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Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition |OT| What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Apparently.

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum

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Damn im struggling against . Just wipes my party out usually when I got her to half health. Any tips, I did already like 10 times and my party is lvl70.
 
Are you talking about
Lorithia?

Yes! I dunno why my spoiler tag didnt work. Anyway I tried it all...maining Melia...having Riki in the party but the guy never heals the party, just a bullet sponge. And those Novas can deal damage from barely anything to me being dazed and in 3 seconds they swarm. I go after them first but still..most I survived was 2 waves, getting the boss to half energy.
 
Yes! I dunno why my spoiler tag didnt work. Anyway I tried it all...maining Melia...having Riki in the party but the guy never heals the party, just a bullet sponge. And those Novas can deal damage from barely anything to me being dazed and in 3 seconds they swarm. I go after them first but still..most I survived was 2 waves, getting the boss to half energy.
I don’t remember what my strategy was since I played the game last year, but I think I had Shulk and Sharla in my party. I also struggled a lot against this boss to the point I considered quitting the game. But then I grinded for 3-4 hours and managed to beat her. I think you’re underleveled, gaining a few levels can make quite the difference because if there is a big gap between your party’s level and the boss’s level, you suffer more damage and deal less damage (if memory serves right). So you should grind for a bit and try again.
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Still making my way through this game, taking my time and doing a lot of side quests and such. I'm at 30 hours in and still just absolutely giddy every time I get the opportunity to play the game. So much to do: main quests, side quests, grind affinity, heart-to-hearts, trading, etc. For the past 3-4 hours of play time I've just abandoned the main quest all together and started shoring up my side quests. My characters are at level 45ish and I'm starting to actually get the battle system streamlined thanks to art upgrades and skills.

Can't wait to play the Future Connected story, obviously saving it for last.
 
I got a little further and I just had another great boss fight with "Magestic Mordred," a level 70 walking fortress. He's just like Mishevious Naberius but way tougher.

The same team and strat I used then didn't work at first (Shulk/Reyn/Sharla) because despite only being 4 levels higher than me his titan stomp kills everyone except Reyn, even when I outfit Sharla and Shulk to have as much HP and defense as possible. But then I remembered I have Monado Armour now. I levelled it up a few times and it's a total game changer, basically halving the damage of purple and red arts from bosses. I didn't use Monado Purge to cancel his aura this time because having Monado Armour ready for stomps is more important.

Feels great to beat such a big tough monster. And I really appreciated the little exclamation marks that tell you that your attack will have a bonus effect and fill the party gauge in this fight. With such a big boss stomping around, it's hard to see exactly where you are position wise as it tries to squish you like a bug, lol. I've even seen the exclamation on Monado Purge when a boss has a Spike effect or an aura, it must be a lot more helpful to new players figuring out the battle system.
 
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Dark Oni

Member
loving the game it's great and also thinking about getting XC2 once i'm done for those who played both how does XC2 compare to XC1?
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
loving the game it's great and also thinking about getting XC2 once i'm done for those who played both how does XC2 compare to XC1?
I LOVE both but XC2 is much more "anime", for me its not negative point because I like anime but to some it can be turn off.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Xenoblade 2 is better in every way (XB1 still is fantastic), and don't listen to people that use anime as an adjective.
Is not that clear cut, there is big difference between XC1 and 2 that some people might prefer 1 over 2 or 2 over 1 or even they prefer X over 1&2.
 

Wunray

Member
loving the game it's great and also thinking about getting XC2 once i'm done for those who played both how does XC2 compare to XC1?
Imma be upfront with you your mileage may vary, popular opinion is that XBC1 has the better story , while xbc2 QOL and game play improvements make it the better game to play (minus the field skills imo but to each their own). I prefer xbc1 but I would be lying if I didn't say xbc2 is a bad game I even played it more than xbc1.


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Look at the chad shulk and goddess elma..........what did they do to rex's face? Looks like a shouta.....his in game artwork looks better. As a side note elma being front and center means it's her turn next? I hope so and I hope they bring back sawano for the soundtrack.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Imma be upfront with you your mileage may vary, popular opinion is that XBC1 has the better story , while xbc2 QOL and game play improvements make it the better game to play (minus the field skills imo but to each their own). I prefer xbc1 but I would be lying if I didn't say xbc2 is a bad game I even played it more than xbc1.



