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[Kinitari]

Is that really that much to you?

Entry level positions at my company as well as what I see in ads are offering around $15 an hour, and that's for skilled web development work. A bartender losing his night life to make $20 an hour to make drinks for a bunch of drunks seems appropriate to me.

He's making 20 bucks on top of his 9 dollars an hour. Maybe more maybe less - but yeah, that is a lot of money. More than enough to not feel like the money is owed to you. More than enough for me to not feel guilty if I don't give you that dollar.

At 25 hours a week, he's be making 37,000 before taxes.

 

[Mik2121]

Bartenders make bank. It's a tough job though.

I've worked as a bartender as well, actually From 11 at night to 5 and had class at 9, and got paid $8. I admit I had a lot of fun though, so I never said anything (we had some nice darts stands with screens and all that, and we played with costumers to get them to enjoy and order more stuff)

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

He's making 20 bucks on top of his 9 dollars an hour. Maybe more maybe less - but yeah, that is a lot of money. More than enough to not feel like the money is owed to you. More than enough for me to not feel guilty if I don't give you that dollar.

At 25 hours a week, he's be making 37,000 before taxes.

And if everyone thought this way and no one tipped, he wouldn't be making that money.

See how it works?

 

[powerCAPS]

You expect $1 for something that took you one minute to prepare at most?

If you work on a very busy bar where you are making drinks every couple minutes, you must be getting more than enough for living. Dang..

Fuck you buddy. It's not like I turn up, open a bottle, take my dollar and chill out on a beanbag until the next sucker. I'm there hours before the bar opens and hours after it closes. Cleaning the bar to the point of sterilization, preparing dozens of ingredients, changing kegs, moving kegs, restocking hundreds of different beers wines and spirits, learning drink recipes, polishing glasses. It may look to you like I'm just opening that bottle. But who unloaded that bottle off a truck, and kept it cold in storage, then carried it out to wait for you in the bar fridge, then cleared it away when you were done, and carried to back to recycling at the end of the night?

 

[Guled]

Why shouldn't he if you ain't going to tip? Hes got 50 more people to serve who are tipping him why should he bend over backwards for you to get you your drink in a timely manner. His services are being used by people who want them.

this is what he said

- If you ever leave less than 10% on a bill, or tip less than $1 a drink, you are a bad customer. No ifs ands or buts.
- Bad things happen to bad customers. Hope you don't leave anything behind, come back to that establishment again, or come back to an establishment that employee moves on to. People move around a lot in this industry.

if you think its ok for them to do shit to your drink because you don't tip, then I don't know what to say

 

[Mik2121]

Fuck you buddy. It's not like I turn up, open a bottle, take my dollar and chill out on a beanbag until the next sucker. I'm there hours before the bar opens and hours after it closes. Cleaning the bar to the point of sterilization, preparing dozens of ingredients, changing kegs, moving kegs, restocking hundreds of different beers wines and spirits, learning drink recipes, polishing glasses. It may look to you like I'm just opening that bottle. But who unloaded that bottle off a truck, and kept it cold in storage, then carried it out to wait for you in the bar fridge, then cleared it away when you were done, and carried to back to recycling at the end of the night?

As I said, I've worked on a bar as well. And again, you are working to do THAT

 

[TurboLibre]

I dunno, certain posters in this thread have made it certain that such things occur on a regular basis if the server doesn't get his tip.

They talk a big game, but I'd wager they've never gone through with it. Why risk your job and a lawsuit over how much someone tips? I'm sure it happens, but there's no way it's a regular thing. It's probably about as common as those horror stories you hear about fast food.

 

[ahoyhoy]

If someone does a really really shitty job I leave all the change in my pockets. I fucking hate change.

That's actually exactly what some friends did at a shitty 24 hour diner near us. Apparently the waitress was mean and unnattentive, the service was slow, and the food was still cold when they got it. One of them got the idea to simply tip in change, so they all emptied their pockets to what actually amounted to be around 15% in mostly pennies and nickles. As they were leaving, the waitress ran out to meet them and threw the change at them.

Haven't been there since.

 

[SnakeXs]

You expect $1 for something that took you one minute to prepare at most?

If you work on a very busy bar where you are making drinks every couple minutes, you must be getting more than enough for living. Dang..

If you're working at a busy bar you're busting your ass. If you're working at a busy bar you're tipping out and/or splitting your tips, the former of which quite handsomely for a barback that's on top of shit and knows what's going on. If you're at a busy bar you know what most people are drinking without them telling you.

