Karsticles
Member
Ditto. I didn't find classic hard at all except for all the countries that abandoned me.
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XCOM: Enemy Within |OT| Your Soldiers Never Asked For This
- Thread starter Jintor
- Start date
Fears confirmed. Oh well I guess I will give normal a shot on my first playthrough.
If you're hellbent on not losing a single country, yeah. But that's far from required to beat the game on those difficulties.
When EXALT was first announced I was hoping that they'd have some sort of tech level that advanced as you sold stuff on the Gray Market. Their whole backstory is supposed to be that they're some sort of transhumanist group with super-wealthy financiers, so it'd be perfect if their backers were the ones shelling out for your spare corpses and xenotechnology, and then turning around and using them against you.
I've basically wondered what happened to the stuff you sell in XCOM games forever. I've always just assumed that the corpses mostly got eaten by wealthy aesthetes wracked with ennui and the weapons and equipment were bought up by countries to reverse-engineer and then never help you out, ever. EXALT could've done something neat with that mechanic.
Ah well.
Fragamemnon
Member
I've done two I/I playthroughs (and another w/ some 2nd wave), and what I built out was very different in terms of panic management between the two. The first (much harder) was a NA start with a heavy satellite focus, the second (much easier) was a Asian start that was OK with losing a few countries to get a fast foundry out.
You want a screwball strategic layer? Try Marathon+Diminishing Returns. It's nuts-but more than winnable.
Well, that Classic Ironman run went from going great to spectacular failure quickly. Misfired a rocket at a Mechtoid, hitting half my squad and revealing a Cyberdisc behind the wall. Lost most of my highranking guys. Next abduction mission failed without useful people. Then when I went to spend my last $120 on hiring more guys it accepted my money but no soldiers were added to the queue. :| gg go next.
Ouch! I feel your pain: I've restarted dozens of times thanks to bad luck. Most of m were due to panic skyrocketing though, all thanks to Impossible pretty much guaranteeing you'll have 2 new countries in the red after a successful abduction mission
The game REALLY wants you to lose.However, I've finally beat my I/I run with the doom counter on 7 for months (which gives a rather uneasy feeling). I also didn't get Newfoundland which might've been a blessing really. EW definitely amps up the difficulty in early and mid stages, with some harrowing encounters vs Exalt (they're really tough on I/I and you often pull multiple packs) and ofc Sectopods. Towards the end I realized how cool I had become when encountering them, not because of a lack of threat, but simply because it felt every mission had at least 2 (which always wanted to activate at the same time). My SS sniper usually soloed them, only to have the rest have a go for finishing blows.
Also, I highly recommend using Training Roulette. It's always a surprise what you get and the payoffs can be massive (Low Profile, Close Combat assault with memetic skin is my fav).
mr teaspoon
Member
I could use some help/advice. I've been playing XCom since Enemy Unknown came out, and I'm at this terrible grey area where normal is too easy and classic is kicking my ass.
Any tips? What tech do you guys recommend investing in first? etc
Any tips? What tech do you guys recommend investing in first? etc
Play on classic but avoid ironman so you can reload your saves.
Abandon the habit of getting into prolonged firefights. In higher difficulties, you'll lose the moment the enemy starts to fire back. You have to kill enemies almost immediately - so practice flanking quickly without moving wide enough to alert other groups of aliens. Plan out your approaches around flexibility and high cover. Most of all, never hinge an attack on just one guy's 70% chance of hitting. Take the shot, sure, but always have a grenade or guaranteed shot lined up behind it to be safe.
For EW, start Meld research first, then go for lasers. A good MEC (I'd advice flamethrower) will really help you bridge the gap between ballistics and lasers. And they're the perfect counter to Thin Men (abuse flamethrower and collateral damage). Once you get lasers, you'll be able to oneshot aliens, which reduces the chance they get to fire (and kill) significantly.
And in case you weren't doing this yet: consider explosives a tool for destroying cover and not do much as a means to kill. Also, get your squad size upgrades asap. They're by far the best thing you can buy.
Last, but not least: satellites. Make a habit of buying them at the start of each month and aim to build an uplink every month. You also want to be smart with picking abductions: if you're focussing on a certain continent bonus, ignore those countries. Since you wanted to put sats there anyways, it doesn't matter that they turn red. Obviously you only do this if you have the sats to make it work
And in case you weren't doing this yet: consider explosives a tool for destroying cover and not do much as a means to kill. Also, get your squad size upgrades asap. They're by far the best thing you can buy.
