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[TeTr1C]

You guys are ridiculous with all your bitching about how cheap it looks. Want to talk about similarity? Just take a look at Sony for the past two generations, and I doubt they'll change for the PS3. Nintendo will come out with some ridiculous piece of shit probably like they have for the past 2 generations because they want to be "revolutionary". Psh.

The black/white buttons were moved to the top. That's an improvement. It's wireless. Improvement. The color is the only thing to make a gripe about, unless you just despise MS altogether.

 

[Chrono]

Nintendo will come out with some ridiculous piece of shit probably like they have for the past 2 generations because they want to be "revolutionary". Psh.
.

Everybody copied the N64 controller (analog stick). It was revolutionary whether you like it or not and changed gaming for the better.

 

[sol5377]

daaaaaaaaaamn hot. I hope they go with the all "ipod"-like white color. That shit is hot and totally mass market.

 

[shpankey]

if a game or games call for a new control method, then fine. but if your guiding principle is difference for the sake of difference...well...you get bad designs like the ds, and no games to justify them.

the progress of controllers over the years -- or at least post-nes -- has been to add more functions and more buttons. current controllers work, and they have enough buttons. there's nothing wrong with controller design reaching a happy equilibrium. computer keyboards have been pretty much the same for decades. violins have been the same for centuries.

but if someone has to build weird controllers "for the good of the industry," then i'm glad it's nintendo and not a company i like.

damn, perfectly said.

 

[Liquid_Bike]

It looks pretty similar to the logitech xbox controller

 

[JackFrost2012]

Everybody copied the N64 controller (analog stick). It was revolutionary whether you like it or not and changed gaming for the better.

Nintendo was hardly the first company to offer analog control.

On the other hand, it was Sony which came up with the idea of two analog sticks on one controller, including the now-standard "camera stick" for 3D games ... something Nintendo copied for the GameCube.

 

[Azih]

Controller add-ons were their idea though, which has been copied widely (DC, XBox pads).

 

[gofreak]

if a game or games call for a new control method, then fine. but if your guiding principle is difference for the sake of difference...well...you get bad designs like the ds, and no games to justify them.

the progress of controllers over the years -- or at least post-nes -- has been to add more functions and more buttons. current controllers work, and they have enough buttons. there's nothing wrong with controller design reaching a happy equilibrium. computer keyboards have been pretty much the same for decades. violins have been the same for centuries.

but if someone has to build weird controllers "for the good of the industry," then i'm glad it's nintendo and not a company i like.

They're experimenting to make controllers simpler without sacrificing control. Which is actually necessary - not for you or me, but for the many other people who try games, and walk away after a very short period of time because they can't get the hang of them.

If we're still playing games with the same type of controllers as today in 5 or 10 years time, I'll eat my hat. Massive change won't happen overnight, but yeah, someone DOES have to experiment and work towards the day when things have changed completely. The controllers of today would be a real limiting factor in the games of 5 or 10 years time from now - you may think they've reached rough perfection, but they do infact impose limitations themselves..we just don't notice that so much because they've become established, a given, and games mould themselves around them.

 

[LakeEarth]

Nintendo was hardly the first company to offer analog control.

On the other hand, it was Sony which came up with the idea of two analog sticks on one controller, including the now-standard "camera stick" for 3D games ... something Nintendo copied for the GameCube.

Yeah but Sony was the most obvious offender of copying Nintendo's analog stick, who didn't invent the analog stick but they USED it unlike any other videogame hardware manufacturer at the time. Sony stopped production on their controllers halfway through the generation and just slapped on two analog sticks to their controller (in uncomfortable spots to reach no less). The controller was already an exact copy of the SNES controller with handles and 2 extra shoulder buttons, and they just put two analog sticks in, added rumble functionality (which, again, Nintendo made popular with the rumble pack a few months earlier) and called it a day. So don't start the "Sony's creative" parade just yet.

 

[JackFrost2012]

So don't start the "Sony's creative" parade just yet.

But ... but I bought all these balloons!

 

[Azih]

Thing is gofreak, that the majority of our generation and an even bigger proportion of the next generation are used to the complexity of current controllers. The need for simpler controls is only necessary for the middle aged and over crowd and a not insignificant proportion of even them are fine with the current controller design.

Really game companies will do just fine by selling to us (we have Disposable Income now!!) cause I doubt many of us will stop gaming as we become older and richer. Making games that the grandma of today will play is a pipe dream anyway and the grandmas of the future will have grown up using cellphones and PDAs.

 

[Gek54]

The controller was already an exact copy of the SNES controller with handles and 2 extra shoulder buttons, and they just put two analog sticks in, added rumble functionality (which, again, Nintendo made popular with the rumble pack a few months earlier) and called it a day. So don't start the "Sony's creative" parade just yet.

