Fatal Error
Neo Member
I mean this, at 1:15,
http://youtu.be/NL4ZxDWLwpM?t=1m15s
I think he removed this scene, unless if we can go back to camp omega in TPP.
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MGSV: Ground Zeroes - Spoilers Thread - #TeamBowie
- Thread starter Batzi
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I mean this, at 1:15,
http://youtu.be/NL4ZxDWLwpM?t=1m15s
I think he removed this scene, unless if we can go back to camp omega in TPP.
keltickennedy
Member
I personally think that Ishmael isn't even real. He is the solider portion of Snake's psyche or something. "On your feet solider". "I've been watching over you for nine years." They are also both voiced by Kiefer Sutherland.
I discussed this a few pages back, I'm sure I read somewhere that Kojima said he's not sure if he's going to feature Camp Omega in TPP.
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On a separate note after watching the extended E3 trailer for the 1 millionth time I just wanted to say Kaz has some awesome lines:
Then obviously:
I haven't read all the backstory or listened to the tapes, so can someone just explain why Chico was in a prison camp and tortured and all fucked up with bolts in his ankles?
It's been years since I played Peace Walker, so I don't remember what happened to him at the end but I just assume he's stayed around with Big Boss or something on Mother Base?
Also how long after Peace Walker does this game take place? The Paz stuff about her washing up on shore after the end of Peace Walker and then transferred to this prison makes it sound like it's only been a week or two since the end of Peace Walker. But then Chico and Paz are so fucked up from all the torturing it seems like it'd have to be longer than that.
Just kind of confused at the timeline from the end of Peace Walker to the start of GZ.
It's been years since I played Peace Walker, so I don't remember what happened to him at the end but I just assume he's stayed around with Big Boss or something on Mother Base?
Also how long after Peace Walker does this game take place? The Paz stuff about her washing up on shore after the end of Peace Walker and then transferred to this prison makes it sound like it's only been a week or two since the end of Peace Walker. But then Chico and Paz are so fucked up from all the torturing it seems like it'd have to be longer than that.
Just kind of confused at the timeline from the end of Peace Walker to the start of GZ.
The "Sent us to hell, but we're going even deeper" line is one of the more badass things I've ever heard or read in fiction.
Kaz has a pretty good one in a side-op, too. "His buddy's going to hell, don't let him travel alone".
KittenMaster
Member
The main briefing tapes do mention it. They were allowing a lot of the previous Peace Walker characters were leaving to return back to their lives, and this included Amanda and Chico. As you know from Peace Walker, Chico is very brash and willing to stick his neck out into things he shouldn't be getting himself into, and his Omega Camp just happened to be roughly 40 or so miles away from the road he was on (Chico has a lot of experience travelling long distances through mountainous terrain which explains how he was able to make such a trip). He wanted to get Paz back.
plasmawave
Banned
My theory, Huey double crossed Boss that's why he's getting tortured in the TPP trailer.
I'd say Kaz goes nuts and rounds up + interrogates everyone they can think of that might've had something to do with the attack, with Big Boss' consent. Leading people to view Big Boss as a 'monster'.
matrix-cat
Member
The Huey-as-double-agent idea certainly has some evidence to back it up. Personally rescinding Kaz and BB's refusal of the nuclear inspection behind their backs is bad enough, but hiding ZEKE on the ocean floor is the most damning bit for me. We know that Chico breaks and tells Skull Face about ZEKE, and presumably Skull Face wouldn't attack Mother Base if they had a Metal Gear ready and waiting. It's all too easy to infer that Skull Face made a quick call to Huey and told him to do something about it.
Of course, maybe Huey really does just want MSF to be respected on the world stage. I can totally see Kojima throwing all that stuff in as a red herring. I really like the idea that Kaz and Big Boss are going to go down this road of paranoia and ruthlessness in TPP that we, the players, aren't going to want to join them on.