Last, but not least: satellites. Make a habit of buying them at the start of each month and aim to build an uplink every month. You also want to be smart with picking abductions: if you're focussing on a certain continent bonus, ignore those countries. Since you wanted to put sats there anyways, it doesn't matter that they turn red. Obviously you only do this if you have the sats to make it work
CecilRousso
Member
Am I missing something, or is the
one of the most unbalanced things I ever played? I am playing on Normal Ironman, and the difficulty spike for that mission shot throw the roof. Not sure that I will be able to continue that save. Is there any specific tactic to employ here?
base invasion
What you can encounter there seems almost completely random
I got hammered. Even if I did have all of my equipment and my go-to roster, I would've seen losses.
Karsticles
Member
Huh. I thought it was really easy. No one even got hurt. What does your team look like?
CecilRousso
Member
I'm getting beyond hammered. After the first wave they throw three cyberdiscs, a couple of drones and a couple of floaters from one side, with a sectoid command, 4-5 mutons and muton berzerks and a couple of mectoids from the others. Then they finish of that by adding generating 4 mectoids, some crysalis, some sectoids and a sectopod in the last wave.
Fragamemnon
Member
It can be very, very challenging if you do it too early (and don't have tech) or if you don't know when it triggers and how it selects which of your soldiers will be deployed onto the mission.
Rules of the base defense:
- always occurs 14-21 days after alien base assault
- will throw enemies at you which scale to the month you are currently in, but generally will include a significant number of dangerous mechanical units-mechtoids and cyberdisks , and sectopods if you push off the alien base capture very late.
- The first six available soldiers on your barracks list will be used in the mission. Make sure they stay equipped until the base defense is complete.
- SHIVs will not be deployed.
So , tips:
- Extra healing is clutch on this event due to the sheer number of enemies.Make sure you have a medikit.
- Tactical Rigging gives the base security rookies two grenades instead of one.
- Once the rookies are out of grenades, they make for great bait .
- If you have heavies, consider giving them a SCOPE before this mission. There are so many enemies that standard fire and not rockets will be a deciding factor late in the mission.
- Highly promoted MECs with railguns or the plasma tech equivalent are very useful here.
CecilRousso
Member
Well, since I'm playing Ironman and wasn't prepared for this, I'm pretty fucked. Feels a bit bitter, since what they are throwing at me now is out of proportion. I could take loosing missions from time to time, and loosing soldiers, and loose the game overall after several mistakes, but this mission is either succeed or gameover.
I like a challenge, and will retry the game, but they did not handle this very good.
Imperfected
Member
I actually write off South America by default (it's mostly useless, anyway), but even then you pretty much end up locked in to rushing satellites and having to snare an Outsider on your 2nd downed UFO if you don't want to have a complete clusterfuck on your hands in Impossible.
The enemies will come to you if you stay at the command center, despite the fact that they went to all the trouble of making the rest of the base for them to run through, giving the impression you should be going out to fight them. There's a natural choke with tons of cover and overlapping fields of fire near the top of the stairs leading into the command center that's very easy to turn into a killing jar for the aliens, who will happily mosey on up one or two at a time due to differences in their movement speed and other factors (like the Sectoids opting to mind-meld rather than moving along with everything else).
It's not exactly the height of tactical excitement, but it's pretty heavily implied that's what they thought you were going to do, anyway. (The achievement for it is 'You Shall Not Pass'.) If you're having trouble beyond that...
1. Holo-Targeting is awesome if you can keep your Base Defense Rookies alive through the initial waves to help in the final stand. The rookies may not be much, but an uncovered Mechtoid getting hammered by four assault rifles still dies pretty quick.
2. The Sectoid Commanders like to stay out of the fight and either buff Mechtoids or attempt mind controls. If you've got a breather, you can trace their tethers back and have some grenadiers (probably your rookies) bombard them in cover; it's not hard to figure out where they're hiding with the tethers.
3. If you've got multiple MECs, Kinetic Strike may be more useful for this mission than Flamethrower due to the sheer length and the fact that most of the truly threatening enemies are mechanical. Chryssalids are kind of a joke when you can put this many guns on them, and Mutons are just sniper snacks.
