Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade

Biggest change I see when comparing old and new shots with drastic lighting changes is that in the original the player character was not giving out any light and in the final game there is a glow now with you that neutralizes some of the games lighting.
 
Grief.exe said:
That is a valid concern.

Optimist in me says, one reason we haven't really seen the PC port yet is due to the missing features resurfacing in that version.



Reportedly had some performance issues I believe.
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Wouldn't that explain a lot? I mean they could afford to show the areas they did with the original lighting model under controlled conditions (at shows etc), because the presence of other invading players and the additional load that would cause wouldn't be an issue.

However "in the wild" having an invader tank the hosts player's frame-rate in areas under heavy load due to lighting conditions could be a severe problem gameplay-wise.
 
The most likely scenario at this point is we were looking at the PC build with PS3/Xbox 360 buttons displayed the whole time. The console version were never meant to look like that period. From the IGN interview videos FROM Software wanted to create an engine that was ready for next gen and they achieved that at the expense of last gen. The PC version will be the showcase for the new engine.
 
Clear said:
Wouldn't that explain a lot? I mean they could afford to show the areas they did with the original lighting model under controlled conditions (at shows etc), because the presence of other invading players and the additional load that would cause wouldn't be an issue.

However "in the wild" having an invader tank the hosts player's frame-rate in areas under heavy load due to lighting conditions could be a severe problem gameplay-wise.
Click to expand...

I agree. From probably realized the lighting model would be impossible in many real-world situations on aging hardware.

Valnen said:
Guess that's one way to sell your PC/Next Gen ports.
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Which would explain why we haven't seen too much from the PC version.
 
Krusenstern said:
I knew there was something off with the lighting and people still kept downplaying it or denying it or called me things.

Just look at the mirror knight comparison. I feel dumbfounded when I see this.

ibt8n4J6FpZ513.png


The difference is pretty stark.

I hope From made the PC version at least look like the initial build.
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Holy shit. Please let the top image be what the PC version looks like. Please please please. Don't hurt me, From.
 
Ok guys I'm out of here until I've played some of the game. I'm getting to tempted to start viewing released media. I think the console versions aren't as bad as we feared. There was definitely a downgrade, but it still seems to look good in spots.
 
Sn4ke_911 said:
PC version screenshots.
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Thanks. Still looks very flat compared to the videos. Hopefully not at max settings. I don't know why they'd show off such nice lighting and then not include it on a platform that isn't closed like consoles are.
Textures aren't particularly stunning either.
 
EatinOlives said:
No indication if they're needed, just that it's there.

Dynamic lighting is there, obviously. It can be seen from the official screenshots. It's just not entirely clear if they removed the "no torch? no visibility" mechanic.
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Well, from what I've watched on a Stream, there was
a Blighttown-like area where you had to traverse through "hanging cages" and everything outside of your torch light area was pitch black, so you either use a torch or memorize the level design in order not to fall to your death.

But again, it was a low quality stream, I can't say if the game running is any different.
 
I'm sure this has been brought up but the console version of the game is meant to be 5.3gb and according to the min/rec specs for the PC version it is 11gb so one should assume it'll look a lot better, right?
 
Gbraga said:
Well, from what I've watched on a Stream, there was
a Blighttown-like area where you had to traverse through "hanging cages" and everything outside of your torch light area was pitch black, so you either use a torch or memorize the level design in order not to fall to your death.

But again, it was a low quality stream, I can't say if the game running is any different.
Click to expand...

That's good to know. I just really hope that no gameplay-changing mechanics were removed because of the lighting downgrade.
 
Witchfinder General said:
I'm sure this has been brought up but the console version of the game is meant to be 5.3gb and according to the min/rec specs for the PC version it is 11gb so one should assume it'll look a lot better, right?
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Not necessarily. I'm sure the console versions would require better compression, especially in terms of audio content, while things can afford to be uncompressed in the PC version.
 
Witchfinder General said:
I'm sure this has been brought up but the console version of the game is meant to be 5.3gb and according to the min/rec specs for the PC version it is 11gb so one should assume it'll look a lot better, right?
Click to expand...

