• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Yara Shahidi to Play Tinkerbell in Disney's Live-Action 'Peter Pan'

D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
If it's a good movie, it's a good movie. The race of the actress is unlikely to affect that. She looks rather pixieish, so it works for me.

I'm usually not into these modern remakes, but I'll check it out with my kids if word of mouth is good. It's not like the originals are going away.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I just don't see the point of these remakes? What are they trying to achieve? They will never be classics. The originals will always be the classic. I have watched Lion King and Jungle Book, but I'll never watch them again. Because the originals were better.

And I don't like changing established characters into something completely different either. They are iconic not just for their personalities, but also for their looks. There is a reason why the little mermaid, Tinkerbell, Aladdin, Simba, or whoever else are instantly recognizable by silhouette alone. These new interpretations will never achieve that, and they haven't so far.

I get these movies make money. But making movies should be about more than just money, shouldn't it? Shouldn't some of the goal be to create something that lasts? New experiences that will be treasured in the future the way the old classics are now? How are you gonna achieve that when all you do is rehashing and "improving" on old ones?
It's another cheap cash grab because hollywood is creatively bankrupt. They can't create anything new. They can't take risks so they bet their money on nostalgia.
The fact that most of the people calling the shots are talentless SJW hacks doesn't help either.
 
Last edited:
And let's say Disney hypothetically only asked white people to apply for the role. This is ok?
Outside of the specific circumstances of either this being a direct continuation/depiction of Disney's existing and highly iconic version of her from the original Peter Pan to everything since, where she has an established look, or they were trying to accurately portray her as per the original books description of the character as fair skinned, then I'd say no. They're already taking liberties with the source material, so why bother trying to cast accurately when that just limits the talent pool?

If it's its own thing, separated out from any existing context and taking liberties with the source material, then it should of course cast whoever is best for the role. I just don't trust them to have done so.

Ironically, as a side note, I believe the only main character in Peter Pan who doesn't have an established appearance in the books, specifically so the reader could imagine themselves in the role regardless of how they looked themselves, was actually Peter Pan.
 
Last edited:

Woopah

Member
The real outrage here is that they're still churning out these soulless husks of movies that were once good.



So is Black Panther, but nobody would dare go there.
Yes but the skin colour of that character is an important part of their identity and their storyline. When Tinkerbell was first represented outside the book she was a glowing light. When Disney made their cartoon Peter Pan, Tinkerbell could have been black/white/native American or any other ethnicity.

It's like the Lost Boys, they can be represented as the same ethnicity as they were in the cartoon version, but if other adaptations want them to have different ethnicities then that's completely fine.
 

Salz01

Member
Besides the fact they change iconic roles / images to fit ‘Diversity’, my bigger problem is that these stories don’t need to be remade or retold. It sets up the whole, err ‘I like the white tinkerbell’ more. Is it so they can sell both white and tinker bells at the Disney stores and make money a little more money that way? It just shows they are creatively bankrupt. They don’t have the energy , money or talent to come up with new stories. I prefer new stories with a diverse cast, when it fits and makes sense. You can’t tell me it’s not possible.
 
This whole topic has gone exactly as expected, with the standard defense tactic employed. All of these changes only go one way. If it's a white character, race isn't essential to said character and it can be changed without issue. If it's a black character, then race is essential and that character must be preserved. If you don't agree with that, people in this thread will simultaneously call you a bigot and mock you for having an opinion. It's important enough for them to defend the motives and change, but it's not important enough for those motives to be challenged or questioned.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
This whole topic has gone exactly as expected, with the standard defense tactic employed. All of these changes only go one way. If it's a white character, race isn't essential to said character and it can be changed without issue. If it's a black character, then race is essential and that character must be preserved. If you don't agree with that, people in this thread will simultaneously call you a bigot and mock you for having an opinion. It's important enough for them to defend the motives and change, but it's not important enough for those motives to be challenged or questioned.


The majority of people in this thread are whinging at the news ...

But changing a black, Asian, latino character to a white person is a practice that is as old as Hollywood... It even still goes on ... But you don't see that so it must not happen, right?
 

