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[Evil's Bane]

I hope this MJ is not involved with any damsel in distress shit. I don't want another 3 movies of "HANG ON MARY JANE!!"

Marvel films haven't really messed with this trope much so I doubt we'll see it much. A scene where MJ interacts with Spidey in costume needs to happen though however they do that. He doesn't have to save her

 

[quickwhips]

What is going on? We mad that she isn't all white or that she hasn't dyed her hair yet?

 

[The Cretan]

No, that's exactly what it means.

If you are a consequentialist.

Fair treatment is not the same as equal treatment. You could crash your bike onto a wall and a kitten. That wall would most likely be fine, but that kitten would probably be dead.

Dodgy analogy aside, I understand the compulsion to adhere to the "everyone must be treated equally" mantra. It's just... disappointing when people hold to that so tight, divorced from all context and consequences. That way of thinking stacks heavily towards maintaining the status quo.

You can't never know every consequence, from now till the end of times.

You're not a "consequentialist" but you are invested in some abstract idea of fairness anyway?

Why even worry about fairness at all? That concept only exists to mitigate negative consequences.

No, read Kant or search about deontological ethics.

 

[Coffee Dog]

No. Its not okay to be offended by that.

how is it not okay to express not feeling represented

 

[Kreed]

I'm saying again that I'm not against the casting decision. I'm against the thinking that a white character can be played by a black person, but a white person can't play a black character.

No one in this topic/very few people in general are against a white person playing a black character in the simplistic context you're throwing around in this thread. As in, all things being equal, if a black person can play a white fictional character then a white person should be able to play a black fictional character.

However, most of us in this thread understand enough about US social issues to know that the reason for these switches in the first place is to display more of underrepresented ethnic groups in fictional media. And since white characters are generally the majority of fictional casts in most films and media, it's simple enough for most of us to understand that doing the "reverse" does not help fix anything and instead increases the problem that is trying to be addressed in the first place.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

What is going on? We mad that she isn't all white or that she hasn't dyed her hair yet?

one particular dude mad that she's black

and a bunch of other dweebs angry that zendaya's hair isn't already red as if it's impossible for her to dye it

 

[Nev]

Will she rock the mullet tho.

 

[whitemex88]

Has anyone made a Red Hair-ring joke yet?... I'll see myself out

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Hopefully she's based on Ultimate MJ. Such a lovely supporting character.

 

[The Kree]

If you are a consequentialist.

You can't never know every consequence, from now till the end of times.

No, read Kant or search about deontological ethics.

Are you gonna watch the movie?

 

[asagami_]

I kinda want to see Flash get taken and have Peter rescue him.

Actually that would happen. Flash somehow need to be a big fan of Spiderman, and I can't think a better way if don't being saved by Spiderman.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

What is going on? We mad that she isn't all white or that she hasn't dyed her hair yet?

It's kinda of a..mixed bag.

 

[The Cretan]

Hopefully she's based on Ultimate MJ. Such a lovely supporting character.

Yeah, she was very good in that series. I hope they are based more in Ultimate Spider-Man generally.

Are you gonna watch the movie?

I will be there day one, I love Spider-Man.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

You can't never know every consequence, from now till the end of times.

You don't have to know every consequences to want and try to effect changes.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Since we're on the topic of race in the MCU, do you think we're ever going to see Man-Ape in a BP movie?

 

[The Kree]

I will be there day one, I love Spider-Man.

Me too.

 

[Tonedeff]

Since we're on the topic of race in the MCU, do you think we're ever going to see Man-Ape in a BP movie?

Marvel doesn't have the balls

 

[cartographer]

So Bronson slayed the guy complaining that people weren't accepting enough of his hatred of black people.

What a thread.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

So Bronson slayed the guy complaining that people weren't accepting enough of his hatred of black people.

What a thread.

Never expected a Bronson face turn.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Marvel doesn't have the balls

Yeah, leaving him black or changing his race would both bring shitstorms. He'll probably never be mentioned.

 

[Slayven]

Bitch the movie is in Queens NY, not Helsinki Finland

That man had a family bronson

 

[Professor Beef]

So Bronson slayed the guy complaining that people weren't accepting enough of his hatred of black people.

