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Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. |OT| Tahiti is a Magical Place (to...Hey guys, I found it!)
- Thread starter TheOddOne
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Jest Chillin
Member
No. It had a bio-hazard symbol on the door.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I forgot about that.
Still, the whole thing is incredibly baffling. Should we assume that Coulson was not brought back to life by SHIELD per Fury's request? Who's that third party then? They don't really look like bad guys, TBH.
Oh okay. I wasn't wearing my glasses at the time and I was watching on an old SD tv...
Jest Chillin
Member
No worries. I went back and checked on my DVR just in case. That's the kind of thing that often does get overlooked.
I think he was revived at fury's request. I just think Fury doesn't have all the answers. Winter Soldier is supposed to be pretty big at explaining a lot of what's going on in Shield and I suspect what winter soldier reveals factors in here
BlackNMild2k1
Member
Atleast Coulson gave fair warning and announced himself before just putting an Arrow through some unsuspecting guards heart. Some of them probably had a daughter at home, and that was the best paying job they could get to support their family... but GO ARROW!!!
Really though. I'm shocked that this is what everyone is stuck on... well after discussing the Kree(?) that was found behind the TAHITI door.
exactly. I'm not really sure why this is something everyone got all hung up on.
This is Agent Coulson and other seasoned agents from SHIELD we're talking about. These 2 guards are not the first and certainly won't be the last people they had to take out that were just "doing their job".
Coulson was on a self imposed mission to find answers, related to his own revival, that would potentially save another innocents life. I'm sure to Coulson (& by extension Skye) this mission was just as important to them, as the 2 guards mission of protecting the contents of that base against anyone that didn't know the call-sign.
I'm not saying that Coulson breaching that base and taking out the 2 guards for his own personal agenda was necessarily the right thing to do, but they are Secret Agents and they have a license to kill. At least Coulson was nice enough to announce himself, state his intent, and then give additional opportunity to resolve the conflict at hand without any bloodshed.
Jack Bauer and Arrow would never have given them the chance.
Rodney McKay
Member
I don't know why, but the death of those two stuck out to me a lot more in this episode than a blue dude with magic blood.
I wonder who gets to tell Sky that stuff when she wakes up:
"Congrats! You're going to be fine, it only took injecting you with unknown alien blood, killing two random security guards, and blowing up an entire facility meaning that no one else will get to benefit from the magic alien blood!"
BlackNMild2k1
Member
Which is weird, because there was more than 1 vial of the stuff that Fitz could've taken back with him to "The Bus". Him and Simmons could have studied it and found out more about it. Besides the other vials in the Biohazard case that were ignored, there was a 2nd biohazard case just sitting there, he really didn't need to leave with just the single vial of the stuff.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I will say, Coulson has been shown before to be a cold guy when the job requires it, for all his intrinsic compassion and humanity. When it was clear the "Scorch" guy was doomed, Coulson had him taken down and calmly said tough luck to the guy, right to his face as Scorch died.
I guess the thing about these people is that, despite working alongside super heroes, they are not themselves super heroes. They're agents of a shadow organization and they're highly trained killers. The good agents really do care about their own people, and about innocents. But when an opponent is on the other side of the barrel, they will pull the trigger without a drop of sweat. (May should be a good example of this by now.)
I guess the thing about these people is that, despite working alongside super heroes, they are not themselves super heroes. They're agents of a shadow organization and they're highly trained killers. The good agents really do care about their own people, and about innocents. But when an opponent is on the other side of the barrel, they will pull the trigger without a drop of sweat. (May should be a good example of this by now.)
MY money's on it being a HYDRA facility because of BOB.
Call me cynical but mo way that was an actual Bob AoH refrence. Also the ID badge that was flashed is probably SHIELD issue. It looks like the regular badge minus the SHIELD logo and name.
EXACTLY.
He didn't hesitate to throw Dr. Franklin Hall to the magnetic goo thingy (ok, the "gravitonium") to stop it. The Son of Coul is a hardened MoFo.
sol_bad
Member
How do you know the 2 guards are "innocent"? Have you seen what they have been up to for the past 20 years?
I want to believe you're right, he could be a fun character if given the chance, but with Captain America: Winter Soldier on the horizon my spider senses are tingling.
MY money's on it being a HYDRA facility because of BOB.
I hope they find a way to work bob in to the movies as an subtle on-going MCU-wide joke.
pulga
Banned
The moment they fired, first, on Coulson and co with lethal ammo.. they cease being innocent. "Just doing their job" doesn't justify the Guards actions anymore than Skye's dying justifies Coulson's. You're suggesting that there would have been absolutely nothing wrong with the Guards killing the SHIELD agents because the SHIELD agents broke into the facility looking for help and it would've been ok because that's their orders.
