Think of how big they would be if they would have developed an OS for themselves instead of letting Gates do it. They would be bigger than they are now.
Washington post: Investors want MS to kill Xbox
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Think of how big they would be if they would have developed an OS for themselves instead of letting Gates do it. They would be bigger than they are now.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Number 6 is not number 1. IBM has lost a lot of mindshare since leaving the consumer market. They are huge, but many young people don't even know a thing about the company.
TechnicPuppet
Nothing! I said nothing!
Relevant to you, you mean. It's very relevant to me and tens of millions of other people. I want them there pushing online gaming and keeping Sony on their toes.
But MS can't stream their games across devices right now. In 15-20 years maybe the tech will be there to do it right, but in the mean time, for new game experiences, you need good hardware.
And Kinect uses the One to process data. If streaming tech ever gets good enough to play core games over the cloud then I could see an Xbox just being Kinect, but that's so far off. In the mean time, if they want to build an entertainment brand where core games still make billions of dollars then they have to offer hardware.
Imperfected
Member
It's a lot more than it sounds like. To put it in perspective, imagine owning 0.8% of America. That might not sound like much, until you actually walk out onto your back porch and have a good look at it.
More to the point, though, it's enough shares to give them a voice at shareholder meetings, which they can then use to try and rile up other minority shareholders (most of whom don't have enough shares to be personally represented) into voting their way. A shareholder with 0.8% of shares will often end up with many times that in actual voting shares due to minority shareholders allowing them to vote as proxies.
That said, they've been banging the drum for a while now and seem to have had missed success; I don't remember who their chosen CEO candidate was, but I'm comfortably certain it wasn't the man who got the job, so they've at least failed to muster sufficient support to manage that. They're clearly still a minority voting bloc, if perhaps not comfortably so for the opposition blocs.
Muppet of a Man
Member
I could see MS spinning the Xbox brand off into a wholly-owned subsidiary company that would be easier to sell come a time the brand becomes more of a liability than is justifiable.
What debt? You think Microsoft actually borrowed money to fund Xbox?
I can understand why it would be interesting for them to thrown Bing away (maybe short-sighted, though), but I think that between Bing, Surface and XBox, from a consumer point of view, it would be the worst choice.
On the tablet market, you have many makers, at least two other OSes (iOS and Android), others possibly coming (Firefox OS, Ubuntu...)
On the console market, you have several alternatives.
On the search engine market, with Yahoo in bad shape, Bing is nearly the only alternative to Google (and maybe the only decent one).
I sure hope that Bing doesn't disappear...
Palette Swap
Member
Wasn't OS2 a complete failure?
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Nintendo could buy it and call it WiiU2
If it were profitable (overall) they wouldn't be having this discussion.
They don't care about young people, they are focused on business hardware/software. They are making tons of money and are still one of the most respected IT brands in business.
I think if they had stayed focused on the home market, it would have been a huge financial mistake.
SEGAvangelist
Member
I like Bing Rewards and the Bing search on XB1. I want to keep my Bing.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
The X is for eXtortion?
EDIT:
But MINDSHARE dude! IBMs missing out on all that sweet sweet mindshare.
StarBlazers1
Member
In the scheme of things, the money isn't the complete story. Mind share and brand recognition is just as important. Ask any teenager what Microsoft makes and their first response will be Xbox. They have Xbox Live, Xbox Video, Xbox Music already recognized as a strong brand. They will continue to grow. Killing that brand and division makes no sense, especially if they want to grow their services division.
How are they "pushing online gaming"? How have they been over the course of the 360?
It's stable and functional. No doubt, but it's not doing anything new.
If anything, it's Sony who's pushing online gaming with their streaming future, PS+, crossbuy, cross-save, etcetera.
Lol no. Windows and Office are the things people associate Microsoft with. I'm not sure Joe Average even realizes his "Xbox" is from Microsoft at all. It's not prominently advertised as such at all.
Saren is Bad
Member
Gaming (and off-topic for that matter) side is a bastion of solid business-running and corporate finance advice.
They'll say Windows and Word. Xbox may be in third, but come on now.
