Xbox's handheld 'Pembrooke' has been sidelined (for now), as Microsoft doubles down on Windows 11 PC gaming handheld optimization

Just wait until Steam OS becomes available for desktops and laptops

Then we're gonna see some shit

Linux is already available for desktops and laptops, and all the compatibility improvements SteamOS has is already available to Linux users.

We're not likely to see any meaningful inflection in Steam surveys for OS. Maybe an additional 1% increase over the next few years?

Then we heard about a possible Xbox handheld when Switch was mega popular, could be like a portable Series S.
And now Switch 2 is coming out in days and from previews it can reach ahead of Series S in some cases through DLSS and Nvidia magic.
So, yet again: Too slow!!

Switch 2 is nowhere near as powerful as the Series S, and we're probably years away from chips capable of running Series S games without any modifications, in handheld mode.

Then we have their rumored Xbox App UI update that could turn a Windows handheld and small form factor Windows PC into a console-like device.
Buuut then Valve is already ahead and is pushing out SteamOS to partners on handhelds and possibly prebuilds and Steam Machines.
So, yeah: Too slow!!

Handheld, yes. Desktop/SFF? Not even close.

Finally we have their rumored Xbox Next. Was apparently planned to launch in time for GTA6. They got lucky and GTA6 was delayed but I think it's safe to say that it won't be released in time next year either. And how far away is PS6 which is likely a step above? I wouldn't bet on the Xbox coming out before PS6. If it does then it'll be a year ahead at most, and that'll be this scenario: "Xbox Next is more like a Xbox Series X 1.5. PS6 is when the real next generation starts."
So, again: Too slow!!

🤷‍♂️😕

They were never planning to launch a new console ahead of GTA 6. It would have been utterly crazy to do that, and it'd have been a Series X 'Pro' console like the PS5 Pro. Something they categorically said they weren't doing.

Probably your fault for swallowing inane rumors of a 2025 next gen refresh. Nobody should really expect anything new gen before 2027.
 
🔴BREAKING NEWS

Unnanounced hardware confirmed to not release... INDEFINITELY! [RUMOR]
❗SHOCKWAVES felt through the INDUSTRY
❗Millions of LIVES of possible consumers changed FOREVER
❗UNCERTAINTY takes hold of REALITY

Stay tuned for more portable Xbox news, in the meantime click here for a new RTX5090RTi vs Switch 2 Cyberpunk 2077 comparison!
 
Their controllers are pretty good, tho.
And for all their faults, Xinput was a massively positive thing for PC gaming. DInput was and still is a mess, and Xinput helped shape PC gaming going forward. Just having a standardised set of inputs to have button glyphs for was a monumental upgrade from numbered inputs.

We can't pretend that PC gaming would have been quite the same without that.

Definitley giving credit where it's due there.
 
Honestly, the handheld was the only one of their upcoming hardware projects that seemed to make sense to me. They obviously have proven they cannot go head to head with PlayStation in a direct match up, because that never works for them. Offering a high end native Xbox portable, with all the ecosystem hooks, would be a great way to differentiate their hardware and have it be appealing to people, even with all Xbox games coming to PlayStation.

Of course, Xbox isn't in the habit of making good decisions, so it's not surprising this got canceled.
If they couldn't compete against Sony that keeps coasting the gen, they won't have any chance against Nintendo that owns the handheld market 🤷‍♂️
 
OK, hear me out....

Bringing up the Series S, yes that has clearly been a bottleneck for Xbox this generation, and it's held the Series X back. But we're also talking about 2020 tech with no form of actual hardware-dedicated ML/AI upscaling, and a bloated SDK with so many API choices it actually led to less optimized games vs. more. Those aren't going to be problems for a PS portable.
I think that's beyond optimistic. No amount of ML/AI scaling is going begin bridging the gap between a reasonably priced handheld and a 600 dollar-break even (before accounting for tariffs and assuming current price levels are mostly maintained) machine in 2028 or 2029; unless of course the handheld is prohibitively expensive, which would be beyond pointless.

Plus the other problem is also the cross gen issue. From least to most power, you will have to develop for the PS6 Portable, the PS5, the PS5 Pro, the PS6 and eventually a PS6 Pro going into the 2030s, with PC specs all across that range if they don't wise up. That is utterly ridiculous.

