It works both ways though. While people will judge it harshly for not being the FF game they envisioned, if it hadn't have been an FF game, a lot of people may not have even given it the light of day. A good example being The Last Remnant, which many considered to be decent, but as it was a random new JRPG IP from Square, no one cared.
Lightning Returns Review Thread
- Thread starter Kagari
- Start date
1st Course
Member
Hopefully we will start hearing more about XV now that the XIII trilogy is finally over.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Jesus. Basically take positive reviews with a massive grain of salt.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
it's not that, if you ask me.
FF XIII was never meant to be a trilogy in the first place. the original one stands perfectly well as a stand alone entry. SE was "wise" enough to try and force a sequel out of the most complex myth they have come up with in any FF game, just for a quick cash-grab. they were under the delusion they would make the story clearer with the second game, addressing the complaints, but it got people even more lost. XIII-2 was nothing more than a crowd pleaser, trying to patch things up but failing to offer any cohesion. And LR seems even more disjointed with a protagonist completely out of character.
I really don't wanna see any FF XV-2. If SE wants to push a mid-tier production out of the hypothetical success of the this upcoming game, they should make a complete spin-off.
HappehLemons
Member
Keep telling myself what? This game has a great combat system, and despite the low review scores the games fighting system is one of the few positive aspects of the game. The reviewers recognize this. FFXIII battle system sucked, and FFXIII-2 was only a little better. The story can't be saved though...
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Exactly. The game can't enjoy the interest and publicity that comes with riding the FF name, with out being held to the same standards that made people love FF games.
It's a stinker through and through but that's hardly a surprise.
the_sun_king
Member
Maybe I should've clarified: XIII-2 and LR's narratives are a clusterfuck.
I, too, feel the original game is fine as a stand alone entry and didn't need any sort of sequel.
I, too, feel the original game is fine as a stand alone entry and didn't need any sort of sequel.
I have it preordered and I'm not worried. The demo was fun; I've played it twice now. I've studied the shit out of the story/plot/mythology of first two games so I'm not too worried about nothing making sense either. I just need an ending.
That said, this is still pretty sad. Hopefully the reception of the FFXIII series doesn't make Squeenix abandon their attempts to innovate JRPGs. The battle system in all 3 is the best thing to happen to Final Fantasy. I'd hope they're smarter than listening to nostalgic fans and going back to classic ATB turn-based yawn system.
High hopes for FFXV. Please main character don't be annoyingly emo.
That said, this is still pretty sad. Hopefully the reception of the FFXIII series doesn't make Squeenix abandon their attempts to innovate JRPGs. The battle system in all 3 is the best thing to happen to Final Fantasy. I'd hope they're smarter than listening to nostalgic fans and going back to classic ATB turn-based yawn system.
High hopes for FFXV. Please main character don't be annoyingly emo.
badcrumble
Member
It was totally fair for people to criticize DmC for not living up to the Devil May Cry games and it's fair to do the same for LR:FFXIII, IMO. You want to profit off of a pedigree that was earned, you need to live up to it. Period.
I absolutely agree that it's important that FF reinvents itself. I do think part of the reason behind the negative reaction to the FFXIII trilogy is that it's happening *instead* of that sort of reinvention, though. If we'd already gotten FFXV by now, if the series were still functioning the way it used to, people would mostly have forgotten about FFXIII and moved on.
But, if you somehow haven't noticed this through all of the FF threads on this forum in the past, people compare FF games to each other ALL THE GODDAMN TIME. Probably too much, if anything. But there's a very real and important pedigree to the series, and new entries in the series absolutely deserve to be evaluated specifically with regard to whether they live up to that pedigree.
Except it's not really, and you end up just scoring a name. The further the review deviates from analyzing the reality of the game as a standalone product, the less rational and fair it becomes.
You can compare it to past entries solely for the purposes of recommending it to past fans, and gauging their tastes. But if you don't ultimately explain the pros and cons of a game without all the baggage of 25 years of nostalgia, then the review is just a long rant and nothing more.
