• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Xbox's automated 'moderation' systems need to be scrapped. Microsoft has fired thousands of customer service employees, and replaced them with AI

Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member
snNiRrakTKyfK3RQpkg8So-1200-80.jpg.webp



Over the past few weeks, it feels like I've received an uptick of Xbox customers reaching out to me either via email or direct message to help them overcome unfair bans. I wondered if it was coincidental, but I've also seen an uptick in the topic across social media as well, making me realize that Xbox has a ticking timebomb on its hands.

When you sign up for Xbox services on your Xbox Series X or Xbox Series S, or indeed any online gaming services, you sign a Terms of Service agreement which essentially denies you any rights to the content you've purchased. Even if you "buy" a game from any of these platforms, whether it's Xbox or not, you don't actually own anything. You own a license, to rent the item in question in perpetuity — or at least until Apple, Google, PlayStation, Microsoft, whoever, decides you no longer deserve it.

How do they decide whether or not you deserve access to the content you've purchased? Well, increasingly, these companies are using artificial intelligence. And increasingly, we're seeing an uptick in unfair banning practices with users left with absolutely no real path to appeal. This is not acceptable.

Microsoft fired hundreds of customer support employees over the past few years


hhLLgwnWPsm679nheHNyvF-1200-80.png


As part of Microsoft's recent Activision-Blizzard "restructuring," the company culled vast swaths of the firm's customer service team. Activision-Blizzard was one of the few gaming publishers that actually did invest heavily in human customer service support in-house, even though this service too was heavily understaffed, overworked, and oft-criticized by users. Little did these users know, things were about to get a whole lot worse.

It's hard to say for sure if the two events correlate, but over the past few weeks I've seen more and more players reaching out to me via various channels to try and help them get their accounts unbanned. I assume that perhaps, in part, it was due to our coverage of a YouTuber named GhillieYT who had their account unfairly banned in Minecraft. Content creators are increasingly being targeted in "mass reporting" events that Microsoft's automated systems take as legit, resulting in permanent account closures.



Frankly, Microsoft isn't paying us to do their customer service for them, and it absolutely shouldn't fall to us to have to back channel to help with these situations. Microsoft does have systems in place, reviewable by human beings, in order to get these situations resolved — but they are underbaked, and you guessed it, understaffed. YouTubers and big content creators have a platform by which they can get attention onto their unfairly-placed bans to get them overturned, many thousands, millions of others, do not.

I've also been approached by Call of Duty players who claim to have been "shadow banned" unfairly. Shadow banning in Call of Duty is a practice by which cheaters, chat abusers, and the like, are placed into a separate matchmaking pool separate from the general population. Microsoft also has Xbox DVR clips auto-upload feature enabled by default, yet, it will ban you for auto-sharing 18+ rated clips from sexy games like Baldur's Gate 3 or Cyberpunk 2077, despite the content from those games existing on their own servers.

And now, there's a new rabbit hole of automated-banning that is going to cause Microsoft another big headache.

Players in FFXIV are being banned for using innocuous, in-game terms

YNW5c3u9wzsWvtTV4oiJK6-1200-80.jpg.webp


Perhaps we should have seen this coming, but Microsoft is issuing permanent and total account bans to players in FFXIV, the MMO from Square-Enix, for using the phrase "Free Company." For those who don't know, Free Companies are essentially FFXIV's clan or guild system, where players can band together as mercs to take down the game's big scary beasties. Microsoft doesn't seem to care, however.

A viral tweet from Envinyon details how reddit user /u/TGB_B20kEn was handed a two-month account suspension for using the phrase "Free Company" in an LFG posting via Xbox. This simply is not acceptable.



If Microsoft is truly a serious gaming company, it needs to accept that human beings use words, and those words often have specific contexts. If their automated systems are too stupid to understand the absolute most basic innocuous contexts words and phrases might have, then it needs to throw the entire system into the garbage. Why assume the worst, if you're not going to moderate context appropriately?

I have literally no idea in what universe Microsoft thinks that "Free Company" denotes something harmful. It was suggested that the system assumed it could be interpreted as some kind of solicitation for "company," but seriously, if Microsoft isn't going to use human moderators in its system, it should give people the benefit of the doubt first.

The whole system needs a total policy overhaul. For every unfairly banned individual that is able to get attention on their case, there are probably hundreds who suffer in silence. Even if these are edge cases, this is not acceptable. And unless it's changed, it'll keep happening, and make people feel increasingly fearful about using Xbox Live in a social context.

We pay for this

ntQmmorJr3DWDYA8MRQauC-1200-80.jpg.webp


One of the most archaic things about console gaming is the fact we have to pay to play online. We are told that the fee subsidizes things like customer service, moderated gameplay, a less-cheat-susceptible environment — but none of that is true today. What exactly are we paying for, now? We're not paying for customer service, that's for sure. We're not paying to avoid cheaters — Microsoft forces competitive console FPS players to share pools with more-hack-prone PC matchmaking pools now. And we're sure as hell not paying for intelligent moderation systems.