4. If you can arrange your soldiers to manage it, you might be better off not bringing an Assault. (You can put them on 'injured reserve' temporarily by throwing them into the Gene Lab for modification.) They're pretty useful during the initial clearing of the command center, but kind of a liability during the defensive stand afterwards due to the battle strongly favoring stationary play. If you need to bring one, consider giving them a rifle before the invasion rather than a shotgun.
5. Remove any Arc Throwers and replace them with Medkits, Chitin Armor, Scopes, etc. This really isn't the time to be filling up the zoo, and even if you were planning on having a close-quarters brawl where you could use it, it only has two shots. Not in any way ideal for the situation.
6. Consider removing Grenades and replacing them with the same. Unless the soldier in question has Grenadier, they just aren't going to be worth much in a battle this long where so little of it is fought against enemies in good cover. The rookies will still give you a few to play with, your "real" soldiers should be concentrating more on surviving the battle of attrition.
7. Lead By Example from the Officer Training School can help an enormous amount.
Fragamemnon
Member
I agree with this. It's the second largest blemish on the expansion pack, right behind how dreadfully dull and boring EXALT is. You should have been given a loadout screen and let you pick your soliders just like any other mission.
This expansion is really a kind of mixed bag-the core systems changes, additional 2nd wave options, new items, and MELD are great, but some added content feels very non-Firaxis in its implementation-very rough and poorly integrated.
Don't get me wrong-I love the game. But I'd trade the base defense and the entire covert operations part of the expansion for a map editor and item/unit/perk creation tools.
I'm okay with not getting to pick my loadouts. That was a great curve ball.
I'm not okay with having 4 cyberdisks drop right on top of me in one turn.
Fragamemnon
Member
Usually they stagger out a bit for me on that mission, even if they reveal all at once. They usually snipe a rookie and then die provided that I can burst one down a turn. The thing is that they deal tremendous amounts of damage and will generally one shot anything not in tier 3 or higher armor.
The problem with the way soldiers are chosen is that SHIVs can't be used, soldiers returning from active duty can come back naked if you aren't super careful, and some of your higher ranked soldiers may be intentionally sidelined for a variety of reasons. I 'desk' my colonels as soon as I possibly can to reduce the odds of catastrophic failure in the event of a mission gone horribly bad. The best only come out again for battleship takedowns and the Overseer UFO.
Just the random stuff is nice though. The game can become stale quickly but they've done a lot to ensure that it changes up a little more.
CecilRousso
Member
Managed to clear it now. I had to draw everyone to the room at the back where the cyberdiscs came, and camp there. Then it was manageable, but I'm going to tweet the Firaxis people I have a twitter and ask if that was their intention with it.
The only real blemish on the tactical layer right now in my opinion is the overt reliance on trigger spawns, the number of corridor based sweep and destroy missions (reduced somewhat with exalt), and patrol teleporting still activating with revealed but untriggered enemies. All my other problems are with the strategy layer.
Finally finished. First time I've carried all of the countries, although I did get lucky and one snuck in through a council report fully lit(what are the rules for that, some deadline before the end of the month where any countries that panic after don't drop out?).
I thought my average shot percentage was damn good at 72 and change, but worldwide was even higher! Must be that I finished almost 3 months earlier than most, so early game shenanigans represents a larger chunk of that pie in my case.
Here's something that really lends itself well with the expansion: push for aim bonuses. Tactical rigging means SCOPEs for just about everyone. My heavies were getting the same percentages as supports used to and one of those heavies was Zhang. He has a starting aim of a colonel, so make sure to hang on to him. Then, there's the aim bonus medal based on the number of different continents the squad's soldiers are comprised of, that meant a +10 aim for the MEC and sniper both. Having 100% shots out of a MEC that are in no way point blank is crazy. Heavies with support like aim, assault with alloy cannon still being viable in a lot of encounters, supports averaging 80%+, sniper never dipping below 90%... it's devastating.
I thought my average shot percentage was damn good at 72 and change, but worldwide was even higher! Must be that I finished almost 3 months earlier than most, so early game shenanigans represents a larger chunk of that pie in my case.
