ZephyrFate
Banned
But, but, but, I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO READ IN MY VIDEOGAMES!!!!Dalauz said:
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"You're a WHAT!?" Nier Gestalt|Replicant |OT|
- Thread starter Adam Blade
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Femmeworth
Banned
:lol Of course I'll open it, but I'm kind of OCD about the condition of my game cases/manuals/etc.DR2K said:
You mean at the beginning of NG+? I don't know how anyone could come to either of those conclusions. Outside of the pointless sidequests I thought that was one of the worst parts of the game, and the "scene" came across as Cavia running out of time and pasting in the script.ZephyrFate said:
I enjoyed the text adventure sequence because it (at the time) indicated a larger concept at play in the game (which unless I missed something turned out to be nothing), but presenting an entire backstory through inept writing on a black screen... pfft. And as for the dump itself, like with many aspect of the game it could have been incorporated into the main story.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Inept writing? What the hell kind of standards do you hold videogames to? Videogames haven't reached anything like Vonnegut or Joyce or fucking Joseph Conrad.
Well, I hold videogames to standards that vary depending on the method by which they attempt to tell a story or express ideas (assuming that's even the focus of a given game). If a game decides to abandon every advantage of the medium for the sake of grafting another on then my standards shift to reflect the new medium.ZephyrFate said:
Lost Odyssey had text sequences that added somewhat interesting (and unnecessary) backstory to the main character, and did so with music/sounds that reflected the style, text effects to highlight words, and hazy background landscapes to reflect the tone. I don't think the writing in those sequences was amazing, and didn't hunt for all of them as a result, but they were certainly better than Nier's "oh crap we forgot to include this background info, quick open up secretorigin.txt".
At the least I certainly wouldn't call that section "incredibly written".
ZephyrFate
Banned
I'm pretty sure the difference here is that the Dream sections of LO were written by an actual writer, and are almost totally incongruent with the overall plot.
I'm still baffled as to how Kaine's origins are somehow not well written. I thought they were full of character and used music at almost perfect cues with the action on-screen.
I'm still baffled as to how Kaine's origins are somehow not well written. I thought they were full of character and used music at almost perfect cues with the action on-screen.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Zachack said:
How could you miss that two major characters in the story are talking books? That the spells you acquire are "verses", the upgrades/buffs are words, that many of the bosses are named after characters in children's storybooks, etc ?
Books and words are an integral part of the meta-fiction of the game, from what I understand its a hold-over from the original scenario idea which seems to have been much more fantasy orientated:
(from a famitsu interview/translated by DeFade in the Grimoire Nier googledoc)
"the world within picture books actually exist, and the heroes have to defeat the villains that came from the picture book. They were trying to revive their leader, so the heroes wanted to stop them. However, they have their own reasons. In the world of picture books, the same story is repeated over and over again, and the villains are doomed to be evil forever, and to suffer their punishment for eternity. A certain scientist realized this and tried to free them, but was defeated by the heroes. So, the villains tried to revive him, but of course, the heroes won't allow that."
Clearly along the way this was jettisoned and the more SF-themed linkage to Drakengard replaced it, but the function remains.
Its clear to me that there are obvious parallels to be found in the black and white moral certitude of traditional JRPG plots and those found in classical children's fiction.
Nier is all about deconstructing that simplistic world-view by showing the horrible consequences and collateral damage that ensues from the single-minded pursuit of an honorable goal.
In NG+ our perspective is shifted mainly through words alone; suddenly being able to hear what the shades are saying (a contrivance explained in the "plot dump" at the start of NG+) suddenly casts what we (the players) are responsible for previously enjoying in a different and significantly darker light.
Yes there are additional cut-scenes, but they are only meaningful because we now -like Kaine- can hear the shades' words. This is a dramatic mechanism that can only work on a second cycle, because its neccessary that we were as oblivious and mindlessly destructive as Nier is. The words are all important and powerful because they alter our perception.
Returning to the Forest Of Myth arc, on one hand we have the obvious humour of the meta-ness of a fictional character that is a living book, acidly commenting on being trapped in a collapsing world of words, but there's some real substance to the way that parallels are drawn between words as thought, as stored computer data, as memory...
Probably the single most brilliant moment in the game is during the second "battle" in the tree where words are used to foreshadow the climactic revelation of the Gestalt/Replicant schism. The duality of the "tree" and the "shade" (for they are one and the same in the text) being a metaphor for consciouness and physical identity is an amazingly literary conceit which I'd never expect to find in a mainstream video-game.
In NG+ our perspective is shifted mainly through words alone; suddenly being able to hear what the shades are saying (a contrivance explained in the "plot dump" at the start of NG+) suddenly casts what we (the players) are responsible for previously enjoying in a different and significantly darker light.