What a thread.

He was a foreigner too.

Bronson is GAF's Captain America

Spoiler

but not nearly as suave ayyyyy

 

[Blader]

If you are a consequentialist.

I aim for empathy, but ok.

 

[BronsonLee]

That man had a family bronson

not anymore

 

[Big Baybee]

Since we're on the topic of race in the MCU, do you think we're ever going to see Man-Ape in a BP movie?

You crazy???

 

[Exploratory]

I mean, it'd be gross as fuck to enforce caucasian beauty standards like that. why cant minorities just look like minorities instead of play redhead dressup to sate diet racist comic fans

why cant zendaya just look like zendaya

Black people can have red hair but don't let ignorance stop you.

 

[quickwhips]

Marvel doesn't have the balls

Just have a white guy play him.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

not anymore

Hold on...I recognize that road...

 

[Slayven]

Just have a white guy play him.

That could work, a white guy appropriates the white gorilla cult trying to colonize Wakanda.

 

[jon bones]

Bitch the movie is in Queens NY, not Helsinki Finland

this is why we're here

 

[The Cretan]

You don't have to know every consequences to want and try to effect changes.

Would you accept the goverment building a nuclear plant right next to your house, that might explode in ten years or it might not?

I think we can have this conversation without requiring me to self-teach Philosophy 101. Communicate to me what you're talking about.

Kant says: Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law. That means that if a maxim, telling lies for example, can't be a universal law (because everybody would be liars, so nobody would believe anyone, so there wouldn't be the concept of lie), then it's unethical. So, you can't say that what's right in one occasion is wrong in another occasion.
Consequentialism says that if the consequences are good, then the act is ethical, if they aren't good, the act is unethical.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

SLEEEEEEP

Now that I think about it this Green Goblin costume was actually more offensive than MJ not having red hair.

 

[Kinyou]

Can I bring up that this Mary Jane is half white?

Is it okay that I am a little bit offended by that?

I mean, as an isolated incident, sure that is fine and the girl is beautiful (should still get red hair, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it when we live in a world with a brunette Hawkeye).

But my admittedly anecdotal as all hell view is that there is an effort to only allow acceptably light skinned women in to these roles of beautiful super hero and comic book characters.

Storm was cast as half white both times, and she is a straight up full blooded African.

The only dark skinned women that immediately come to mind were both Amanda Waller, who is decidedly not beautiful in the comics, and was not presented as beautiful in either movie.

I realize there is an insanely small pool here to look at, but given the relative scarcity of roles for black women in general, why are we only getting half white ladies?


Am I being racist there? I legit don't know. Is this in my head? I get angry about Storm's portrayal in film, so I may just be projecting that or something I dunno.

I don't think Zendaya was cast because of her skin color, so it might be a bit misplaced here. I understand it more with storm.

I mean, it'd be gross as fuck to enforce caucasian beauty standards like that. why cant minorities just look like minorities instead of play redhead dressup to sate diet racist comic fans

why cant zendaya just look like zendaya

Jesus fuck, people still go on with "wanting Red hair is racism"?

 

[Skilletor]

Would you accept the goverment building a nuclear plant right next to your house, that might explode in ten years or it might not?

Kant says: Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law. That means that if a maxim, telling lies for example, can't be a universal law (because everybody would be liars, so nobody would believe anyone, so there wouldn't be the concept of lie), then it's unethical. So, you can't say that what's right in one occasion is wrong in another occasion.
Consequentialism says that if the consequences are good, then the act is ethical, if they aren't good, the act is unethical.

Except that adding minorities gets us to something that is universal, adding white people adds to the status quo.

I've only taken a single philosophy class, but this universal law assumes everything is created equal, correct. Everything is not equal. Saying that choices made in an effort to create equality are in fact discriminatory misses this point.

 

[icespide]

Now that I think about it this Green Goblin costume was actually more offensive than MJ not having red hair.

I dunno man the power ranger GG suit has grown on me

 

[Sojgat]

Since we're on the topic of race in the MCU, do you think we're ever going to see Man-Ape in a BP movie?

