I think that was in the Bomb Mission, basically you have to survive it.
Also Thin Man are assholes.
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XCOM: Enemy Unknown |OT| Neo GAF is Under Alien Control
- Thread starter Jintor
- Start date
I think that was in the Bomb Mission, basically you have to survive it.
Also Thin Man are assholes.
the cover discussion is really strange. You can be in the open in either game. The results will be the same: dead soldiers. The new game simply highlights the cover. I fail to see the controversy.
Also: unpredictability and dice rolls are the opposite of strategic depth. They may create tension but they do not make xcom a better strategy game.
That means: if the new xcom looses a few dice rolls there is no depth lost. I'd even argue it makes xcom a deeper (and more strategic) game.
Also: unpredictability and dice rolls are the opposite of strategic depth. They may create tension but they do not make xcom a better strategy game.
That means: if the new xcom looses a few dice rolls there is no depth lost. I'd even argue it makes xcom a deeper (and more strategic) game.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yes, Slender Man is an ass hat.
No remake is ever 1:1.
Expecting it to be is foolish.
It's like the backers of Wasteland 2 and Project Eternity that expect those games to look exactly like a game from the mid-90s.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
dp
Well, if I was up against an unknown alien force, and several of my squadmates had been brutally murdered, I would definately define open spaces as 'invalid tactical spaces'
I only have a few hours experience from the original game, but I found myself in 'cover' most of the time there as well. Standing out in the open and clicking 'end turn' was terrifying.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I feel that if this game was more like the original, it wouldn't have been green-lit. Because it never would sell. So if you want an exact remake of Xcom, Kickstarter is the only viable option. A publisher wouldn't dare touch it.
Fake edit: And the 3 Moves Ahead-episode was great, but man, that Bruce guy. He has trouble forming coherent sentences, and he seems genuinely bored. Can't wait to hear Rob talk more about the game on GWJ (hopefully).
The only real difference is that things are closer together in this game. In the original, there was lots more open space.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
One important distinction is that in the original game, open terrain can be slightly improved by crouching, so that you have some sort of defensive option even when not in cover.
Shooting range also has a lot to do with the differences. In the new game, the units who have a firing pattern similar to the original would be snipers with squadsight, since they can just sit in the back and fire from anywhere.
Shooting range also has a lot to do with the differences. In the new game, the units who have a firing pattern similar to the original would be snipers with squadsight, since they can just sit in the back and fire from anywhere.
Can't you "Hunker Down" in the open in the new game? Sure, it's still not as good as doing it behind high cover, but it does grant immunity to critical hits.
Also, I can pretty much only think of one situation where being in the open was a good thing in the original. When facing enemy Blaster Bombs. Get away from the walls and kneel. And hope the aliens miss. With a guided handheld mini-nuke launcher. Although, if you're in that situation, things might be looking bad for that soldier in any case. Just not THAT bad.
I've read this thread and have the oddest question
It is fun?
Do you like SRPGs or turn-based strategy? If so, you'll probably think it's fun.
Yup thats what im saying dude, im happy to have a sci fi Turn Based Strategy game on my PS3 so im cool :3
Then again im not an XCom player/fan so dunno.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
You can use hunker down out in the open?
Most of the time in the original XCOM, I'd be in the open in order to move guys out of the way so that they don't get shot by the troops behind them. This isn't really a problem in the new game since most units don't have such long range firing capabilities.
whalleywhat
Member
I think the thing with the cover is that it's so foregrounded that it seems you're basically roadie running from point to point, and people have a hard time reconciling that with their memories of X-Com.
I think randomness can be a fantastic strategic element when you're basically told what your chances are. Like in a Fire Emblem game where every move you make can be completely informed and you can even plan for contingencies in case the RNG is unkind.
Try reading something he's written. I find Bruce Geryk quite adept at forming coherent sentences. And I didn't get the sense that he was bored at all.sahest said:
Also totally incorrect
I understood kind of what the 3MA guys were on about but the fact that some positions are more valuable than others doesn't inherently discredit all other locations
Dakota47
Member
I've read this thread and have the oddest question
It is fun?