Tesseract

Banned
disney doesn't care about you

they will hijack your identity for profit and you'll smile and nod because it feels good

don't take the bait, depersonalize your soul like venom snake
 
Besides the fact they change iconic roles / images to fit ‘Diversity’, my bigger problem is that these stories don’t need to be remade or retold. It sets up the whole, err ‘I like the white tinkerbell’ more. Is it so they can sell both white and tinker bells at the Disney stores and make money a little more money that way? It just shows they are creatively bankrupt. They don’t have the energy , money or talent to come up with new stories. I prefer new stories with a diverse cast, when it fits and makes sense. You can’t tell me it’s not possible.

Disney have made most of their money telling other people's stories. Peter Pan is a British children's fairy tale. Snow White, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast etc Grimm Fairy Tales. Mulan, Sword in the Stone, The Little Mermaid Hercules et al are various countries myths and legends. Generally their original stories are a bit shit and underperformed.

As for diversity, they could have made both the lost boys and pirates a veritable cornucopia of different races and not had it been weird or stink of bigoted pity casting.

Hell, that's exactly the case with Hook, now that I think about it. They even had Peter pass on his sword and leadership of the Lost Boys to an obese black kid at the end and no one cared, because racism was weirdly much less of an issue 30 years ago.

The majority of people in this thread are whinging at the news ...

But changing a black, Asian, latino character to a white person is a practice that is as old as Hollywood... It even still goes on ... But you don't see that so it must not happen, right?
So you agree they shouldn't have made her black, eh?

Also does that happen much anymore? Outside of adaptions that change the location as well as the races?

There was that fuss about Scarlets Johnson playing the Major in Ghost in The Shell I remember people lost their shit over a few years ago, despite the original creator saying he designed her with a European/American woman in mind.

Also a few egyptian and biblical epics in the last 10 years, but that's a massive fucking can of worms on what anyone's actual race/appearance would have really been like anyway, so not the best example.

What are you specifically referencing?
 

Kev Kev

Member
gTrsAAz.png
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
The real outrage here is that they're still churning out these soulless husks of movies that were once good.



So is Black Panther, but nobody would dare go there.

Right... A prince become king from a fictional ISOLATIONIST African country that has passed down the mantle of Black Panther and rulership down through MILLENIA... Should have a white Black Panther/King...

Some characters have race as a defining concept. It can be malleable but I doubt that malleability can be applied to Black Panther... Yes I know he has a white adopted brother but you can't have him without T'Challa and T'Chaka
 

ExpandKong

Banned
Right... A prince become king from a fictional ISOLATIONIST African country that has passed down the mantle of Black Panther and rulership down through MILLENIA... Should have a white Black Panther/King...

Some characters have race as a defining concept. It can be malleable but I doubt that malleability can be applied to Black Panther... Yes I know he has a white adopted brother but you can't have him without T'Challa and T'Chaka

Fair point. What about someone like Heimdall though, a Norse god (literally "the whitest skinned of the gods" in the mythology) played by Idris Elba?

To be clear, playing around with a character's representation as a concept doesn't bug me - it's the fact that it seems to be a one-way street that gives me pause.
 

brap

Banned
Oh for Petes sake... I can't find that image. There is an image showing how Disney is systematically replacing all the white charters with POC. This has nothing to do with "The best actor for the role".
Are you talking about like in my op here?
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
there once was a time when this company was known for taking old folk tales and mythologies and creating beautiful modern interpretations of them. all the classic Di$ney movies follow this formula, whether it is the original Peter Pan, or Aladdin, or Robin Hood, or Alice in Wonderland, or the Little Mermaid... the problem comes when the source material stops being these wonderful Public Domain stories and instead consists solely of already existing in-house corporate properties. the latter of which, of course, is more profitable, them being the IP owners and all. but there was once a time when they took traditional storytelling and made something new and magical from it. these new remakes and like the straight-to-VHS version of the old knock off sequels.

instead of looking outward and creating new culture via reinterperetation, they are cannibalizing themselves, making shadows of shadows.
 
Last edited:

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
Fair point. What about someone like Heimdall though, a Norse god (literally "the whitest skinned of the gods" in the mythology) played by Idris Elba?

To be clear, playing around with a character's representation as a concept doesn't bug me - it's the fact that it seems to be a one-way street that gives me pause.