Nah just replaced the in game cutscenes with pre-rendered video.

But really, I just expect better audio quality.
 
Necromanti said:
Not necessarily. I'm sure the console versions would require better compression, especially in terms of audio content, while things can afford to be uncompressed in the PC version.
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PS3 uses blu-ray and 9/10 times has bigger audio files than the 360 versions without too large of a space difference. Certainly not twice the size. They've already promised increased texture size though so we shall see if that holds true.

Dark Souls on the PC is less than 4 GBs
 
The demo I played seemed pretty good. But some of this latest footage definitely looks like shaders or textures were taken a step back.
 
ricochetguro said:
PS3 uses blu-ray and 9/10 times has bigger audio files than the 360 versions without too large of a space difference. Certainly not twice the size. They've already promised increased texture size though so we shall see if that holds true.

Dark Souls on the PC is less than 4 GBs
Click to expand...
It's definitely going to look better on PC, regardless. It doesn't say anything about whether they gimped the lighting or not, unfortunately, which would make a big difference in how good it looks.
 
I've been playing the game for about 20 hours now, on PS3. Some thoughts:

-The game noticeably lacks lighting in a lot of areas. There are lots of dark/underground/gloomy areas that have no ambient lighting at all and it looks incredibly jarring.
-There are dynamic lights in the game, but they are relatively few and far between (the screenshots someone posted above highlight some of these areas) and often feature very low-res shadows and wonky framerates.
-There is a pretty aggressive ambient occlusion technique being used that yields mixed results. It looks good on objects/bodies on the ground, but makes grass and a lot of indoor areas look really weird. It's also caused some framerate issues for me.
-Even in areas with better lighting, the game looks nothing like the demo videos.
-The torch system appears to be dynamic and looks pretty excellent with a torch equipped or when standing next to a sconce, but it also causes pretty dramatic framerate dips, especially in areas that have other light sources.
-This is just a personal thing I noted, but it seems like there are fewer specular shaders in this than in DkS1. Armor has them and I've seen them when I've had oil thrown at me, but other than that they seem pretty sparse.

SlasherJPC said:
Please tell me this is still in the retail release with all the atmosphere and lighting effects!

iqKlfRFV9WByZ.gif
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I don't think I've seen this area yet, but there's nowhere in the game I've seen so far that looks like this.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
I've been playing the game for about 20 hours now, on PS3. Some thoughts:

-The game noticeably lacks lighting in a lot of areas. There are lots of dark/underground/gloomy areas that have no ambient lighting at all and it looks incredibly jarring.
-There are dynamic lights in the game, but they are relatively few and far between (the screenshots someone posted above highlight some of these areas) and often feature very low-res shadows and wonky framerates.
-There is a pretty aggressive ambient occlusion technique being used that yields mixed results. It looks good on objects/bodies on the ground, but makes grass and a lot of indoor areas look really weird. It's also caused some framerate issues for me.
-Even in areas with better lighting, the game looks nothing like the demo videos.
-The torch system appears to be dynamic and looks pretty excellent with a torch equipped or when standing next to a sconce, but it also causes pretty dramatic framerate dips, especially in areas that have other light sources.
-This is just a personal thing I noted, but it seems like there are fewer specular shaders in this than in DkS1. Armor has them and I've seen them when I've had oil thrown at me, but other than that they seem pretty sparse.



I don't think I've seen this area yet, but there's nowhere in the game I've seen so far that looks like this.
Click to expand...
I'm more interested specifically in how it compares to the first two games on PS3. Better, worse, about the same?

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a PS4 version down the line.
 
Shinta said:
I'm more interested specifically in how it compares to the first two games on PS3. Better, worse, about the same?

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a PS4 version down the line.
Click to expand...

I can't really accurately comment on this. I played DeS on PS3 and DkS mostly on 360. The framerate feels pretty rough in DkS2 and might be worse than DkS, but I couldn't say positively. I haven't noticed any tearing on PS3, which is nice.