Final Fantasy hasn't been good since 12 or 10. Great since 9/7/6. Because the talent bailed and now we have bad music, bad writing, emo teen angst, and underage teens with short shorts.
Seriously not interested. Lost Odysssey was good. Unsung Story looks good; hope it makes it.
Though you may have a point with the reviews of other 13 games.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
No offense but "emo" is thrown around too casually and has little to no meaning. God forbid we have a character who's both looking troubled AND has black hair ! Every character should be a muscle freak with shaved head or a bandanna with manly one liners.
That said Noctis could join d'espairsray with minimal stylistic changes.
Could you please not throw 7 in the same barrel as 9 ?
How about dialogue? Do you think it's angsty nowadays, i.e. with lines like "I wish I had never been born." and girls going about "Love, what is love, I want to know what love is?"
I love this haha, so true
I hope Unsung Story gets funded :/
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Isn't 7 a lucky number? Good or bad?!
It's been a few years since 13, and I wasn't taking it very seriously. I think some of the voice acting may have improved since 10, and I remember "Mom's are tough".
I'm not saying that earlier Final Fantasies were fine literature. But it was a different era. I would have hoped that FF matured along with the industry and we had themes and dialog like Witcher. And it doesn't have to be western, you can have darker/mature eastern themes.
Seems they posted an update today saying they're going to do it no matter what. Will buy day 1. It may even turn out to be average, but at least I won't feel like a pedo playing it and it will have engaging gameplay if it's like Tatics Ogre, FFT, and Vagrant Story. Seems a decent composer is on it too.
badcrumble
Member
The objective/fair/rational review is a myth. Reviews are all subjective opinions; comparison to the franchise within which a game exists makes that particular subjective review more useful to the greatest number of readers.
I knoooow. it's like a dream come true. I'll buy it on whatever system it comes out on. Matsuno games are right up my alley. I dig the more mature/political stories he tells. TO is one of my favorite games.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Thankfully, XV is being handled by the guy behind Kingdom Hearts, whose storytelling abilities are well known!
I'd rather have convoluted over shit.
Galactic Barret
Member
I have it pre-ordered and plan to try and enjoy it. I know that at the very least I am going to love the combat and customization, which probably means I will enjoy the game. No number slapped beside it by some reviewer will have any affect on that and that is just how I always go in. I have ended up loving games that have been shit on far worse. Just go with what appeals to you, regardless.
Nomura is not the problem.
Seconded. Looking forward to enjoying this game.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
That would be a cause for concern if Nomura hadn't already stressed that the story in FFXV is going to be very simple.
Dude knows his weaknesses and limitations.
Galactic Barret
Member
VII is just as good as IX. I feel VII is better, honestly, having played both recently and thoroughly.
That Wont Fit In There
Member
All those 7's aren't a coincidence. It's a hidden message.
Final Fantasy 7 Remake coming lol
I agree, the spinoffs went pretty crazy. Mainline wasn't too bad.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
I don't know, Nomura might have better ideas tha Toryiyama, but in my honest opinion, his stories or scenarios aren't that great either. They're also on the crazy side with out of this world ideas and crazy plots.
For once, I wish Square Enix or JRPG devs make a story that makes sense and more down to earth. Becoming a goddess to save the world is just plain bad. That's just welcoming more crazier ideas to eclipse just how absurd that is resulting in more crazier ideas.
Why can't it just be simple, you know. A Final Fantasy story about a father wanting to save a son or daughter without focusing so much on the magic or supernatural side. Something simple like that. Like Brothers. It's gotten a lot of nominations during awards. JRPG developers can learn a lot from Brothers.
For once, I wish Square Enix or JRPG devs make a story that makes sense and more down to earth. Becoming a goddess to save the world is just plain bad. That's just welcoming more crazier ideas to eclipse just how absurd that is resulting in more crazier ideas.