Most investors sort size by market cap for a reason.
They didn't give a fuck about online during the PS2 era. They also had the hard to develop mantra even then.
Randolph Freelander
Member
Yes, it is. The dollars tied up in entertainment cannot be spent doing something else. That's all an opportunity cost is, and entertainment is still an opportunity cost no matter how much money is in the bank. That money is irrelevant, and I was not the one to bring it up.
There are basically two of you using money in the bank as license to do whatever. There's I guess one of me saying that money isn't relevant. I'll walk away agreeing to disagree.
Also, don't mistake my posts here as recommendation for Microsoft to drop Xbox, because I recommend no such thing. I don't think it's ever going to achieve their intent, but I don't know that they can spend that money better going forward. I have no clue, and frankly don't care beyond just hoping they do as well as possible so that their impact on the economy as a whole (real talk: their impact on my 401K) is as favorable as possible. Whether or not the Xbox division continues as it is, takes over everything, is sold off, shut down, I really don't care.
That's listing companies by revenue. Hardly the best metric. Not to say that IBM aren't a huge successful company, but if you look at it from an angle that investors would be more interested in (profit) then MS are actually bigger.
But they did. OS/2. Their mistake (maybe not mistake, who knows what would happen?) was to wanting to keep it proprietary and not wanting to fight Microsoft directly on the third party licensing as that would hurt their hardware business.
Anyone looking at the Xbox division from a purely numbers/financial standpoint is doing it wrong.
It's a product that unifies almost everything within Microsoft.
Cloud services, OneDrive (formerly Skydrive), Windows (soon it's App Store too), Movies and Music, Bing. They won't be getting rid of it. The ONLY chance of Microsoft getting rid of Xbox is if the Surface takes off in a big way. That doesn't appear to be happening.
How have they pushed online gaming with the XBO? Relative to what they already achieved in the early years of the 360, it seems more of a step back or a lateral move, at best. And Sony has caught up with that threshold by now.
Sony also has more than enough financial troubles of their own to keep them on their toes right now and for the forseeable future. They're in no position to rest on their laurels.
PITA for barely a blip on the balance sheet. Distraction from core business of enterprise and the growing cloud
Surface is interesting, you'd think even without making money they'd want to keep that for a while as a front end for windows and metro.
It probably doesn't have to do with profitability, but that it takes away more profits from shareholders.
Basically, Influential Shareholder 1 is now making $50M (arbitrary number), but if Microsoft got rid of Xbox and didn't have to pay out the costs for that, he could be making $75M...
A very, very simplistic approach to what I understand is the problem, but I think that's what I understand.
You're right, they "pushed online gaming" in 2001.
They haven't really done so since then.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The fact that MS has to pay people to use Bing Search should have been a huge red flag that they would never win against Google and should have quit long ago.
... and in many cases not even that. They profit off being able to flip the stock, not actual profits. That and they don't actually understand Microsoft's business very well. Those enterprise opportunities only exist because of their past consumer successes.
They also did it with it in the start of the last gen. PS3 was pitiful with PSN (that allowed always online games) and no cross game party chat, but yeah keep going how the industry won't miss MS.
Apart from the rather prominent Microsoft logo at the end of every XB1 ad you mean? And besides, for nearly all of last generation Xbox users paid for digital content using Microsoft points. I think it's fair to say people know where Xbox comes from.
Septimus Prime
Member
Well, we're talking next gen, right? Xbox One is already here, so it's not like they will just can it and proceed right away. They can definitely have a Kinect with its own processor(s) by then, or they could also just offload the processing to whatever future devices it'll connect to.
As for streaming, yeah, they'll need to get crackin' on it or just buy someone with technology in place already, like OnLive. That, or they can just do what they are currently doing with Xbox LIVE on Windows Phone and just have Xbox LIVE-branded mobile games and just track Achievements and whatnot.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Imperfected
Member
Ask any teenager what they think Monsanto makes. The vast majority have no idea. Fun fact: the vast majority also consume thousands of products made by Monsanto or indirectly made by them due to the use of their crops every year.