Of course, maybe Huey really does just want MSF to be respected on the world stage. I can totally see Kojima throwing all that stuff in as a red herring. I really like the idea that Kaz and Big Boss are going to go down this road of paranoia and ruthlessness in TPP that we, the players, aren't going to want to join them on.
plasmawave
Banned
And Huey commits suicide because of his guilt for betraying Big Boss?
Or murdered and made to look like a suicide?
Or murdered and made to look like a suicide?
Love Deterrence
Member
I was idling at the Mission Select menu after the Intel Operative Rescue mission and Kojima-san started randomizing my mission selection! I'm sure it's been brought up here, but I got a kick out of that. ^_^
Im pretty sure Otacon was a adult when his father committed suicide so he would have waited a long time for it to get to him.
Also the reason for his suicide was explained in detail in MGS2, although that doesn't definately disprove anything, particularly with Kojima's love for retcon.
Yup and Huey has to remarry to a woman named Julie. I'm basing this off MGS2. This makes Otacon and Emma step siblings.
Pretty sure the game uses that exact model of BB in the menu after you finish the main mission.You know what I just realized, this scene from the MGSV trailer isn't present in GZ, I guess he cut it or chose to show Snake looking out at a different angle.
My suspicion is that the ending cutscene in particular wasn`t quite finished by the time GZ needed to come out. There`s an awkward cut to black coupled with a stock helicopter sound between Snake talking to Huey and seeing the wreckage. Also the weird lighting, animation, & fiddle line after Snake rescues Miller.
Yeah. There is a decent sized gap in between GZ and TPP, but I don't think it's big enough to fit in properly with Hal and EE's ages.
bequietdrive
Member
So THAT scene with Paz on the helicopter - thoughts?
It definitely was shocking, but seemed unnecessary to me, and like it was only there to cause controversy/media attention. Some may argue its trying to show the horrors of war etc but still, I thought it was a bit cheap.
It definitely was shocking, but seemed unnecessary to me, and like it was only there to cause controversy/media attention. Some may argue its trying to show the horrors of war etc but still, I thought it was a bit cheap.
KittenMaster
Member
It (and the tapes) have changed how I perceive her in Peace Walker. Every moment in that game now has the context of knowing such a horrible fate will happen.
funkystudent
Member
I kind of feel like given the brief story in GZ they probably went that far because they wanted to really set the tone for this new, gritty, rated M direction for Metal Gear.
Kojima just handled it with his normally grace and subtlety..........
Everything GZ really just makes me want to see how they handle Quiet in TTP because I bet thats going to be hilariously ham fisted.
Yeah Kaz has awesome lines. The performance is really strong too. I think Kaz and Skullface have the strongest voice acting.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Skullface's reveal was disappointing, but the absolutely dry delivery combined with just how awful he actually is works so well.
I just finished it a second time, collecting patches, and my playthrough experience was so different. I still rescued Chico and Paz in order, but it was small things that changed, such as how I approached each situation, the biggest difference being powering down the admin building but then going all the way back to take a more direct route to Paz and, rather than calling the helicopter into a hot LZ, ran as fast as I could to a safer site, people shooting after me, until I got a moment to call the helicopter. It can be quite intense.
I just finished it a second time, collecting patches, and my playthrough experience was so different. I still rescued Chico and Paz in order, but it was small things that changed, such as how I approached each situation, the biggest difference being powering down the admin building but then going all the way back to take a more direct route to Paz and, rather than calling the helicopter into a hot LZ, ran as fast as I could to a safer site, people shooting after me, until I got a moment to call the helicopter. It can be quite intense.
Yeah, I'm kinda in the same boat. I just got done collecting all of Chico's tapes and listened to them and erm... not sure what to think of it.
It's one thing to show us that Skull Face put a bomb in Paz's abdomen AND after that reveal that he also put one in her private parts, but the stuff that happens in the tapes is just... gross :/. I get that Kojima wants us to feel hatred for Skull Face so we want to take "revenge" (isn't that one of the themes for TPP?) but I feel he went a little overboard with it. The bombs were enough to make me hate Skull Face, making me listen to the most horrific sorts of torture, rape and hearing Chico being forced to have sex with Paz... Just, wow. I get it, Kojima. Skull Face is a big bad meanie.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
What I find the most shocking is that Quiet's clothing caused more of a shit storm than what is depicted in Ground Zeroes.
