-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Yet another tipping thread...
- Thread starter weepy
- Start date
- Status
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
You don't know anything about this topic.shintoki said:
pistolpete2940
Member
The other day, a couple of friends and I were at Applebees. The waitress kept coming to the table asking for the check or whatever, and we're like, "Relax, we're gonna pay". Now, I dont know if she was rushing us because they needed the table or what (Times Sq. busy at all times). I think she thought we were trying to dine and dash or something. Bitch damn near made me leave my phone at the restaurant.
Ended up tipping her anyway because it was included in the bill. We are obligated to tip when its on the bill, right?
Ended up tipping her anyway because it was included in the bill. We are obligated to tip when its on the bill, right?
cartoon_soldier
Member
I would still tip, but reduce the tip amount. If you want a 15% tip from me, better give me good service.
Chefs have higher base salaries than the wait-staff. But if you want to give them something extra, go nuts.LQX said:
Up-front you know that certain workers earn shitty wages and supplement their incomes with tips. You know what western tipping customs are before you eat at a restaurant or ride in a cab. I fail to see why the distinction you created is important while the huge difference in salaries isn't.LQX said:
That's a great counter-argument. If there is any decision, it's often between working a shitty, low-paying job or not working at all.LQX said:
So some servers make decent money off of tips, and. . . . ?LQX said:
Except I did everything the job had to offer without getting tips... It was my former job that ended up getting me sick and forcing me to quit:lolLiu Kang Baking A Pie said:
As I said, if the tips are spread out through the staff. Then I agree with you. Bus boys and others who serve the customer should get in on it also. I believe you should tip even if the waiter is shitty.
But when it's just the waiter receiving the tips and the rest of the staff being out of it. If the waiter is being shitty. You tipping them or not isn't going to hurt them in the long run. They'll make far more than that bus boy or cook in the back. There is only a 3-4$ dollar difference per hour between min wage and what the waiter normally received. But all this is definitely from my own experience. Where waiters had no problem saying how they aren't making enough when they took home 150+$ that Saturday night, and 125$+ that Friday. Normally a sold 30-40$ even on the worst days.
But I also know, The place I worked at was completely fucked up. So I wouldn't be shocked if my experience is allot different from yours :lol
KHarvey16 said:
The minimum wage may be different, but I don't see a statement that says that tips are accounted within the makeup of that minimum wage. In fact it states otherwise and the amount of pay is directly comparable to BC, while the minimum wage otherwise in Quebec is among Canada's highest.
TitaniumGroceries
Banned
On the books, I make $2.33 an hour. So yeah, Waiters do make well below minimum wage, if people are bad tippers.shintoki said:
What is "shit service?" Food coming out late? Waiters don't control that. They're not at your table every thirty seconds to give you a free drink refill? Check their section, because they're carrying eight other tables on their backs.
90% of the time, the only thing Waiters can control is how they treat you and if they take your complete order. Since orders are rung in through a computer, and often times little modifiers (no pickles, etc...) get rung in manually, the kitchen can overlook those and sorry, your burger has pickles on it, but it's not the Waiter's fault the kitchen made the standard dish.
Unless the restaurant is slow. Then they're cleaning the building for long periods of time for around $3/hour. And credit card tips are logged by computers, and even if you're all cash tips, you have to declare 10% of total sales. So if you got tips that equate to %9 of your sales that day, sorry. You have to be taxed for 10%.
Everyone, tip the people who serve you.
KHarvey16 said:
In Quebec maybe but the situation is not true elsewhere in Canada and even then, the decreased 'minimum wage' of $8 for tip earners in Quebec is equal to the minimum wage of all earners in BC, namely because Quebecors get one of the highest in Canada.
Even Alberta doesn't have a $9.00 minimum wage, despite the massive cost of living in cities like Calgary or the economic powerhouse it boasts relative to everywhere else in Canada.
According to Statscan: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/studies-etudes/75-001/comm/5018829-eng.pdf
Minimum wage earners also earn relative to their education level, age and experience, and lifestyle.
I see no argument here that people on 'Minimum Wage' need tips. Even more so when minimum wage earners would trend to the lower portion of the economic scale and would already be the subject of some form of social assistance through tax credits or tax breaks.
Edit: Those arguing from the US border who earn $2/hour because minimum wage is supposed to boost them up to minimum wage are a different story, but don't expect others to fix your broken domestic policies.