Sony & SIE aren't going to hamstrung their 10th gen systems by just ditching PSSR or cheaping out memory configurations just to save a few bucks at the expense of long-term performance through the gen. They won't make the PS6 and the rumored handheld on different technologies, and that handheld isn't going to have its own dedicated software library so it won't risk siphoning resources from PS6.
It siphons every kind of resource just by existing. Logistically, financially and technologically. This "just scale it bro" thing has never and will never be achieved, but you know what? To whatever extent it has been put in practice, devs will always develop from near to the lowest common denominator and then scale up. They'll literally just use the PS6 as a brute force, as we've seen time and time again. More SKUs = less optimization. No way around it.

A PS portable is a way different thing vs PSVR2, because the market for large, socially isolating headsets in general isn't very large, let alone for gaming.
The market for dedicated handhelds isn't large either.

VR won't have truly mainstream appeal until they get that thin, fashionable iPhone-like moment paired with real software ecosystem support, so that's a ways off. PS Portal hasn't really been a detriment to PS5 I feel, because it's just a streaming handheld. Devs don't have to do anything on their end to get games running on that thing.
Then streaming devices are fine, if still a logistical distraction.

The PC ports, I agree those are likely causing some gradual build-up of long-term damage, particularly because of all the non-GAAS which have been ported already plus the fact their GAAS strategy was partly in favor of having more games on PC, and we've seen now a lot of that has come at the expense of non-GAAS 1P one way or another. But we won't really know the impact of the PC strategy until PS6 launches, and that also depends on if SIE haven't already internally shifted to a more sensible (scaled back) strategy on that platform going forward.
They need to perform a metaphorical orbital strike on that strategy. All they've done is train 2-4 million+ PS4 users and a potentially similar number of PS5 users to understand that their game library will be totally available on a competing platform. We know the impact of this on Xbox, and we know that Nintendo has created a very lucrative autonomous zone for itself by not doing it.

Talking about userbase contraction though, the truth is unless there is a PS handheld next gen, there's going to be a contraction regardless even if SIE does everything right and avoids the mistakes they made this gen. That'll happen due to pricing trends likely being reflected again 10th gen (i.e no real price cuts, potential price increases throughout the gen),
Well this gen is experiencing a pricing problem because of a bunch of geopolitical shocks, but 2 major shocks that will almost definitely not occur again by the time we get to late 2028: Coof economic policy and a tariff fetish.

But you have to ask what it is that is causing the contraction we've seen now. Is it the consoles that are 100-300 dollars more expensive than last gen and the 70 dollar games? If it was that and that alone, you would have to assume that Xbox would be at least doing better than it is right now and that the PS5 would be even further behind the PS4 than it is . Microsoft's got a cheap hardware point and a subscription service that gives you day one access to a number of major releases for the price of just over 2 full AAA games per year. Last year they had Call of Duty. By the end of this year they'll have that, Oblivion, Doom, and the new (80 dollar) COD.

You would at least expect Doom to have garnered more than 3 million players being available on a 20+ million subscriber service and ala carte customers on both PC and PS. But maybe it's because the games are lame and the really good ones that are worth the money AND the time/attention are becoming more and more infrequent. Dark Ages isn't shit, but it's underwhelming; too similar to the last 2 instalments to entice new people, too different in the wrong ways to excite older fans.

Pricing matters yes, but what matters more is the package you're seemingly offering in conjunction with that price. If AAAs remain 70 dollars with the PS6 but are basically super-rezzed PS4 games with continued worsening creative direction and writing, I guarantee the games and the console will sell lower than both the PS4 and the PS5. If the first party pipeline is as inefficient and as lacking in PS4 lineup level appeal as it is this gen, the games could be 60 dollars, and it still wouldn't be as successful. And that is what the reality will lean towards with all of these things compromising the PS6.

continued growth of certain PC gaming platforms like Steam
Consoles have outgrown PC in revenue in the last 8 years and will continue to do so (especially when it comes to premium game sales) and if MAU is growing more on PC (which I'm not sure it is), it's not the MAU you want to subsume PS. Mostly free riders playing F2P stuff. What Sony needs to do in a market where Nintendo has a stranglehold on family friendly IP and semi-handheld gaming, and where PC dominates in indie access/F2P is entrench themselves as the curated, cutting edge premium ecosystem. Not try to tip toe on all 3 fronts.