That said, I don't find the scenes to be too much. I find them disturbing, but I think that's the point. If they make you uncomfortable in any capacity, it does the job. I think it really shows how women are often treated in parts of the world as victims of war.
That said, I don't find the scenes to be too much. I find them disturbing, but I think that's the point. If they make you uncomfortable in any capacity, it does the job. I think it really shows how women are often treated in parts of the world as victims of war.
Yeah, I thought the torture tapes were relevant and necessary, they really do a good job of showing how you can break a person down through torture. That tape where Skullface is basically having Chico beat Paz is just great, as he states "he's doing it for her own good" and then when she still refuses Skullface steps in to take him away and Chico is left asking "what did I do wrong?" Perfect, they've completely broke him at that point.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Wait, Chico was beating her in that tape?
I feel really dumb but I thought someone else was beating him. I didn't really understand the beginning part of the tape much.
BabySlayer
Banned
Questions for you MGS experts.... sorry if this was mentioned somewhere in the thread
1. At the end of GZ-- Paz: "There's another... in my..." was there a bomb inside her pussy?
2. End of GZ credits --- Paz: "Will you really kill Zero for me?" Stranger: "Not for you" .......who was she talking to?
3. Who is Cipher again? Is it a group or person? Is Cipher associated with XOF?
4. Zero was Snake's commander from MGS3 right? When did he become the enemy and is he working with Cipher now?
Please respond
Thanks!
1. At the end of GZ-- Paz: "There's another... in my..." was there a bomb inside her pussy?
2. End of GZ credits --- Paz: "Will you really kill Zero for me?" Stranger: "Not for you" .......who was she talking to?
3. Who is Cipher again? Is it a group or person? Is Cipher associated with XOF?
4. Zero was Snake's commander from MGS3 right? When did he become the enemy and is he working with Cipher now?
Please respond
Thanks!
Questions for you MGS experts.... sorry if this was mentioned somewhere in the thread
1. At the end of GZ-- Paz: "There's another... in my..." was there a bomb inside her pussy?
It's suggests as much, so yes.
Skull Face.
Cipher is Zero's group, he's the guy from MGS3 that acted as your colonel basically.
Sometime after the events of MGS3, we haven't really seen him since and neither has anyone else really. Phantom Pain should hopefully shed more light on Zero as a character so we can finally view him as a villian.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Questions for you MGS experts.... sorry if this was mentioned somewhere in the thread
1. At the end of GZ-- Paz: "There's another... in my..." was there a bomb inside her pussy?
2. End of GZ credits --- Paz: "Will you really kill Zero for me?" Stranger: "Not for you" .......who was she talking to?
3. Who is Cipher again? Is it a group or person? Is Cipher associated with XOF?
4. Zero was Snake's commander from MGS3 right? When did he become the enemy and is he working with Cipher now?
Please respond
Thanks!
1. Yes.
2. Skull Face
3. Zero. Unconfirmed but given that Skull Face seems to work for Cipher likely.
4. Yes. After MGS3? Difference of opinions between how the world should be between Zero and Big Boss.
AgentLampshade
Member
Regarding Skull Face: What is the language he spoke in Tape...5? It was only one small phrase.
Hungarian, if I remember well.
Rogue Agent
Banned
Also, Hungary seems to have oil fields and was attacked too once in the past. So maybe his story is true.
My very basic understanding of Cipher and Skullface:
Skullface is a Cipher agent and the commander of XOF. I'm unsure if the two agencies are linked. But Skullface doesn't fully believe in all of Cipher's ideals.
So it's going to be interesting to see how who turns out to be the main protagonist.
Skullface is a Cipher agent and the commander of XOF. I'm unsure if the two agencies are linked. But Skullface doesn't fully believe in all of Cipher's ideals.