That being said I do feel that in terms of textures and lighting it looks worse than DkS, but it has been a while since I played the console versions. Maybe it's on par and I'm just remembering it looking better. At the very least, it looks nowhere near as good as the previews and demos. Animations are a marked improvement, at least.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
I can't really accurately comment on this. I played DeS on PS3 and DkS mostly on 360. The framerate feels pretty rough in DkS2 and might be worse than DkS, but I couldn't say positively. I haven't noticed any tearing on PS3, which is nice.

That being said I do feel that in terms of textures and lighting it looks worse than DkS. Animations are a marked improvement, at least.
Click to expand...

I guess I shouldn't be too shocked. They do make these games fairly rapidly, now that I think about it. And they used a new engine this time.

Oh well, I'm still excited. If a new version comes out down the line, I'll get it cheap :/
 
XANDER CAGE said:
I've been playing the game for about 20 hours now, on PS3. Some thoughts:

-The game noticeably lacks lighting in a lot of areas. There are lots of dark/underground/gloomy areas that have no ambient lighting at all and it looks incredibly jarring.
-There are dynamic lights in the game, but they are relatively few and far between (the screenshots someone posted above highlight some of these areas) and often feature very low-res shadows and wonky framerates.
-There is a pretty aggressive ambient occlusion technique being used that yields mixed results. It looks good on objects/bodies on the ground, but makes grass and a lot of indoor areas look really weird. It's also caused some framerate issues for me.
-Even in areas with better lighting, the game looks nothing like the demo videos.
-The torch system appears to be dynamic and looks pretty excellent with a torch equipped or when standing next to a sconce, but it also causes pretty dramatic framerate dips, especially in areas that have other light sources.
-This is just a personal thing I noted, but it seems like there are fewer specular shaders in this than in DkS1. Armor has them and I've seen them when I've had oil thrown at me, but other than that they seem pretty sparse.



I don't think I've seen this area yet, but there's nowhere in the game I've seen so far that looks like this.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the impressions, many seem to misunderstand the complaints and point to the fact that shadows are still present in the game when holding a torch as some kind of proof that everything is fine.

It's hard to describe exactly what was removed but it seems like baked shadow maps are gone and just any sort of darkness in general went straight out the window.

The cave at the beginning of the Huntsman Copse in the Beta was dark enough to force you to watch your step, now you can see the walls clearly and everything is fairly bright.

Most areas that should have been dark are pretty dramatically affected by this change, watching Beta footage again really drives the point home. I want to play THAT game :(

Some effects like the water actually reflecting the characters seem removed in the final build too. Atleast in that Skeleton Lord fight that was in the Beta. It was cool seeing fellow phantoms and the bosses being reflected in there. I can't 100% be sure that this stuff is gone from footage but It really seems to be. Nips and tucks to improve framerate? Maybe but the framerate doesn't seem to be better than in the Beta anyway...
 
JoeFenix said:
Thanks for the impressions, many seem to misunderstand the complaints and point to the fact that shadows are still present in the game when holding a torch as some kind of proof that everything is fine.

It's hard to describe exactly what was removed but it seems like baked shadow maps are gone and just any sort of darkness in general went straight out the window.

The cave at the beginning of the Huntsman Copse in the Beta was dark enough to force you to watch your step, now you can see the walls clearly and everything is fairly bright.

Most areas that should have been dark are pretty dramatically affected by this change, watching Beta footage again really drives the point home. I want to play THAT game :(

Some effects like the water actually reflecting the characters seem removed in the final build too. Atleast in that Skeleton Lord fight that was in the Beta. It was cool seeing fellow phantoms and the bosses being reflected in there. I can't 100% be sure that this stuff is gone from footage but It really seems to be. Nips and tucks to improve framerate? Maybe but the framerate doesn't seem to be better than in the Beta anyway...
Click to expand...