:lol @ "Exact copy" I guess the Xbox controler is an 'exact copy' of the DC controler too.

 

[gofreak]

Thing is gofreak, that the majority of our generation and an even bigger proportion of the next generation are used to the complexity of current controllers. The need for simpler controls is only necessary for the middle aged and over crowd and a not insignificant proportion of even them are fine with the current controller design.

I'd disagree. I know plenty of 30-something people who bought playstations because it was "cool", but who struggle with game controls. I know some "gamers" too who had trouble getting used to dual-analog!

Complexity aside, though, the bigger issue, for me at least, is that the modern controller will not provide a sufficient interface for games going forward IMO. Games will start looking and behaving very real, but you'll still be sitting there, abstracted away from the experience, controlling things with sticks and buttons? No thanks.

I'm not saying that Nintendo will do what needs to be done in terms of interface in the space of one generation. I'm just saying that I'm glad they're experimenting and making it a priority. Sony is experimenting too, which is great.

 

[SantaC]

so MS is finally making a 1st party wireless controller now? About time, they are just 1 generation behind.

 

[Redbeard]

Complexity aside, though, the bigger issue, for me at least, is that the modern controller will not provide a sufficient interface for games going forward IMO. Games will start looking and behaving very real, but you'll still be sitting there, abstracted away from the experience, controlling things with sticks and buttons? No thanks.

As long as playing games consists of a person watching things happen on a TV screen you will always be abstracted from the experience. Until true VR comes along sticks and buttons are just fine.

 

[gofreak]

As long as playing games consists of a person watching things happen on a TV screen you will always be abstracted from the experience.

True, but there are levels of abstraction..

A lot more can happen with interface, I think, even whilst games remain on a TV.

 

[The Faceless Master]

But ... but I bought all these balloons!

hope you have a receipt!

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Lord Error]

I will say this, I hope Sony at least redesigns the Dual Shock.

That design is really starting to age and the d-pad and analog sticks suck ass.

I'm kinda hoping they go with those "see-saw" shoulder buttons from that Sony patent we saw a while back, that might create an interesting new kind of play dynamic.

Hell no. I hope they at least keep the shape the same or very simillar, they can rearrange buttons and sticks if they want. That see-saw thing sound like it's something very specialized, thus not a good idea, IMO.
PS3 will almost certainly have some important new interface elements, but they will likely be based more on IR camera(s) than big controller change.

 

[Redbeard]

True, but there are levels of abstraction..

A lot more can happen with interface, I think, even whilst games remain on a TV.

Mabye, but I doubt for the kinds of games we're playing now. Take something like Mario or Zelda, no matter how realistic it is ultimately you're still just moving a little guy around the screen, making him run and jump and attack things. I really find it hard to believe that somewhere out there there's a better way to make them do all the things we need them to do. Games that really need or benefit from better interfaces have them already; force-feedback racing wheels, flight sticks, instruments, etc...

Nintendo (or anyone else) just coming up with new ways to do things for the sake of novelty instead of necessity is too reminiscent of the power glove or U-force kind of 'innovation'.

 

[truffleshuffle83]

im definatly liking this controller. shoulder buttons and a trigger i can finally pick up a better looking madden without having to let the computer auto -juke/stiffarm choosing which way it wants to go

 

[gofreak]

Mabye, but I doubt for the kinds of games we're playing now. Take something like Mario or Zelda, no matter how realistic it is ultimately you're still just moving a little guy around the screen, making him run and jump and attack things. I really find it hard to believe that somewhere out there there's a better way to make them do all the things we need them to do. Games that really need or benefit from better interfaces have them already; force-feedback racing wheels, flight sticks, instruments, etc... .

I disagree. A lot can be done, for example, with motion mapping in a game like Zelda. General character movement is trickier (i.e. getting a character from A to B), and that'd require something more a long the lines of what we have now (a stick), but you could do so much more in terms of other actions with motion mapping (as one potential new interface that could be integrated into games). And no, you wouldn't need to give yourself a heart attack exerting yourself in the same way you might want Link to

Also, you talk about "the kinds of games we're playing now". You do realise the "kinds of games we're playing now" are borne in a large part out of the controllers we have today, and their limitations? It's not as if we've reached a place where things are perfect and there's no room for improvement. Games could change (for the better) to take advantage of new types of interface, as long as it makes sense and the interface is general enough. If we had a general system that extended control to greater levels of detail, whilst being simple and intuitive, games would undoubtely benefit. That's the trick though - making things general, extensible and simple at the same time. My hat goes off to whomever can do it.

 

[Rob]

For those who are calling that middle button a track ball. Didn't MS say they were going to include a "Live" button where you could simply press it and it bring up a Live menu? Is it possible that THAT is what the large middle button is?