Judging by the demo and all the gameplay videos I'd say yes. I've never played the original game, and while I do play a lot of Civ and Total War, I've never really been into tactical turn-based games. The only one I enjoyed was Frozen Synapse last year.
bitoriginal
Member
Excellent OT.
Frozen Synapse is to my mind the most player-focused tactics game ever created
no dice rolls at all except another human's mind
The cast really suffers from being a skype-cast, they're always waiting for each other's sentences to resolve neatly since they're not in the same room.
whalleywhat
Member
True. It's that odd thing where one person seems to have no reaction to what the other person just said, but then says, "I totally agree with you."
I'm not against randomness or dice rolls in general. In fact i agree that a certain amount of unpredictability is part of the xcom charm.
However i get annoyed by some of the arguments posted in the thread where people talk about "lack of depth" or "dumbing down" concerning mechanics that had neither strategic value nor depth in the original and could arguably be called *gasp* bad game design. At least in the context of a strategy game.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Of course crouching in a field isn't tactically viable in this. That is because it isn't tactically viable anywhere. The changes I've seen *mostly* change the tactical combat in a good way.
Standing the middle of a field or shooting through a wall is gone because it doesn't need to be there anymore. You want to get across this courtyard? You can dash and pray you don't get shot at. You want to get into that building? Here is a window that you can now jump through. If you want to open it up for fire you have to make a tactical decision and you explosives on it, as you should. You can't shoot a wall twice with a rifle and blow it open.
Standing the middle of a field or shooting through a wall is gone because it doesn't need to be there anymore. You want to get across this courtyard? You can dash and pray you don't get shot at. You want to get into that building? Here is a window that you can now jump through. If you want to open it up for fire you have to make a tactical decision and you explosives on it, as you should. You can't shoot a wall twice with a rifle and blow it open.
Woo-Fu
Banned
That is the same reason every vehicle in xcom:eu blows up shortly after being shot, just like vehicles do in real life, right?
Please, don't try to use realism as a defense when the realism in question is highly selective.
There are plenty of places where crouching in an open field is tactically viable with the right camo.
You could even make arguments about what visual systems evolved on the alien homeworld(s) and find that they have very little color/pattern recognition and key almost entirely off of movement.The reason it isn't tactically viable in this game is because the game mechanics give a significant bonuses to hit(and crit I believe) for any target not in cover, and that is the only reason.
I'm not arguing for or against the cover system. As long as I enjoy the game I don't care what systems they've added/removed.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
It's strange.
Xenonauts is basically XCOM 1 with a reskin, but for some reason, it is easier to navigate.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Who said anything about realism? Crouching in the field is the last place I want to be in a shooter or XCOM or any other game, really. Of course if you take into consideration camo or alien vision it is different, but those systems aren't in this game or the old one so they are irrelevant.
speculawyer
Member
It's nice to see a good topic on a good looking game going straight to shit.
ALWAYS avoid the OT for the first two weeks(so the game's been out for a week by the time you check it.)
Personally, I don't check it until I'm done.
Woo-Fu
Banned
A cover system wasn't in the old game either.
You're missing my point, though. The only reason it isn't tactically viable IS THE COVER SYSTEM. Not because of anything else.
Without the cover system it would be as tactically viable as crouching anywhere else that didn't block line of sight. Percentage to hit is percentage to hit. You don't need to make up excuses for a perfectly valid design decision.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
There was still cover in the old games though. It was just a hassle to pop out/up, take the shot, then move back or crouch again. Being behind something gave the aliens a chance to hit the obstacle instead of you. That is why I took cover in the older ones, because I want my guys to live. That is why it wasn't as tactically viable. The new game has just worked into the game what players had to manually in the original.
cover was in the old game though and it was just as important as in this one.
I really liked what I played of the original (got my ass handed to me even on normal) but after the Demo and even using the add-on to change difficulty and enemies, i was still able to go through the tougher enemies with relative ease.
The battles seem more bite-sized as well, but I'm still optimistic.