Only thing is... These are aliens. Not Norse gods. And not based on 616 Marvel universe.
Disney have made most of their money telling other people's stories. Peter Pan is a British children's fairy tale. Snow White, Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast etc Grimm Fairy Tales. Mulan, Sword in the Stone, The Little Mermaid Hercules et al are various countries myths and legends. Generally their original stories are a bit shit and underperformed.

As for diversity, they could have made both the lost boys and pirates a veritable cornucopia of different races and not had it been weird or stink of bigoted pity casting.

Hell, that's exactly the case with Hook, now that I think about it. They even had Peter pass on his sword and leadership of the Lost Boys to an obese black kid at the end and no one cared, because racism was weirdly much less of an issue 30 years ago.


So you agree they shouldn't have made her black, eh?

Also does that happen much anymore? Outside of adaptions that change the location as well as the races?

There was that fuss about Scarlets Johnson playing the Major in Ghost in The Shell I remember people lost their shit over a few years ago, despite the original creator saying he designed her with a European/American woman in mind.

Also a few egyptian and biblical epics in the last 10 years, but that's a massive fucking can of worms on what anyone's actual race/appearance would have really been like anyway, so not the best example.

What are you specifically referencing?

Angelina Jolie in both Wanted and A Mighty Heart (playing the real life Marianne Pearl) , Ben Affleck in Argo (playing a real life latino man named Tony Mendez), Emma Stone in Aloha... There are others but I can't think of them right now. These are all within the last decade. That's not even TRYING to mention The Last Airbender...

Oh! And that movie, I think called, 21. It was based on the real life team of card counting college students who were all or mostly Asian American... But who were instead racebent to be all white ... While still touting itself as "the true story".
 
Last edited:
I dont know. I'm not Disney's bookkeeper. It is a much more logical argument than the typical one coming from middle aged men complaining about poc getting roles in children's films that were originally white though.

I wouldn’t have an issue with it if people didn’t freak out when honkeys do anything that might not be honkey related. Braids in your hair? Cultural appropriation. Open up a burrito restaurant? Nah fuck that whitey. White kids weren’t allowed to wear costumes from Moana for fucks sake because how dare they want to be a character that’s not white “irony!”.

I’m just over the bullshit. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You either want to be a part of society and we all share shit or we all do our own thing based on what we look like which honestly is ridiculous. This whole “We want to have our own super heroes and movies and anthems etc. which you can’t have any part of If you don’t look like us but we want most of your shit too“ is silly.
 
I wouldn’t have an issue with it if people didn’t freak out when honkeys do anything that might not be honkey related. Braids in your hair? Cultural appropriation. Open up a burrito restaurant? Nah fuck that whitey. White kids weren’t allowed to wear costumes from Moana for fucks sake because how dare they want to be a character that’s not white “irony!”.

I’m just over the bullshit. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You either want to be a part of society and we all share shit or we all do our own thing based on what we look like which honestly is ridiculous. This whole “We want to have our own super heroes and movies and anthems etc. which you can’t have any part of If you don’t look like us but we want most of your shit too“ is silly.

The idea of "cultural appropriation" for the most part is lunacy, I agree.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
Most people who cite "cultural appropriation" are using the term wrong and just using it as a cudgel to browbeat folks for no reason.
 

ExpandKong

Banned
Only thing is... These are aliens. Not Norse gods. And not based on 616 Marvel universe.

So you’re telling me that because he’s Heimdall, guardian of the Bifrost on the planet Asgard in the MCU, rather than Heimdall, guardian of the Bifrost in the realm of Asgard in Norse mythology, he’s in no way a direct goddamn reference to the Norse god and everything is fair game? How does that work? And if that’s all it takes to get away with some creative liberties, how many words in Black Panther’s origin story does one have to change to get away with making him a white king in some isolationist European nation?
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
So you’re telling me that because he’s Heimdall, guardian of the Bifrost on the planet Asgard in the MCU, rather than Heimdall, guardian of the Bifrost in the realm of Asgard in Norse mythology, he’s in no way a direct goddamn reference to the Norse god and everything is fair game? How does that work? And if that’s all it takes to get away with some creative liberties, how many words in Black Panther’s origin story does one have to change to get away with making him a white king in some isolationist European nation?