I fucking the mentality that some people have that a bartender's job is simply opening bottles.

 

[Kinitari]

And if everyone thought this way and no one tipped, he wouldn't be making that money.

See how it works?

To be completely honest, who cares? If he is making minimum wage, why does the burden fall on me to make sure he is making more than minimum wage? Because he works late? His is the only profession that requires overnights? Or because there is a social obligation for no real reason, other than that's just the way it is?

 

[powerCAPS]

this is what he said

if you think its ok for them to do shit to your drink because you don't tip, then I don't know what to say

Like I said, one drink and you stiff me, whatever. If you think you can keep ordering though, or coming back night after night, and not pay for service... you're out of your fucken mind.

Bartending generally has the advantage of if people are paying drink by drink, you can at least see the cheapskates early and treat them accordingly. It's serving tables and tabs where you get screwed without knowing it.

 

[powerCAPS]

As I said, I've worked on a bar as well. And again, you are working to do THAT

Yeah no shit, and I make decent money because of the tips I receive.

 

[TurboLibre]

Like I said, one drink and you stiff me, whatever. If you think you can keep ordering though, or coming back night after night, and not pay for service... you're out of your fucken mind.

Bartending generally has the advantage of if people are paying drink by drink, you can at least see the cheapskates early and treat them accordingly. It's serving tables and tabs where you get screwed without knowing it.

What do you do if they set up a tab?

 

[SnakeXs]

To be completely honest, who cares? If he is making minimum wage, why does the burden fall on me to make sure he is making more than minimum wage? Because he works late? His is the only profession that requires overnights? Or because there is a social obligation for no real reason, other than that's just the way it is?

Alright fine your drink now costs twice what it used to to compensate him equally, except now you have no say in giving a guy who deserves more or less anything different.

 

[Mik2121]

Like I said, one drink and you stiff me, whatever. If you think you can keep ordering though, or coming back night after night, and not pay for service... you're out of your fucken mind.

Bartending generally has the advantage of if people are paying drink by drink, you can at least see the cheapskates early and treat them accordingly. It's serving tables and tabs where you get screwed without knowing it.

Then you better never leave the US, because anywhere else you will get paid the same money and you will get no tips

 

[Big-E]

if you think its ok for them to do shit to your drink because you don't tip, then I don't know what to say

I don't like cheap people so the fact that something may happen to a cheap persons drink does not make me lose sleep as it is probably deserved.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

To be completely honest, who cares? If he is making minimum wage, why does the burden fall on me to make sure he is making more than minimum wage? Because he works late? His is the only profession that requires overnights? Or because there is a social obligation for no real reason, other than that's just the way it is?

Generally, social customs are well accepted within the social boundaries where it is a custom.

Like a lot of us keep saying, these tipping threads just go on forever because cheap asses just can't stand being called out on being cheap asses. Eventually a good tipper will say something hyperbolic and extreme like "I never tip less than 25%!" and the cheap asses cling to that fucking argument for 20 pages like it was a life raft.

 

[Mik2121]

I don't like cheap people so the fact that something may happen to a cheap persons drink does not make me lose sleep as it is probably deserved.

Your way of thinking is quite retarded if you ask me. Ever went outside of the US?.

 

[Kinitari]

Alright fine your drink now costs twice what it used to to compensate him equally, except now you have no say in giving a guy who deserves more or less anything different.

To be completely honest, I am a broke broke young man who is saving up to go to college. I don't go to bars. I rarely drink as it is. But if for some reason - I had to pay this man the same amount regardless, why wouldn't I prefer it to be all upfront?

 

[powerCAPS]

To be completely honest, who cares? If he is making minimum wage, why does the burden fall on me to make sure he is making more than minimum wage? Because he works late? His is the only profession that requires overnights? Or because there is a social obligation for no real reason, other than that's just the way it is?

Yes. Because that is just the way that it is. Here. In North America. At the end of the day, this is the way that it is, and one bad tip is not going to bankrupt a server and one bad service experience is not going to kill a customer, but why not try and avoid both by working within the customs of this society?

 

[SnakeXs]

To be completely honest, I am a broke broke young man who is saving up to go to college. I don't go to bars. I rarely drink as it is. But if for some reason - I had to pay this man the same amount regardless, why wouldn't I prefer it to be all upfront?

So you'd rather the attentive guy who had a drink ready for you before you asked, and the asshole who ignored you for 5 minutes get the same amount of money?

