Lol he and Larry Hryb to a lesser extent have been taking pot shots at Phil ever since they left.
We need a guy who loves SteamOS the wayThis is actually insane:
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On Microsoft's own game. You couldn't make this shit up.
kratos and marster chied raised me buuuuuuuuut i play 95 percents portimble now so i choosed switch 2We need a guy who loves SteamOS the wayGigaBowser loves Nintendo.
This is why MS is freaking out, and the Xboys are kind of running around like headless chickens.On Microsoft's own game. You couldn't make this shit up.
Putting an Xbox sticker on every Windows 11 PC right next to the Intel sticker.I think we'll see an alienware type Xbox branded PC line but it's not going to be what people think it will be. It certainly won't be an Xbox console.
Windows OS will never allow booting directly into games and out of games as a supported feature.They sweating that SteamOS, and for very good reason. Honestly, even if they make Windows more handheld friendly, you should just go SteamOS.
The handheld fell into such an odd category with the Xbox branded Asus handheld coming
I think a lot were asking where is the need for this true Xbox handheld?
I don't think Microsoft has a year to make Windows better…This is why MS is freaking out, and the Xboys are kind of running around like headless chickens.
The native Xbox handheld being "sidelined" kind of feels like all Xbox hardware is being sidelined. Windows is basically an enterprise OS pushing AI, ads, security, telemetry out the wazoo, Isn't the whole point of an Xbox OS to be more like SteamOS; a focused, gaming-first experience?
So now Microsoft is going to waste a whole year trying to "fix" Windows, maybe even trying to release a Linux version (thinking that magically is going to make Windows less shit -when they can't even get the current version right). To me, this is just more evidence that Microsoft doesn't know how to exist in the gaming industry.
Putting an Xbox sticker on every Windows 11 PC right next to the Intel sticker.
The Xbox brand will be diluted by inconsistent gaming experiences across a wide range of devices until MS kills it off down the line and rolls everything back into Windows.
Also,We've heard for the last 2 gens that this time 3rd parties are going to support the anemic hardware going through the whole of the next gen. Not going to happen. Most of the stuff 3rd parties have announced for the Switch 2 are ports of cross gen games coming up to 5 years old.
That reads like exactly the same thing being pursued by MS, tbh.
This always sounded like an either/or situation with the Xbox handheld or improving Windows for handheld PCs. Doing both made no sense, unless it was a strategy of pursue both and eventually pick one to focus on.
I think streamlining Windows for better gaming performance is the better path. A dedicated Xbox handheld was never going to be successful when they're selling 50% less hardware with each generation. Hopefully a gaming focused version of Windows will work on desktop PCs eventually. I would move my gaming rig to it and make some sacrifices if it improved performance.
"Re-allocation of resources" makes this an interesting development. Possibilites:
- Microsoft are pushing ahead with their Windows-based Xbox emulator, so why bother with an Xbox handheld when using the extra resources to optimise handheld Windows provides, effectively, the same ultimate result.
- They're shifting their own handheld to use Windows 11 directly instead of a proper Xbox-OS, so why not let third parties test it in the wild.
- Windows is going to get an "Xbox" mode, meaning there's a chance the big boy console may actually have Windows on it and really just be a pre-built pc.
And, of course, the always-entirely-possible option: Microsoft doesn't know what the fuck its doing, and are just following whatever the decision-making Groundhog inferred with its grunts in their latest quarterly meeting.
Also,thicc_girls_are_teh_best it's worth mentioning that if this does happen, it would be Sony's fault. By creating a weak PS6 Portable, they're giving devs an out to where their games can be conceived and designed around a lowest common denominator that is closer to the Switch 2 compared to what it would be if the PS6 Portable didn't exist.
I think this is a good point. Does anyone really think Microsoft is going to "streamline" their OS by taking out all this shit? There is no way that gaming is a higher priority than the stuff you mentioned. That stuff isn't going anywhere and if anything future Windows will have more of it, not less, and have less options for users to strip it out.This is why MS is freaking out, and the Xboys are kind of running around like headless chickens.
The native Xbox handheld being "sidelined" kind of feels like all Xbox hardware is being sidelined. Windows is basically an enterprise OS pushing AI, ads, security, telemetry out the wazoo, Isn't the whole point of an Xbox OS to be more like SteamOS; a focused, gaming-first experience?
So now Microsoft is going to waste a whole year trying to "fix" Windows, maybe even trying to release a Linux version (thinking that magically is going to make Windows less shit -when they can't even get the current version right). To me, this is just more evidence that Microsoft doesn't know how to exist in the gaming industry.
Very few games are ported to Linux which SteamOS is built on. Valve cannot take over PC gaming if they are reliant on Microsoft's API.I don't think Microsoft has a year to make Windows better…
All that is needed for SteamOS to snowball until it takes over completely is some Steam walls going down.
Currently Steam isn't convenient if you use other store fronts. The perfect user experience kinda fall flat on it's face for anything outside of Steam.
But a big update later it could all be fixed. Could happen in a month. They just need to let you log into multiple store accounts, like Playnite, so you could get access to your complete PC library directly within Steam. And they could allow access to multiple stores through web stores within the UI.
Things would kinda be over for Microsoft.
So you just didn't read my previous reply at all. It's alright man. Not even your fault Sony's doing this madness. Looking forward to see your opinions when all of the dust settles on this.You're overlooking the ML upscaling/downscaling side of this though. It's why I was stressing there are certain technological features and support in the APIs that SIE need to absolutely get solidified ahead of time, to make the process of supporting it as painless as possible. To where it's the hardware and APIs doing most of the heavy lifting, and on the programmer's side it's as easy as typing up metadata that the APIs understand to translate into system calls, knowing exactly what instructions need to be issued and when.
If they can do that, then the PS handheld doesn't exist as a bottleneck; it exists as an opportunity. It exists as an option, it exists to bring in more people who otherwise might not have bought a PlayStation. The shared technologies between the handheld and console need to be the same and be seamless, that's how devs can scope around the console and simply have system & API features scale settings down for the handheld to run correctly.
So far the "gradual build-up of long-term damage" is just more money in the bank.