Constantly undercutting the ecosystem for the sake of moar users is exactly why Microsoft is in the position that they are now. The methods and rate of impact may be different, but the underlying ethos and impacts themselves have shown themselves to be very similar.

and less exclusives (1P due to higher costs & longer dev times for AAA, potentially fewer AA than should be, so less releases; 3P due to less reason from 3P and platforms like Steam & Switch 2 getting more preferred Day 1 treatment).
They just need to fix those issues on a first party front. I get that it's easier said than done, but they can do it. From the Insomniac leak, they themselves recognized the elephant in the room regarding SM2. Triple the spend compared to SM1, even accounting for the ridiculous licensing fee (which Disney cannot continue to demand as the box office takes for all their IP decreases and other devs/publishers refuse to take them on because of it), costs alone were more than double both '18 and Miles Morales with very little tangible indicators to justify it.

We know it, the devs know it, Sony knows it. There's a personnel and cultural layer taking advantage of all the coof WFH orders, bloating workflows, and media-assisted picketing over crunch that lasted a decade. It will take decisive action and a whole bunch of layoffs to deal with. We've got the latter covered at least.

On the third party front, not worried about the Switch 2, that's for sure. We've heard for the last 2 gens that this time 3rd parties are going to support the anemic hardware going through the whole of the next gen. Not going to happen. Most of the stuff 3rd parties have announced for the Switch 2 are ports of cross gen games coming up to 5 years old.

Also it's clear in places like Japan non-portable consoles are shrinking in appeal
While PC is (seemingly) gaining ground there. I'm not sure precisely how far behind the PS5 compared to before in Japan, but last I checked, the gap was way smaller than thought. So then why are PCs growing? Less exclusivity no doubt, and more tending of the Japanese audience towards freemium games, sure. But then I also think that all this remaking, remastering and reduxxing that Japan is doing at the expense of new titles (to a similar or greater degree than Western publishers) is eroding appeal of new machines, whilst also giving weaker spec machines a chance to collect that library. Like, it'll he more than 10 years between Persona 5 and Persona 6 at best. Why? Because Atlus split their focus by remaking Persona 3 and redoing Persona 4 AGAIN. Btw, flooding the library with old games is another thing that will get in the way of the 9th and 10th gen.

The rest of your post is largely addressed by what I've already said.
 
I'm still baffled that SteamOS perform so much better than windows while these games are, for a huge majority native windows version and have to pass through proton.
I know Windows is full of shit not needed for these gaming handheld PCs (and other shit we simply not need at all but that's another story) but I'm amazed that despite the overhead needed by proton's translation layer, we have steamOS getting the juice off of these machines while windows can't even have decent performance over its own native shit.
 
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I have been saying that none of this Xbox hybrid shit people are talking about makes any sense. As Xbox continues to crater and less and less people buy their games there relative to ps5 and pc, they will drop the idea. Because it's stupid.
 
Switch 2 is nowhere near as powerful as the Series S, and we're probably years away from chips capable of running Series S games without any modifications, in handheld mode.
Check out Digital Foundry's video where they look at the longer footage from CDPR. They said that image quality and textures was way ahead of Series S on Switch 2, because of DLSS. They mentioned Street Fighter 6 as well, similar results. Performance is higher on Series S but when they drop the resolution to get the extra frames the image takes a serious hit. If hw with Series S power isn't even available yet then it's no wonder they cancelled this thing.
They were never planning to launch a new console ahead of GTA 6. It would have been utterly crazy to do that, and it'd have been a Series X 'Pro' console like the PS5 Pro. Something they categorically said they weren't doing.
Its something I said quite awhile ago that while at the round table within Xbox some felt IF they could get this together in time for GTA 6 and it be clearly the best place to play at launch it MIGHT help
🤷‍♂️
 
Check out Digital Foundry's video where they look at the longer footage from CDPR. They said that image quality and textures was way ahead of Series S on Switch 2, because of DLSS. They mentioned Street Fighter 6 as well, similar results. Performance is higher on Series S but when they drop the resolution to get the extra frames the image takes a serious hit. If hw with Series S power isn't even available yet then it's no wonder they cancelled this thing.