Well if that works for you, swell.

 

[powerCAPS]

Then you better never leave the US, because anywhere else you will get paid the same money and you will get no tips

Thanks professor.

 

[Big-E]

Your way of thinking is quite retarded if you ask me. Ever went outside of the US?.

I am Canadian and have been to France and when I was there gratuity was on the bill so I don't really have much to say if gratuity is on the bill. Most people in this thread are talking about North America where tipping is a social custom so it is expected to tip here and you are cheap if you don't.

 

[Kinitari]

Generally, social customs are well accepted within the social boundaries where it is a custom.

Like a lot of us keep saying, these tipping threads just go on forever because cheap asses just can't stand being called out on being cheap asses. Eventually a good tipper will say something hyperbolic and extreme like "I never tip less than 25%!" and the cheap asses cling to that fucking argument for 20 pages like it was a life raft.

I don't think anyone has done that here. This has been almost entirely about the merit of tipping in itself, the broken system, and the feeling of obligation and threat. All, which I think, are pretty substantial topics.

Also, there is obviously a difference between the different systems in different countries, in Canada, there is even less of a reason to tip short of "just because" - the wage of the employees isn't 2-3 dollars or anything ridiculous like that.

Me personally? I tip good waiters, and I never drink at bars - I am broke as shit and could not afford the like... 6 dollar drinks as it is.

 

[TurboLibre]

if you think its ok for them to do shit to your drink because you don't tip, then I don't know what to say

From his posts in this thread it doesn't sound like he's messing with their drinks. I'm getting the impression he just sets the customers who don't tip to a low priority. Serve the people who tip first, and when they're done, then you help the people who don't tip.

 

[Mik2121]

Thanks professor.

I think this will never end. I don't know about anybody else defending not tipping, but in my case it's because where I live it's not expected and you might only tip if the job was excellent, but I can understand that people in NA might expect tips always.

Though I keep saying I would rather just have the tip included on whatever I'm ordering so I know what I'm paying. If because of that, I have to pay extra money, alright. But then the meaning of the 'tip' gets lost.

 

[Guled]

I don't like cheap people so the fact that something may happen to a cheap persons drink does not make me lose sleep as it is probably deserved.

And I don't lose sleep over the fact that they get paid under min wage. I still will hold on to my principles. I don't care if you think I'm cheap or whatever, but I only tip to great service, not just people who are doing their job. But in all honestly, other then the fact that he is willing to mess with ppls drinks, powerCAPS dose seem like a cool guy who would deserve a tip. Most people don't do all the extra things he was talking about earlier, and they also expect tips. Its the whole idea that you must give them a tip no matter what that I have a huge problem with

 

[Salazar]

Australia. I'll tip at cafés but not at restaurants.

 

[Kinitari]

So you'd rather the attentive guy who had a drink ready for you before you asked, and the asshole who ignored you for 5 minutes get the same amount of money?

Well if that works for you, swell.

Your implication is that the only reason bar tenders and waiters work as hard as they do is because they need to... fight for their money? If they did not have to do good work, they just wouldn't? I don't even know how you know that - sounds like that person would just get fired.

 

[powerCAPS]

Ok, I didn't think I would but I feel better for having vented. I'm going to bed now. Enjoy your thread.

 

[Kinitari]

its almost 4am here and I work in the morning (a tipless customer service job just above minimum wage, huzzah) - so I am out too - I figure everyone knows my stance by now.

 

[Yeef]

Curiously, at the same time they also go ahead and assume that whatever courtesy the waitstaff extends to you is a part of their job that's compensated for by their relatively meager wages, which it often isn't the case when you consider that waiting often ranks amongst the most stressful jobs out there. Is that necessarily the customer's problem? No. However, it's a fundamentally basic social routine to be a little courteous to those who are so courteous to you.

This strikes me as a chicken and egg sort of thing. I would think that if the waitstaff didn't live and die on tips it'd be a less stressful position.

 

[Mik2121]

Good night. I have stuff to do as well, so I'm leaving this thread too. I'm doing a game for the iPod and I'm not getting paid at all, yay! (then again, it's an school project, lol). It was sorta fun

 

[devilhawk]

There is a difference in tipping a bartender for making shots/mixed drinks and tipping because they took a bottle out of a tub of ice and handed it to you. That's why I get pissed when a bartender expects a dollar on a $2.25 bottle of beer. Especially if I've had to wait to be helped.