I'm curious about the pre-order stuff though. Am I able to get it cheap through GMG and get preorder stuff? Should I drop the money for it on Steam or wait for a sale?
Sad that I went to 100% sold on this to becoming on-the-fence.
The battles seem more bite-sized as well, but I'm still optimistic.
I'm curious about the pre-order stuff though. Am I able to get it cheap through GMG and get preorder stuff? Should I drop the money for it on Steam or wait for a sale?
Sad that I went to 100% sold on this to becoming on-the-fence.
Neuromancer
Member
I'm not sure what being behind cover ordinarily does, stats wise, but on the 3 Moves Ahead podcast the game designer says the 'hunker down' ability cuts your vision in half. So there's a trade off if you're doing that.
Boogalogist
Member
I preordered this a month ago. I still remember the old days of X-Com. stuff 14 guys into the Skyranger and send the rookies out as dispensable scouts. Just lovely! I don't even need to pay them salary at the end of the month!
What's the max unit you can bring along in this one?
What's the max unit you can bring along in this one?
Neuromancer
Member
I think it's around 6.
Boogalogist
Member
T_T
I hope when the game launches, there's some mod out there that gives me the option to change the max unit count!
Unknown Soldier
Member
If the demo is anything to go by, this game runs great even on machines with pretty modest specs. I was playing the demo on my laptop at the native 1920x1080 resolution with all the settings maxed except Ambient Occlusion and it was running amazingly well.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my free copy of Civilization V, though. I'll be too busy playing XCOM to play Civ5.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do with my free copy of Civilization V, though. I'll be too busy playing XCOM to play Civ5.
spindoctor
Member
Is there any way to disable the cutscenes/cinematics that play 6 times a minute? This is totally my kind of game and I'm a fan of Firaxis but I found this extremely annoying, to the point where I wanted to quit the demo before it was over. Please tell me the game can be played without that nonsense happening every turn.
IblisGinjo
Member
Yeah it's in the options.
BabeSlayer
Member
You do realize that you were playing a tutorial with built in cut scenes to familiarize you with the game right?
Not saying your gribe isn't legitimate just saying I'm not sure that was indicative of what you can expect from the rest of the game.
Phoenix
Member
What I think will happen is that people will find the new game more accessible and easier to play through. Some veteran players will not like that and look for more of the "I've got 5MP, if I turn I can't reload" sort of action, and while I did enjoy that - whether or not that is in the best interest of the game/genre going forward is highly suspect.
I'm fairly certain this has contributed to the smaller squad size count as well - though that's unfortunate.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Chairman Yang is probably right for the most part. Once mod tools are released, some mod will eventually be developed that adds back in more aspects from the original, for those people who prefer it.
The Idle Thumbs stream got me to take a look at the original X-Com for the first time. I must say it is completely awesome and pretty much everything I like to see in a pc game. The learning curve always kept me back, but it's actually somewhat easy to wrap the brain around. Looking forward to trying this out as well. Looks respectful to the original.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
http://www.idlethumbs.net/3ma/episodes/we-will-be-watching-commander
Not spoilery, they only mention info that has already been released for promotion.
Incendiary
Banned
Can't decide if I'm getting this for the 360 or the PC. Seems like it'll play better on consoles, but my friends are most likely getting it for PC. Knowing their schedules, though, I doubt they'll be playing it that often and my PC wasn't running the animations the best even at Low settings. Tough to choose.
I think he was talking about the original X-Com stream they had:
http://www.twitch.tv/idlethumbs
It's actually also the reason I'm going to be playing the new one and have been following the thread.
Who's saying they want a one for one exact remake out of this new XCom? I know it's easier to talk down to a strawman but it is hardly fair.
What part of mostly healthy discussion is turning a thread to shit? Do differing opinions and arguments frighten you for some reason?
Anyway, at first I wasn't too charmed by the one base only design decision. But considering you now have start bonuses and can launch satellites to increase your cover that presents some interesting strategic choices. I also like the idea that you can be prompted to supply a country with weapons and stuff. I assume this nets money and or reduction in panic level?