Microsoft's obsession with automation has been a blight on the company's consumer operations for the best part of a decade. I myself recently got locked out of a second Microsoft 365 Business Account, and it took well over two weeks of constant calls to get it escalated and fixed, being passed around to different departments who didn't want to take responsibility to help me out. And that's their business-grade service.

It's increasingly apparent that Microsoft thinks it can have its cake and eat it from a customer service perspective — the most minimal amounts of investment possible, while also having a "safe" sanitized environments that won't cause PR headaches. Well, I'm here to cause a headache, because the system in place is increasingly not fit for purpose.

Microsoft's logic is that toxic environments probably drive people away from playing. They're probably right. But what if the toxic environment stems from worrying you'll get banned for playing well in a competitive match, only to get mass reported and banned for no reason, ending up in a Kafkaesque nightmare of broken customer support bots? Toxic players are bad, but so are toxic moderation practices. Both can drive people away from the platform, and Microsoft should take note.

Either put trained humans in charge of issuing bans, or ease these absurd, draconian moderation practices, Microsoft. You can't build a social gaming platform comprised of human beings, paying customers, and hand off your duty of care to robots who are too stupid to tell the difference between an FFXIV "Free Company" and "free company xoxox link in bio."

 

Puscifer

Member
The A.I. cats out the bag and isn't going back in, the reality is the sooner that companies start implementing it the sooner we can figure out what comes next. Can't lie that, yeah, even with my comfy project management job with the feds there's part of me wanting them to just go all in so I don't have to worry about *the moment* I'm replaced.
 
Last edited:

Nydius

Member
I understand that some customer support has to be automated because it’s impossible to expect a human to look at every single report that comes in. But some of the automated bans I’ve seen on Xbox forums and the various subreddits are just ludicrous.

It’s reached a point where the consensus around all the Xbox subs is to never communicate in public group chats, never communicate in game chats, never use LFG, and never respond to messages from anyone you don’t know because doing so is almost certainly going to get you a strike or a suspension. That’s not a very social environment anymore.
 

ShadowLag

Member
Back in early 2020 I was playing Call of Duty on PSN, and I made an attachment customization on a submachine gun that I wanted to save. I came up with the name "The Adjudicator" which I thought sounded cool for a custom gun. I tried saving it, and the name was outright blocked for being against their speech policity, code of conduct, whatever it's called. Such a name makes zero sense to manually flag as inappropriate, but I'm sure everyone remembers the political climate during this time.

ZyyeWGB.png


THIS was too spicy for a gun customization name in Call of Duty. They're terrified of speech, and it isn't just Xbox.
 
Last edited:

SHA

Member
I don't support any opinion no matter what that will damage the future of single player games, anything but that.
 
Another Microsoft initiative that is doing real harm to the industry. I really hope people can see all the anti gamer practices that are going on under Phil Spencer and Microsofts Xbox division. People should know it by now esp after the documents that came out of the Activision trial but as with most things, it takes longer than it should for people to see through the fog. Sony is no angel either with their awful return policies and customer service from hell. I'm sure Sony is using ai in similarly malicious ways but it's Microsoft that had been at the helm of radically altering the industry this gen with subscriptions and consolidation. Cloud gaming is the next thing they have their sights set on. I swear the more we hear about Phil and MS the more nefarious they sound.
 

T-800

Neo Member
Can safely say I will probably never buy a MS game in this lifetime. Too bad they own wow now and being afraid of typing anything in the chat is just fucking dystopian.

How do these darktide or helldivers2 or palworld survive with text chat, must be a bloodbath of "toxicity". Helldivers chat kinda sucks with zero history tho.
 

RespawnX

Member
Microsoft is forcing automation and AI in every possible (and impossible) aspect since years. Automated (false) translations in game texts, even in their brands "Edge" is translated in Germany as "Border"/"Rand" (no joke). Their Co-Pilot is the biggest software bubble I experienced in my career.

But automated community moderation sounds like their worst idea yet. That's nothing easy to handle even for a human as context and politics can be quite complicated and abstract. You don't need to be a genius to understand that today's AI is far away from understanding abstract terms - so which idiots approved this shit? Just asking to get his position (and salary).

Pretty sure they will be fucked really hard at some point, it's just a matter of time.
 
They are actively closing shop, they want these outcomes to chase players away.

I can’t figure out why though. Maybe they can’t go third party until the service fees stop rolling in for their finance department without some basis for refunds.

So they tie negative actions to anyone who partakes in the service, and waits for subs to fall off, then do something less successful built on smelling their own farts.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Yeah, I saw the issue with that dude that plays GTA Online got escalated and fixed.