The MCU isn't the Marvel comics. Different universe. You DO understand, that, right? Marvel comics is 616. MCU doesn't even have mutants yet. Please... And there already is a king of an isolationist european country... Doctor Doom in Latveria.

ETA: Marvel is largely a white world... Almost all of the important heroes and villains are white. The black, Asian, Latino, indigenous and etc characters are mostly side characters with a few exceptions.
 
Last edited:

ExpandKong

Banned
The MCU isn't the Marvel comics. Different universe. You DO understand, that, right? Marvel comics is 616. MCU doesn't even have mutants yet. Please... And there already is a king of an isolationist european country... Doctor Doom in Latveria.

ETA: Marvel is largely a white world... Almost all of the important heroes and villains are white. The black, Asian, Latino, indigenous and etc characters are mostly side characters with a few exceptions.

I get that, of course, but I don’t see what effect that distinction has on the point that both MCU Heimdall and 616 Heimdall are based on the very white god Heimdall from very white Norse mythology.

I’m not seriously arguing that there should be a white Black Panther, I was just wondering why one way is okay and the other isn’t. But you shared some examples earlier of it going the other way, so it’s kind of a moot point.

It does seem to be happening a lot lately, though, and it’s particularly noticeable now that there’s a huge push for minority actors to portray minority characters. Characters like Ariel and Tinkerbell may be fictional, but you can’t really pretend that they don’t have well-established appearances.

You got me thinking now though about Black Panther and Doctor Doom switching places for a miniseries, hahah.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
I get that, of course, but I don’t see what effect that distinction has on the point that both MCU Heimdall and 616 Heimdall are based on the very white god Heimdall from very white Norse mythology.

I’m not seriously arguing that there should be a white Black Panther, I was just wondering why one way is okay and the other isn’t. But you shared some examples earlier of it going the other way, so it’s kind of a moot point.

It does seem to be happening a lot lately, though, and it’s particularly noticeable now that there’s a huge push for minority actors to portray minority characters. Characters like Ariel and Tinkerbell may be fictional, but you can’t really pretend that they don’t have well-established appearances.

You got me thinking now though about Black Panther and Doctor Doom switching places for a miniseries, hahah.

I want Doctor Doom to face off against Shuri, the new Black Panther... I'm pretty sure that's what Marvel is doing since King Chadwick passed away last month. :messenger_crying:
 
Only thing is... These are aliens. Not Norse gods. And not based on 616 Marvel universe.


Angelina Jolie in both Wanted and A Mighty Heart (playing the real life Marianne Pearl) , Ben Affleck in Argo (playing a real life latino man named Tony Mendez), Emma Stone in Aloha... There are others but I can't think of them right now. These are all within the last decade. That's not even TRYING to mention The Last Airbender...

Oh! And that movie, I think called, 21. It was based on the real life team of card counting college students who were all or mostly Asian American... But who were instead racebent to be all white ... While still touting itself as "the true story".
Because I knew the reason behind the wanted casting*, I looked the rest up too.

In A Mighty Heart, Marianne Pearl actually chose Jolie to play her, and said the race controversy was stupid. Plus finding another Afro-Chinese-Cuban-Dutch woman to accurately play her to not be 'racebending' would have been prohibitively stupid.

Argo is purely Director Ben Affleck's ego and pet project. He made the film because he wanted to play the character. He wasn't whitewashing, just full of himself.

(Plus there's also the whole 'latinos not being white' thing that's always been hilarious to me as a European, since it's the descendents of Northern and Southern European colonists somehow ending up thinking they're different races to one another.)

Emma Stone might not be half white, a quater oriental and a quarter haitian, but she is fair skinned and ginger enough to accurately portray the fair skinned and ginger Captain Allison Ng

vo2vslx.jpg


21 I will give you, however it was well over a decade ago (2008) and the main character's actor wasn't even American, since they cast a Brit, so goodness know what the thought process behind the casting was there.

The guy he was playing's reaction was hilariously xenophobic though: "I would have been a lot more insulted if they had chosen someone who was Japanese or Korean, just to have an Asian playing me."