Granted almost all of my experience centers around college bars and clubs where the bartenders are serving multiple customers every minute.

 

[KHarvey16]

There is a difference in tipping a bartender for making shots/mixed drinks and tipping because they took a bottle out of a tub of ice and handed it to you. That's why I get pissed when a bartender expects a dollar on a $2.25 bottle of beer. Especially if I've had to wait to be helped.

Granted almost all of my experience centers around college bars and clubs where the bartenders are serving multiple customers every minute.

Woah woah woah woah....you can get beer for $2.25 a bottle!?

 

[Mik2121]

Actually, before I go.. how much is a drink in an average bar in the US?

 

[Atrus]

Atrus you are so full of shit. The whole "My parents did it so everyone can do it" is the stupidest thing one can say. Most people don't have a fucking choice. Can I ask you something? Did you pay 100% for your schooling and I mean 100%. Your parents may have been able to gain money but they sure as hell didn't teach their child empathy.

Actually, yes. In fact I'm still paying for it because as I said, economic wealth is tied into education and mine won't end for a long while yet.

I work 2 professional jobs within the finance and accounting sector. One for a chartered bank and the other for the Canadian government, and in the mean time I'm finishing up an accounting designation, am going to start my MBA in December and after that may go with a CA or Lawschool (if I ever find one that allows me to work and learn).

Do I have empathy? Certainly. I just don't have empathy for the lazy and inept who are subject to their own poor choices. In an capitalist system there are economic winners and losers, but I don't see how people in more advantageous situations fail substantially whilst those in disadvantaged situations succeed so readily.

In my work, I get to see how much each individual makes and their educational history and economic choices. I see people stuck in positions because they have little to no ambition and I see people too lazy to go back to retrain themselves. Canada is a country where people with little education but lots of ambition travel from Newfoundland all the way to Fort McMurray to work for a few years and walk away with 6 to 7 figures.

It's a country where what passes for exceptional work is the idea that you actually do your work, and where the margin for error is not zero.

I save my empathy for the hard workers in countries where the economic situation is impossible to escape. Not for almost free moneyland filled with social safety nets. It's a far better country than most people think it is.

 

[KHarvey16]

Actually, before I go.. how much is a drink in an average bar in the US?

Here the average is about $5. Which is nice since a buck tip per drink works out to be right around the 20% mark.

Actually, yes. In fact I'm still paying for it because as I said, economic wealth is tied into education and mine won't end for a long while yet.

I work 2 professional jobs within the finance and accounting sector. One for a chartered bank and the other for the Canadian government, and in the mean time I'm finishing up an accounting designation, am going to start my MBA in December and after that may go with a CA or Lawschool (if I ever find one that allows me to work and learn).

Do I have empathy? Certainly. I just don't have empathy for the lazy and inept who are subject to their own poor choices. In an capitalist system there are economic winners and losers, but I don't see how people in more advantageous situations fail substantially whilst those in disadvantaged situations succeed so readily.

In my work, I get to see how much each individual makes and their educational history and economic choices. I see people stuck in positions because they have little to no ambition and I see people too lazy to go back to retrain themselves. Canada is a country where people with little education but lots of ambition travel from Newfoundland all the way to Fort McMurray to work for a few years and walk away with 6 to 7 figures.

It's a country where what passes for exceptional work is the idea that you actually do your work, and where the margin for error is not zero.

I save my pity for the hard workers in countries where the economic situation is impossible to escape. Not for almost free moneyland filled with social safety nets. It's a far better country than most people think it is.

Save this post and read it to yourself in 20 years.

 

[devilhawk]

Woah woah woah woah....you can get beer for $2.25 a bottle!?

Yeah college towns. Even where I live now beer is never more than $3.25. Except if I go to downtown KC.

Here the average is about $5. Which is nice since a buck tip per drink works out to be right around the 20% mark.

That's where my issue with $1 tips comes in. When you are only paying $2-4 for a beer or even a double well, it is quite a bit more than a 20% tip

 

[Atrus]

Save this post and read it to yourself in 20 years.

What do you propose will change in 20 years?

 

[KHarvey16]

What do you propose will change in 20 years?

You might have grown up by then.

 

[malek4980]

I hate quote tags

No. You can still not want to and have other options and still need to do it. One of my former co-workers for instance has a Masters in Chemistry but went to work for minimum wage part-time after her daughter was born. She has other options, and doesn't really want to work there because it's a shitty minimum wage job. She just happens to do so because staying at home is lonely and somewhere is just as good as anywhere.