Day 1 patch?
please
 
I had actually totally forgotten early previews had talked about the torch being a Doom 3 style "you need to balance light and combat" thing. Yeah, that hasn't been an issue at all in this game. So far sconces are just kind of there. You can see totally fine without them.
 
looking at the side by side comparisons, its not nearly as bad as some made it sound. It almost looks like a shift in style more than anything else to me. I'm OK with this. Still excited for the game.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
I had actually totally forgotten early previews had talked about the torch being a Doom 3 style "you need to balance light and combat" thing. Yeah, that hasn't been an issue at all in this game. So far sconces are just kind of there. You can see totally fine without them.
Click to expand...

Please let me know when you get to that
Dragon Mansion
, there's a painting hallway in there and I'm curious to hear your impressions of it. The difference in lighting and atmosphere from the released footage there is absolutely staggering.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
I had actually totally forgotten early previews had talked about the torch being a Doom 3 style "you need to balance light and combat" thing. Yeah, that hasn't been an issue at all in this game. So far sconces are just kind of there. You can see totally fine without them.
Click to expand...

That sucks big time.

In the network test in some areas, like in door areas
(there was a skeleton cave)
, you had to use the torch because you could hardly see anything.
 
RK9039 said:
That sucks big time.

In the network test in some areas, like in doors areas
(there was a skeleton cave)
, you had to use the torch because you could hardly see anything.
Click to expand...

From previews it was my understanding that this was to be a big part of the gameplay. I was really excited about it, too.

So this could be far, far more than just a graphical downgrade. It could really affect the gameplay and atmosphere, too.

Really thinking about holding off now, for either a patch or a statement or next-gen versions. I did the same with GTA V when I saw the framerate, and I know I can have the willpower to do the same here if I have to.
 
Metalingus5150 said:
So From brightened the really dark areas in the game?
Didn't they say they wouldn't do that?
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Yeah, I was happy at the time to hear that From would stick to their vision after all of the complaints of "too dark" from beta players.

I wonder if the delay of the PC version partly exists so that From can finish implementing what was shown in demos/previews, as it seems the console versions are lacking. One can hope.
 
JoeFenix said:
Please let me know when you get to that
Dragon Mansion
, there's a painting hallway in there and I'm curious to hear your impressions of it. The difference in lighting and atmosphere from the released footage there is absolutely staggering.
Click to expand...

Dude, I understand that this is barely a spoiler as I don't even know if that's the actual name of the place, but it's descriptive enough and you can never be too pedantic with spoilers! So, please spoiler similar stuff in the future.
 
mickcenary said:
Dude, I understand that this is barely a spoiler as I don't even know if that's the actual name of the place, but it's descriptive enough and you can never be too pedantic with spoilers! So, please spoiler similar stuff in the future.
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Just saying, but the mansion area was shown in the game's reveal.
 
Soriku said:
Just saying, but the mansion area was shown in the game's reveal.
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I get that, but there are probably people who haven't even seen that by choice. Like I said, the onus on poster to spoiler that stuff is far less burdensome than the effect it could have on someone, whether any of us deem it reasonable or not.
 
SlasherJPC said:
Please tell me this is still in the retail release with all the atmosphere and lighting effects!

iqKlfRFV9WByZ.gif
Click to expand...

Really hope the PC version looks this good, I will be deeply saddened if it doesn't because that gif is gorgeous

If it's not in the final build then please at least have it be moddable to a state like this. I can't see something like this in a Souls game and then not have it, it's too good lol
 
Pre-release: "Hey guys! Look at this game we have been making and showing you for months! Looks great doesn't it?"

Release: "LOL, no it doesn't. Thanks for the cash"

Basically this whole downgrading shit going on.
 
mickcenary said:
Dude, I understand that this is barely a spoiler as I don't even know if that's the actual name of the place, but it's descriptive enough and you can never be too pedantic with spoilers! So, please spoiler similar stuff in the future.
Click to expand...

I apologize if you feel like you were spoiled but as others have pointed out it's been shown in the reveal trailer. It's also not the actual name of the place, I thought it was vague enough not to bother anyone but I'll be ultra careful in the future.

I would appreciate it if you could spoiler the name of the area in the text that you quoted.

Again, sorry.
 
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