🤷‍♂️

IIRC, Image quality in stills were better, thanks to DLSS, but took a hit in motion. And that's even docked, running at a lower framerate. SF6 was always a terrible port on Series S. Often worse than the PS4 Pro. Raw performance, Switch 2 has a significantly weaker CPU and GPU.

Most devs aren't going to go back to update and re-craft their games to work on a handheld, so you'd need performance levels capable of running Series S code without adjustments in handheld mode.

Where do you see 'cancelled' in the OP?


that rumor does not seem credible at all. How did it make sense to imagine they were pushing for a next gen release before Q3 2025, even while still hiring for a project to bring BC to Windows?
 
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what?! currently they are selling an "elite" controller with an "elite" price, which is breaking in your hands within a year.
Not familiar with the elite controllers from both MS or Sony. But from what I can say, the "standard" controllers from MS are pretty good. Never had any issues with them. The layout is good, haptics are solid. Build quality is solid.
 
Their controllers are pretty good, tho.

I disagree.
- Flimsy bumper buttons
- Flimsy triggers
- Flimsy trigger dampening stops that detach /come off easily (they're 2 miniscule stickers ffs).
- Rumble mechanisms which come off their position (had 2 of these straight out of the box).

These are of absolute horrible quality, then again, this generation has been shit when it comes to controllers (no matter the brand/company) so...
 
I disagree.
- Flimsy bumper buttons
- Flimsy triggers
- Flimsy trigger dampening stops that detach /come off easily (they're 2 miniscule stickers ffs).
- Rumble mechanisms which come off their position (had 2 of these straight out of the box).

These are of absolute horrible quality, then again, this generation has been shit when it comes to controllers (no matter the brand/company) so...
Then I was lucky, I guess.
 
Then I was lucky, I guess.

In the end Hudo, yes, nowadays it's mostly about luck man.
As an example, I had my OG Dualsense that came with my Phat PS5 for 1.5 years with no problems whatsoever, the one that came with my Pro decided to die on me after not even 2 months, same thing with my black Dualsense which started drifting after 1.5 years...

Look at the Sony headsets , every post that you read is about them snapping on the same exact spot.

What I'm trying to say is that when the problems encountered are the exact same when it comes to a product, maybe it's all about the horrible and inexistent quality control and planned obsolescence and NOT about user error.

Dualsenses have well documented stick drift problems, Xbox joypads the same and let's not forget what happened with the OG Nintendo joycons.

QC has gone down the drain and I don't know how these friggin' companies keep getting away with it
 
It depends on how Sony handles PS6 target and compatibility. If Sony demands that devs target 4K120/8K60 for the home console, then scaling that down to a 1080p60 handheld is easy. They can also make handheld support optional, so devs would only target it during cross-gen period, while late-gen games that really push PS6 could skip the handheld.

Their BC profiles that currently run the x86 code designed for the Jaguar/GCN soc's, would have to be completely be overhauled to run software designed for Zen 2/RDNA2 soc's, at a 15-20W cap on a supposedly Zen 6/UDNA(2?) soc. The handheld vs the base PS5 comparisons are going be a clickbait farm on youtube.

Making the handheld optional would backfire on monumental levels, think Vita levels of numbers, instead of the PSP.
 
If they can make the next Xbox handheld be little more powerful then the series s. They would have something pretty nice for that small package
 
IIRC, Image quality in stills were better, thanks to DLSS, but took a hit in motion.
Motion issues doesn't matter when they're trying to sell that thing. They can't have any scenario where a side-by-side shot show better quality on Switch 2 if they arrive later. That's why all those Switch 2 versus this and that videos exist now, people aren't talking about performance, they're talking about graphics and image quality. In short Switch 2 is too close to everything thanks to DLSS. Not for 1st party titles but Cyberpunk, FF7R, SF6. If there is a Xbox handheld coming out, or a ROG Ally variant, it needs to be far ahead of Switch 2 which will otherwise steamroll it completely from platform and IP power.
Where do you see 'cancelled' in the OP?
Okay "sidelined". It'll either be cancelled or delayed for years. The conclusion doesn't change. They're too slow.
that rumor does not seem credible at all. How did it make sense to imagine they were pushing for a next gen release before Q3 2025, even while still hiring for a project to bring BC to Windows?
I don't know I'm just posting what I saw posted here. In the end it's clear that they have multiple plans cooking but they're just too slow.