Most of the world's largest businesses are as big as they are because you buy their products whether you like it or not, whether you even know it or not. Microsoft has positioned themselves relatively well in this regard. Are you a university student? Then a chunk of your tuition goes to Microsoft because of the school's expenses. Do you work for a corporation? Same deal.
You don't need "name brand recognition" when you've managed to install yourself as inescapable presence in your core competency. The important thing is that you get the money, not that you stand on a mountain top trumpeting how much market share your chemicals/agriculture/software foundational business has with teenagers.
Business
Member
That would be so true though. It's nothing short of amazing how Microsoft has managed to waste the position they once had. They tried to make and ipod, an ipad, a google search, an app store, a mobile operating system... always late and always not good enough. Funnily enough Xbox is a bit of the exception.
Basically all they have now is their desktop OS (threatened in the consumer market by the switch to mobile OS's where they have little foot) and Office, which is the jewel of the crown in my opinion. I'd be sad to see Xbox go but for MS to focus entierly on their OS for enterprise, their mobile OS and Office seems like the most reasonable thing to do.
I remember a jack tretton quote going something like this " we were in the marketplace before Xbox and we probably be in the marketplace after " now imagine if that happens, holy shit, at the rate Nintendo is declining sony would pretty much be in a ps2 position all over again
MS have been testing streaming internally for some time. They just recently showed off Halo 4 streaming to a Windows Phone. I'm assuming they're going to wait until they get it right before releasing it commercially.
Wish I could find the link. It was late last year.
Trust me, you don't want Sony left with no competitors. We would never win in such circumstances.
The meltdowns would be beyond epic.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Whats with the influx of juniors? was there just an acceptance wave?
:lol
Like any Fortune500 company gives a shit what a teenager thinks about whether they're 'cool' or not
:lol
Those stupid investors and their lack of holistic synergy overviews
:lol
What alternate history earth textbook did this come from?
:lol
Like any Fortune500 company gives a shit what a teenager thinks about whether they're 'cool' or not
:lol
Those stupid investors and their lack of holistic synergy overviews
:lol
What alternate history earth textbook did this come from?
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
Agreed. Hopefully they still keep it around even it doesn't make even close to what their other products and services make. Not to mention competition is always good for gaming period.
That's not really an accurate assessment in this case. The Xbox division has been around for more than eleven years, and has not yet made 1 cent.
IISANDERII
Member
Heh, if I was just getting to know Microsoft through Xbox, I'd be terrified to find out in what other ways that company will nickel+dime me.
$3 to enable comic sans font in Word
$1 to be able to disable safe search from Bing results
25cents per page to print out of my own printer
Because no tech company cares about what young people thing about their product and branding...
You know, like Facebook? Who has a serious problem on the horizon literally because teenagers don't think they are cool.
Ohh that I know, that's why i said holy shit, one of the reasons sony has put so much in to new IPs this past gen and so much effort on having quality first party games out in the marketplace is due to competition from the xbox brand, If the xbox dies sony will be going back the be the arrogants they were coming the release of the ps3
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I'm in agreement with Randolph Freelander, it's understandable that investors would probably rather the personnel and financial investment going into the Xbox business be put into something with a higher ROI (or potential ROI). The Xbox has failed and will likely never succeed in it's initial goal of taking over the living room, and the gaming business, while allowing some diversity for MS, is bringing in miniscule profits compared to their primary businesses.
I'd hate to see the Xbox brand go anywhere because competition is good for all of us. But I can totally see how investors and some guys like Elop at MS might see that as having a high opportunity cost.
I'd hate to see the Xbox brand go anywhere because competition is good for all of us. But I can totally see how investors and some guys like Elop at MS might see that as having a high opportunity cost.
Reveal to me your amazon gift card secrets I say!
I agree with these. Sony saw that the writing was on the wall in which the competition of the living room is too big to compete in & went the other route with gaming for PS4, which was a very smart move.
Microsoft is just making a huge mistake trying to convince themselves that they'll beat other companies like Google, Samsung, & Apple for the living room space in which they're far more popular in that spot than Microsoft has ever been.