Here's something that really lends itself well with the expansion: push for aim bonuses. Tactical rigging means SCOPEs for just about everyone. My heavies were getting the same percentages as supports used to and one of those heavies was Zhang. He has a starting aim of a colonel, so make sure to hang on to him. Then, there's the aim bonus medal based on the number of different continents the squad's soldiers are comprised of, that meant a +10 aim for the MEC and sniper both. Having 100% shots out of a MEC that are in no way point blank is crazy. Heavies with support like aim, assault with alloy cannon still being viable in a lot of encounters, supports averaging 80%+, sniper never dipping below 90%... it's devastating.
Finally having a great classic/ironman run through. I've learned a lot over my past play thoughts, right now I have a full squad of sniper/sniper/heavy/assault/assault at the highest ranking and am just plowing through missions. Some recommendations
-Early on, the best defense is a good offense. Rush laser rifles at any cost. Lasers will take out thin men in one shot almost every time. Its much better having a weapon that can kill quickly than having solid armor in the early game.
-Blow aliens up, blow everything up. Don't worry about losing resources because you shot a rocket at a set of aliens or blasted them away with grenades. Its always best to take a for sure kill and losing the alien weapon and materials rather than missing a shot, having the alien kill you the next turn and then losing your squadmate and the mission. I almost always have soldiers equipped with 1 grenade (especially after getting the upgrade from the foundry to hold two items).
-Avoid partial cover at almost all costs in early game (even in late game really). The cover bonus from full cover compared to partial cover is quite large and should not be ignored. Unless forced, I keep all units in full cover at all times.
-Avoid building MEC units, they are simply too expensive to build, research and maintain. I would recommend a few simple bio upgrades for units (first, the psi and panic resistance, its cheap and very effective, especially late game. You will find enemies almost always fail mind control with this simple upgrade. Second, is the twin heart upgrade, it makes a huge difference having 5 turns for a soldier to bleed out and to have a soldier never die when his HP hits 0. Even if you cannot med kit the soldier, odds are that you will finish a mission within 5 turns from your first KO).
-After building up one sniper to mid-level, add a second sniper to the group. Snipers are too critical to risk losing on a mission...if you end up losing your top sniper and have to level another one, it can put your whole squad at pretty great risk. Always select squad sight as the second upgrade, it is absolutely essential imo.
-Don't rush, don't feel like you have to fulfill the high priority items the second they appear. By waiting a few weeks, you will allow yourself a bit of time to become much more prepared.
Lastly, get lucky sometimes. Even if you do everything right, you still need a bit of luck on your side. Also, if a mission is falling down the toilet, don't be afraid to abandon. I had two missions where I lost 3 of my best soldiers and I had to run back to the plane and abandon the mission. Its better losing half of your best squad than the entire squad.
I played through with all available DLC. I will say, the last mission of the Slingshot DLC is pretty hard for the stage of the game you get it at. The rewards are fairly immense, I barely survived the mission (2 soldiers of 5 left alive, even those two barely made it). The rewards are well worth it though, I would be significantly worse off if I had failed the mission.
Great game though, I hope they have more DLC down the road.
-Early on, the best defense is a good offense. Rush laser rifles at any cost. Lasers will take out thin men in one shot almost every time. Its much better having a weapon that can kill quickly than having solid armor in the early game.
-Blow aliens up, blow everything up. Don't worry about losing resources because you shot a rocket at a set of aliens or blasted them away with grenades. Its always best to take a for sure kill and losing the alien weapon and materials rather than missing a shot, having the alien kill you the next turn and then losing your squadmate and the mission. I almost always have soldiers equipped with 1 grenade (especially after getting the upgrade from the foundry to hold two items).
-Avoid partial cover at almost all costs in early game (even in late game really). The cover bonus from full cover compared to partial cover is quite large and should not be ignored. Unless forced, I keep all units in full cover at all times.
-Avoid building MEC units, they are simply too expensive to build, research and maintain. I would recommend a few simple bio upgrades for units (first, the psi and panic resistance, its cheap and very effective, especially late game. You will find enemies almost always fail mind control with this simple upgrade. Second, is the twin heart upgrade, it makes a huge difference having 5 turns for a soldier to bleed out and to have a soldier never die when his HP hits 0. Even if you cannot med kit the soldier, odds are that you will finish a mission within 5 turns from your first KO).