Are you positive about the Xbox PC hybrid variant coming out even a year after GTA6? I'm not. They're all in on milking the PS userbase with late ports now with no Gamepass cannibalism lowering sales, they'll probably be fine doing that for a long time. Hardware side will have a lower priority, once they start porting to Switch 2 as well they're going to have a software revenue they've never seen before.
 
This is like getting benched before you even get off the starting line. Pretty embarrassing.

Given how much MS are focusing on pushing Xbox OS-style features into Windows environment, I won't be surprised if the 2027 Xbox handheld (which sounds like would still prioritize Xbox OS) gets quietly cancelled. Steam OS is dogwalking Windows right now in gaming performance anyway, so I guess MS have to choose priorities sooner vs. later, and they're choosing Windows.



Valve are so far ahead of MS on this "consolizing PC" thing it's not even funny. But that's because they've been gradually working towards it since 2004. Decades of experience, revolutionized (or at least streamlined) the PC gaming space in terms of storefronts & distribution, and they're working with a better kernel for their OS.

MS can still catch up in theory, but they'll have to seriously commit and try actually competing. No buying their way to relevancy on this one.



Don't worry, you'll still get your Xbox game access in some form...emulated...on Windows.

You'll still get some OEM devices with Xbox stickers slapped on them ;)
The only way MS could regain control of PC is by delisting their games from Steam and making them exclusive to the windows store/gamepass. They have to leverage all the content they now own. Otherwise they are toast on both the console and PC side.
 


Lmao the replies:

K9TwIgS.jpeg
 
Okay "sidelined". It'll either be cancelled or delayed for years. The conclusion doesn't change. They're too slow.

There's absolutely no reason for their handheld to come out before 2027 or 2028. None.

Frankly, they'd be daft to push for an earlier release. The technology isn't there, at consumer friendly prices.

Are you positive about the Xbox PC hybrid variant coming out even a year after GTA6? I'm not.

They certainly don't need to put out any new hardware before 2028. Not sure what GTA6 has to do with anything.

I read all those rumors about 'Xbox Next' in 2025/2026 and found them strange because it made no sense. Of course that was before they showed up with stupid decisions like hiking their prices.
 
It depends on how Sony handles PS6 target and compatibility. If Sony demands that devs target 4K120/8K60 for the home console, then scaling that down to a 1080p60 handheld is easy. They can also make handheld support optional, so devs would only target it during cross-gen period, while late-gen games that really push PS6 could skip the handheld.
The cross-gen period will be very long anyway, and if the PS6 handheld can play PS5 games natively without developer intervention, then software support for the device is basically guaranteed for a long time.
 
Xbox console digital library is cooked. Only a matter of time before they only support PC versions of their games.
They are building an emulator so they can get completely away from bespoke software and put everything on Windows. IMHO.

Turns out after all this time Windows is shit for gaming so they are trying to fix that too.

Imagine having to deal with Windows jank everytime you wanted to play a simple game.

Who has been running Windows all these years that the gaming is still so bad on it and missing major features? That is the real scandal here. How has this not already been done?
 
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Hardware doesn't matter when everything is an Xbox, focusing on contents what really matters. I'd rather have the quality and quantity of ps2 contents while hiding the ugly box behind my setup than just showing the logo I warship.
 
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I have had my Sony WH-1000XM5 for quite some time now and never experienced any problems so far. I must be really lucky, I guess.
My XM3's are still going strong with no sign of failure.

...OTOH, my first PS5 died like during the first couple of hours. Shit happens and all that.
 
This is typical MS. Start an idea and not follow through, giving up during the process or change strategies out of the blue. At least this time they didn't even release something they would then change their minds. They are learning.

That said it would be hilarious if Sony released a handheld first in the middle of all this and again be one step ahead of MS (like cloud gaming, etc)
 
There's absolutely no reason for their handheld to come out before 2027 or 2028. None.

