swazzyswess
Member
That's not what bait and switch is.
Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade
- Thread starter Moral Panic
- Start date
That's not what bait and switch is.
Garcia
Member
I'm slowly convincing myself that this is the case. You know what the problem here is though: They falsely advertised their game and delivered a heavily compromised version of their original concept.
Nothing of this caliber would be happening had they not misled the public.
This game vastly lacks atmosphere. Even the original Dark Souls had more charm going on in its most uninspired areas (like the vertical tunnels before Blightown or the gigantic branches that led you down to the Ash Lake). Nothing like that is present here. It's either "wow, that's gorgeous" or "shit, that looks terrible".
If it's not, we all lose.
SneakyStephan
Banned
hilarious
They are shit, that's why the framerate is shit, why the resolution is shit, why there's no decent texture filtering and why there's low quality effects etc etc
but this ps2 style lighting on environments is beyond ps360 shittyness
dragon's dogma dark arisen represents ps3/360 shittyness graphics wise but it still has a good atmosphere, pitch black darkness, dynamic shadows, a day and night cycle etc
it shows that those old shitty consoles can at least do a lot more than what ended up in dark souls 2
You're right. Sorry. Thought it meant something different.
Metalingus5150
Member
I can't wait for last gen consoles to die.
Also, when last gen consoles die, doesn't PC benefit, since the bar won't be so low?
Also, when last gen consoles die, doesn't PC benefit, since the bar won't be so low?
We can only hope the PS4/XBO generation doesn't last very long. Going to need to refresh that hardware quite quickly.
Found footage of the mansion of the dragons. There's no way anybody anywhere can't claim this game hasn't been completely gutted. Just look at this shit, LOOK AT THIS SHIT:
....I want someone to come in here and defend this steaming stool of a downgrade! It's so far out it's comical! It's not even close! ...... Unbelievable!
I_D
Member
This one looks similar, but without the dramatic chiaroscuro-style lighting, a simplified skybox and less dragons flying around:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndRpge6kHc8&t=5m13s
Damn, that's a huge difference. It looks like they redesigned the entire castle.
Please keep the above in mind when pursuing your line of questioning, folks.
I'm not saying no one has the right to be upset, and it's clear there have been some changes since earlier builds we've seen. However, in From's self-published videos/interviews, they have either used CG/in-game cutscenes, or talked about features such as the lighting as "goals for the E3 build/network beta test".
If you feel like you've been promised something that hasn't been delivered in the retail product, or advertised something falsely, you'll need to take it up with Bandai Namco, as they are responsible for the vast majority of the marketing/promotional material.
Even so, if you feel you're entitled to an explanation then I will say good luck to you, because BN has probably covered their trail with fine-print or legal shenanigans at some point down the line.
I'm not trying to apologise on From's behalf, and I'm not part of some internet defence force with nothing better to do than toot the horn. I'm just asking people to be rational and try approaching this from another perspective. I realise that as consumers, many are disappointed with what they are seeing, and I think From would be the first to admit that they run into both technical and artistic issues when it comes to optimising their games. However, as developers they have delivered the product they set out to achieve, with interesting gameplay at the heart of their philosophy. Whether they met their goals in this respect is subjective, and as Daschysta says, should be examined as part of the completed product.
lol. Many more possibilities...
Serious question though. Do you guys think if this game were in the hands of more competent devs, would it be possible for the game to retain the original (intended?) look throughout the whole game, or is it really beyond the scope of current gen consoles?
If they know what's best, then PC gamers' good graces->PS4/XBONE versions would help their fledgling studio.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I suppose they have to decrease the quality so that the next gen versions look much better ...
I'm still getting this game though. I've seen a couple of let's plays and it looks great.
I'm still getting this game though. I've seen a couple of let's plays and it looks great.
No doubt about it. Last gen gave us Tomb Raider, GTAV, DmC, Halo 4, the Uncharteds o course, GoWs, the LoS, Metro, Witcher 2 on 360, it could be achieved by a ood team. I know I'm in the minority but I've always thought Dark Souls looked like horrible crap, but this is somehow just as crap with worse artstyle.
EatinOlives
Member
Let's put it this way: the original demo doesn't look better than Uncharted 3 (THE RETAIL VERSION. Apparently we have to make that distinction now...), which is obviously possible. EDIT: and has plenty of dynamic lighting + torches in the game as well
I really don't want to trash From for not delivering as good a graphical showcase as U3. I'm not a Souls fan for its graphical prowess, although a sublime art direction was definitely part of the appeal. But I'm saying these changes aren't inherently because of the currrent gen hardware.
Curious_George
Neo Member
Mansion of dragons pics make me sad but I can also totally see why they had to downgrade it. In the original they had torches all over the place. If PS360 can barely handle one torch with decent FPS, that many torches would have been Blighttown all over again or worse. Clearly they either overestimated their ability to optimize for last gen or overestimated the hardware's ability to handle their new engine. I suppose that, or they just never planned for that version to make it on PS360 to begin with (and in that case, they should have be much more forthright from the beginning about what was being shown).
If you haven't done so, I recommend reading/watching the digital foundry analysis of the PS360 versions.
360 - Expect nearly nonstop screen tears (highlighted in red on the screen edges)
PS3 - No tearing, but dips down to 20 fps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6YJPVIA8nmM
360 - Expect nearly nonstop screen tears (highlighted in red on the screen edges)
PS3 - No tearing, but dips down to 20 fps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6YJPVIA8nmM
Has a dev downgraded a game to this extent to do this before? They even got rid of the importance of the torch mechanic which seems really drastic. People keep saying this, but I think it's just jumping to conclusions.