But you're right, at least in theory, the consequences might come later. That's how it was for Xbox, they too started with late ports and then Steam releases. But Xbox wasn't sitting at an 80 million userbase 5 years into the generation with no competitor in sight when they started spreading out…
That said, if Valve does something incredibly awesome for the living room things could change. Then a new challenger has arrived with Sony's own games on it. A wise move would probably be to have their own launcher, if things truly go south they could move the games there, wouldn't be popular but stranger things has happened.
It also depends on other factors for me. Do they give it more time to bake or do they go out with it on day 1 alongside PS6?
How long have they been baking this return to handheld and is the PS6 designed from the ground up to be a low resolution and heavily PSSR 2.x reliant baseline. Would the home PS6 be hamstrung if developers started from the portable form factor and then "just" had denser geometry, higher resolution render buffers and textures (and higher framerate) but everything else had to stay the same? Would people find it a big enough jump from PS5 and PS5 Pro?
Would we be able to have path tracing in games on PS6? How would this be handled on the portable console (would PSSR be good enough to achieve that?).
The key is not to expect developers to make totally custom versions for each platform… if PS6 has devs pushing path tracing, how would devs adapt to the mobile console? I guess it would be like a DOOM: The Dark Ages situation where you have path tracing built on top of ray tracing and no naked lighting fallback…
Would this handheld be able to connect to the TV? How would it perform there? Would that impact PS6 sales?
At this point I'm just genuinely open to a legitimate 3rd player into the console space, preferably an outsider who's hungry for expansion and wanting to prove themselves as a success, to spice things back up. Nintendo's settled into a groove now that Switch has been such a massive success, so Switch 2 isn't quite an innovative risk, tho I feel Nintendo will still bring the innovations with the games themselves.
Meanwhile, SIE feel on one hand complacent (due to past successes and the home console (non-portable) side of the core gaming market basically consolidating around their brand with Xbox's implosion) and on the other hand, lost & confused. I chalk a lot of that up to much of the old guard from many gens ago having departed, and their senseless GAAS push through much of this gen. If they are in fact course-correcting, well it'd be a while to start seeing results of it in a more predictable fashion, and SIE are so isolated from their community that any such strategic shifts just simply don't get mentioned publicly. Unfortunately we're at the mercy of shoddy games media press and leakers, and we've seen already most of them are either shit at their job or disingenuous to use their platform for various agendas.
Those are reasons why I've been looking more closely at Valve's movements because if there's any company who's a platform holder in some capacity with a real shot at shaking things up, I have to say it's them. But given their size, they'll need tight synergies with OEMs to "make it happen" at scale. MS are trying to do similar things, but they're reactive and are coming off an abject failure in the traditional console space; there is simply no reason to trust they'll get consolized PC hybrids right when they couldn't revitalize their own console brand after spending $80+ billion dollars. I guess in theory there's also Apple, and they have been making strides in getting more core gaming devs/pubs to support macOS, but they lack the mindshare presence and experience in that space of SIE, Nintendo, Microsoft and Valve.
And beyond that there aren't really any other genuine options. Google's a no-go, same with Samsung. Tencent have been scaling back some of their investments in gaming, so little chance they'd commit to a console. Companies like SEGA, SNK and NEC aren't in the hardware game anymore. It's frustrating because IMO there are still some very cool & truly forward immersive directions gaming could go on, and at one point a few years ago I thought SIE could've been the ones to take the industry there, but that isn't the case anymore. They seemed like the best bet in terms of the "complete package" but a lot of decisions from them the past couple of years have shown they don't have that type of drive or vision, they are content with mostly playing things safe and maximizing profit margins.
Nintendo have potential in some aspects (less so in others, since they don't push tech the way SIE does, although this isn't all about advanced tech), but they usually don't truly push for a big innovation unless their backs are against the wall coming off a big failure. MS have the resources in theory, but their gaming division seems stretched thin in too many different & conflicting directions, their commitment to hardware is questionable, and their investment/commitment to technologies like VR/MR & such for gaming purposes is generally poor.
I think that's beyond optimistic. No amount of ML/AI scaling is going begin bridging the gap between a reasonably priced handheld and a 600 dollar-break even (before accounting for tariffs and assuming current price levels are mostly maintained) machine in 2028 or 2029; unless of course the handheld is prohibitively expensive, which would be beyond pointless.
Plus the other problem is also the cross gen issue. From least to most power, you will have to develop for the PS6 Portable, the PS5, the PS5 Pro, the PS6 and eventually a PS6 Pro going into the 2030s, with PC specs all across that range if they don't wise up. That is utterly ridiculous.
It siphons every kind of resource just by existing. Logistically, financially and technologically. This "just scale it bro" thing has never and will never be achieved, but you know what? To whatever extent it has been put in practice, devs will always develop from near to the lowest common denominator and then scale up. They'll literally just use the PS6 as a brute force, as we've seen time and time again. More SKUs = less optimization. No way around it.
The market for dedicated handhelds isn't large either.
Then streaming devices are fine, if still a logistical distraction.
They need to perform a metaphorical orbital strike on that strategy. All they've done is train 2-4 million+ PS4 users and a potentially similar number of PS5 users to understand that their game library will be totally available on a competing platform. We know the impact of this on Xbox, and we know that Nintendo has created a very lucrative autonomous zone for itself by not doing it.
Well this gen is experiencing a pricing problem because of a bunch of geopolitical shocks, but 2 major shocks that will almost definitely not occur again by the time we get to late 2028: Coof economic policy and a tariff fetish.
But you have to ask what it is that is causing the contraction we've seen now. Is it the consoles that are 100-300 dollars more expensive than last gen and the 70 dollar games? If it was that and that alone, you would have to assume that Xbox would be at least doing better than it is right now and that the PS5 would be even further behind the PS4 than it is . Microsoft's got a cheap hardware point and a subscription service that gives you day one access to a number of major releases for the price of just over 2 full AAA games per year. Last year they had Call of Duty. By the end of this year they'll have that, Oblivion, Doom, and the new (80 dollar) COD.