Yes there are additional cut-scenes, but they are only meaningful because we now -like Kaine- can hear the shades' words. This is a dramatic mechanism that can only work on a second cycle, because its neccessary that we were as oblivious and mindlessly destructive as Nier is. The words are all important and powerful because they alter our perception.
Returning to the Forest Of Myth arc, on one hand we have the obvious humour of the meta-ness of a fictional character that is a living book, acidly commenting on being trapped in a collapsing world of words, but there's some real substance to the way that parallels are drawn between words as thought, as stored computer data, as memory...
Probably the single most brilliant moment in the game is during the second "battle" in the tree where words are used to foreshadow the climactic revelation of the Gestalt/Replicant schism. The duality of the "tree" and the "shade" (for they are one and the same in the text) being a metaphor for consciouness and physical identity is an amazingly literary conceit which I'd never expect to find in a mainstream video-game.
Lost Odyssey's novel sections were often beautifully written and resonant, but objectively speaking the text sections in Nier are not only far more complex but better and more organically integrated into the overall storyline both thematically and narratively.
Femmeworth
Banned
I have been listening to the 15 Nightmares & Arrange Tracks album, and it is quite good. Though a few of the arrange tracks are somewhat lackluster.
I'm currently trying to figure out who is responsible for Blue Bird, my favorite track on the album. Okay, second favorite after The Wretched Automatons / A Capella.
Edit: Rawr, Walmart has Nier for $20 on their website but only the 360 version. >:\
I'm currently trying to figure out who is responsible for Blue Bird, my favorite track on the album. Okay, second favorite after The Wretched Automatons / A Capella.
Edit: Rawr, Walmart has Nier for $20 on their website but only the 360 version. >:\
ZephyrFate said:
They're alright, but I don't think they're on the same tier as the selections from the Forest of Dreams. And I'd say that, in an ideal world, they'd be presented in the same manner as the other new sections in the second playthrough. My understanding is that those sections were also made very, very cheaply, and Kaine's life couldn't be shown like that, because they couldn't have created all the new character models and animations that would have been necessary for it. This was the compromise.
There's no particular reason that Kaine's backstory had to be through text (unlike some of the other things, like Forest of Dreams), but it is. I think it's weaker than it could have been.
But there's lots of parts of Nier that are weaker than they could have been, and it doesn't matter that much, because the game ultimately achieves something that few other games really attempt. So I don't mind.
OfWhiteSkinOnRedLeather
Member
I liked how a lot of the places in the LO text sequences reflected none of the world they took place in. Where the hell was the land with wind blowing constantly in one direction that took a lifetime to traverse? Did it suddenly disappear a few hundred years prior to the game? Even if it did, there would still be evidence of its existence in the form of erosion of the land. It's as if it was in a completely different world. And no one say it was the world the immortals came from, because it most certainly was not. It was supposed to be the world LO took place in after they lost their memories.Haunted said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
The first game has a really dark plot, but absolutely dull gameplay. The second game has improved gameplay and a soundtrack that rivals Nier's.Dalauz said:
Up to you.
I'm trying to wrap up some side quests but I'm stuck on Ballad of the Twins. I have all the tails I need, but the tavern lady conversation is just saying "I'll have your stuff before long." "What stuff?", and I can't seem to get it unstuck. There's a few missions I need to talk to her with but I can't seem to complete this one, unless I'm missing something.
Prototype-03
Member
Papercuts said:
hmm... I remember finishing the quest but not the details... Have you tried going back to Popola?
Prototype-03 said:
Yup, she says "Did you track down that drink yet?". The quest log is updated and says to bring it to the seafront tavern but she isn't acknowleding it. I also tried to trigger A Signature Dish by talking to Devola since that also requires talking to the tavern lady, but it still says the same thing. I'm also pretty sure I can't do these sidequests after I go to the next area, so I guess it's stuck. :lol
Femmeworth
Banned
I loved Nier, so I decided to try out Drakengard... I only put a few hours into it, and then I didn't feel like playing anymore. The on-ground combat is adequate, though dull. On the other hand, the in-air combat is awkward and not so fun. The pacing for the story was rather slow, which didn't help. It didn't click with me immediately like Nier did. It's definitely way more rough around the edges.Dalauz said:
Prime crotch
Banned
Doesnt help that the plot is also censored on some key points.ninj4junpei said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
It's a different thematic approach with different composers, but if this doesn't prove it to you, I don't know what willGravijah said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
I will not lie, it's my favorite track from any videogame, ever.Gravijah said:
HamPster PamPster
Member
I just picked it up for $15... new at gamestop
when did the price get so low? Well I'm not going to complain!
when did the price get so low? Well I'm not going to complain!