I didn't even know it was that bad until seeing his video about it.

This needs to be fixed ASAP.
 

calistan

Member
Back in early 2020 I was playing Call of Duty on PSN, and I made an attachment customization on a submachine gun that I wanted to save. I came up with the name "The Adjudicator" which I thought sounded cool for a custom gun. I tried saving it, and the name was outright blocked for being against their speech policity, code of conduct, whatever it's called. Such a name makes zero sense to manually flag as inappropriate, but I'm sure everyone remembers the political climate during this time.

ZyyeWGB.png


THIS was too spicy for a gun customization name in Call of Duty. They're terrified of speech, and it isn't just Xbox.
I don’t know why they ban you from writing things on your own console that only you can see. Nobody else can tell what you named your guns in CoD.

Recently in MW3 I was making a few variations of a class, and it refused to accept ‘std’ as an abbreviation for standard.
 
I have been heavily investing in Microsoft platforms since they announced backwards compatibility back in 2015. It didn't hurt that I have been a stockholder since 2014, and have added to that almost every year. Their incompetence and malice towards their users is pretty much the end for me. I'm going to be buying a PC, stopping all purchases and future subscriptions with Microsoft (including Gamepass and Office 365, which I've been a huge proponent of), and making all of my gaming purchases on PC or other consoles moving forward. Tired of Microsoft treating their users like absolute shit. In my IT Administrator role I've already helped my company move from around 60 Windows servers to only 5,moving the rest to Linux. I will be keeping corporate versions of Office 365, as it's hard to beat or replicate, and that may be the only department of Microsoft that has been responsive or helpful so far. Overall though, I'm just tired of Microsoft treating us loyal customers like crap....

Over It Abandon Thread GIF
 

Skifi28

Member
So when A.I. has got everyones job, how do they think we will pay for these products the company is making?
That's the big question we're all asking. But it's not like corporations are going to look at the bigger picture, they'll just do what they can to maximize profits for themselves and let the governments sort things out. Most likely with terrible new laws that'll be way too late and introduce more issues than they solve.
 
Last edited:

Mithos

Member
Yet another reason to NOT use ingame text/voice chat. I understand people sitting in external chats with friends talking about something else, instead of sitting with the "team" they play with/against.
 
Last edited:

ReBurn

Gold Member
I do miss the days when powertripping assholes issued bans instead of cold, heartless robots.
 

Faust

Perpetually Tired
OG Xbox Live didn’t have any moderation. Zero people were harmed.

Moderation cost: $0.
Player enjoyment level: 100

Unless you’re hacking, you shouldn’t be moderated. Mute function exists. I use it often. I don’t need help using it.

Exactly. Give players the power to mute and block. Someone says something mean? Mute them, block them and move on. If you need to constantly cry about it, you shouldn't be playing games or online in general.

The only time moderation comes in is if things start to get to the point of doxxing, hacking, or breaking IRL laws.
 

T-0800

Member
The A.I. cats out the bag and isn't going back in, the reality is that sooner that companies start implementing it the sooner we can figure out what comes next. Can't lie that, yeah, even with my comfy project management job with the feds there's part of me wanting them to just go all in so I don't have to worry about *the moment* I'm replaced.
How about we put the cat to sleep then as I don't see any job in your future where an AI won't do better and cheaper.
 

T-0800

Member
Tech World is becoming a scary place. I know customer service covers a wide swath of subjects but we all know what it's doing with coding and other things.

Every company out there is looking for ways to eliminate human jobs in favor of AI for profits.
Lets say all jobs are eliminated eventually. Where do the customers with money come from to ensure continued profits?
 

simpatico

Member
I've always wondered how PC style server rentals would go over on XBL. I swear I think the community would love it. Just being able to set your own options, pick your own maps and most importantly, doing your own moderation without any billion dollar ESG corps listening in. Of course people on the internet would shit their pants over paying for tick rate and there would be drama, but I think it would be popular.
 
AI mods is basically how Youtube run things.

The problem isn't the fact that they are AI; the problem is that there is no mechanisim to speak to a real person. The same AI that bans you is also the same AI that determine if your case needed reviewing by a human. And AI always said it wasn't wrong.

The most famous case of a ban that gone public was the developer for the Terraria game. He was porting his game to Stadia but then all his gmail and youtube acccess were blocked when he was banned by the AI. He couldn't get ANY human to look at the case after multiple weeks, so he publicly declared on twitter that he would halt all porting of his game to Stadia until Google send a real human to unban his work email.
Complaint to Google
He eventually got a response. But he shouldn't HAVE to threaten Google in order to see a real human!

Now, this is Google and not Microsoft. But i am just showing you have bad things can get if it goes out of hand.
 
Top Bottom