You would at least expect Doom to have garnered more than 3 million players being available on a 20+ million subscriber service and ala carte customers on both PC and PS. But maybe it's because the games are lame and the really good ones that are worth the money AND the time/attention are becoming more and more infrequent. Dark Ages isn't shit, but it's underwhelming; too similar to the last 2 instalments to entice new people, too different in the wrong ways to excite older fans.
Pricing matters yes, but what matters more is the package you're seemingly offering in conjunction with that price. If AAAs remain 70 dollars with the PS6 but are basically super-rezzed PS4 games with continued worsening creative direction and writing, I guarantee the games and the console will sell lower than both the PS4 and the PS5. If the first party pipeline is as inefficient and as lacking in PS4 lineup level appeal as it is this gen, the games could be 60 dollars, and it still wouldn't be as successful. And that is what the reality will lean towards with all of these things compromising the PS6.
Consoles have outgrown PC in revenue in the last 8 years and will continue to do so (especially when it comes to premium game sales) and if MAU is growing more on PC (which I'm not sure it is), it's not the MAU you want to subsume PS. Mostly free riders playing F2P stuff. What Sony needs to do in a market where Nintendo has a stranglehold on family friendly IP and semi-handheld gaming, and where PC dominates in indie access/F2P is entrench themselves as the curated, cutting edge premium ecosystem. Not try to tip toe on all 3 fronts.
Constantly undercutting the ecosystem for the sake of moar users is exactly why Microsoft is in the position that they are now. The methods and rate of impact may be different, but the underlying ethos and impacts themselves have shown themselves to be very similar.
They just need to fix those issues on a first party front. I get that it's easier said than done, but they can do it. From the Insomniac leak, they themselves recognized the elephant in the room regarding SM2. Triple the spend compared to SM1, even accounting for the ridiculous licensing fee (which Disney cannot continue to demand as the box office takes for all their IP decreases and other devs/publishers refuse to take them on because of it), costs alone were more than double both '18 and Miles Morales with very little tangible indicators to justify it.
We know it, the devs know it, Sony knows it. There's a personnel and cultural layer taking advantage of all the coof WFH orders, bloating workflows, and media-assisted picketing over crunch that lasted a decade. It will take decisive action and a whole bunch of layoffs to deal with. We've got the latter covered at least.
On the third party front, not worried about the Switch 2, that's for sure. We've heard for the last 2 gens that this time 3rd parties are going to support the anemic hardware going through the whole of the next gen. Not going to happen. Most of the stuff 3rd parties have announced for the Switch 2 are ports of cross gen games coming up to 5 years old.
While PC is (seemingly) gaining ground there. I'm not sure precisely how far behind the PS5 compared to before in Japan, but last I checked, the gap was way smaller than thought. So then why are PCs growing? Less exclusivity no doubt, and more tending of the Japanese audience towards freemium games, sure. But then I also think that all this remaking, remastering and reduxxing that Japan is doing at the expense of new titles (to a similar or greater degree than Western publishers) is eroding appeal of new machines, whilst also giving weaker spec machines a chance to collect that library. Like, it'll he more than 10 years between Persona 5 and Persona 6 at best. Why? Because Atlus split their focus by remaking Persona 3 and redoing Persona 4 AGAIN. Btw, flooding the library with old games is another thing that will get in the way of the 9th and 10th gen.
I can't seriously fucking wait until the PlayStation handheld finally gets revealed. The meltdown from all those graphic whores and 'le cross-gen garbage' people will be one for the fucking ages, while all the rest of us [normal folks] are pumped for it!
This is actually insane:
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On Microsoft's own game. You couldn't make this shit up.
Lot of stuff/leaks point out to that being the case. Keep an eye over SIE's announcements in 2026 and 2027.Do you think the PS handheld is real?
I'd love a PS handheld, but I'd want it just to access my PS library on the go. Not streaming either. I want to download games to the device. However, I'm not sure we're at the point tech wise where Sony can release a handheld that plays PS5 games, while also making it affordable.
Steamos itself won't threaten windows, but when arm translation comes, using it you'd barely be playing your pc games on a pc anymore. Valve will have completely broken broken out. There would be only open competition for those devices, and they could end up being expected to run steamos.
A purpose-built Linux distro with resources behind it can evolve fast and steam's viral economy would be pretty fucking hard for ms to follow. It's everything they suck at.
Lot of stuff/leaks point out to that being the case. Keep an eye over SIE's announcements in 2026 and 2027.
I still think that as far as handhelds go, a PlayStation handheld is a bigger market demo than PC handhelds.
Where I think SteamOS has a bigger future is in becoming the go-to gaming OS for PCs, primarily prebuilt gaming PCs. That's a major threat to Microsoft and where their focus should be on creating a lite weight mode for gaming within windows as soon as possible rather than wasting engineering time on getting Xbox BC working on Windows. There's such little actual value in that.
It's not happening, both PS6 and PS6P will be released by late 2027. Nintendo Switch 2 will not be at over 20M units sold by that point, which is not insignificant, but not a big deal either, IMO.If Sony is smart they'll push out a PS5 family handheld soon and hold off on the PS6 for as long as possible with the PS6 family handheld, but if they were on that timeline, I think we'd be hearing a lot more about the PS5 handheld than we have.
I don't think they can give the Switch 2 more than a year and a half on the market by itself. We'll see if the rumor mill starts to spin up more heavily late this year.
It's not happening, both PS6 and PS6P will be released by late 2027. Nintendo Switch 2 will not be at over 20M units sold by that point, which is not insignificant, but not a big deal either, IMO.
When handheld "pc's" are coming in a little cheaper and efficient with arm, and defaulting to steamos, they'll sell a lot more. Probably still a long way from a well executed ps portable. Who knows when that could actually happen, though.
There's just zero incentive for Sony to release a PS6 in 2027, none.
The fundamental problem of handheld PCs that no one ever wanted to explore is the idea that PC users who have a PC library value playing said library on a handheld. The same people who in large part prefer to use KBM to play their games. The more popular genres on PC really struggle under the concept of a handheld shaped like a gamepad.
No one wants to play WoW on a gamepad and WoW isn't even on Steam...