KHarvey16 said:
Right, but based on this thread, it seems like there's a cultural expectation to pay a certain fixed percentage to a waiter regardless of the quality of the service. I think it would be preferable to have this percentage built into the price of the meal. If the service is exceptional, nothing is stopping the patron from leaving something extra as a tip.
I just think it's silly for the patron to be expected to cover the wage of the worker directly out of pocket. It results in an inequity in pricing wherein those who do tip are paying more for the same meal than those who do not. Having the cost built in would mean that the cost of labor was distributed evenly among the customers.
Of course, I realize there is too much social inertia for me to change the system outright, so I'm not going to make a point of not tipping just to take a stand or something like that. But I still feel justified in airing my grievances on internet forums.
I love tip threads for all the cheapness disguised as principle. Tipping is one of the few phenomena that essentially institutionalizes the honor system. In a way, it's what you do when you're not under any obligation that defines your character.
That's not to say that you have to tip well when the service is poor, but to rule out tipping altogether (provided you're in a country where tipping is customary) is pitiful behavior.
That's not to say that you have to tip well when the service is poor, but to rule out tipping altogether (provided you're in a country where tipping is customary) is pitiful behavior.
KHarvey16 said:
Minimum wage is a dollar less with a job that tips. Its 9 dollars an hour if you don't get tips, and 8 if you do.
If you work a 10 hour shift (for easy maths sake)
That's 90 dollars without tips
And 80 dollars with tips.
What are the odds that you are going to make 10 dollars in tips in 10 hours - even if you only get tipped like.... twice the entire day?
You are right that they get paid less (Well not necessarily, but they CAN get paid less) - but the difference is so insubstantial that I should not feel obligated to tip for bad service, or even good service from the looks of it - I live in Ontario and there doesn't seem to be a wage difference.
Salmonax said:
So because it is customary to give people my money for no good reason, I should keep it up? I barely make above minimum wage myself, I'm a young broke person. Why am I going out of my way to help someone make more money than me?
Kool Aid said:
I don't understand your point. If someone doesn't tip that doesn't mean the next person has to cover for them. If someone feels comfortable not tipping all I can say is I'm glad most don't feel that way. And I don't think many would say you need to tip the same no matter what, in fact I think the consensus here is that you tip based on quality. Someone who is rude and unfriendly shouldn't make as much as someone who is personable and good at their job.
Kinitari said:
And as I said to the other poster, you go right ahead and refuse to tip if that makes you feel better. I think people deserve to earn a fair wage and I put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. If I can't afford to tip I can't afford to eat out.
Atrus said:
In Manitoba and Ontario "liquor servers," waiters and bartenders, receive less than the regular minimum wage.
Atrus said:
Why would this be important in determining what a fair minimum wage should be when a person's income affects what his or her lifestyle is You're being circular.
I also don't see the relevancy of age.
Unfortunately, yes; you should keep it up. Tipping is just built into the financial structure of the restaurant business, at least in the United States. It's a weird system and objectively it's too bad restaurants don't just build the tip into the wages of their servers and raise the price of their food, but for whatever reason things just evolved this way.Kinitari said:
Obviously there's nothing in place to enforce any of this - if you're broke and just can't afford to tip, nobody's going to come after you. But it could be argued that while you're broke, you should eat like you're broke rather than spreading the pain along to servers trying to make a living.
I've just gotten off a 12 hour shift at midnight, and I start bartending again at 7:30am. I started reading this thread on the bus home, and I had to stop because I literally would not be able to sleep if I let the cheapskate douchebags here get to me, but right now I just have to say this... Serving and bartending is no more "just carrying a plate to people or handing them a bottle" than prostitution is "just lying in a bed with your legs in the air". You are selling a part of your soul.
And for the fucken record:
- I am Australian
- I live in Toronto
- I think the non North American system of paying a living minimum wage to everyone is much much much better than the way the US and Canada operate.
- This is never an excuse not to tip in the US or Canada.
- If you ever leave less than 10% on a bill, or tip less than $1 a drink, you are a bad customer. No ifs ands or buts.
- Bad things happen to bad customers. Hope you don't leave anything behind, come back to that establishment again, or come back to an establishment that employee moves on to. People move around a lot in this industry.
- If you really have a bad experience, and I'm not talking about not getting the proper number of fucken refilled pops your fat arse believes it is entitled to for $2.50, talk to a goddamn manager. That way something will actually get done about the problem
- I bartend and wait to pay bills, I am a semi-professional standup comedian. Ha motherfucking ha.