How exactly does that work within the frame of your moral argument?
They're in their right to shoot Coulson and everyone else to bloody sunday. You're failing to see this from the guards perspective, again and again. Your job is to guard a secret base, and your orders are not to let anyone in without answering the call sign. Four armed men walk up to the front door, droning on about needing medical help, with no patient in sight. Why would you let them in? The guards are probably thinking "not this fucking trick again". Then the armed men proceed to hack themselves into the compound. The guards had had every right to kill Coulson and company.
I am appalled at the mental hoops people are going through in here to justify Coulson's murder spree. Pray for Bob. Pray for their families. Let it be a small comfort to them that their bread providers died so a shit character could live. #RIPHEROICGUARDS
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Remember: if you break into a bank with a gun in you hand and the guards shoot at you, you are fully allowed to blast them to shit. It's self-defense after all.
eastx
Member
Who cares? You're the one creating a controversy where there is none.
Nobody cares about the guards' perspective because they're one-off characters and not the protagonists of the show. Also, you could decide to empathize with any character in a military setting, any villain who thinks they're doing good or just doing their job in a story. But that would be silly and nonconstructive, so nobody does it.
Unless they let you walk into the safe and get money you need for your hospital bills, they're evil and deserve to be killed.
It is not a matter of controversy. It is a matter of a show trying to get us feel for this group of characters for being noble, for doing the good and then they do this without any finesse or anything. They just shoot up people, expect us to act like it doesn't matter.
You know, you can make the same argument that in the Matrix, Neo and Trinity commit cold blooded murder when they shoot up the lobby full of cops. Look at the cops' perspective. You have two potential terrorists walk into a government building armed to the teeth. They don't know they're working for a bunch of evil computers. And these are the people that the "good guys" are trying to save.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Talk about making mountains out of molehills.
Sheesh.
No wonder TV writers treat audiences as if they're stupid.
Sheesh.
No wonder TV writers treat audiences as if they're stupid.
It is not like they made a big deal of not killing the guy that was going to blow up an entire station in episode 1. Oh wait, they did. The SHIELD writers are already treating us as stupid.
pants
Member
yup
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
They killed the cards because they wanted to protect Simmons at all costs. She's like Lara Croft, you protect her and care for her.
pulga
Banned
and this is why SHIELD will always be a mediocre show. its fanbase consists of mindless zombies in for the pretty explosions, not questioning whats really happening
watch the writers wave their hands in the next episode as if nothing ever happened, whilst everyone gets their panties wet over a 'Thor' namedrop
edit: saw some people bringing up Arrow in here. Characters called Oliver out on his homicidal spree plenty of times. Why even bother mentioning the much superior comic book based show lol
watch the writers wave their hands in the next episode as if nothing ever happened, whilst everyone gets their panties wet over a 'Thor' namedrop
edit: saw some people bringing up Arrow in here. Characters called Oliver out on his homicidal spree plenty of times. Why even bother mentioning the much superior comic book based show lol
Oh good, now everyone who doesn't agree with your claim is a mindless zombie.
Jest Chillin
Member
No one is failing to see it from the Guards perspective at all. 4 Men walk up to the door. 2 of them are Armed and are holding back with the other two (one simply holding a tablet the other in a suit and tie) approach and Identify themselves as members of SHIELD who need help. Nothing about that formation is aggressive. The guards also have the opportunity to talk to Coulson's group multiple times. The fact is, they exercised no independent thought. "How'd they find this place?" "Doesn't matter, didn't know the counter sign..." No on is saying the guards are wrong for not trusting Coulson's group.. but not trusting is a far cry from open firing on sight.
Even after breaching the lobby, Coulson's group does not fire. They take cover and again announce that they're seeking medical assistance and well defend themselves if they're continue to fire upon them. Absolutely nothing about that firefight supports that the Guards were.
They also absolutely wouldn't have families in a position like that. Family could be leveraged against them to gain access to the facility or worse. Those positions go to people who have no loved ones.
Walk into a bank with a phone in your hand at get shot at by security. That's ok because security thought it was a gun. They were justified in shooting at you, as they were just doing their job. Oh wait, that's not at all how it works. Shoot first, ask questions later is never considered appropriate protocol.
Except they're not trying to make them look noble. Coulson's group didn't have a moral line until Skye joined the group and became that for them. The have regularly shown the team use Ends justifies the Means tactics and measures. AoS was never, ever about a Lawful Good aligned team.