PC handhelds when compared to console handhelds will always be niche and underperforming and expensive.
Yeah, 500 dollars lowest. Honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a matching 600 either.What price are you expecting the handheld to hit? Personally, I wouldn't expect anything less than $499. The PS Portal occupies the $199 space, and the PS6 is probably going to be $599 (digital only; $699 with a disc drive).
Well they've got a real problem is they don't have a machine that is capable of doing things the Pro can't do by the end of the decade. But your given specs would still blow the PS5 out of the water and the portable would be less powerful than that.I'm also not expecting a PS6 that's going to be "astronomically" more powerful than PS5 Pro in terms of raw specs. As in, no 50 TF monster or something with 2 TB/s RAM bandwidth or a 4 TB SSD. Can't see that happening. I'm gonna guess it'll be ~ 25 TF tops, and probably around 1-1.2 TB/s bandwidth with a max 2 TB SSD around 8-9 GB/s raw bandwidth. And probably 24-32 GB of RAM.
Zero chance. None. These devs are not going to have mastered the ML techniques necessary for this, even if the handheld was sufficiently powerful for it. You said to someone else that you think the CPU in the PS6 and Portable will be the same? Flat 0% chance of that happening. I don't think it would be physically possible, and it definitely wouldn't be financially. Either they're charging more than the actual PS6 for it which means it's DOA, or they're legitimately losing 100+ dollars per unit, which makes it impossible for greenlighting.The point of the ML/AI tech would not be to have a PS6 Portable that matches up with the PS6 indistinguishably. It'd be to be good enough so the portable can have low enough baseline specs to upscale to acceptable & quality performance levels, and to automate as much of the performance scaling process as possible so devs can implement the minimal amount of additional code & metadata on their end.
It's a mixture. One (and just one) of the reasons why we've plateaued in visual fidelity this gen is because most studios have switched from baked assets to real time rendering. That is obviously going to be more demanding, and significantly enough to cut into visual advancement.Again, I think it all comes down to what exactly the PS6 will actually entail, because what could be put in a PS6-based handheld that's satisfactory by 2028, and at a reasonable price, will be better than can be done today.
Plus, I've been of the mind for a while that the things truly holding back game visuals/fidelity isn't even the hardware so much these days. Go look at stuff like TLOU Part 2; still better fidelity than many current AAA games and that was made for a 1.84 TF GPU and Jaguar cores. No, most of the bottleneck is in the areas of dev time, budget, manpower and engine features (or limitations).
Which is why the previous point doesn't excuse much else that's happened this gen.PS6 could be a 100 TF beast...good luck getting any meaningful use out of that if AAA games take 10 years to make with a team of 1,000 and budgets of $500+ million. Good luck getting more than a single game a gen from studios pushing the hardware. Good luck getting AAA games that aren't even more derivative and safe than many of the AAA we've seen this generation.
You can use your common sense. No, the portable won't be docked. It makes no sense from a logistics or marketing basis. If you want to play on a TV, buy the base PS6.Well that's the thing with this rumored PS handheld: is it going to be a handheld-only or will it be a hybrid? We don't know yet. If it's a hybrid, will it be with a dock or will the HDMI-Out features be built directly into the handheld? Will it have different power profiles and clock settings when "docked" versus undocked?
We can't answer any of those questions right now.
Anything that isn't the main console is a distraction. Simple as that.Now if you mean the PS Portal is a distraction from what could be iterative work on more immersive technologies like VR or MR? Well, there's maybe an argument to be made in that regard. Personally I'd rather see further iteration on PSVR than another Portal, but I'm also being a realist about it these days. PSVR2 bombed, although a lot of that was on SIE's watch with mistakes they made. PS Portal has been a success, costed a lot less in R&D and provides a through-line to a handheld device (sharing features of the Portal and PS5, and PS6) than the PSVR2 does.
We are agreed there, though I was always extremely anti-PC when it came to PS, never entertained the premises they were pushing. But I'll tell you this: When they're already developing for PSP2/Vita 2/PS6 Amateur, PS5, PS5 Pro AND PS6, it's going to be a lot harder to justify to the dumbasses and apathetic paper pushers they shouldn't also just throw PC into that stew. After all, it's not like the masterful Nixxes even feel the need to actually optimize for PC now, despite having the lowest rate of projects they've probably ever. Just slap it in there.Oh, 100% agreed on that. You know I've been very critical of the PC strategy. A while ago I still entertained the idea they could maybe do non-GAAS AAA ports 3-4 years later, or remakes 1-2 years later, or AA games 1-2 years later or Day 1 depending on the game. Well, not anymore. The cadence and expectations SIE have set with PC ports this gen is quite severe: they've not just trained those PS4 & PS5 users, but PC users as well, to eventually expect those games on other platforms. Like what reason is there to not expect a Ghosts of Yotei port to Steam a year from the PS5 launch, if not even sooner?
Sorry, but I wouldn't call any of those all around hits. You need critical/consumer reception and financial success at scale for that, and none of those titles cover it. The closest to somewhere like both is Astro Bot, but it's not actually sold at high scale. GT7 is the top in dollar gross, but 5th in unit sales as far as the US is concerned, and we know GT is more popular internationally. I don't know how to extrapolate sales globally, but I am not optimistic that the US represents as small a percentage as postulated by this article.Well if we're gonna touch on SIE's 1P output this gen and be really honest about it, then yes, even ignoring the GAAS stuff, even with the non-GAAS we can argue there have been drops vs. last gen.
OTOH, they've had genuine all-around hits this gen too, with games like Returnal, Astro Bot and GT7. But in their cases, you either have games which took a very novel, high-tier approach to mashing up otherwise disparate genre types (Returnal), represented some return to the "just fun" AA of older PlayStation (Astro Bot), or were a strong return-to-form entry that also clearly took command as market leader in its genre segment (GT7). Honestly, I think the other SIE studios need to take lessons from Housemarque, Team Asobi and Polyphony in that regard, at least the Western ones who put out big AAA non-GAAS this gen so far. I hope that either with some big 1P (from internal studio) AAA release left this gen, or at PS6's launch, we get a Sony AAA 3P story-driven epic that actually feels like a huge iteration on that genre type in terms of the storytelling and gameplay systems involved.