So yeah, not exactly a damning endictment of systemic racism in Hollywood casting, being a common source of whitewashing, and certainly not in recent years.

Now if you want to argue that the modern media hates gingers, there's far more evidence that there's actually deliberate intent behind it.

8KqG8Vx.jpg

(Sorry for the silly writing, it was the first high res version of the meme I found and I'm lazy)

*which incidentally was because Fox in the comics wasn't 'a' black woman, it was specifically Halle Berry (as her awful Catwoman) , who turned the role down. Jolie was asked because that was the original writers second choice. Also they racebent the main villain to be black by casting Morgan Freeman, so it was a wash overall.

Plus that is not an accurate adaptation even slightly.

There's a point in the comics where the main character, as part of his training, kidnaps and repeatedly rapes what is very obviously Britney Spears to the point he gets 'rape exhaustion' before murdering her.

It was originally meant to be a DC Elseworlds comic, but it was far to edgy for DC, so the names are just changed, but it's super obvious who the characters are meant to be (Fox is literally just Catwoman).
 
Last edited:

Stryda

Banned
Wow. Didn’t know this was coming. Really looking forward to this. Disney is quickly becoming the most progressive company in Hollywood in giving talented POC a chance.

Let’s see what the rest of Hollywood do.
 

Kimahri

Banned
Wow. Didn’t know this was coming. Really looking forward to this. Disney is quickly becoming the most progressive company in Hollywood in giving talented POC a chance.

Let’s see what the rest of Hollywood do.

We can only hope they hire some writers with talent and ideas to create some good stories instead of violating the past over and over again.
 

Stryda

Banned
Yeah, hopefully they get more diversity behind the camera too. Bored of the same old tropes being used.

I guess Black Panther and Ms Marvel opened their eyes that the US demographics are changing. It’s not the 50s no more!
 

oagboghi2

Member
Yeah, hopefully they get more diversity behind the camera too. Bored of the same old tropes being used.



I guess Black Panther and Ms Marvel opened their eyes that the US demographics are changing. It’s not the 50s no more!

😂 It's Peter Pan

"But they got a black guy holding a camera. That changes everything."

That’s not very funny video no matter what side of the argument you are on.
Clearly you don't take pride in your work
 
Last edited:

Dacon

Banned
Disney does know other races exist outside black people right?

Why whenever anyone feels the need to fill out the diversity quota by changing character races, are black people their go to?
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
Its not that i dont like them i just dont want any other ethnic group in my country. We already have a population of Russians who are 25% of our demographics, and after Ukraine....thats more than enough

Dang. I know some of the history between Latvians and Russians. I understand now. My bad.
 

Cybrwzrd

Banned
Why can’t Disney tell new stories with POC, instead of brown washing old stories?

I’ll hazard a guess, that they either can’t get or are afraid that they can’t get people to watch new stories with unfamiliar characters not based on western culture.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Why can’t Disney tell new stories with POC, instead of brown washing old stories?

I’ll hazard a guess, that they either can’t get or are afraid that they can’t get people to watch new stories with unfamiliar characters not based on western culture.
Because the last time they tried something original we had the new star wars trilogy...
 

sol_bad

Member
That was something original?

If you are talking Disney and original than look at the Pixar films. As for Disney Animation Studios themselves they have made Moana, Zootopia and Wreck-it-Ralph as original stories. Disney in a nutshell is about adapting classics, they have generally never been about creating new and original stories.

Can you think of any classical literature that can be adapted into a kids film by black authors?
 
Can you think of any classical literature that can be adapted into a kids film by black authors?
I would assume Africa, the Middle East, and Asia all have their own fables and tales to adapt. Maybe part of the issue is that Disney keeps pilfering the same source material, and that material is from classical western authors.
 

DeafTourette

Perpetually Offended
Disney could do Anansi, The Monkey King, 47 Ronin, The Last Samurai, or any of the MANY folk tales from around the world... But nope.

I obviously don't have a problem with this casting as I've posted as such... But thinking about it... There are Caribbean, African, Indian, Native American, latino and a cornucopia of Asian cultural folk tales they could "kidify" and make into new animated or live action movies...
 
Top Bottom