spec isn't locked at E3 I'll be highly surprised. Asides from needing to show final hardware then (imo), they need a fair bit of manufacturing leadtime to have the quantities necessary for launch - and remember, they probably are looking to launch in both the US and Europe this year. A million units at least would probably be required. If they even left it till June, that'd only give them 5 months worth of manufacturing, or less..I always thought you'd need at least 6.

Then again, May (e3) is summer

 

[Kleegamefan]

Yeah...wasn't the XBOX finalized very close to launch too??

And IIRC, with PSP, it wasn't known until around TGS (sept. 2004) that there was an increase in RAM....

Yeah, I would imagine doing this is cutting it *very* close and it might make developers lives harder in the short term, but XBOX 360 (I hate that damn name) *must* be a viable product well into 2009, 2010 and perhaps even longer....so yes, closing whatever percieved gap between XBOX 360 and PS3 (as long as costs don't sprial too much) is very, very important to Microsoft, I would imagine...

 

[xexex]

right, but MS is doing everything they can to minimize the gap between Xenon and the PS3, so they're leaving it up in the air until the last possible moment.

YES. that's what it seems. I didn't put that into my post because I am so damn tired this afternoon :lol - you are absolutely right though. I believe. good to know Microsoft is going to bring us fairly new technology, unlike the PS2 when it released. especially here, 7-8 months later (early march Japan to late october USA)... PS2 was already getting old before it came out. Xenon is gonna be state of the freaking art when it hits, at least for its price, and at least for a few months anyway.

 

[The End]

YES. that's what it seems. I didn't put that into my post because I am so damn tired this afternoon :lol - you are absolutely right though. I believe. good to know Microsoft is going to bring us fairly new technology, unlike the PS2 when it released. especially here, 7-8 months later (early march Japan to late october USA)... PS2 was already getting old before it came out. Xenon is gonna be state of the freaking art when it hits, at least for its price, and at least for a few months anyway.

That said, Sony has plenty of time to tweak the PS3 once Xenon is released to manufacturing. Even assuming a March 2006 release in Japan, 8 months is long enough to ramp up clock frequencies and increase RAM.

 

[Blimblim]

If the spec isn't locked at E3 I'll be highly surprised. Asides from needing to show final hardware then (imo), they need a fair bit of manufacturing leadtime to have the quantities necessary for launch - and remember, they probably are looking to launch in both the US and Europe this year. A million units at least would probably be required. If they even left it till June, that'd only give them 5 months worth of manufacturing, or less..I always thought you'd need at least 6.

Then again, May (e3) is summer

The first Xbox was not finalized for its first E3. The hardware may not be totally finished, but lots of things can be produced even without knowing the full final specs. In fact everything except the motherboard and the CPU/GPU could be mass produced in the coming weeks or months.
MS a big plans for the end of the year though, so they'd better finalize everything quickly if they want to have enough hardware for the launchs. Also do not forget that they can have everything produced on their own by TSMC or any other semiconductor company, they will own or have full rights on all the consoles intellectual properties. Having multiple companies producing the hardware will certainly help a lot.