Look at the chad shulk and goddess elma..........what did they do to rex's face? Looks like a shouta.....his in game artwork looks better. As a side note elma being front and center means it's her turn next? I hope so and I hope they bring back sawano for the soundtrack.
CHOCO is the same artist who designed these blades.
latest

latest

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Herr Edgy

Member
loving the game it's great and also thinking about getting XC2 once i'm done for those who played both how does XC2 compare to XC1?
XC2 is a great game but I'd argue XC1 is the better package. The pacing is better (XC2 has some very ridiculous chapters, as in anime over the top waifu comedy parts or "whoops I saw you naked even though it was your fault, now I'm getting slapped" anime trash humor). When it takes itself seriously it's phenomenal, there are some amazing story and cut scene bits. Just that whenever something really great happens there usually is a weird scene that takes me out one chapter after. And to be clear, I read a shit ton of manga, but I can't stand the generic ones, and there exist a lot of them. XC2 has a couple elements of these.

Gameplay wise XC2 has more mechanics and variety overall but I still liked XC1s more, it felt more tightly designed, which makes sense given that you have less freedom with your selection of arts (fewer characters but each one has more arts, making every character more unique).

I'd say go for XC2, it's still great, but it's definitely different in terms of tone and a bit worse as a cohesive package.
 
The pacing is better

In what universe would that be true?!

The entire 2nd half of Xenoblade 1 is a long grind with only sparse story cutscenes breaking up monotony.

I'll do this because apparently it needs to be done:

Story:
1 has a revenge story. 2 has an escort-to-paradise story. However, 2 much better presents its story, fleshes it out and ultimately is much deeper and darker than 1.

Characters: There's Shulk in 1 and the rest ... exists. Meanwhile Xenoblade 2-characters all feel alive, get plenty of interaction and mostly have their own story arcs. You might dislike their specific nature, but in terms of fully realizing characters, 2 is high and above 1.

Combat: I consider 2's combat the best of any jrpg. It turns into a rhythm-game on high level. It's deep, varied, abd most importantly fun. It evolves over the course of the game. 1's combat stays the same from start to finish. People like to criticize 2's GUI, but 1's forces me to look at the lower end of the screen all the time so I can choose the correct art. In 2, every action has a dedicated button and it just flows.

Graphics: no contest, 2 looks much better. Obviously, 1 is a remaster, 2 a game made for switch.

Music: Before playing DE, I'd have said both's soundtrack is onpar. That's actually wrong now. While 1 has a fantastic soundtrack, 2's music is sooo much more memorable and emotional. 1 probably has the better battle music, but for cutscenes, 2 wins, too.

General gameplay: I've said it before: 1 is just too much running past wide, empty fields with no interaction. 2 has more compact areas, but those are chockfilled with secrets to explore, and as much as some find the field skills annoying, it was MS's attempt at more involved world interaction. 1 had nothing and I liked unlocking new paths in 2. My hope is that Xenoblade 3 becomes even more interactive.

Story presentation: 1 presents itself like a (very good) jrpg. 2's cutscenes have bonafide anime-quality. Proof: I actually rewatched the cutscenes before the release of DE. So good.

And so on.
There certainly can be subjective reasons to prefer 1 over 2, but I find it unfair to imply Xenoblade 2 doesn't excel at story and characters, too.
 

Herr Edgy

Member
In what universe would that be true?!

The entire 2nd half of Xenoblade 1 is a long grind with only sparse story cutscenes breaking up monotony.

I'll do this because apparently it needs to be done:

Story:
1 has a revenge story. 2 has an escort-to-paradise story. However, 2 much better presents its story, fleshes it out and ultimately is much deeper and darker than 1.

Characters: There's Shulk in 1 and the rest ... exists. Meanwhile Xenoblade 2-characters all feel alive, get plenty of interaction and mostly have their own story arcs. You might dislike their specific nature, but in terms of fully realizing characters, 2 is high and above 1.