-After building up one sniper to mid-level, add a second sniper to the group. Snipers are too critical to risk losing on a mission...if you end up losing your top sniper and have to level another one, it can put your whole squad at pretty great risk. Always select squad sight as the second upgrade, it is absolutely essential imo.
-Don't rush, don't feel like you have to fulfill the high priority items the second they appear. By waiting a few weeks, you will allow yourself a bit of time to become much more prepared.
Lastly, get lucky sometimes. Even if you do everything right, you still need a bit of luck on your side. Also, if a mission is falling down the toilet, don't be afraid to abandon. I had two missions where I lost 3 of my best soldiers and I had to run back to the plane and abandon the mission. Its better losing half of your best squad than the entire squad.
I played through with all available DLC. I will say, the last mission of the Slingshot DLC is pretty hard for the stage of the game you get it at. The rewards are fairly immense, I barely survived the mission (2 soldiers of 5 left alive, even those two barely made it). The rewards are well worth it though, I would be significantly worse off if I had failed the mission.
Great game though, I hope they have more DLC down the road.
My heavy was the 1%. Two misfired rockets over two turns on a chryssalid terror mission. RIP Hans Hansen, you cross-eyed son of a bitch.
If there's one thing I'd like to see overhauled for a second expansion it's the whole satellite thing. I don't enjoy rushing uplinks and watching for 20 days remaining to build multiple satellites in parallel. It'd be interesting I think if you had fewer satellites, but could retask them where needed, and maybe customize them with stuff like self-defense or thermal vision for when doing a mission in a covered area. The interceptions are pretty dull too.
If there's one thing I'd like to see overhauled for a second expansion it's the whole satellite thing. I don't enjoy rushing uplinks and watching for 20 days remaining to build multiple satellites in parallel. It'd be interesting I think if you had fewer satellites, but could retask them where needed, and maybe customize them with stuff like self-defense or thermal vision for when doing a mission in a covered area. The interceptions are pretty dull too.
Boss Riovane
Member
Quick question:
Watched a stream a few minutes ago and
was a
In my playthrough , it was heavy? Is it random?
What class was Annette Durand in your playthrough?
Annette
support.
ambientmystic
Member
I think it's random.
She was a Sniper in my playthrough, which I thought made sense considering her PSI ability. Her 3 other friends were also spread around the classes.
Ok, well, just hear me out
A MEC has the following base cost
20$ and 20 Meld for the unit change
25$ and 45 Meld for the first mech itself
29$ and 60 Meld for second iteration
110$ and 100 Meld for third iteration
One starts the game with 100 Meld.
Positives of a MEC
Good defense
Good base attack
Good AOE
Good cover destruction
MEC can be re-used if soldier dies
Negatives of a MEC
Unable to use any type of cover
Very low crit rate
I see how a MEC could help early game when you are desperate for AOE and something that can soak up damage. In my opinion, the lack of cover ability and high Meld cost make the MEC a bit too costly. 65 Meld for a level 1 MEC is kind of a lot IMO.
I prefer to go the bio route
Neural Dampening
$35 and 20 Meld
Grants a soldier +20 Will when defending against a psionic attack, and becomes panic immune. If the soldier is successfully Mind Controlled, the control is cancelled and the soldier is rendered unconscious for one turn.
Your soldiers are rarely mind controlled and immune to panic.
Unlocked by Berserker autopsy
Secondary Heart
75$ and 15 Meld
Causes a soldier to be critically wounded, and therefore have the potential to survive, instead of dying when suffering lethal damage. Extends bleed out by 2 turns and the soldier won't lose Will from critical wounds.
Your soldiers never die after their HP reaches zero. Bleed out time is extended by 2 turns for a total of 5 turns.
Unlocked by Cyberdisk autopsy
Both are late early to early mid game upgrades.
Let me give you a few examples
Was on a mission, my support class took two critical hits. Instead of dying, he was knocked unconscious. I was able to win the mission in the next 4 rounds, saving his life. He was the second to highest tier ranking and would have been lost without the upgrade.
During base defense, I had several units that had mind control attempted on them. All attempts failed. This rendered the enemies attack useless while I cleaned house. The situation went from a potential disaster to an easy coup.