You mean the guy who was under the effect of the Extremis and as a result didn't have control of his temper and was going to explode through absolutely no fault or choice of his own? Yeah completely different situation. Those Guards had complete control of their own faculties. They can think and act free of outside influences. They chose to fire on a group of self-identified Agents of SHIELD. They knew the group would defend themselves and they knew they could be killed by the group.
You really need to rewatch Arrow and think again before you talk about "pretty explosions, not questioning what's really happening." People called out Ollie, sure.. but did he care? Nope. Killed hundreds of people with his bow with literally no effect on his psyche or mental state of being and most of the people he killed had nothing to do with his list. They were just a means to an end to him. The only difference between the hundreds of people that Ollie massacred in S1 and the two people that Coulson's team killed is, most of Ollie's victims had no dialogue.
You know what pulga?
Shut the fuck up and sit your ass down somewhere until you're ready to have a discussion without acting like a petulant child simply because everyone not only doesn't agree with you, but you making an issue about literally nothing significant.
Here's the thing, those guards aren't "innocent". They were simply enemy combatants. Once they started shooting, the team had the right to self defense. Hell, Coulson's team wouldn't have fired a shot at had they simply not escalated the situation. You act as if these guys were bystanders caught n the cross fire. They weren't.
"They didn't show proof that they had someone in medical need."
No fucking shit! That cube Skye is in, probably weighs in excess of ten tons, what you want them to take a picture and show it to the camera? Plus, depending on the wound moving Skye to show proof would've probably killed her prematurely and thus their entire trip would be for naught.
"They're a SHIELD facility!"
No. They're not, the show went OUT OF ITS WAY to show that its not. And even in the off chance that it was, did you forget the episode where that SHIELD lady was going to let Ward and Fitz die, because of the mission? You really think other agents would have a problem killing other members if it furthered SHIELD's goal? If it were affiliated with SHIELD, why didn't they recognize the fucking Bus? Agent Coulson himself? Really?
"Coulson team was on a murder spree!"
Murder? We're calling legitimate self-defense murder now? LOL
"They were doing their jobs, if they let them in they're idiots."
Who's the bigger idiot. The organization trying to get medical help, or the organization who left a supposedly secret base only guarded by two soldiers, who were poorly trained at that?
Bottom line, the show explained itself of why they did what they did. Get over it. And stop trying to pretend like you POV is gospel when you've shitted up this thread with something most of didn't even care about till you mentioned it.
pulga
Banned
oh I'm the petulant child here?
i c a n t b r e a t h e
if you think killing two INNOCENT people to save the life of one person isn't significant and morally bankrupt, may whoever you believe in have mercy on your soul
i wonder what skye will think when she wakes up and finds out two people had to die in order for her to live? personally, i dont think she'd be okay with that, but we won't find out since the writers will gloss over all of this
Ollie had a serious case of PTSD going on when he was murder-happy, and yes, he did eventually come to care and put a stop to his killing spree.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
I'm starting to love this thread more than the show..lol.
pulga
Banned
i didnt think anyone was so emotionally invested in Agents of frikkin' SHIELD to tell me to 'shut the fuck up'
The Elite
BOSS
oh I'm the petulant child here?
if you think killing two INNOCENT people to save the life of one person isn't morally bankrupt, may whoever you believe in have mercy on your soul
They were asked to render assistance and refused. They were given fair warning to stand down when outnumbered and refused. They were told that the SHIELD team would defend themselves.
They fired first. That isn't innocent. They were complicit in the actions that transpired during the shoot out by not rendering aid, but not standing down when given fair warning.
Is SHIELD gung-ho about saving Skye's life, absolutely, but anyone would fight for those they care about. More importantly, anyone would defend themselves when fired upon.
pants
Member
Some of you guys have got to be plants to try and excuse this as morally okay. I mean I can understand the guys going "they're not supposed to be good so whatever" but some of you dudes going "yeah but they shot first, doesn't matter if shield broke into the place they were guarding whilst heavily armed" are some new level of testing one's faith in critical thinking.
But overall yes this thread is way more entertaining than the actual show :lol
Christ this thread :lol
But overall yes this thread is way more entertaining than the actual show :lol
He says when he throws the gun at the farmers feet before prompting him to "pick up the gun" :lol
Christ this thread :lol
pulga
Banned
they were drawn into a firefight once Coulson and company hacked their way into the compound. If Fitz hadn't done so, they'd be back home playing Tropical Freeze with their children by now. For all the guards know, Coulson and co. could be HYDRA trying to break into the super secret compound. Valiant heroes they were. You could say their blood is on Fitz's hands.
ive done all this arguing and haven't even brought up the night night gun. where was the night night gun? why werent these men's lives worthy of preserving? why
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
When you are guarding a secret paramilitary outpost and some dorks not only fail to pass the question at the door but also shoot the security cameras off and break into the compound guns unholstered, you blast them them in the face. I don't care if those guards are later revealed to be Hydra agents, that was some subpar poor writing.