Combat: I consider 2's combat the best of any jrpg. It turns into a rhythm-game on high level. It's deep, varied, abd most importantly fun. It evolves over the course of the game. 1's combat stays the same from start to finish. People like to criticize 2's GUI, but 1's forces me to look at the lower end of the screen all the time so I can choose the correct art. In 2, every action has a dedicated button and it just flows.

Graphics: no contest, 2 looks much better. Obviously, 1 is a remaster, 2 a game made for switch.

Music: Before playing DE, I'd have said both's soundtrack is onpar. That's actually wrong now. While 1 has a fantastic soundtrack, 2's music is sooo much more memorable and emotional. 1 probably has the better battle music, but for cutscenes, 2 wins, too.

General gameplay: I've said it before: 1 is just too much running past wide, empty fields with no interaction. 2 has more compact areas, but those are chockfilled with secrets to explore, and as much as some find the field skills annoying, it was MS's attempt at more involved world interaction. 1 had nothing and I liked unlocking new paths in 2. My hope is that Xenoblade 3 becomes even more interactive.

Story presentation: 1 presents itself like a (very good) jrpg. 2's cutscenes have bonafide anime-quality. Proof: I actually rewatched the cutscenes before the release of DE. So good.

And so on.
There certainly can be subjective reasons to prefer 1 over 2, but I find it unfair to imply Xenoblade 2 doesn't excel at story and characters, too.
I can not consider a story where every 2nd chapter features tsundere "hentai!! >///<" moments or a sorta-villain piloting a huge doll maid robot in between scenes of world-shattering events, action and politics a 'well paced story', sorry, that's just impossible. Longer periods of gameplay in Xenoblade 1 do not invalidate the better paced story.

Also I didn't say that XC2 does not excel with the story; it does, definitely, compared to most games that exist.
The cut scenes that actually further the story are incredible and hype. But the ones that don't, that are supposed to make the characters feel more personal, fall mostly flat for me, because I can not consider bad anime comedy 'good characterization' because it's.. not. That's a big reason why characters fall flat in comparison to XC1. While the story has great presentation, and some characters have great moments, most characters are walking well known anime stereotypes that don't venture past their stereotypes in their interactions.
While not every character in XC1 gets the same amount of spotlight, they all have their very personal moments that also come up later in the game (Sharla, an early game character, loses importance as the game progresses, yet her story arc only gets its closure at
Agniratha
and fits into the overarching story). Riki and Dunban have an incredibly wholesome moment that defies the 'mature warrior' and 'stupid mascot' image that happens when the pacing of the overall story allows for it to happen
as the Fallen Arm lies between the conflict of the Mechonis and the Bionis. It's a secluded and generally peaceful area, that has little to do with the on-going war. Having personal moments like these makes sense to have at that point in the story.

Gameplay and story flow is also better in XC1. You have tons of "winning the fight, losing the fight in the cut scene" type of deals in XC2. In XC1, you winning the fight always gets acknowledged in cut scenes, yet some external event such as the arrival of new characters, something happening in the environment and the likes can flip the overall situation, or you don't even get to win the fight due to the cut scene triggering at certain HP levels. Basic examples:
When you fight Xord, he still has a lot of HP left when the cut scene triggers that shows the party struggling against him. Shulk says "We'll never get to Juju at this rate" - the focus is on saving a person rather than just winning a fight. Then Otharon brings out that vehicle.
You fight Metal Face/Mumkhar and win the fight, which also gets acknowledged in the cut scene by Dunban wounding Mumkhar. Then Egil arrives and the focal point o the story changes from the duel between Dunban and Mumkhar to Egil and the revelations he brings.
When fighting against Akhos you empty his HP bar, only to find him bashing your head in with no reasonable transition or explanation. There are no external factors going on; it's just a fight. The fight against him in gameplay does not get acknowledged in the cut scenes. He just says "what an honor to fight against the aegis" and proceeds to beat you up.
Tora's supposed character arc happens when the disappearance of his father is brought up, who is forced to work against his will for Bana. But all of that is a side-story without a proper connection to the overarching story, as opposed to Sharla's arc in Agniratha. The entire arc to give Tora more of a character and backstory has nothing to do with the main story and ends in a fight against a maid mech...
There are a ton more of these examples, and they work in favor and against XC1 and XC2 respectively.