Nobody's legacy is completely tied up in one thing, but that's where PS has thrived. Simple as. PS2 wouldn't be what it was without the single player AAA flood that that machine benefitted from, often exclusively; and as soon as Sony developed a first party outfit, the general wheat was separate from the chaff pretty quickly. Nobody played Puppeteer, they did play Uncharted. Nobody cared about Medal of Honor or Resistance, they did care about God of War III. Socom and Syphon Filter were never sales hits, plenty of AAA luxurious single player titles going back to the PS1 outdid the likes of Ape Escape.Okay but here's the thing: PS's legacy isn't completely tied up in being a "premium" product. In fact I would argue both Nintendo (to some extent) and Valve (to a major extent) have leeched off segments and demographics which once proliferated on PlayStation during the PS1-PS3 generations. I'd go even further, and argue that SIE's focus on the "premium" mature story-heavy games, came at the cost of cultivating segments which have since become more strongly associated with Nintendo and Steam (and with MP-centric stuff, to 3P franchises, some of which have since become platforms of their own to an extent like Fortnite).
IMO PlayStation was at its best when the 1P side struck a balance in variety between mature/story-heavy cinematic "premium" games, MP-centric stuff (SOCOM, MAG, Warhawk etc.), and AA games with somewhat younger appeal and arcady sensibilities (Parappa, Ape Escape, EchoChrome, LBP etc.). They hit that balance within the PS3 generation but financial issues caused them to cut back and focus on what they wanted to grow the most with PS4.
And so, we've now gotten to where things are today.
Let's wait for Duskbloods to come out first.Except that's not entirely the case. It's pretty clear to me that Nintendo getting Duskbloods as a Switch 2 exclusive is a flex of sorts against PlayStation, and I don't blame them for that. It also shows me, especially in light of Nightreign's strong reception, that SIE's leadership deciding on what GAAS to pursue should be put into serious question. That leadership made a move for Foamstars and Concord over Duskbloods? Yeah, that's a problem.
Frankly, I don't think most Japanese games have been doing Sony many favors for a while now.Maybe in terms of Western 3P, there isn't as much for SIE to worry about in "losing" priority to Nintendo; it's still a bit of a longshot if GTA6 gets a Switch 2 port, for example. But for Asian support? No, SIE's going to have a lot of competition with Nintendo going forward on that front and with Japanese support in particular, I'm expecting Nintendo to get a decent amount of exclusives (timed or full), and/or exclusive content in their versions of multiplats you won't find on PlayStation or other versions.
And TBH, I'm looking forward to it. After all, it just helps generate more competition, at least in theory, and it means more for gamers.
We just don't know the MHW sales splits. But I'm not surprised that Rebirth, XVI and DD2 underperformed. They all underperformed on PC too. They're all very flawed projects from an appeal standpoint. Creatively speaking, Dragon's Dogma 2 was more like a Remaster than a sequel. FF7 has been overexposed and is coming up to being 30 years old. Time to move on. XVI's low rent character action game combat, MMO-tier design, and poor man's GoT with Anime Friendship thrown in just wasn't where it was at, and I identified that (to much argument) before it came out.These are fair points and probably are also contributing to PC's growth in regions like Japan this gen. Not too much I feel really needs to be added, outside of course the PS5 price increases further eroding away at what little appeal remains.
Like, the hardware situation might be looking grim now but the software situation is very much dire. FF VII Rebirth, DD2 and MH Wilds were the three best chances to create sustained, long-term strong software sales for PS5 and in all three cases, they underperformed. I suspect total Japanese sales for say MH Wilds are very high, but that's with Steam picking up a lot of the slack in lower PS5 numbers.
All true about handhelds but this could spread to other form factors, inluding back around to a arm device that looks like a mini pc specialized for gaming. Like mammals returning to the ocean and evolving to be shaped like fish.
Well remember, back when Microsoft wanted to push Windows 95, they realised that the overlap between tech enthusiasts and PC Gamers was large, and adoption of one group generally followed the other. Games, it turned out, was a bit of a gateway drug. To improve adoption of their OS, they made a push to have better support for games - and we saw a few ports of big titles, like DOOM 95. And it worked. What Valve has done with Proton and SteamOS is give Linux what it's lacked: support for games. And if I worked at Microsoft, I'd see it for what it is: their own strategy and thus a long-term threat to Windows.Steamos itself won't threaten windows, but when arm translation comes, using it you'd barely be playing your pc games on a pc anymore. Valve will have completely broken broken out. There would be only open competition for those devices, and they could end up being expected to run steamos.
A purpose-built Linux distro with resources behind it can evolve fast and steam's viral economy would be pretty fucking hard for ms to follow. It's everything they suck at.
Any device created by someone who is not a platform holder is going to be sold at a premium.
Any device running a non hardware specific OS is going to have overhead which impacts performance.
Any device that doesn't generate significant money from software is going to be underpowered and/or overpriced.
Any device that doesn't have console like TAM is going to be underpowered and/or overpriced.
Decreasing hardware sales, past the console's peak period, say otherwise.There's just zero incentive for Sony to release a PS6 in 2027, none.
I must be misunderstanding because it sounds like you're describing any open computing platform.
Decreasing hardware sales, past the console's peak period, say otherwise.
That's exactly right.
The formula that allows consoles to sell the way they do is pretty specific. PC has a lot of advantages over console especially holistically, but people often ignore the drawbacks. Similar drawbacks are why iPhone is more popular in the US than Android.
You're not going to be able to mass market an individual SKU as I've described that has any real market pentration ability compared to a console.
There is a reason the Steam Deck has sold like 3-4 million units compared to the Switch at 150 million units.
Even if Microsoft had put out a handheld with the exact same specs as the Steam Deck, it would have outperformed the Steam Deck and it would have cost less than the Steam Deck.
There is a reason why other handhelds are more expensive than the Steam Deck. Can you point to one that is better in performance and cheaper?