Jesus, I fucken swore to myself I wasn't going to reply to this shit... Fuck...
And for the fucken record:
- I am Australian
- I live in Toronto
- I think the non North American system of paying a living minimum wage to everyone is much much much better than the way the US and Canada operate.
- This is never an excuse not to tip in the US or Canada.
- If you ever leave less than 10% on a bill, or tip less than $1 a drink, you are a bad customer. No ifs ands or buts.
- Bad things happen to bad customers. Hope you don't leave anything behind, come back to that establishment again, or come back to an establishment that employee moves on to. People move around a lot in this industry.
- If you really have a bad experience, and I'm not talking about not getting the proper number of fucken refilled pops your fat arse believes it is entitled to for $2.50, talk to a goddamn manager. That way something will actually get done about the problem
- I bartend and wait to pay bills, I am a semi-professional standup comedian. Ha motherfucking ha.
Jesus, I fucken swore to myself I wasn't going to reply to this shit... Fuck...
Salmonax said:
So if I'm broke but one day I wanna go eat something better than, say, fast-food, I can't because I SHOULD eat like I'm broke? What the fuck kind of stupid way of thinking is that? Nobody is gonna fucking tell me where to eat, and if I wanna give tips or not.
powerCAPS said:
WTF? Why would I have to keep tipping $1 for a drink? That's fucking retarded. If you did an outstanding job, I MIGHT tip you, otherwise screw that.
KHarvey16 said:
If one person does tip and the other doesn't, then that means that one person is paying disproportionately more for the service than the other. The same problems exists if one person chooses to tip at a lower percentage than another for reasons unrelated to quality of service.
Right, but therein lies another problem with the institution of tipping as it exists. The set rate at which one is expected to pay for good, average, or bad service is rather ambiguous. This results in fluctuation in the wages that a server might receive. If the price is built into the cost of the meal, then the wages are much more consistent.
Tipping should just be a normal thing that decent people do for service provided. Unless it was absolutely awful, I see no reason why you shouldn't put down at least a couple bucks on the table after a good meal.
Most excuses for why you shouldn't tip are nothing more than just... excuses. Just admit you're cheap and move on.
Get your priorities straight. If you're so fucking broke that you can't afford to tip three or so bucks (and it shouldn't be more than that for a decent fifteen-dollar meal at Chile's or something, and if it costs more, you shouldn't be going there in the first place when YOU'RE FUCKING BROKE), then just suck it up and eat fast food or cook at home or something.
Most excuses for why you shouldn't tip are nothing more than just... excuses. Just admit you're cheap and move on.
Mik2121 said:
Get your priorities straight. If you're so fucking broke that you can't afford to tip three or so bucks (and it shouldn't be more than that for a decent fifteen-dollar meal at Chile's or something, and if it costs more, you shouldn't be going there in the first place when YOU'RE FUCKING BROKE), then just suck it up and eat fast food or cook at home or something.
Mik2121 said:
No, if you're broke and a sandwich in a restaurant sells for $8.99 and you have $9, you literally DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY to pay for that sandwich, because service is not included in the bill. It's shitty and crazy I know. But that is the motherfucking way that it is. It's the same with taxes. If tax is not included in the advertised price, you can't fucking choose not to pay it.
Of course, these sorts of discussions only apply in North America. You people know that right? Cause if you're in the western world outside of North America and talking about how you hate tipping, without disclosing where you live, you are just baiting people for a fight that doesn't need to happen. No one is arguing for waiters to be tipped in Australia. Why? Because the minimum fucking wage is $14.50 an hour, and you'd be hard pressed to find a waiter making less than $20. AUSTRALIA AND EUROPE THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT YOU.
KHarvey16 said:
If I enjoyed the meal and the service was quite good, I don't have any problems tipping as I said, but otherwise why the hell would I need to pay? If the waiter doesn't make enough money for living, that's not my problem, that's a problem with the manager of the restaurant.
powerCAPS said:
Of course if I was really broke (I'm not) I wouldn't go to an expensive place to begin with, but someone might, and I don't see why that person should be expected to tip.
But now that you talk about the retarded taxes not included in the US prices, I remember now that US is quite fucked up when it comes to all that stuff, so I guess I'll give up, North Americans tend to not understand why taxes are expected to be added on the price and why tipping isn't needed.
And "western world outside of NA"? But you are excluding Europe.. so what does that leave you, South America? I have friends in Argentina who don't like tipping and they don't tip at restaurants and they have never had a problem as far as I know.
