DirectX 12 GDC 2014 presentation: Low-Level Access, DX11 GPUs, Holiday 2015

On Demand said:
Sony ponies
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godelsmetric said:
I don't really understand the point of putting a Forza 5 demo on the PC. It ran on a PC when it was unveiled at E3 2013 and it had better graphics than the final Xbone release. A modern GPU, even with DX11.2, should run rings around the Xbone version of the game. What do they think they're 'proving' by showing it now?
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They were going to port their engine to D12 for Forza 6 anyway. This way MS got to run some diagnostics on it too.
 
ashecitism said:
Valve don't have Steam in China. Dota 2 is being run from a separate launcher. But let's say they or someone else wants to launch a more cutting edge game over there or their engine doesn't support DX9 anymore, then OGL would make more sense for them unless people start to move on from XP.

Then again I'm not sure MS really cares about China?
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Yea, I meant SteamOS or Linux for their Steam Machines push. Regardless, using the Steam statistic as a barometer was a poor choice though. I'll admit that.
 
I imagine the next Forza, Halo and Crackdown will all be poster childs of DX12 on Xbox

A good variety of game genres to show it off with, best of luck to them.
 
I think the biggest promise of DX12/Mantle/OpenGL+extensions/SteaomOS etc is that by freeing the CPU from the laborious and mostly single threaded task of runnign the renderer, and by giving developers much better control over directcompute - devs will have a LOT more resources to play with in terms of AI, pathfinding, collision detection, physics.

We got a glimpse of that wiht the Mantle demo released recently - thousands of units, we've seen that before, but now tens of thousands of units, all runnign AI that is much more sophisticated that what they could have had previously. All traversing 3D space in an intelligent way.

And it's precisely the strategy genre on PC that will likely see the most benefits from these new technologies. Sure, other genres will benefit a lto too, but for strategy the benefits are immiediatley obvious.

More direct control over the GPU and less dependence on the CPU also means nothing but good things for VR!

Really looking forward to the future of PC gaming.
 
plagiarize said:
When you're using a dev kit you're still coding much closer to the metal than you would on a normal PC game, because that dev kit has a single GPU spec that you're targeting, which is one meant to closely represent the final PC. So you can do a lot more with that single set of hardware as a result.

They ported the Xbox One version of Forza to DX12 in 4 man months, which is very short time, and they ported it to a different architecture (Nvidia instead of AMD), basically to show that the DX12 *closer to the metal* features are hardware agnostic, where mantle or traditional console development is not.

I really think that's all there is to it. It was an internal experiment to get a handle on how long this stuff takes and what's involved in making a DX12 game. That's all.
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Yea, I guess that if the main purpose was to demonstrate a quick turnaround, then it does make some sense. With that said though, I though the machines at E3 were running on NIVIDIA GTX780's? So it wouldn't really need to be moved from AMD to NVIDIA architechture if the previous builds were already running with superior performance under those circumstances.
 
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
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5Mbq5.gif


In this metaphor, the taco is a DGPU
 
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
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uuhhhhhhh... What?
 
SolidSnakeUS said:
As it should be. OpenGL is very powerful (I think anyways), but yeah, it needs help. It just irks me that it shows that it will be a very long time before Windows is out of the picture when it comes to PC gaming.
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Not too sure why people want Windows out of the picture when it comes to PC gaming. I mean as far as im concerned i dont know many good alternatives. Steam box isnt really a good one as of right now and probably wont be for the foreseeable future.

Is PC gaming really that bad with MS? I dont think so. I have a huge backlog of games from before the XP days with the jedi knight series, Doom. I dont see anything from Valve that indicates these games will be playable on a future steam box.

Directx, xbox one, and windows isnt going anywhere for a long time. Im not sure the doom and gloom everyone wants is ever going to happen.
 
Mrbob said:
Yeah, it's super easy to make Metro non existent. I use Start 8 but there are plenty of options. I completely forget there is even Metro in Windows 8. I just boot straight to desktop.
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As it's been stated multiple times, the dislike for Windows 8 is not solely because of Metro or a missing classic Start menu. But this isn't the topic for that.
 