Why is that? Because Valve makes money from Steam every other manufacturer has to make more money from their hardware sales. Hardware manufacturers simply cannot sell their hardware at a loss because there are no software sales to make up for it.
This is fundamental misunderstanding of a product life cycle.
What year did the Switch peak in sales?
The goal of a product lifecycle isn't simply to replace a product after peak, but when those sales are no longer viable and it makes more sense from a perspective of margins to introduce new hardware, but that hardware has its own R&D and likely a higher price tag. You still have people playing PS4 and X1 to sell to, there is sizeable TAM to sell to rather than rush out a new console.
Given the general quality of your posts, I'm stunned that this response came from you.
Your response can only make sense if I stated that the console must be replaced immediately after its peak period, yet that's not what I said; the console already had its peak period two FYs ago, which would be followed by four consecutive FYs of decreasing hardware sales, and that's exactly the moment you should launch your next product to not see the risk of losing your sales momentum.This is fundamental misunderstanding of a product life cycle.
What year did the Switch peak in sales?
The goal of a product lifecycle isn't simply to replace a product after peak, but when those sales are no longer viable and it makes more sense from a perspective of margins to introduce new hardware, but that hardware has its own R&D and likely a higher price tag. You still have people playing PS4 and X1 to sell to, there is sizeable TAM to sell to rather than rush out a new console.
Given the general quality of your posts, I'm stunned that this response came from you.
There's not much data to support that, really. For one, both God of War Ragnarok and Spider-Man 2 had better opening sales and legs all around, is there much ground to suggest any drops here and there outside of Horizon Forbidden West, which we know was heavily impacted by PS Plus?Well if we're gonna touch on SIE's 1P output this gen and be really honest about it, then yes, even ignoring the GAAS stuff, even with the non-GAAS we can argue there have been drops vs. last gen. GOWR didn't resonate with most people as much as 2018 did, and that's down to creative decisions of the game (including overly incessant handholding for puzzles).
Spiderman 2 was not as well-received by people as the original or Miles Morales, again heavily down to creative decisions and also what some may perceive as lack of innovation or iteration on the original's gameplay loop. HFW wasn't as well-received as HZD, yet again, mainly down to creative choices tho ironically some also though the game was too challenging (odd IMO since people seem to love Soulsborne games for their challenge :/). That's not to say these games haven't done well commercially or are bad, just that they came off perhaps as "too safe" sequels with some creative choices in story areas that various fans of the earlier iterations didn't like.
24-30% sounds about right for GT7's share in the US. It's 5th in Japan as well, above 5/6/Sport/PSP and behind 1/2/3/4. Gran Turismo Sport, in comparison, only managed to be above 6 and PSP, while it became the second best-selling game in the series worldwide, only being slightly behind Gran Turismo 3. I could see where that data is coming from, to be honest.Sorry, but I wouldn't call any of those all around hits. You need critical/consumer reception and financial success at scale for that, and none of those titles cover it. The closest to somewhere like both is Astro Bot, but it's not actually sold at high scale. GT7 is the top in dollar gross, but 5th in unit sales as far as the US is concerned, and we know GT is more popular internationally. I don't know how to extrapolate sales globally, but I am not optimistic that the US represents as small a percentage as postulated by this article.
And in terms of consumer response, it's been very mixed.![]()
Gran Turismo 7 is the Series’ Highest-Grossing Title in the USA
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet: Gran Turismo 7 is the Series’ Highest-Grossing Title in the USA According to recent information shared by video game industry analyst Mat Piscatella, Gran Turismo 7 is now the highest-grossing title in the entire series in the US market...www.gtplanet.net
Returnal is a big success as far as critical reception goes, but nobody played it.
Yeah, I think you have a completely different perception compared to how people generally viewed SCE's first-party efforts in the PS3 generation:completely tied up in being a "premium" product. In fact I would argue both Nintendo (to some extent) and Valve (to a major extent) have leeched off segments and demographics which once proliferated on PlayStation during the PS1-PS3 generations. I'd go even further, and argue that SIE's focus on the "premium" mature story-heavy games, came at the cost of cultivating segments which have since become more strongly associated with Nintendo and Steam (and with MP-centric stuff, to 3P franchises, some of which have since become platforms of their own to an extent like Fortnite).
IMO PlayStation was at its best when the 1P side struck a balance in variety between mature/story-heavy cinematic "premium" games, MP-centric stuff (SOCOM, MAG, Warhawk etc.), and AA games with somewhat younger appeal and arcady sensibilities (Parappa, Ape Escape, EchoChrome, LBP etc.). They hit that balance within the PS3 generation but financial issues caused them to cut back and focus on what they wanted to grow the most with PS4.
And so, we've now gotten to where things are today.
When it comes to videogames, the Sony I remember from my childhood is a very different Sony than what I see today. When the company released its Super Smash Bros. equivalent last year under the lazy title "PlayStation All-Stars: Battle Royale," actually playing the game became a weird exercise in nostalgia. With the exception of Littlebigplanet's Sackboy, all the contemporary characters Sony chose to associate with its brand were hulking brutes—Kratos from God of War, Nathan Drake from Uncharted (a handsome brute, but a brute nonetheless), Sweet Tooth, the psychotic John Wayne Gacy-esque clown serial killer from Twisted Metal.
It was the older, outplaced ones that made me feel like Sony had lost something profound over the PlayStation 3 generation.
As video games have matured as a medium, so too have they matured in terms of "adult" content. While Nintendo still puts out new Mario and Zelda titles, the rest of the "family-friendly" gaming turned towards Facebook or mobile. Xbox and PlayStation, meanwhile, have become almost entirely the domain of first and occasionally third-person shooters.For PlayStation fans who remember superb, kid-centric titles like "Jak and Daxter," "Crash Bandicoot," and "MediEvil," before somber and violent games like "God of War" and "Grand Theft Auto" represented Sony's consoles, this is a sad truism. But with "Puppeteer," an excellent new game from Sony's in-house Japanese studio, the company proves that it can still produce vibrant family-friendly content that's distinct from its rival, Nintendo.