 

[XboxGamers]

The ourcolony.net 'teaser' pics:

Nice!

 

[Redbeard]

Also, you talk about "the kinds of games we're playing now". You do realise the "kinds of games we're playing now" are borne in a large part out of the controllers we have today, and their limitations?

I'd say it's the other way around; the controllers we have today have evolved out of a need to suit the games we want to play.

I mean, noone put an analog stick on a control pad just for the hell of it* and said "okay, now what do we do with this thing?", it was adopted out of a need for better 3D movement control. You can say the same for any standardized feature.

*Incidentally, this seems to be the approach that brought about the DS; put two screens in and then try to figure out what to do with them.

 

[rastex]

I disagree. A lot can be done, for example, with motion mapping in a game like Zelda. General character movement is trickier (i.e. getting a character from A to B), and that'd require something more a long the lines of what we have now (a stick), but you could do so much more in terms of other actions with motion mapping (as one potential new interface that could be integrated into games). And no, you wouldn't need to give yourself a heart attack exerting yourself in the same way you might want Link to

Can you give a more detailed example as to how motion mapping would significantly increase the experience in a game like Zelda?

If I understand what you're saying correctly, you're talking about motion mapping in the same vein as EyeToy does things right? In which case it really just becomes a matter of random access versus sequential access. And that's what fundamentally input comes down to. Keyboards and mice, EyeToy, voice, all these things are examples of random Access input devices. Whereas trackballs and joysticks are examples of sequential input devices. I hope you know what I'm talking about when I say random vs sequential.

The thing is, both types of input devices can be mapped to the other. So instead of pushing up to continue to move up with a joystick, you could make the joystick's position map directly to onscreen coordinates. The problem with turning a joystick into direct/random access is that most people don't have fine enough motor control to utilize it effectively, so it would only result in frustration.

So now I'll get to my main point. Innovative devices are a false hope. Everything is an isomorphism of each other, and while certain devices may be more convenient and EASIER to use than a controller, ultimately they will not offer a fundamentally different experience to the user. The experience might be more visceral, such as banging on congo drums instead of tapping on the controller, but really you're still just tapping.

And if the actions themselves (meaning banging on the drums, turning that wheel, punching the screen) aren't part of the game's experience then the input device can be any old controller and the controller's design itself in regards to position and button reachability becomes the most important factor.

 

[sprsk]

i wish more controllers had VMU's

i miss those things

 

[gofreak]

I'd say it's the other way around; the controllers we have today have evolved out of a need to suit the games we want to play.

True, but while we put say an analog stick on the control for good reasons (the move to 3D), games are still shaped by its limitations now, and of other parts of the controller. So yeah, saying they were borne of the controller is wrong, but I do definitely think that they are to some degree shaped by them, if not to the same degree that games shaped controllers. Nothing in controllers today is a cure-all - they still bear problems that are reflected in games today. Auto-aim in console FPSs. Context-sensitive "action" buttons etc.

My point is, it should be wholly possible to develop new interfaces that would work with "the types of games we have today" - interfaces that would in most respects improve control, and in some cases, take it to a whole other level. Whilst simultaneously making things a bit more accessible.

On a side note, specifically re. the DS - I agree on the two-screen issue, but the touchscreen was a good idea IMO, especially for the type of system it is, a handheld. I think they had a firmer idea of what they wanted to do with the touchscreen from a games perspective than they did of the second screen.

 

[Azure Dream]

i wish more controllers had VMU's

i miss those things

Ah, yes, the shrill beeps every time you booted up because they'd chewed through their batteries four minutes after you gave them fresh ones...

 

[Joe]

wait a second...ipod-esque controllers...apple at e3.....THEYVE COMBINED THEIR FORCES

 

[Ryudo]

Apart from looks i dont see what there is not to like. Its modifies the already winning formula of the Controller "s" and makes it even more functional.

 

[Bebpo]

I will say this, I hope Sony at least redesigns the Dual Shock.

That design is really starting to age and the d-pad and analog sticks suck ass.

I'm kinda hoping they go with those "see-saw" shoulder buttons from that Sony patent we saw a while back, that might create an interesting new kind of play dynamic.

I dunno. I kinda hope they'll be almost exactly the same. Other than for racing games (where you can get a wheel anyway), the controller is the most comfortable and works great for all types of games. The analogue sticks might not be as good as the xbox ones for FPS games, but considering that there was never a decent FPS for PS2 it's kinda tough to compare.

I guess the main thing is that I love the buttons on the DS. The xbox ones are too large and pushed outwards. For games like rpgs where you're tapping O all day, soft easy to press buttons >>>>>>>>>>> anything else.