Anecdotal evidence is always great, but I think the number of people who work minimum wage jobs simply to get out of the house is exceedingly small. And I'm sure your friend would prefer to get out of the house and earn a better wage, if she could.

Only if they cry about how they are entitled to additional benefits, that are arbitrarily decided upon. For instance as indicated before, why should waiters get it and check-out sales people don't?

I thought we were strictly arguing about the minimum wage. As for tips, people go into the respective jobs with certain expectations. Maybe it's arbitrary that waiters gets tips and checkout staff don't, but base salaries in those professions are shaped by those expectations as are the available talent pools.

The deductions may not be solely available to minimum wage earners, but minimum wage earners are the ones who can reduce it to a point where they pay no taxes, or put themselves into a refund position quite easily.

These potential deductions aren't that impressive when they don't pay much tax in the first place--because they don't earn much. Being envious of minimum-wage earners because they don't pay much tax is like being envious of bald men because they don't have to buy shampoo. Who cares if they don't pay much tax when they can't afford rent or have to go to a food-bank?

They should. It's the one key factor in significantly improving their economic well being. If they aren't for higher education, then there is always a skilled trade, which arguably also needs some certification.

Again, education isn't for everyone, and some simply aren't attracted to it. But there will always be skilled and unskilled labor jobs. I don't see why the people working these jobs shouldn't at least receive fair, living minimum wages.

If you want to be an economic loser, don't complain about ending up as one.

Pull yourself up by your boot-straps, eh? I can't believe people are still tied to that kind of thinking during this economic shitstorm. Even at the best of times, people often face poor economic prospects because of factors entirely beyond their control.

I was pointing out that by spending less, people on minimum wage have less taxes to pay.

Envying the bald man again?

I also deride the idea that because you're in a situation, that you can't dig yourself out. The idea that you ended up in a particular situation because you had no choice sounds to me like a pathetic, fatalistic excuse. My parents spent most of what they had just traveling to Canada, and they worked from negative equity to well over a million in what... 19 years? Amazingly easy to do in a country like Canada, provided someone isn't inept or lazy.

Some people can; some can't. There are many things that could have prevented your parents from becoming millionaires: accidents, bad health, poor economic conditions. They probably benefited from other things also not within their control. Wealth often is conditional.

Even assuming everyone could in fact become as wealthy as they wanted eventually, why shouldn't they earn a fair, living wage while working during their climb up the ladder? Many students, for example, have to work--like in restaurants--while trying to pay for school.

 

[Atrus]

You might have grown up by then.

Cheap insult that you've used for lack of anything else. As I've said, I've gotten a rather unique opportunity to look into peoples lives and the choices they make, and frankly, people screw it up for themselves.

Hard work, education, and intelligence. That's just about all you need to get by from an economic standpoint, especially in a captalist system that is geared to reward all three.

 

[KHarvey16]

Cheap insult that you've used for lack of anything else. As I've said, I've gotten a rather unique opportunity to look into peoples lives and the choices they make, and frankly, people screw it up for themselves.

Hard work, education, and intelligence. That's just about all you need to get by from an economic standpoint, especially in a captalist system that is geared to reward all three.

It's not a cheap insult. You are naive, and life will teach you that.

 

[cvxfreak]

I don't tip anymore.






...because I live in Japan. Back in the U.S., it's 15 - 20%.

 

[Atrus]

Anecdotal evidence is always great, but I think the number of people who work minimum wage jobs simply to get out of the house is exceedingly small. And I'm sure your friend would prefer to get out of the house and earn a better wage, if she could.

You stated there were only two options, I simply stated another. She's not exactly my friend though, just a co-worker.

I thought we were strictly arguing about the minimum wage. As for tips, people go into the respective jobs with certain expectations. Maybe it's arbitrary that waiters gets tips and checkout staff don't, but base salaries in those professions are shaped by those expectations as are the available talent pools.

Why is it then that waiters are expected to get tips? What service is so special about taking orders and waiting tables when the person really doing the significant work is the cook?

These potential deductions aren't that impressive when they don't pay much tax in the first place--because they don't earn much. Being envious of minimum-wage earners because they don't pay much tax is like being envious of bald men because they don't have to buy shampoo. Who cares if they don't pay much tax when they can't afford rent or have to go to a food-bank?

I'm not envious because they pay much tax, I'm pointing out that I pay more tax that goes for the benefit of all eligible Canadians. I've already provided social assistance, which itself does not count (at least not much) the additional volunteer time or donations I put in.