This, too.
This, too.
Broder Salsa
Banned
It's not a question of it's morally bankrupt or not to kill two innocent people to save one, it's about the judgement of Vic Mackey and his own morals.
What is morality? It's your own fucked up beliefs about what is good or bad. We don't know how we got morality, personally I believe God gave them to us, but clearly Vic Mackey is not a believer in any religion. He is a street boy, with power, it doesn't matter what your morals are, the good thing about The Shield is watching him and his morality play out, and what the other agents in The Shields reactions to that is.
What is morality? It's your own fucked up beliefs about what is good or bad. We don't know how we got morality, personally I believe God gave them to us, but clearly Vic Mackey is not a believer in any religion. He is a street boy, with power, it doesn't matter what your morals are, the good thing about The Shield is watching him and his morality play out, and what the other agents in The Shields reactions to that is.
Fake spoilers:
The season finale will be titled C.O.U.R.T. M.A.R.T.I.A.L. and it's going to be about Coulson and crew being tried by a S.H.I.E.L.D. tribunal for gunning down the Guest House soldiers.
Ha. Hahahah!!
The season finale will be titled C.O.U.R.T. M.A.R.T.I.A.L. and it's going to be about Coulson and crew being tried by a S.H.I.E.L.D. tribunal for gunning down the Guest House soldiers.
Ha. Hahahah!!
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
The Elite
BOSS
Just an FYI
When you go into the official thread for a show and call its fan base "mindless zombies" simply because they enjoyed the content and you didn't, you're pretty much setting yourself up for an unreasonable discussion.
I don't think anyone should tell pulga to fuck off, he has a right to his opinion, and he isn't without a moral foothold in his argument either, but at the same time he shouldn't be surprised by the vitriol and defense the fan base in this thread has put up.
This could have been a valid debate about morality on the show and on television in general, but when you come out guns blazing, expect people to shoot back.
When you go into the official thread for a show and call its fan base "mindless zombies" simply because they enjoyed the content and you didn't, you're pretty much setting yourself up for an unreasonable discussion.
I don't think anyone should tell pulga to fuck off, he has a right to his opinion, and he isn't without a moral foothold in his argument either, but at the same time he shouldn't be surprised by the vitriol and defense the fan base in this thread has put up.
This could have been a valid debate about morality on the show and on television in general, but when you come out guns blazing, expect people to shoot back.
pulga
Banned
Scumbag Coulson is now a thing.
Run with it.
...
close this thread, we're done here
i wish i had a bobdead.gif
Jest Chillin
Member
Ollie didn't have PTSD. PTSD doesn't just go away. He also didn't come to care. He only (mostly) stopped killing out of a twisted sense of debt to Tommy. He has absolutely no moral struggle. Just a struggle with his conscience on whether or not he's properly honoring Tommy's memory. Let's also not forget that Huntress killed less people in the show and was vilified for it by both the fans and the characters.. yet Ollie has killed somewhere around 4 times as many people on screen (more off screen) and no one questions it.
These are not civilians. They're highly trained soldiers. They know common R.O.E. They know the difference between a team that's coming in ready to kill and one that isn't. And the idea that Coulson and co were an aggressive threat because they have guns doesn't fly. A facility like that would service no one that didn't have their own force of armed guards. The guns had nothing to do with the facility guards opening fire.
Yeah at this point you're pretty blatantly trolling. They weren't drawn into a firefight. Coulson's team hacks the glass doors and then immediately hides behind cover and is fired upon by the guards. Then Coulson repeats that they're seeking medical help and not there to fight but will defend themselves if they're continually fired upon. The guards respond by firing on them again. If anyone was drawn into a firefight it was Coulson's group.
For the third time as well, the guards have no family. They would not be given the position of guarding that facility if they did. The fact that you're ignoring this is the most obvious aspect of your trolling. That and now you want to bring up the night night gun, which was already discussed earlier in the thread.
Combined with your recent post in the Arrow thread, I can't help but to think that your only purpose in this thread is to trash the show and try to troll the people who enjoy it. Pretty shitty.
BattleMonkey
Member
Scumbag Coulson is now a thing.
Run with it.
It's so true though heh. No matter what, we must bring in these supers no matter the risk to our lives. "oh shit rent a cops are coming at us, kill em all!"
eastx
Member
Weird thing is, nobody wants the marvel movies to be more DC-like. But a lot of people want Agents of SHIELD to own up to its comic book roots as much as Arrow does.
TacticalFox88
Banned
Well...this thread escalated quickly.
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