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XCOM: Enemy Unknown |OT| Neo GAF is Under Alien Control
- Thread starter Jintor
- Start date
Terms like "streamlining" and "accessibility" are almost always just euphemisms for dumbing down, but XCOM: EU could end up as evidence of a game that actually streamlines and refines properly - condenses things and makes it generally more welcoming without treating the player like a drooling idiot.
Open spaces aren't "valid tactical spaces" in the older xcom either.
I don't see what is the problem here. The only reason you would end up in the open in the older games was because
1) it's the only way to move to the next cover
2) you ran out of TU's for whatever reason
The only thing I can see people complaining about is that the demo gives the impression that the map sizes are dramatically reduced compared to the original, so you are always within 1 move away from cover. Whether that increases or decreases the strategic element is up for debate.
Although I wonder if the old TU progression system has been translated into the new level up system. Would be a shame if you are limited in the variation of actions you can take on your turn.
I don't see what is the problem here. The only reason you would end up in the open in the older games was because
1) it's the only way to move to the next cover
2) you ran out of TU's for whatever reason
The only thing I can see people complaining about is that the demo gives the impression that the map sizes are dramatically reduced compared to the original, so you are always within 1 move away from cover. Whether that increases or decreases the strategic element is up for debate.
Although I wonder if the old TU progression system has been translated into the new level up system. Would be a shame if you are limited in the variation of actions you can take on your turn.
I think the reason this game feels like it has more focus on cover than the old game is because there is no TU system for movement. And it's not necessarily that you used to end your turn out in the open in the old game but you often ended your movement out in the open, usually to have a look around or take a shot and then continue your movement getting into cover.
Now you basically have to end your movement in cover. You can shoot from behind cover and around corners, which is not a bad thing of course, but your choices are limited in the new game. You either move far into cover, move into cover then shoot, move to cover and then move to the next bit of cover, or shoot from cover and not move. Not being able to move after a shot in the last case seems like a poor design decision to me. However, there's the run and gun and hopefully more perks like that.
In the old XCom you could move, potentially find an alien, shoot at it and then move into cover. The new XCom makes you think a lot more about where you move your guys because you can easily mess up a move and not have a way out, which makes things interesting in a way. On the other hand your movement choices feel less dynamic.
Now you basically have to end your movement in cover. You can shoot from behind cover and around corners, which is not a bad thing of course, but your choices are limited in the new game. You either move far into cover, move into cover then shoot, move to cover and then move to the next bit of cover, or shoot from cover and not move. Not being able to move after a shot in the last case seems like a poor design decision to me. However, there's the run and gun and hopefully more perks like that.
In the old XCom you could move, potentially find an alien, shoot at it and then move into cover. The new XCom makes you think a lot more about where you move your guys because you can easily mess up a move and not have a way out, which makes things interesting in a way. On the other hand your movement choices feel less dynamic.
Unknown Soldier
Member
This XCOM is lot like Valkyria Chronicles in the sense that you move and then shoot, in that order. Once you've taken your shot, your little redshirt's turn ends. The Overwatch thing is similar to VC as well, except that you have to end your turn in Overwatch for it to work. In VC, if you move within view of an enemy guy, he'll shoot at you continuously until you are out of his line of sight and vice versa.
That is probably a good way to destroy the balance of the game.
Boogalogist
Member
Balance? Throw MOAR aliens at me as well! Come git some!
They cut from 9 down to 4 - HP, aim, defence and will. Defence obviously changes moment to moment with cover though, the rest is moddable with equipment. And it all gets upped with rank-ups.
(defence should more properly be called dodge imo)
Ah awesome thanks.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Starship Troopers mod. I wonder how many units and aliens you can place on a map before you make the game crash trying to load it.
Defence doesn't reduce incoming damage once hit?
I'm pretty sure each difficulty throws more aliens at you than the previous difficulty amongst other things.
But yeah I'm looking forward to what modders will come up with too. To me it's a bit of an Elder Scrolls: Oblivion situation. The game generally seems fine but personally some things feel a little off.
I don't think so, but I'm not entirely sure. Maybe it reduces the potential dice pool for damage rolls?
does armor influence the defence stat or just the damage you take?
Or maybe it works as you say and reduces hit chance like in dungeons and dragons. Where your defence rating directly affects the chance for enemies to score a hit on you and vice versa. So it wouldn't surprise me if armor doesn't reduce damage directly.
Edit: ah yeah in that scenario it would make sense if armor mostly boosted HP.
Another "comparison" question. Watched through the idle thumbs x-com playthrough and something crossed my mind that I haven't seen in any clips of x-com EU :
Can you pick up items that your dead soldiers drop? Or even yet, can you pick up the unconscious bodies of your allies? Considering there is no skyranger I'm not sure what the latter scenario would lead to... but still.