Femmeworth
Banned
GameStop lowered the price again. It's $15 for the 360 and $18 for the PS3 online. They are both $15 in-store, apparently. *runs to GameStop*
Edit: Yay! I got the last copy. The computer said that they didn't have it, but they did. I was worried for a moment that all they had was a display copy. I'm so happy.
I can now justify buying the DLC.
Edit: Yay! I got the last copy. The computer said that they didn't have it, but they did. I was worried for a moment that all they had was a display copy. I'm so happy.
I can now justify buying the DLC.
ZephyrFate
Banned
some of the fish you catch (up to Shark, I think) are needed for other questsColdsnap said:
AKingNamedPaul
I am Homie
Really enjoying this game. I find myself hoping that it's really long so that I can make use off all these features. I hope it doesn't just introduce them and tease you without forcing you to use them later on.
Mr_Appleby
Member
RobertM said:
you don't have to do them.
Femmeworth
Banned
I bought the DLC, and I have played enough of it to unlock the outfits. That was easier than I thought it would be, though my Nier had been through two playthroughs. I'm going to start a new file with samurai outfits and on hard. Both of Kaine's new outfits are an improvement, though she still has silly high heels and that underwear. -_- I wish you could pick and choose the outfits for the characters, but oh well.
While playing through the DLC, I remembered how I rather dislike the dead zone for the right analog stick. It made one section of it awkward. Even at max sensitivity it is still there. :\
That was easier than I thought it would be, though my Nier had been through two playthroughs. I'm going to start a new file with samurai outfits and on hard. Both of Kaine's new outfits are an improvement, though she still has silly high heels and that underwear. -_- I wish you could pick and choose the outfits for the characters, but oh well.While playing through the DLC, I remembered how I rather dislike the dead zone for the right analog stick. It made one section of it awkward. Even at max sensitivity it is still there. :\
Revolutionary
Member
So yeah, I've got fishing down pat now. Turns out I was fishing for Bream by using the lure at Seafront, when I should have been using lugworms to catch sardines so I can start the fisherman's quests (there's only 5, right?). That's why it was taking absolutely forever to fish. Also, I got over the "finger slipping" problem by holding the stick like a joystick with my right hand. :lol But yeah, the in-game instructions were godawful.
Back to enjoying the game in full now.
Back to enjoying the game in full now.
Femmeworth
Banned
Holy crap, the sheep can take a real beating in hard mode, as well as the goats. The prologue took quite a while to finish too. Ugh, I hope that I don't end up regretting this. :lol While reading through the instruction manual, I discovered that the experience you gain increases as you get a higher combo. So that means that magic isn't a good way to level up. :\
Discotheque
Banned
Okay...I think I love this game. Really surprised by it. Combat can be repetitive, and Emil's scenes/lines are just goddamn cringeworthy but something just clicked with this one.
Femmeworth
Banned
I got to the fight against Hansel and Gretel...
Okay, fuck hard mode. This just isn't any fun.
Okay, fuck hard mode. This just isn't any fun.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Hard Mode is actually doable until the fight in the Village in the first half. That's absolutely fucking impossible on Hard Mode.
Enemies also level up with you in Hard Mode... FUCK that.
Enemies also level up with you in Hard Mode... FUCK that.
Femmeworth
Banned
On the plus side, I'm learning things about the combat system that I didn't know before. :lol There's a bit more depth than I thought.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I never used the wall jump technique but in Hard Mode it can save your fucking life.ninj4junpei said:
Femmeworth
Banned
I managed pull off a move where I ended up sending one of them (Hansel and Gretel) flying across the room. I was like, "...the fuck did I just do?" Apparently blocking at the right moment lets you pull off a special attack.ZephyrFate said:
Edit: I'm at the last section of the fight with less than half of my life and no healing items. ;_;
It's definitely better than the sum of its parts. I like the voice actress for Emil, but she can be grating in this. The voice acting could have definitely benefited from a better voice director. There are some good performances, but they don't quite mesh together well at times. Of course, the same can be said for voice acting in general, anime dubs and video games in particular.Discotheque said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
that's a parry. it's useful in the Drakengard games too
Femmeworth
Banned
I gave up on hard mode, needless to say. :\ I just noticed that some of the enemies are now shooting projectiles that are Emil's head... On another note, I'm really digging Samurai Nier. It's so much better than his original outfit.
I just noticed the painting in Kaine's hut with the lunar tears. ;_; "Defeat the woman in her underwear." :lol I didn't notice that before.
On another note, I'm really digging Samurai Nier. It's so much better than his original outfit.I just noticed the painting in Kaine's hut with the lunar tears. ;_; "Defeat the woman in her underwear." :lol I didn't notice that before.
ZephyrFate
Banned
The DLC changes the orbs of magic to Emil heads.
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