Frankly, they'd be daft to push for an earlier release. The technology isn't there, at consumer friendly prices.



They certainly don't need to put out any new hardware before 2028. Not sure what GTA6 has to do with anything.

I read all those rumors about 'Xbox Next' in 2025/2026 and found them strange because it made no sense. Of course that was before they showed up with stupid decisions like hiking their prices.
No reason?
Okay let's toy with the idea that they're sitting on their laurels for 3 years just happily raking in money from PS5 and Switch 2 fans on old ports and a handful of new titles. It's no rush, people still play their games, right? And they always have Windows and Gamepass so no worries..,

Then this happens:
1. Epic starts to play nice with Linux. Fortnite and the whole Epic Games Store works perfectly fine on SteamOS. Runs better than on Windows.
2. Valve makes it possible to trigger swap to other stores like EGS, install and purchase games through SteamOS. Multi store big screen mode.
4. SteamOS is readily available on prebuilds, handhelds, Steam-consoles, and runs everything better than Windows.
5. Valve release a line of controllers with SteamOS button inputs, and let 3rd party manufacturers do the same, making Steam inputs the default for PC and handheld gaming.
6. Gamepass is still not usable on SteamOS.
7. Valve says "Nah." regarding the idea of having Steam on a future Xbox, because they already have their own consoles plus gaming PCs use SteamOS now.

Now what?

No hardware at all, shrinking OS side for gaming, shrinking Gamepass subscription numbers because it's only usable on shrinking Windows and dead Xbox, no 3rd party devs jumping in on Gamepass deals because it's less than 10m subscribers and shrinking.

What do they actually have left?
They have the games I guess.
 
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No reason?
Okay let's toy with the idea that they're sitting on their laurels for 3 years just happily raking in money from PS5 and Switch 2 fans on old ports and a handful of new titles. It's no rush, people still play their games, right? And they always have Windows and Gamepass so no worries..,

Then this happens:
1. Epic starts to play nice with Linux. Fortnite and the whole Epic Games Store works perfectly fine on SteamOS. Runs better than on Windows.
2. Valve makes it possible to trigger swap to other stores like EGS, install and purchase games through SteamOS. Multi store big screen mode.
4. SteamOS is readily available on prebuilds, handhelds, Steam-consoles, and runs everything better than Windows.
5. Valve release a line of controllers with SteamOS button inputs, and let 3rd party manufacturers do the same, making Steam inputs the default for PC and handheld gaming.
6. Gamepass is still not usable on SteamOS.
7. Valve says "Nah." regarding the idea of having Steam on a future Xbox, because they already have their own consoles plus gaming PCs use SteamOS now.

Now what?

No hardware at all, shrinking OS side for gaming, shrinking Gamepass subscription numbers because it's only usable on shrinking Windows and dead Xbox, no 3rd party devs jumping in on Gamepass deals because it's less than 10m subscribers and shrinking.

What do they actually have left?
They have the games I guess.


You lost the plot at 'shrinking OS' and 'shrinking Windows' tbh.

Where did you get the 'sitting on laurels' part when you're in a thread where the OP says MS is scrambling to improve Windows on PC handhelds?
 
You lost the plot at 'shrinking OS' and 'shrinking Windows' tbh.

Where did you get the 'sitting on laurels' part when you're in a thread where the OP says MS is scrambling to improve Windows on PC handhelds?
Scrambling and juggling multiple ideas while being too slow is what will get them into such scenarios.

I'm just tired of hearing about all these ideas and then seeing them stumble around like Bambi on ice trying to get all kinds on unrealistic plans right that they'll never properly execute.


This is what would work:

1) revive Xbox 360 blades UI and turn that into the big screen mode.
2) let every store have their own blade, trigger swap between blades.
3) get that UI onto everything, standard Windows PCs, handhelds, consoles. No differences, same experience everywhere.
4) Once in the UI, completely silence the backend Windows stuff. There can't be a single pop up. Ever. And Nvidia drivers etc needs to be installed from the blades UI as a simplistic check system update - graphics - one button click.
5) New Xbox hardware out every 5 year. Numbered. Xbox Console Gen 5,6,7.
6) Stop talking. Just do it.
 
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