Inspired by the ornate tradition of Japanese Puppet Theater known as Bunraku, "Puppeteer" is adorable and breathtaking. The story follows a tiny puppet named Kutaro as he embarks on a quest along with a flying Princess named Pikarina to retrieve his head from the Moon Bear King. In the process, you collect a magical pair of scissors that serve as Kutaro's main weapon to defeat bad guys and navigate through levels, along with an assortment of replacement heads. Some of these extra noggins give you special powers such as the ability to lob bombs or deflect enemy projectiles, but most ust look funny and occasionally unlock secret levels.
Keep in mind: this is a game about puppets, so things are meant to be silly. Indeed, it's the carefree spirit of "Puppeteer" that makes this one of the most whimsical and enjoyable games that Sony has released since 2008's "Littlebigplanet" — the company's last great foray into kids games that sadly didn't do much to start a trend despite achieving universal acclaim.
To be honest, there won't be another competitor. Not a real one. Sony is sitting on an 80 million userbase with nobody else doing anything to stop them and will likely end the generation above 100 million, maybe 120.
Nobody can come in late and threat them for real. It's not realistic.
Valve/Steam could slowly work their way in, maybe over a decade and take some marketshares. But going by a few posts here SteamOS have an uphill battle, because of Linux and anti-cheat issues, which I didn't know about. No Fortnite, no COD, no FIFA/Madden, no Minecraft. That will limit their reach.
So for better or worse they're stuck working with Microsoft, and we all know how well they're doing things.
Living room Windows PCs could become more popular though. But PC gaming is currently too expensive to be a serious alternative for regular mainstream console gamers. So what's the alternative? Nothing. It's PS5, then PS6, and PS7, etc…
Yeah I just learned about those games not working days ago. For me it tanked the whole strategy. My initial thought was that SteamOS would steamroll the whole industry. Eventually. Only negative thing I learned while using my Steam Deck as a living room PC is that doing modding is not as easy as on Windows, the OS itself is super stable.NGL considering the hubris (seemingly) at SIE these days, that is kind of a grim outlook. I never expected these consolized PC devices to suddenly matching PS or Nintendo market share saturation in the next 3 or so years, or even Xbox market share (of the XBO generation anyhow), and have felt that their share in the market will be gradual over a 10-year period, after which the growth could likely accelerate at a faster pace. At the same time, it is a bit hard to even gauge where the demand is right now because the top device in that space, Steam Deck, hasn't been marketed anywhere to the degree of a traditional game console, and hasn't had retail presence the way a traditional console has had, either. So we at least need to wait for that to crystalize before getting a better idea of where demand is vs. what supply can provide.
Admittedly I don't know a lot about the anti-cheat situation on Linux (I'm guessing it can be easily bypassed?), but I've heard things related to HDMI output licensing issues with the platform, which affects GPUs in that area. Hopefully that is resolved in the future. And I do agree that not having access to Fortnite (at least in theory; don't know how easy it is to get EGS set up on a Steam Deck), FIFA/Madden (similar situation to EGS, I guess), COD (guess due to Battle.NET) and Minecraft (assuming there's no native Linux version, and maybe dueto needing a Microsoft account? But the former can be solved with emulation through Proton and the latter shouldn't be OS-dependent so is it something else like maybe with anti-cheat?) would limit things. But, again, the expectation for these consolized PC devices should've never been seeing them reach PS numbers 3-5 years from now, because that was never realistic. If that market is lucky and one of the big players (Valve or Microsoft, tho my money's on Valve) gets it right, it can maybe collectively grow to an install base size that Xbox Series has done so far this gen (~ 28 - 30 million), over the next 4-6 years. However that'll depend on Steam Deck devices getting regular retail presence, MS's spin on the concept actually launching well, and maybe the initial reintroduction of Steam Machine devices.
Personally I'm feeling that as time goes on there'll be a growing niche for purpose-specific gaming devices targeting specific segments, and probably appealing to retro gaming sensibilities. Not devices that'll compete with the market share of PlayStation or Nintendo, or something like Steam for that matter, but can coexist with them in a smaller niche and justify multiplatform releases all the same. The appeal of those devices would be in utilizing modern technologies to purposely constrain themselves to realistically mimic performance of older systems, but still be friendly with current tools, and targeting creation of new games to run on them that just happen to also have versions on the big mainstream systems too (either Day 1 or after some delay period).
We're talking systems that'd have to get creative in how they're designed, though, and understand the technological constraints of actual older systems, while using modern tech to try replicating compromises, do certain things better, certain other things worst, focus on physical media & packaging (doesn't have to be exclusively physical though) etc. I'd like to see such devices in the market if only to appeal to a segment that's been steadily growing over the years, and offer some character & excitement in what is otherwise becoming an increasingly safe, bloated and overly corporate/sterile mass-market mainstream gaming landscape :S
There is so much competition in this market and none of it has to run Windows.
MS realized they needed to fix Windows to be as adaptable as a real gaming OS before they could compete in a world with real handhelds now that we know how Windows holds gaming back.
All these years I always thought that the reason games crashed on Windows and ran like shit was the 'nonuniform hardware' of PCs, but turned out it was because Windows is terrible for gaming and there hasn't ever really been a perfect OS option on PC that could compete even with the Switch OS. When you have to be everything for everybody you cannot be the best at any one thing. Windows needs to be reimagined for gaming at this point. What have they been doing all these years that they are just now realizing this? The left hand obviously isn't aware of the right hand's activities in this big companies and bloating up windows for more ads and bullshit has been the only goal for the OS for years and years. Now we have UE stutter on our Windows games and MS are investigating ARM to make something happen. Way too little way too late is their motto.
They played themselves.
Yeah, 500 dollars lowest. Honestly wouldn't be surprised to see a matching 600 either.
Well they've got a real problem is they don't have a machine that is capable of doing things the Pro can't do by the end of the decade. But your given specs would still blow the PS5 out of the water and the portable would be less powerful than that.
Zero chance. None. These devs are not going to have mastered the ML techniques necessary for this, even if the handheld was sufficiently powerful for it. You said to someone else that you think the CPU in the PS6 and Portable will be the same? Flat 0% chance of that happening. I don't think it would be physically possible, and it definitely wouldn't be financially. Either they're charging more than the actual PS6 for it which means it's DOA, or they're legitimately losing 100+ dollars per unit, which makes it impossible for greenlighting.