Can you pick up items that your dead soldiers drop? Or even yet, can you pick up the unconscious bodies of your allies? Considering there is no skyranger I'm not sure what the latter scenario would lead to... but still.
Castor Krieg
Banned
In the old X-Com - yes. In the new one - no. Maybe you can salvage the equipment at the end of the mission, but it doesn't look like it.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
We don't call it "going back to the Skyranger". We call it Strategic Bravery.
Pretty much my view on the way they've been doing the turn-based mechanics in the remake (VC is one of my favourite games this generation). It's probably why I'm more receptive of it, despite the big differences to the original game's system. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with the "move to cover + action" way of doing things, it's just different, 'tis all...
...I will miss shooting through walls and stuff with my laser/plasma weapons to take shortcuts...
Effin' Chrysallids... :<
I hear ya.
I need more media, I've exhausted all of the clips in the OP, I'm not looking for new footage per se as much as I just want to see/hear people talk about x-com.
Woo-Fu
Banned
You're advancing in reverse, never retreat!
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
We're not retreating. We're simply not surrendering. I don't see how you call being unwilling to compromise to the enemy a failure.
LabouredSubterfuge
Member
I personally believe that 'not dying' represents a moral and tactical victory of the highest order.
There is a skill for shooting first not ending your turn.
Jake and Garth are tireless, holy shit. Well, I never get tired of listening to them so that works for me.
Hari Seldon
Member
What did they about why they removed free aim?
MrCompletely
Member
OXM has a 6 video series on YouTube that's fantastic, I'm at work and can't link it but you should be able to find it through search.
Paraphrasing:
It would be technically difficult for them. Because of how their destructable objects are set up? He says their destructable tiles are much larger and not single tile like the original which didn't really make sense to me.
He also says that since they're such a cover based game what ended up happening was that you'd shoot at cover a lot and it would just feel odd to "miss" cover. Like seeing "miss" above an aliens head when your dice rolls are bad. Implementing a UI for it was posing challenges as well.
They had it in and it felt overpowered if you could just punch giants holes in walls and stuff.
Basically it would be technically difficult to balance it and make it look right graphic wise and UI wise I think is what he meant.
Awesome
!Aye I've seen those, they're quite hilarious.
On another note, has anyone seen or read confirmations of being able to blow holes in roofs/floors?
whalleywhat
Member
This has been my impression.
I think things are being destroyed in clumps depending on the firepower of what hits them. That's what I think I've observed on the field.
spindoctor
Member
I don't wish to drag this out as the issue is already settled, but if a demo isn't indicative of what to expect from the game, then what is? I understand it was the tutorials which were overloaded with cutscenes, but even after that, there was at least one per turn I played which is just ridiculous.
If no-one has answered your question in about 40 minutes I will fire up the demo and lob a grenade into a building to see what happens.
Are you talking about the scene you see when you encounter an alien and they're all staring into the camera with their googly eyes and then scurry away? Yeah, I can see that getting annoying fast. I see that happening in gameplay videos all the time too so it's not just because of the demo and tutorial.
Neuromancer
Member
Haha
If no-one has answered your question in about 40 minutes I will fire up the demo and lob a grenade into a building to see what happens.
Thanks I would've done it myself but 6gb takes way too long for me to download.
If no-one has answered your question in about 40 minutes I will fire up the demo and lob a grenade into a building to see what happens.
Are you talking about the scene you see when you encounter an alien and they're all staring into the camera with their googly eyes and then scurry away? Yeah, I can see that getting annoying fast. I see that happening in gameplay videos all the time too so it's not just because of the demo and tutorial.
you can turn those of
I'm definitely going to. The cinematics are neat for awhile but I see them getting old fast.
I thought the same but apparently most of the guys I've heard on podcasts and interviews and such ( people who have been playing the preview build ) were initially skeptical towards the camera but ended up enjoying it more than they thought.
Maybe it's akin to the Fallout 3 killcam, I never grew tired of that.
I thew a regular grenade onto the roof of the first building you see. The inside of the building was damaged but the roof stayed intact. It's kind of disappointing if floor/ceiling tiles are indestructable!
Aww poop.
My dreams of ambushing people through the ceilings... crushed. Hopefully mods will fix this.
I believe a video in the OP of this thread answers the question. It was a live stream demo of them game and at the very end they do a Q&A where one of the questions asked was essentially "How destructable are buildings?". I remember the dev answering that buildings are descructable down to their frames. I'm at work at the moment so I'm only going by memory and can't verify any of this.