Tipping as a form of social assistance to minimum wage earners is just absurd.

Again, education isn't for everyone, and some simply aren't attracted to it. But there will always be skilled and unskilled labor jobs. I don't see why the people working these jobs shouldn't at least receive fair, living minimum wages.

Not being attracted to education is to me, is indicative of laziness. Unless you're a genious, are on the coattails of another genious, or come from a background with a large social saftey net that allows you to screw up, then not getting an education is a good way to end up struggling to pay off your 40 year mortgage doing a job you hate, while your stay at home wife takes care of the kids you barely have time to spend with.

As I said, this is something I see all too often. Only the people who educate and retrain break the cycle.

Pull yourself up by your boot-straps, eh? I can't believe people are still tied to that kind of thinking during this economic shitstorm. Even at the best of times, people often face poor economic prospects because of factors entirely beyond their control.

It's only beyond their control because they didn't plan. What good is it to work like that steel mill or GM plant is going to be there forever? You have no time on the side to learn more marketable skills? Even if I lost both jobs now, I still have enough marketable skills to grab a rung on the economic ladder in a wide number of positions because I have marketable skills and have planned for the worst.

What is beyond a persons control is dependant on what they allow to be beyond their control.

Some people can; some can't. There are many things that could have prevented your parents from becoming millionaires: accidents, bad health, poor economic conditions. They probably benefited from other things also not within their control. Wealth often is conditional.

Poor economic conditions still affected my family but they still worked through it. We landed in Montreal expecting to get jobs to pay rent, but there were no jobs. We then moved to AB where my mother, who actually was too poor to finish high school got a job with the Royal Bank where the no tolerance for failure policy at the bank she previously worked at, made her exceptional in comparison.

My father continued his aircraft mechanic position with Air Canada until they downsized, and then Canadian Airlines until they downsized. He then worked in Saskatchewan installing signage. While doing that in another province, he spent his spare time learning computer records keeping. He lost that job when the term was over and went to work for Save on Foods for their computer records keeping. He was then downsized and spent a year without work during which he passed some course about security and records.

He then worked for City of Calgary transit records, then City of Calgary Police, and then went on to make his own business with another employee, only to be hired into the United Farmers Association for Records Management where he works from home, earns a six figure salary and teaches at SAIT as a professor.

This is the same boorish guy whose aircraft college had him chase cows out of the class every morning and who only holds a diploma.

My mother without the highschool diploma and poor english skills? Now speaks and types better than one of my team leaders born and bred in BC, Canada (thanks in part to my Peter and Jane books) and she works as a Senior Financial Analyst despite not having the degrees the junior financial analyst reporting to her does.

There's nothing magical about what they did, aside from not getting hurt too much. Although working as an Aircraft mechanic leaves longstanding injuries that he's now paying for.

Is wealth conditional? Certainly. It's conditional to exploiting available opportunities, and in nations that thrive on capitalistic venture, the opportunities are just about everywhere.

Even assuming everyone could in fact become as wealthy as they wanted eventually, why shouldn't they earn a fair, living wage while working during their climb up the ladder? Many students, for example, have to work--like in restaurants--while trying to pay for school.

Everyone can't become wealthy. The system is designed to advance the people seeking it, and keep those that don't at the bottom. Ever notice these people coming from other countries in droves and working harder because wherever they came from offered them little room to maneuver? That is how the world actually is without the comfort of economic superpower. As the world globalizes, they will compete with you and unless you compete, they will crush you. They already know the importance of education and drive, only because the gaps are much larger where they live and the effects are more prominant.

 

[Dipper145]

I always tip the person even if they do a horrible job. I just feel so bad for the person. Clearly they must be having a horrible day, and just leaving no tip would make them feel worse. I don't know, I just pity the guy who was such a screw up. And sometimes, if they are just late with a delivery or something of that kind, maybe its not their fault.

 

[Ashour]

I can sometimes overlook the fact that the service wasn't that good, unless it's horrible and super slow (like taking an hour for an order I usually get in 10 min). But I will never tip a rude person even if the service was excellent, that I can't tolerate.

 

[Dougald]

No, but we have decent enough minimum wage laws here that I don't feel too guilty if I don't leave a tip for good service (tipping isn't traditionally a part of the British conciousness)

 

[Tokubetsu]

When I first saw this thread title, I thought it was about tipping cows :lol