So it's going to be interesting to see how who turns out to be the main protagonist.
Yes, Kaz admits at the end of PW that he knew who Paz and Zadornov really were and that he knew about Zero. He was using them to expand MSF which he sees as the business of the future. However, he seems absolutely loyal to Big Boss the question is why does he ultimately turn on BB as per his appearance in MG2 and MGS1 (kinda) if he really ever turned at all. Afterall, Kaz is usually the one advocating the most extreme measures to BB and took glee with the idea of getting Paz back to ring some information out of her by any means necessary, so it kinda seems odd he would later perceive BB as a monster.
My theory is that it will be explained that he only pretended to defect from BB and was always working for him secretly. Or an even crazier theory? The bandaged guy from the trailers is actually a Miller doppelganger, as opposed to a BB one as others have theorized.
That's about right, from everything in the game and the events of GZ it seems like Skullface was part of Cipher/Zero's group but has since now defected and plans to kill and bring down both Zero and Big Boss through his XOF unit. It also seems clear that he and Big Boss and most likely Zero as well have some sort of shared history. However, my theory is that this is not some character from a previous game but a new character and that their history probably occurred off-screen, probably in the time between MGS3 and PW when BB joins with Zero and forms the Patriots.
I doubt you will be able to create a character. Kojima wouldn't introduce a character that you create that is involved in the story. I assume you will be able to customize a soldier like in Peace Walker or MGO, but I wouldn't bet on customizing faces. Plus, arent most people in the game based off of real people?
i don't think there being long continuous shots proves that there's another 'hidden' character. kojima is a film buff and takes a lot of inspirtation from cinema, right? that kind of cinematography can be found in films, and is used by Alfonso Cuarón and Emmanuel Lubezki in films like Children of Men and Gravity, which Kojima really liked.
I thought that both the opening and closing cutscenes were really, really poor by Kojima's standards. The opening cutscene was dull, and having two unknown characters talking over a tracking shot was a terrible way to introduce you to the story, even if you'd just finished Peace Walker. For those who hadn't, it was almost unfollowable, and Kaz and Snake sound too similar. The ending cutscene felt unfinished, and the emotion of
the base being destroyed
Kaz's reaction was also just 'off' somehow. 'Give it back!' What the fuck is he talking about?
I also don't know why anyone assumes anything about where
the other bomb was. Could be anywhere. He should have left that line out, though. It adds nothing, unless it turns out it was in her heart cavity
BabySlayer
Banned
Thanks!
But wait... I thought Skull Face was on Zero/Cipher's side?
Who is XOF then? Are they another new group who's enemies with BB?
Hey, this is a neat theory. Even if the camera just represented the player briefly.
I also wouldn't discount Ocelot's involvement. He would be the type to be extremely thorough about it even coaxing Kaz to action.
RedAssedApe
Banned
Did you beat peace walker?
Yes, but some time ago. Maybe I should re-watch it.
He was an agent of Cipher that defected at some point.
I don't think they are enemies with BB. You see them arriving at what I assume is the new Mother Base, in the trailer for TPP(The scene where they get out of the helicopter and he makes his men lower their guns).
It doesn't make sense that Zero idolizes BB and would send a group to kill him. What I think happened is that Skullface attacked Big Boss to draw Cipher out of hiding and come after him.
He would have killed Big Boss if Paz didn't tell him where Zero was.
Thats my wacky theory, anyway.
If you played PW then you'll know why.
After the Boss AI makes Peace Walker walk into the ocean to prevent a nuclear war, Strangelove remarks that she put down her gun and chose peace. Snake considers this the Boss rejecting him as he himself is a gun. He takes off his bandana during this scene and throws it away.
skull face is kind of a double agent from what i can gather, but he doesn't seem to be working for anybody but himself.
he's working for zero but at the same time wants to kill him, either to take the power for himself, or just to rid the world of cypher as an organisation.
it seems he's going to be playing big boss against zero for his own gain.
Not quite, this time around.
You know I was thinking of that exact same clip when I typed that.