I think MECs have their time and place. It may be worth it to get a single MEC in early game to help while you are working your way up to laser weapons. Getting to late early/mid game, I think its much more useful to spend your money and time making general units more effective and resilient and not to spend a ton of money on one or two MEC units. Survivability of high level officers is paramount IMO.
Did somebody had problems with the grappling hook? (skeleton suit, ghost armor)
It happened to me a lot of times, I use the hook in a close roof and the soldier just jump to the middle of the scenario, sometimes clipping through the floor. Really annoying (but sometimes left me in even better positions).
It happened to me a lot of times, I use the hook in a close roof and the soldier just jump to the middle of the scenario, sometimes clipping through the floor. Really annoying (but sometimes left me in even better positions).
Fragamemnon
Member
How do you start the game with 100 meld. I start with zero. Do you get free Meld on easier difficulties? Also cutting up a soldier is 10 cash/10 meld on impossible and the MEC itself is 25 cash/40 meld. You only need to get a canister + meld recombination to afford a MEC.
Yes, they do have it, and that is "as soon as I can possibly get one" and 2x in every squad near the end of the game.
Collateral damage blowing up cars and cover and their inherent tankiness saves lives in the second month when the aliens are at their peak lethality. They scale tremendously well into the later game as well-especially if you go kinetic fist (much better than flamethrower) and eventually put a backup leveled Sniper in one of the suits perked for damage and a heavy in the other suit perked for tankiness. MECs put out way more damage per round that any other class and have exceptional utility and survivability in the later game.
The available set of genetic mods do not do enough in month two and three to matter. Those are the months where things can go off the rails in a run. Genetic mods come up to near even in utility with MECs around the summer months, but at that point OTS upgrades (specifically the size upgrades, New Guy and Wet Work) and proper soldier rotations make the overall squad pool much more robust. The only thing that fast genetics buys you in the early months is a fast memetic skin scout in the months where the aliens aren't your playthings.
Yes, they do have it, and that is "as soon as I can possibly get one" and 2x in every squad near the end of the game.
Collateral damage blowing up cars and cover and their inherent tankiness saves lives in the second month when the aliens are at their peak lethality. They scale tremendously well into the later game as well-especially if you go kinetic fist (much better than flamethrower) and eventually put a backup leveled Sniper in one of the suits perked for damage and a heavy in the other suit perked for tankiness. MECs put out way more damage per round that any other class and have exceptional utility and survivability in the later game.
The available set of genetic mods do not do enough in month two and three to matter. Those are the months where things can go off the rails in a run. Genetic mods come up to near even in utility with MECs around the summer months, but at that point OTS upgrades (specifically the size upgrades, New Guy and Wet Work) and proper soldier rotations make the overall squad pool much more robust. The only thing that fast genetics buys you in the early months is a fast memetic skin scout in the months where the aliens aren't your playthings.
Maybe I am mistaken on the starting Meld? I have been playing classic/ironman difficulty. You're right about the 10/10 cost for initial soldier as well, I had that wrong.
I can see your arguments about the second month, that is definitely the time when you are at your weakest point when combatting aliens and their HP and greater lethality. I think my biggest misconception about MECs is that I thought you lost the MEC once the soldier died. I had no idea that the MEC was actually still available to be used by another soldier in a worse case scenario.
I guess there are just different ways to play the game. I'll give you method a try, as it stands now though, I'd rather have a full squad of the highest ranked soldiers and abilities with immunity to panic, mind control, will loss, death and a 5 turn bleed out, two item slots per character with one than a few really good MECs. Besides, I can just take a SHIV on a mission, put it out front and have it soak up damage in most risky situations while my soldiers pile on the damage. Having a heavy with 2x rockets, 1x shredder, and 4 alien grenades provides a lot of demolition capability. Besides, with the 2x item upgrade, I can afford to have a grenade assigned to every unit if I need to take out some enemy cover.
I just don't see how you protect them when they have no cover though. Simply have a good support to heal them up and use them as the primary damage source? I can see how they are very useful early on when their HP is very high compared to your squad. Later on, it seems that the survivability of your squad compared to the HP of the MECs and the damage aliens are capable of changes quite a bit.
How can you afford more than one MEC as well? It seems like the total cost of a high level MEC is 200 or so Meld.
On ironman, its just too risky to put all my eggs in one basket. I'd rather have a well rounded squad with a SHIV tanking and receiving damage. Sorry, my post is all over the place....