He will only be referred to as M'Baku. If you're lucky, he might wear a headdress made from a white gorilla hide in one scene, but he'll probably be just some guy like Zemo was.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

I dunno man the power ranger GG suit has grown on me

Yeah but what could have been

 

[Dongs Macabre]

tbh what was so funny about Bronson's post, idgi

is it a reference

"Helsinki" is a funny name.

Like "Finland" or "Bronson".

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Just have a white guy play him.

Yes..EQUALITY!

 

[Professor Beef]

Now that I think about it this Green Goblin costume was actually more offensive than MJ not having red hair.

We found Goblin's suit amusing for a while, the people of this forum.

 

[Litan]

Would you accept the goverment building a nuclear plant right next to your house, that might explode in ten years or it might not?

Take a minute to ask yourself how you've gotten to this point.

 

[Skilletor]

Take a minute to ask yourself how you've gotten to this point.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[Fencedude]

I dont mind the change.. But uuhh isnt zendaya much taller than tom holland?

So what? Like, is there a problem that Spider-Man is shorter than his girlfriend?

 

[Professor Beef]

Would you accept the goverment building a nuclear plant right next to your house, that might explode in ten years or it might not?

i never thought i'd see a verbal example of "the nuclear option" but here we are

So what? Like, is there a problem that Spider-Man is shorter than his girlfriend?

haven't you seen the tinder thread

think of peter's poor self-confidence

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I'm really not seeing how "gorgeous model that's out of peter's league" is limited to redheads only

i'm also not seeing how red hair is somehow any more or any less of a character trait than white skin

i mean shit, we've had several osborns without their hilarious haircuts and yet somehow those characters are still recognizable. haircuts and skin colors are not the end all be all here.



they think of a white woman with red hair, because that is how the character has always been portrayed.

why is her red hair in any way more important than any other physical characteristic? why can the osborns have their haircuts altered and yet this would destroy mj's recognizability?

It's not a pre requisite for Peters love interest, it's an identifying trait of the character of Mary Jane.

And it's a character trait because it's a visual identifier of her.

Honestly I'm beginning to think that you don't even read Spider-Man comics, because her being a red head has always been her stand out physical trait.

Let me put it to you this way. Let's say they put out a cast picture of all of the high school aged women in this movie when it was announced. Now imagine one of those women had red hair. Are you really going to say that you wouldnt think that the only girl with red hair in the picture is the one playing MJ?

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Nuclear plants don't explode when they meltdown though.

 

[Skilletor]

So what? Like, is there a problem that Spider-Man is shorter than his girlfriend?

Mah accuracy.

 

[The Cretan]

Except that adding minorities gets us to something that is universal, adding white people adds to the status quo.

I've only taken a single philosophy class, but this universal law assumes everything is created equal, correct. Everything is not equal. Saying that choices made in an effort to create equality are in fact discriminatory misses this point.

No, I don't think it assumes everything is created equal.

Take a minute to ask yourself how you've gotten to this point.

i never thought i'd see a verbal example of "the nuclear option" but here we are

I just wanted to provide an argument against consequentialism. If it bothers you, change it with something else whose consequences aren't known, like passing the red light of an empty road.

 

[Coffee Dog]

It's not a pre requisite for Peters love interest, it's an identifying trait of the character of Mary Jane.

And it's a character trait because it's a visual identifier of her.

Honestly I'm beginning to think that you don't even read Spider-Man comics, because her being a red head has always been her stand out physical trait.

Let me put it to you this way. Let's say they put out a cast picture of all of the high school aged women in this movie when it was announced. Now imagine one of those women had red hair. Are you really going to say that you wouldnt think that the only girl with red hair in the picture is the one playing MJ?

how is it any more important than any other visual identifier that has been altered

how is it any more important than than the osborn's extremely distinctive hair styles or aunt may's age

what make mj's hair so much more important and so much more necessary than white skin, and why must it be transplanted onto a minority actress in a way that white skin would not be

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Kant says: Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law. That means that if a maxim, telling lies for example, can't be a universal law (because everybody would be liars, so nobody would believe anyone, so there wouldn't be the concept of lie), then it's unethical. So, you can't say that what's right in one occasion is wrong in another occasion.
Consequentialism says that if the consequences are good, then the act is ethical, if they aren't good, the act is unethical.

I'm curious now. Are you Libertarian?