It's a mixture. One (and just one) of the reasons why we've plateaued in visual fidelity this gen is because most studios have switched from baked assets to real time rendering. That is obviously going to be more demanding, and significantly enough to cut into visual advancement.
Which is why the previous point doesn't excuse much else that's happened this gen.
Not having to make LODs is supposedly a big productivity gain for artists, even if it's a greater challenge for programmers (of which we have in greater number with better tools than ever before, so it shouldn't be that much harder, but still). And in exchange for real time rendering and less clear visual bumps, we've also gotten stagnated gameplay (which RTR is supposed to help get past), less polish from the studios that used to do it best to a super-fine degree, longer dev times and worse packages on a holistic level. It's a joke.
It was always going to be awkward for this gen on top of everything else, but next gen was/could be the chance for a cleaner slate. The portable ruins that chance totally.
You can use your common sense. No, the portable won't be docked. It makes no sense from a logistics or marketing basis. If you want to play on a TV, buy the base PS6.
Anything that isn't the main console is a distraction. Simple as that.
PSVR2 should've never happened. PSVR failed. The meager VR fad was grounded before the sequel's release.
As for the Portal, it's successful as a peripheral. Ie, an add on to the PS5. It hasn't expanded the market - again, they're behind the fucking PS4. Now they want to recreate the Series S problem by making it its own independent SKU. It's nuts. If it does anything, it will just eat into PS6 console sales. I say it will be a net negative overall.
We are agreed there, though I was always extremely anti-PC when it came to PS, never entertained the premises they were pushing. But I'll tell you this: When they're already developing for PSP2/Vita 2/PS6 Amateur, PS5, PS5 Pro AND PS6, it's going to be a lot harder to justify to the dumbasses and apathetic paper pushers they shouldn't also just throw PC into that stew. After all, it's not like the masterful Nixxes even feel the need to actually optimize for PC now, despite having the lowest rate of projects they've probably ever. Just slap it in there.
Sorry, but I wouldn't call any of those all around hits. You need critical/consumer reception and financial success at scale for that, and none of those titles cover it. The closest to somewhere like both is Astro Bot, but it's not actually sold at high scale. GT7 is the top in dollar gross, but 5th in unit sales as far as the US is concerned, and we know GT is more popular internationally. I don't know how to extrapolate sales globally, but I am not optimistic that the US represents as small a percentage as postulated by this article.
![]()
Gran Turismo 7 is the Series’ Highest-Grossing Title in the USA
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet: Gran Turismo 7 is the Series’ Highest-Grossing Title in the USA According to recent information shared by video game industry analyst Mat Piscatella, Gran Turismo 7 is now the highest-grossing title in the entire series in the US market...www.gtplanet.net
And in terms of consumer response, it's been very mixed.
Returnal is a big success as far as critical reception goes, but nobody played it.
Nobody's legacy is completely tied up in one thing, but that's where PS has thrived. Simple as. PS2 wouldn't be what it was without the single player AAA flood that that machine benefitted from, often exclusively; and as soon as Sony developed a first party outfit, the general wheat was separate from the chaff pretty quickly. Nobody played Puppeteer, they did play Uncharted. Nobody cared about Medal of Honor or Resistance, they did care about God of War III. Socom and Syphon Filter were never sales hits, plenty of AAA luxurious single player titles going back to the PS1 outdid the likes of Ape Escape.
The conditions that even allow for that universality in coverage are not here anymore and they aren't coming back. You're never going to out-generalize PC, especially not when you're porting your small number of first party titles to the damned platform.
Sony is a platform holder, by nature they already get to cut in on Fortnite, COD, sports games, etc. They should be happy with that and understand that they need to specialize in a particular area if they hope to survive. The Colin Moriarty "you can/must have it all" ideal is a pipe dream. Let's use some critical thought here: Sony is bragging about record revenues and "record profits" right now. How is that the case if they've cancelled more projects at a perhaps a higher level/rate and definitely more expensive and botched studio purchases than any other point in first party history? Because the third parties are doing the job third parties are supposed to do. If they hadn't embarked on this terrible initiative alongside others and tripled down on tailoring their pipeline towards the stuff that made the PS4 and PS2 all-time successful and saved the PS3, they would have more enthusiasm/momentum, more consoles sold and more games out now and/or on the way on the schedule. All this has done is cut into their profit margins, which are still significantly lower than those of the PS4.
They did this because there were a bunch of dunces like Hermen Hulst who wanted to use the idea of "just doing Fortnite" as a a way of enticing the board and climbing the corporate ladder. They got too greedy and arrogant (yeah, I'm saying it), and became short sighted.
Let's wait for Duskbloods to come out first.
I don't see that as some kind of flex, but in any case, Nightreign's "reception" thus far has been high sales from PeeSea pirates and low ratings from the same audience. I think From is a couple games away from blowing their glaze cache, but I definitely don't think Duskbloods has been helped by Nightreign. In the long run, the only thing worse than a shit game nobody plays is a shit game everyone plays.
Frankly, I don't think most Japanese games have been doing Sony many favors for a while now.
Barring the complete disaster that was Japanese development in the 7th and 8th gens, do people really want to use their PS5s to play Disgaea? I think not.
If they stop giving ground to PC, PlayStation has the total claim (and even still an advantage now, since very few Japanese games have really overtaken PS on PC) to selling the Japanese equivalent of what sells best on PS consoles. The FF15s, KH3s, Personas, etc. Which there are fewer of in general. Can't do much about that.
We just don't know the MHW sales splits. But I'm not surprised that Rebirth, XVI and DD2 underperformed. They all underperformed on PC too. They're all very flawed projects from an appeal standpoint. Creatively speaking, Dragon's Dogma 2 was more like a Remaster than a sequel. FF7 has been overexposed and is coming up to being 30 years old. Time to move on. XVI's low rent character action game combat, MMO-tier design, and poor man's GoT with Anime Friendship thrown in just wasn't where it was at, and I identified that (to much argument) before it came out.