Fragamemnon
Member
SHIVs are excellent and work great at tanking damage, the problem is that the base SHIV without upgrades has low accuracy and has a huge problem of aggroing additional packs in order to get a good shot during early month usage. These problems are fixed with alloy SHIVs and the laser upgrade, but that's really a month 3 timeframe accomplishment at the earliest on Impossible research times.
You get a chunk of Meld for doing the alien base and another chunk from the mechtoids during the base defense. Once you get carapace/laser and mech movement upgrades you get access to more meld in usual missions.
I generally have my 2nd tier 2 MEC up in month 3 or four.
I can't stress how much month 2 and early month 3 matters compared to the rest of the game in terms of difficultly on Impossible. Nothing is as tanky while still providing damage and utility as an early MEC is. Their grenade launcher is hilariously OP in the midgame and converted backup snipers do more late game damage in a MEC suit than they do flying around in archangel armor due to the specific perks the MEC class gets while still having like 25 health.
Don't get me wrong-I don't ignore gene upgrades entirely, but on Impossible they provide durability, utility, and damage all in one very early package that requires very little investment. Too good to pass up.
You get a chunk of Meld for doing the alien base and another chunk from the mechtoids during the base defense. Once you get carapace/laser and mech movement upgrades you get access to more meld in usual missions.
I generally have my 2nd tier 2 MEC up in month 3 or four.
I can't stress how much month 2 and early month 3 matters compared to the rest of the game in terms of difficultly on Impossible. Nothing is as tanky while still providing damage and utility as an early MEC is. Their grenade launcher is hilariously OP in the midgame and converted backup snipers do more late game damage in a MEC suit than they do flying around in archangel armor due to the specific perks the MEC class gets while still having like 25 health.
Don't get me wrong-I don't ignore gene upgrades entirely, but on Impossible they provide durability, utility, and damage all in one very early package that requires very little investment. Too good to pass up.
I definitely agree. On I/I, a MEC is easily the best upgrade for the first months and stays useful late game (in fact, if their starting aim is high, they're super powerful). Especially with the HP buffs on Impossible, a MEC with flamethrower will win you those lethal encounters against Thin Men (6HP). I can't begin to tell you how much it helps to have an extra failsafe to compensate for those crappy balistic shots (why does it always miss or do measily 2dmg when you're close to an important kill?).
They're also a great tool for Muton encounters: if you can't kill m the same turn, bring the torch and watch them waste a turn. Sometimes they'll still shoot next turn, but chances are very low. I also prefer heavies for MECs, since I often specifically use them to draw enemy fire. A sniper MEC would require a different playstyle.
For some reason I'm not enjoying this as much as vanilla EU.
I think due to all of the added tactical options, I'm wishing that this game's strategic layer was something closer to the freedom offered by the original XCOM. I'm getting sick of having to fight high difficulty abduction missions for 4 engineers or 4 scientists when I really don't need them or feel that they're worth the risk. Just give me a damn money driven economy. The simulation aspect of this game is really undermined by the additions imo.
Plus with the addition of mechtoids, you don't have much of a choice but to use MEC's early game. I personally like the idea of gene mod soldiers a lot more, but without a MEC trooper there about 6-8 hours into the game it becomes impossible to deal with the dual mechtoids and cyberdiscs that they throw at you.
Hopefully some mods like http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/79 or http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/88 come out for EW that make the strategic layer a bit more of a live economy instead of this constant push and pull.
I think due to all of the added tactical options, I'm wishing that this game's strategic layer was something closer to the freedom offered by the original XCOM. I'm getting sick of having to fight high difficulty abduction missions for 4 engineers or 4 scientists when I really don't need them or feel that they're worth the risk. Just give me a damn money driven economy. The simulation aspect of this game is really undermined by the additions imo.
Plus with the addition of mechtoids, you don't have much of a choice but to use MEC's early game. I personally like the idea of gene mod soldiers a lot more, but without a MEC trooper there about 6-8 hours into the game it becomes impossible to deal with the dual mechtoids and cyberdiscs that they throw at you.
Hopefully some mods like http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/79 or http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/88 come out for EW that make the strategic layer a bit more of a live economy instead of this constant push and pull.