XC2 is great, but there are too many small shortcomings in the story and the way gameplay + story flow is handled that reduce the hype that was built before.
 
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I can not consider a story where every 2nd chapter features tsundere "hentai!! >///<" moments


Almost read a resetera-posting, phew.

(I'm sick of certain people trashing Xenoblade 2 for the same 4 scenes featuring sexual humor in a 70+ hour game. That just shows where your intention comes from. I won't bother with people arguing like that anymore. #scaryboobs)
 

Virex

Banned
Was busy with another game and finished that. But going to start this tomorrow evening. Looking forward to it and experiencing the game again. One of my favourite Wii games. Now it would be nice if Pandora's Tower and The Last Story go the same treatment.
 

Herr Edgy

Member
Almost read a resetera-posting, phew.

(I'm sick of certain people trashing Xenoblade 2 for the same 4 scenes featuring sexual humor in a 70+ hour game. That just shows where your intention comes from. I won't bother with people arguing like that anymore. #scaryboobs)
I shouldn't have bothered engaging with you, as per usual your post is embarassing.

You don't see me complain about boobs, you see me complain about bad writing. There's a difference. Next you'll tell me the stereotypical tsundere character that starts blushing and being angry with MC-kun for something she's responsible for is indicative of a good character lol
 
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Herr Edgy

Member
I have not read the word tsundere in years... man it is good to be back on GAF oh the memories.
Herr Edgy Herr Edgy you seem to know way too much about Hentai to complain about bad character traits leave Mythra alone
I have read my fair share of it. And I'll give you a hint, the reason for that is not the good writing.
Will you acknowledge my authority on the subject now? "pie_tears_joy:

Also, in case you didn't know, tsunderes aren't really a hentai thing per se. They just appear in lots of mediocre anime.
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
I wonder how much time the quest markers will end up shaving off my final playtime compaired to the original. I feel like I'm moving a lot faster through the game even with doing all the quests.
 

Wunray

Member
I wonder how much time the quest markers will end up shaving off my final playtime compaired to the original. I feel like I'm moving a lot faster through the game even with doing all the quests.
Alot trust me, I think it shaved off 30 hours for me...........which is kinda embarissing to admit.........
 

MagnesG

Banned
I have read my fair share of it. And I'll give you a hint, the reason for that is not the good writing.
Will you acknowledge my authority on the subject now? "pie_tears_joy:

Also, in case you didn't know, tsunderes aren't really a hentai thing per se. They just appear in lots of mediocre anime.
Well to me those scenes are just fun cringe at worst, do you hate them that much? What does define to you a proper pacing in story? Hurr hurr nitty gritty depressing all day?

Even trash stereotype anime is fun to watch, because you laugh at them.
 
Just finished it today. What a ride,i never even heard of Xenoblade before. Out of boredom i decided to try it and it just wouldn't let go. Most of side quests were meh and ignored but the main story is top notch. The crazy amount of high quality cutscenese was awesome too.

Not sure if ill start the extra story but im def interested on picking up Xenoblade 2. I will though wait a few months because i dont want to completely get burned out on 2 huge games in a row.
 

Herr Edgy

Member
Well to me those scenes are just fun cringe at worst, do you hate them that much? What does define to you a proper pacing in story? Hurr hurr nitty gritty depressing all day?

Even trash stereotype anime is fun to watch, because you laugh at them.
I don't hate them. I'm just so indifferent to them that it takes me out of what is otherwise very good. Imagine you are eating a 3 course menu, the appetizer is delicious and then the most bland main course is brought out. Sure, you can eat it and sustain you, but it sure isn't up to par and it lowers your expectations for the desert.

Pacing in a story, in general, talks about the amount of tension that is experienced as the plot unfolds - the speed at which the plot progresses, essentially.
If it's too slow, it's boring, if it's too fast, it becomes worthless.