1080p/60 FPS and just being available on a next gen system seem like enticement enough...
Souls games are bigger than Uncharted though, and Dark Souls 2 is supposed to be even bigger than the first game. Would it still be possible to maintain the lighting and such across the whole thing?
Maybe with more time and a bigger budget?
You really have to wonder how well From is going to manage into next gen.
Garcia
Member
Yes, they have. That's why there are disclaimers below the released trailers and in the kilometric agreement that pops up once you put the disc in the console.
SneakyStephan
Banned
for the 'it's because of the consoles being so old'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zju9n3NHIU&t=4m40s
dd dark arisen is an open world rpg and the dark arisen expansion is very similar to dark souls
(it also has the torch mechanic and pitch black darkness and enemies that can two shot you and whatnot it is amazing, go play it while you're waiting for the hopefully non neutered pc version of DS2)
compared to this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C74ISJe3RBs&t=17m10s
that is just frigging tragic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zju9n3NHIU&t=4m40s
dd dark arisen is an open world rpg and the dark arisen expansion is very similar to dark souls
(it also has the torch mechanic and pitch black darkness and enemies that can two shot you and whatnot it is amazing, go play it while you're waiting for the hopefully non neutered pc version of DS2)
compared to this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C74ISJe3RBs&t=17m10s
that is just frigging tragic
Mansion of the dragons doesn't just look like a downgrade looks its has been completely gutted and missing final texture and shaders. How can they think its acceptable to release a game that looks like that? No one could genuinely believe that is finished. Seems like Bandit Namco is pushing out another unfinished game early.
Also playing the Network test the torch mechanic was fantastic knowing its been stripped form the game because of the graphics downgrade is completely sad.
Clearly the game is unfinished when a major gameplay mechanic is axed right before release and there wasn't even time to remove all the remnants of it.
Also playing the Network test the torch mechanic was fantastic knowing its been stripped form the game because of the graphics downgrade is completely sad.
Clearly the game is unfinished when a major gameplay mechanic is axed right before release and there wasn't even time to remove all the remnants of it.
Joseph Flemming
Member
If anyone cares, I continued the convo. I pressed Vaati a little on honesty and integrity.
He states again that the pics does look like a downgrade, but reserves judgement until completion....
https://twitter.com/VaatiVidya/status/443599211452305408
He states again that the pics does look like a downgrade, but reserves judgement until completion....
https://twitter.com/VaatiVidya/status/443599211452305408
HyperBitHero
Member
Hey, I actually made a video comparing the original demo to the final game. Sort of shot for shot.
Dark Souls 2 - April 2013 Vs Retail Lighting and Graphics Comparison
Dark Souls 2 - April 2013 Vs Retail Lighting and Graphics Comparison
EatinOlives
Member
What is Vaati's involvement with Dark Souls again? Is he just a very famous youtuber, or does he have some bigger involved on the development/marketing side of it?
Garcia
Member
Like day and night. Great work.
Just a youtuber, ENB actually was inside development as he helped with the strategy guide.
At this point Vaati has access to as much information as anybody else and is really just a youtuber so people should stop hassling him.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
Speaking of ENB, his first walkthrough video went up about a half an hour ago.
jim2point0
Banned
I'm actually shocked Vaati acknowledged it at all. But he's the last person I'd go to for an honest reaction on this.
They even killed the pretty torch particle effects.
They even killed the pretty torch particle effects.
Metroid-Squadron
Banned
Excellent. As your video shows, even if you set the brightness down so that dark areas are actually pitch-black the differences remain pretty big.
Curious_George
Neo Member
Seriously looks like a last gen vs next gen comparison (maybe it actually is). I guess we know what PS4/XB1 versions will look like assuming those areas shown were more than just preview builds only.
Nice. Thank you.
If you're up for it, a video of the painted hall would be damning as hell too
Hey, I actually made a video comparing the original demo to the final game. Sort of shot for shot.
Dark Souls 2 - April 2013 Vs Retail Lighting and Graphics Comparison
Staggering
YianGaruga
Banned
EatinOlives
Member
Yeah, I was about to say... :/
He's just a very excited fan who's having fun with the game. I think we need to focus our Twitter efforts toward Namco-related accounts.
Fantastic video! OP should edit the first post to put this front and center, it perfectly summarizes the issues with the retail release in just over 4 minutes. Much better for thread newcomers to watch the video than read 53 pages of us ranting our heads off.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Woah that video, seeing it side by side like that at the same time
where the hell did all the geometry in the environment go like the clutter and the bricks on the doorframe etc? also the specular highlights on the wall ...
the first 2 mins, if we hadn't seen what happened to the game yet (pretend it's 6 months ago) and someone told you that video is a mod for oblivion that someone made to recreate that part of the trailer for the lulz, noone would question it
where the hell did all the geometry in the environment go like the clutter and the bricks on the doorframe etc? also the specular highlights on the wall ...
the first 2 mins, if we hadn't seen what happened to the game yet (pretend it's 6 months ago) and someone told you that video is a mod for oblivion that someone made to recreate that part of the trailer for the lulz, noone would question it
Joseph Flemming
Member
As others have replied, he is a YouTube personality, has a lot of fans and has done a lot in the community to keep the fires/passion for Souls going with his vids and lore.
Although I personally liked his early stuff. He seems torn between being an apologist for From and being an objective pundit, but with his large subscriber base he has a pulpit.
Edit, I wasn't trying to hassle him, he didn't think so and said I was reasonable.
I'm just tired of people saying things to him like, "You have to admit though the graphics are worse." What's the point? We don't need him at all to push this.
edit: looking forward to his lore and interesting facts vids though
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