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
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Nice, I know you enjoy laughing at Mister x as much as I do, you have been practicing doing him a little too much if you ask me...

Mister x Insider is now saying wait till E3 for every x1 game to be 1080P60 (just have to wait a few months more)...cant wait for their bubble to pop...so funny
 
OldAsUrSock said:
I am fine with upgrading my GPU to run a new Direct X. What I do not like is having to change operation systems. Changing a part is just opening the computer, taking one out and plugging the new GPU in. Changing the operating system is wiping your drives, installing the new OS, installing drivers and then getting games back on the machine.
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you don't have to do that anymore with win8.
 
^ Low overhead has been possible through extensions. They talked about it at Steam Dev Days and will talk about it later today I think. From what I gathered feature wise OGL was never bad as opposed to tools and support.

SolidSnakeUS said:
As it should be. OpenGL is very powerful (I think anyways), but yeah, it needs help. It just irks me that it shows that it will be a very long time before Windows is out of the picture when it comes to PC gaming.
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Unless MS totally loses the plot I don't think it will ever be out of the picture.
 
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
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OK to post Scanners_Head_Exploding.gif on Gaf?
 
So, it's pretty much what was already expected. Good stuff still. I like how all those DX11 cards will be ready for DX12, means faster adoption. Most likely it also means I will have to upgrade my Windows in 2015 to use it. Windows 9 better be really good.
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
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Bahahaha, fucking brilliant.
 
Please explain this to me, what that 50% increase in CPU performance would mean for a game like Titanfall on Xbox One, same resolution as it stands now and a rock solid 60 fps? anything more? less?
 
Erimriv said:
Please explain this to me, what that 50% increase in CPU performance would mean for a game like Titanfall on Xbox One, same resolution as it stands now and a rock solid 60 fps? anything more? less?
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That's very likely GPU limited. You don't see games getting CPU limited until they're in the 100's for FPS. Unless you're talking across several generations of CPUs. Then there can be a significant difference at all resolutions/FPS.
 
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
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You're mimicking MisterX perfectly. A bit too perfectly maybe?
 
Falcon511 said:
Not too sure why people want Windows out of the picture when it comes to PC gaming. I mean as far as im concerned i dont know many good alternatives. Steam box isnt really a good one as of right now and probably wont be for the foreseeable future.

Is PC gaming really that bad with MS? I dont think so. I have a huge backlog of games from before the XP days with the jedi knight series, Doom. I dont see anything from Valve that indicates these games will be playable on a future steam box.

Directx, xbox one, and windows isnt going anywhere for a long time. Im not sure the doom and gloom everyone wants is ever going to happen.
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Well said. It will take years, upon years for Steam O/S too even be competitive with OS X for gaming. To be honest I do not just want to be stuck in "Gabe's World", when I can have the option of keeping my game library from 20 years ago.
 
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
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This post was brought to you thanks to the power of the cloud.
 
Handy Fake said:
To be honest, yes necessarily.
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I mean what are they going to tell the general public? "Xbox One games to look incredibly better, coming Holiday 2015!" No, I don't think so.

I'm more interested in the technical aspects of how DX12 could benefit X1 and what it means for future X1 games.
 
Erimriv said:
Please explain this to me, what that 50% increase in CPU performance would mean for a game like Titanfall on Xbox One, same resolution as it stands now and a rock solid 60 fps? anything more? less?
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Xbone already has most of those features.
 
KOHIPEET said:
You're mimicking MisterX perfectly. A bit too perfectly maybe?
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nah not enough typos. and he does occasionally use a period.

i get why people are frustrated at the mention of misterxmedia but he's so hard to resist, it's too crazy

like.. he thought the XII logo was a blatant hint at a dual-layer GPU... because X for Xbox.. and then the two I's show TWO LAYERS ITS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU

I am not making this up. but he is
 
Nerfgun said:
nah not enough typos. and he does occasionally use a period.

i get why people are frustrated at the mention of misterxmedia but he's so hard to resist, it's too crazy

like.. he thought the XII logo was a blatant hint at a dual-layer GPU... because X for Xbox.. and then the two I's show TWO LAYERS ITS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU

I am not making this up. but he is
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I read him on a daily basis. Even if there is a decent chance that he's just trolling.