What you want to have is good transitions between slow and fast pacing. Slow pacing is good for very personal moments... talks, heart to hearts, the mundane day-to-day life and is therefore very good to establish culture, the foundation of the world and so on. Fast pacing is what blows your mind, that which hooks you. Action, development.
Xenoblade starts with very slow pacing - an outside explanation of how the world came to be. Then it transitions into a very fast pace, dropping you right in the action of the war between Homs and Mechon. Nothing is well explained, not what the Monado is, not how this war happened the way it did, nor who in specific the character trio of Dunban, Mumkhar and Dickson is nor what their roles are. This hooks you and it gives you a taste of what the game will be about.
Transition, slow scene, Shulk in Colony 9. You immediately recognize the mechon scrap, but the tension is fading. You start learning more about the day-to-day life, the culture, the world as it is experienced by everyday people. With the fast paced prologue in mind, you wonder how this all fits together, what happened with that war exactly?
As you get to know the main trio (Shulk, Reyn, Fiora) in a very slow paced and personal way, by letting you experience their day-to-day life, a very close connection is created, which is extremely important to the next fast paced high.
The scene that follows is the hook into Shulk's story.

Basically we go from the first high to the second low, which sets up questions and makes us pay more attention to what happens in that low. It basically gives us a reason to care about getting to know those characters in the slow paced part in Colony 9. We care more about Fiora because she is Dunban's sister. We care more about Shulk because he is interested in the Monado and has a relation to both Dickson and Dunban, which we are curious about. That slow paced part allows us to care about the events in the second high paced part and makes us invest emotionally.

If you imagine that tension on a curve, you'll notice that the it rises and falls, with a tendency to rise more towards the climax and to fall more after the climax.
Those transitions are supposed to be smooth. The problem with XC2's pacing is that in their attempts to have hooks and slow pacing alternating, their slow paced parts are completely detached from the main story and are rather trashy. The transitions happen in a very sudden way, that will remove the tension completely rather than letting it subside naturally.

An emotionally conflicted character looking for peace will only be interesting or satisfying to experience if the process makes sense and therefore lets the reader/viewer/player immerse themselves.
If the solution to the conflict just appears out of nowhere, it won't feel rewarding or satisfying.

That 'cut' in the tension is what is bad pacing.

As you mention trash anime, you are probably familiar with the 'power of friendship' idea, or the ressurection of characters. If it happens once and makes sense with the established rules, it's fine, but if you do it too often and the explanation feels half-assed, a character's death will not matter anymore because you've gotten used to the tension being removed for you by the storytelling.

Trash anime can certainly be enjoyed as the equivalent of trashy horror movies, but I wouldn't argue that this makes them actually good. In the case of XC2, there are some amazing and well written scenes and plot elements, but when you sprinkle in bad writing and uncohesive progression (like the fights <-> cutscene conflict I wrote about) it will make you feel less excited because either the bad writing becomes too predictable or unbelievable, or it gets so unforeseeable that it makes you lose the feeling of tension.

XC1 has a very smooth curve by being pretty consistent with its own rules, setting up character arcs properly and following through with them, not putting stupid jokes where they don't belong, gameplay flowing into story well and vice versa, et cetera.
XC2 more often than not feels like written by 2 different people, one of them trying to tell an interesting story, the other one writing a generic anime - the only thing connecting those being the characters themselves. Which is in fact, IIRC, what happened.
 
loving the game it's great and also thinking about getting XC2 once i'm done for those who played both how does XC2 compare to XC1?

Found XC2 far more tedious and slower paced. Hated the skill checks, the characters (except Pyra) and dropped the game after 110 hours, just couldn't stand how it dragged on. Enjoying my time with XC1 much more.
 

Vawn

Banned
I wonder how much time the quest markers will end up shaving off my final playtime compaired to the original. I feel like I'm moving a lot faster through the game even with doing all the quests.

I imagine a ton. It feels like the game plays itself at times.
 

Ulysses 31

Gold Member
I'm one of the biggest X haters around. I'm the last person you will see campaigning for that game to get a sequel. Its on my Xeno games I don't like list right along with Xenosaga 2.
What did you hate about it?

The forced exploration to progress the story?
Being a super soldier AI with no history?
Elma? :lollipop_thescream:
Sawano's music? :lollipop_thescream:
 

Mister Wolf

Gold Member
What did you hate about it?