That makes a lot of sense, I guess I haven't done an impossible run yet, and it sounds like misery when that time does come. I don't know if I would ever try out an Impossible Ironman, sounds like a nightmare.
Get laser weapons. Without those, the mission is really stupidly hard.
The only reason I succeeded with crap weapon is that I had 2 supports with upgraded medkits.
Fragamemnon
Member
You play Impossible Ironman when everything else is too easy. It's like Deity Civ-completely unfair but you eventually get the point where it's the only way the game poses any challenge to you. Your skills at killing melded sectoids using roof abuse , rocket spam, and grenades will be put to the test.
Or you get the point where I'm at, where even that isn't all that hard, and you go full on 2nd wave + I/I, which is like Impossible+++ stupid rage machine hard.
AJLma - Long War will fix everything, but it's going to take some time to get an EW version out. I'll probably go back to playing the EU version of LW once johnnylump/Amineri get the mod working with the current patch. I/I Long War is actually damn fun and challenging without having a ridiculously frontloaded difficultly curve. It just takes weeks to finish a campaign.
It works pretty well, but I wouldn't do it before a tier 2 MEC and coverting a colonel sniper. It's an late midgame / endgame luxury. If you are doing 2nd wave and Not Created Equal, I will chop them up sniper much earlier if they get 95 aim or so and I already have a solid sniper on the team. The amount of damage they produce is unreal.
I was big on flamethrowers at first but feel that kinetic strike is actually a better tool overall because of the movement bonus and huge damage.
Outside of the base defense, these usually don't appear until month four. By then you should have laser weapons , disalbing shot, and either HEAT ammo or shredder rockets, which do a number on these enemies.
Or you get the point where I'm at, where even that isn't all that hard, and you go full on 2nd wave + I/I, which is like Impossible+++ stupid rage machine hard.
AJLma - Long War will fix everything, but it's going to take some time to get an EW version out. I'll probably go back to playing the EU version of LW once johnnylump/Amineri get the mod working with the current patch. I/I Long War is actually damn fun and challenging without having a ridiculously frontloaded difficultly curve. It just takes weeks to finish a campaign.
It works pretty well, but I wouldn't do it before a tier 2 MEC and coverting a colonel sniper. It's an late midgame / endgame luxury. If you are doing 2nd wave and Not Created Equal, I will chop them up sniper much earlier if they get 95 aim or so and I already have a solid sniper on the team. The amount of damage they produce is unreal.
I was big on flamethrowers at first but feel that kinetic strike is actually a better tool overall because of the movement bonus and huge damage.
Outside of the base defense, these usually don't appear until month four. By then you should have laser weapons , disalbing shot, and either HEAT ammo or shredder rockets, which do a number on these enemies.
Fragamemnon
Member
I like to covert an extra assault or (much preferably) a heavy to a MEC as soon as the cybernetics lab is done. To do so I will bench supports or even squaddie snipers to bring along rookies in the early game to get a spare assault/heavy.
The only class I would level outside of MEC and then convert at Colonel is a Sniper due to the way that very high aim works with their overwatch and bulletswarm perks.
So the deal with mind control is that mind control is not nearly as threatening as it used to be in UFO Defence because it's A) mid-late game and B) requires both LOS and is very easily disrupted. I'll allow that damping is probably the most useful gene mod out there (that isn't memetic skin) but the cost p/soldier and the time taken to unlock it makes it non-viable until mid-game.
Frankly that's my problem with all gene mods really, the cost p/mod is prohibitive and the actual usefulness of each mod is all situational - 'If mind control on map', 'if sniper needs good position', 'if soldier is killed'. Early game it's much more useful to invest in something that has guaranteed use every mission, every turn (especially with ammo upgrades) and can launch nades in every direction.
I will allow that MECs are more unexpectedly fragile than expected and are kind of pants with their main guns unless you're dis-arming colonels or something, but they're tanky enough most of the time to take a hit or two and if you utilize line of sight well they can still force opponents into untenable positions.
Also, MECs are surprisingly useful when trying to capture aliens.
The problem with that is, it's only useful of you're being shot. Incidentally, it's also the best way to get yourself killed in Impossible
I just find that I often get hammered if I give the enemy a turn to act. Thus, I've had far more success with an offensive strategy on Impossible. A support MEC, while good on paper, simply doesn't fit in when you simply want to kill them before they take a shot.
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