Why can't it just be simple, you know. A Final Fantasy story about a father wanting to save a son or daughter without focusing so much on the magic or supernatural side. Something simple like that. Like Brothers. It's gotten a lot of nominations during awards. JRPG developers can learn a lot from Brothers.
Etrian Oddity
Member
The fact that Motomu Toriyama's untalented ass is still at the helm at Squeenix is both utterly baffling and infuriating. Get that hack the fuck outta there.
Also, poor Hamauzu still not having a stellar game to his discography. The man is snake-bitten.
Also, poor Hamauzu still not having a stellar game to his discography. The man is snake-bitten.
AlphaDragoon
Member
After the clown shoes garbage Nojima's pulling with FFX's plot I don't trust him either.
I think with the turnaround of FFXIV Yoshi-P deserves a shot at one of the offline titles.
ambientmystic
Member
That in itself would already be an improvement to the clusterfuck of a story that is the FF XIII trilogy.
A nice beginning, middle and end with no loose ends combined with a sensible plot and decent characterizations would be godly at this point. Also one where I wouldn't have to read a friggin' Datalog just to understand it would also be a plus point. Don't just tell us, show us.
I was extremely hyped for this game. Even going as far as buying the digital version to play while I was waiting to get my physical copy in the mail. I was hoping to dear God that LR would change the perception of the XIII series which I was one of the few who legitimately liked (sans XIII-2)
In my opinion, it has a fantastic soundtrack, one of the best, if not best battle systems to date and a wonderful customization system. But that's where the greatness ends. I spent around 200 hours with the game. But even the lightning drone in me could not fathom the laziness that Square has displayed with this title. Some of the PS2 quality textures, the mundane quests (collect all the flowers in the wildlands to get +30 more HP!), the stupid as fuck AI. It made me sad and frustrated at the same time to see these while playing. Mainline FF games are known for quality, not QUALITY.
These 7s are justified in my opinion, but I would be lying if I said that I wasn't sad to see these scores, it's a wonderful game, but it falls short of it's ambition.
But I will say to the people who are on the edge of trying it out, just go to the game with an open mind.
In my opinion, it has a fantastic soundtrack, one of the best, if not best battle systems to date and a wonderful customization system. But that's where the greatness ends. I spent around 200 hours with the game. But even the lightning drone in me could not fathom the laziness that Square has displayed with this title. Some of the PS2 quality textures, the mundane quests (collect all the flowers in the wildlands to get +30 more HP!), the stupid as fuck AI. It made me sad and frustrated at the same time to see these while playing. Mainline FF games are known for quality, not QUALITY.
These 7s are justified in my opinion, but I would be lying if I said that I wasn't sad to see these scores, it's a wonderful game, but it falls short of it's ambition.
But I will say to the people who are on the edge of trying it out, just go to the game with an open mind.
Lumpy Onion
Member
A 7 seems about right after playing import. Personally I liked it less than XIII 1, but more than XIII-2. Combat and customization stayed fun throughout the game and I found questing relaxing.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Actually I find it slightly annoying that some people try to force their opinion that IX is as good as the rest of the PS1 era games just so they can make this completely subjective and ultimately detrimental statement that "Final Fantasy hasn't been good since...".
My anecdotal evidence would be -judging by a plethora of online conversations- that FF X is in fact more popular than IX, with the latter simply having very vocal supporters. Trying to make a "FF hasn't been good since..." argument is pointless.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Ugh, more crystals again.
Bravely Default awaits you.
theprodigy
Member
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
I try every time to see things from your perspective, but 9 times out of 10 that "nostalgia alert, opinion invalid" thing pops up. Where you see cognitive deficiency, I see context.
Well, yes FFX is more popular than FFIX, Assassin's Creed III is more popular than Dark Souls and COD is more popular than Metroid Prime or Doom II. How is your point related to the game quality again?