The forced exploration to progress the story?
Being a super soldier AI with no history?
Elma? :lollipop_thescream:
Sawano's music? :lollipop_thescream:

Since Xenogears my main pleasure in playing Xeno games is the story. That took a backseat in X with its create a character design. Felt like a Bethesda game. They should have just made Elma the main character you use and went story heavy around her no different than Rex and Shulk. I also don't accept the line of thinking that Elma is the main character and you are along for the ride. That type of storytelling doesn't interest me especially in a Xeno game. Combat and World are fine in X but story is first and foremost for me. It also ended on a cliffhanger. Felt like they tried to go back to Xenosaga era Monolith Soft with these stories that need to be told over multiple games and that didn't work for them the first time they tried doing it back then. If a story as complex as Xenogears can be told with one game then X could have as well. I can also do without all of Sawano's vocal tracks and shitty attempts at doing rap music. Uncontrollable is the one outlier vocal song, its great.
 
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Herr Edgy

Member
Since Xenogears my main pleasure in playing Xeno games is the story. That took a backseat in X with its create a character design. Felt like a Bethesda game. They should have just made Elma the main character you use and went story heavy around her no different than Rex and Shulk. I also don't accept the line of thinking that Elma is the main character and you are along for the ride. That type of storytelling doesn't interest me especially in a Xeno game. Combat and World are fine in X but story is first and foremost for me. It also ended on a cliffhanger. Felt like they tried to go back to Xenosaga era Monolith Soft with these stories that need to be told over multiple games and that didn't work for them the first time they tried doing it back then. If a story as complex as Xenogears can be told with one game then X could have as well. I can also do without all of Sawano's vocal tracks and shitty attempts at doing rap music. Uncontrollable is the one outlier vocal song, its great.
Word(s).
Everything in XCX aside from gameplay suffered from what they did. You aren't a proper protagonist, but neither is Elma. Her character boils down to "needing to get this done ASAP". There is no proper character there. XCX was a huge experiment on their end, and I feel like half-way through they just scrapped original plans they had because that's when they scrapped the proper protagonist to introduce a character creator and online. You don't do this sort of thing halfway through production in a large game. This has huge impacts on story, cut scenes, characterization of all other supporting characters and antagonists (what would Melia be if there was no Shulk?), sidequests that reference you as this specific person. You do that at most during pre production.

My guess is they were way off track, and were already taking way too long anyways, so they decided to put maximum effort into making tech to battletest the engine. Online and custom characters are such things.

Also if you look at the Art of Mira book, there is so much content in there that was obviously left out of the game rather than scrapped. Some of the concepts looked extremely promising, and barely anything made it into the game. There is no way it went 'as planned', also given the comment that the script Takahashi wrote was the biggest one yet, yet XCX was the game that barely had a story at all.
 
I have read my fair share of it. And I'll give you a hint, the reason for that is not the good writing.
Will you acknowledge my authority on the subject now? "pie_tears_joy:

Also, in case you didn't know, tsunderes aren't really a hentai thing per se. They just appear in lots of mediocre anime.

I don't doubt your knowledge of this topic at all, I am just surprised this is a negative point to you having taking such a deep dive into what Japanese find entertaining. It was mostly written for them more than it was for us mind you. I don't expect Shakespeare out of them.

Tsundere is more of a character flaw in a character arc than it is stereotypical of anything. You hardly see that tag used anymore these days, it was one of the most overused ones. XB2 is pretty much a harem anime so having a tsundere should not be shocking to anyone who knows this stuff, it should be expected as much as a cat girl or bunny girl. If you look at manga books or even hentai books I am not talking about videos here or anime, I mean the art drawing on paper stuff. Many of them are published as a compilation of guest artist or mangaka. Each chapter is a different story drawn by a different artist. I think this is what Monolith Soft went for with XB2. It got a lot of backlash from folks like you expecting more of the same but I think they did the whole manga readers fandom justice with fanservice. XB2 is lighter and a whole lot of fun.

I always found tsunderes to be funny in manga this made the fanservice in XC2 even funnier knowing this is what they were going for I think that was the point for Mythra. It is just part of Japanese writing. If they bother you why bother playing a JRPG who's developer grow up with this type of stuff. I bet half the guest artist in XC2 have a hentai pen name.

I don't think Japanese writers need to abandon everything in their culture just to please our tastes, I partly enjoy the fact that these things are from people who have different views on things.
 
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