But sometimes I laugh so hard!
 
El_Chino said:
I mean what are they going to tell the general public? "Xbox One games to look incredibly better, coming Holiday 2015!" No, I don't think so.

I'm more interested in the technical aspects of how DX12 could benefit X1 and what it means for future X1 games.
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Penello and co. have hardly been shy with anything they can come up with that puts a positive slant on the XB1. Why the Hell would they shut up now? ;)
 
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
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denzel-laughl.gif


Good shit. GAF never disappoints.

But seriously, it's cool that the bone will likely get some kind of benefit from this.
 
El_Chino said:
So what does this mean for the X1?
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I was thinking this too, other than cross compatibility I don't think they really showed what it has to offer the Xbox One as it sounds like this is pretty much the same as the Mono Driver mentioned before the consoles release.

Also am I the only one confused that they showed of Froza 5 on a PC running on a crazy high end graphics card? Made it sound like they the Forza engine would have struggled without a leaner driver even on a monster of of PC.
 
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
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This.

SUCK IT, SONY PONIES
 
On Demand said:
All Sony emplyee's jumping ship weak GPU MS have trick up sleeve Sony emplyee's didn't leave because fired or new opportunities they leave because they know what MS will soon announce Amy didn't get pushed out by Neil Drunkman and Bruce Stranglemeplease she left because she know Sony ship sinking going over to MS Sony lies are over no more brainwashing the public N4G Neogaf paid ponies will cry tears and MS will drink it all up while sitting on throne Sony think they smart by lying about 4gig and VGleaks specs to trick MS to use weak hardware but MS play smarter game by having more powerful GPU 3.2 TF DX12 GPU after Sony PS4 announcement they make developers sign contract to not speak about until MS ready they gave developers 3 levels access only level 3 know true power don't want to risk information getting out MS will show everybody the real power of Xbox One and Sony ponies will be stuck with outdated GPU.
Click to expand...

ZP9JY.gif
 
Erimriv said:
Please explain this to me, what that 50% increase in CPU performance would mean for a game like Titanfall on Xbox One, same resolution as it stands now and a rock solid 60 fps? anything more? less?
Click to expand...

Didn't they say it was a 50% decrease in CPU usage?

Meaning whatever percentage of your CPU was tied up by DirectX 11 will now be halved. If you had a beast CPU that only used 10% of its power on DirectX, now it will use 5%.

That's why it's people with weak CPUs that are getting the biggest performance increases with Mantle.
 
heyf00L said:
Didn't they say it was a 50% decrease in CPU usage?

Meaning whatever percentage of your CPU was tied up by DirectX 11 will now be halved. If you had a beast CPU that only used 10% of its power on DirectX, now it will use 5%.

That's why it's people with weak CPUs that are getting the biggest performance increases with Mantle.
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Yup.

CPUs are never the bottlenecks on games. But it's nice to get the usage down. 50% more GPU power would be a fuckload of difference compared to halving the CPU time.
 
Quadraphonic said:
Yup.

CPUs are never the bottlenecks on games. But it's nice to get the usage down. 50% more GPU power would be a fuckload of difference compared to halving the CPU time.
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Never? Play with a weak/old enough machine and you get that.
Or Planetside 2 pre-December patch... EDIT or what patch was it?

So no word about Win7 DX12. Is it possible MS will add the support quietly will never mention it, only advertise "DX12 on Win 8"?
 
heyf00L said:
Didn't they say it was a 50% decrease in CPU usage?

Meaning whatever percentage of your CPU was tied up by DirectX 11 will now be halved. If you had a beast CPU that only used 10% of its power on DirectX, now it will use 5%.

That's why it's people with weak CPUs that are getting the biggest performance increases with Mantle.
Click to expand...

At the same time, though, shouldn't this also benefit multicore CPUs? I thought they specifically said this.
 
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