Also, I'm neither in Australia nor Europe, and here the concept of tipping doesn't even EXIST.
Mik2121 said:
If you tip less than $1 on your first drink, that had better be your only drink. And if so, whatever I don't care, not a big hassle on my night to have some loser cheapskate order 1 drink and stiff me. You need the dollar more than me. But if you order another... in some way or another, you will not get what you ordered. I promise you that.
KHarvey16 said:
I'm not saying that no tipping should exist, however. I'm just saying that whatever baseline percentage that a patron is culturally expected to pay should be included within the cost of the meal. If the quality of the service is exceptional, then the customer can opt to pay extra.
KHarvey16 said:
I didn't say I can't afford the tip, I just don't think it's something needed and it's some sort of extra money you are giving if you enjoyed the food and the service, otherwise no.
And I'm not entitled to a restaurant meal? That's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. You think a restaurant would rather not serve me (say I'm paying $30 for the food) just because I don't give them $5 on tips? Really? What are you, 10 years old? :lol :lol
And trust me, I'm not an asshole at all. In fact I'm quite a nice person, I just don't see the need to give tips always. I will tip if I get a really nice service and nice food.
Kool Aid said:
It sounds like you're just mad other people get to pay less because they're jerks. Trust me, it's not worth it
.Mik2121 said:
If you can afford a tip and, unless the server is rude or just terrible, you don't give one then yes, you are being an asshole. Also, look up what entitled means.
malek4980 said:
Chosen lifestyle. As indicated in the stats report, most minimum wage earners in Canada are women, then youths, then senior citizens. Most also live with their parents and boast little to no education, and over 60% of minimum wage workers do so part-time.
So you've in proportion you've got women with little to no education, young people paying for an education, in trasition to high school or dropouts, or senior citizens who need something to do or apparently saved nothing for retirement.
Students and Seniors make due with tax credits, women can do so if they have children and are otherwise homemakers (which is likely the case for such a high female representation and the high incidence of part-time workers).
So the question is, why should they have to be paid more in addition to the minimum wage and other social benefits already accorded to them for being at the very bottom? What is so special about this demographic?
Mik2121 said:
So you live in South America? I have no idea what your customs re tipping are there. I come from a country where you don't tip either, in Australia I would generally expect change from a $10 bill on a $9.90 sandwich. BUT THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT TIPPING OUTSIDE OF NORTH AMERICA. You're just instigating a fight for no reason.
So you tip any person who does his job well done, not just waiters, I guess? Quite nice of you!KHarvey16 said:
Because if a waiter is entitled to fair compensation for a job well done, then same goes for any other kind of job.powerCAPS said:
No, I don't live in South America.
And this thread isn't about tipping outside of North America. As far as I know the OP didn't say so, so yeah...
hulkamania-owns-you
Banned
hulkster says i don't tip!
i hate the system and fight back when i can.
i go to a buffet and get as many drink refills as i can, even after i am full.
after they give me the check and go setup another table is when i make my exit.
but not until i fill atleast a couple of plastic containers with food that will make it home and can be reheated. some cold salad if you live close to home is a good choice
i wear a jacket year round inside the buffet, with inside pockets to hold the containers. before i leave i put them in the pockets, fold over the jacket, and hold it at my side as i exit.
i hate the system and fight back when i can.
i go to a buffet and get as many drink refills as i can, even after i am full.
after they give me the check and go setup another table is when i make my exit.
but not until i fill atleast a couple of plastic containers with food that will make it home and can be reheated. some cold salad if you live close to home is a good choice
i wear a jacket year round inside the buffet, with inside pockets to hold the containers. before i leave i put them in the pockets, fold over the jacket, and hold it at my side as i exit.
Mik2121 said:So you tip any person who does his job well done, not just waiters, I guess? Quite nice of you!
Other jobs at least pay minimum wage everywhere. If you do actually live in a country where this is not true and servers earn a decent living without tips, as powerCAPS has said I have no idea why the hell you'd participate in this discussion.
Sadako Yamamura
Member
I don't think we should be putting any blame with those who choose not to tip or those who choose to work in these low paying jobs. I think the blame should be placed fairly and squarely with the authorities who allow a system such as this exist. For a modern, first world country, this system of paying under minimum wage and expecting the customer to make up the rest surely seems quite absurd to me. Are there any other countries (first world countries that is) that have such a unfair system?
- Status