Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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I'd love to find an xm29. I check every day or two on Craigslist and never have any luck. Considering I'm the only person that seems to be stockpiling PVMs I don't think I have to worry too much about anyone else picking it up before me.

Phonedork actually makes very good quality videos. I enjoy watching them even if he gets stuff wrong occasionally.
 
So apparently there isn't any consumer-grade CRT TV that supports both light-gun games and 480p in the same unit? I mean, my understanding is this:

HD CRT: supports 480p and 1080i. Might do some upscaling. Light-gun games do not work.
SD CRT: Maxes out at 480i. No upscaling, light-gun games work great.

And here I thought that there were CRTs that maxed out at 480p - while EDTV was a thing, it wasn't really consumer-grade (and I'm not sure it was ever CRT). I feel mildly let down. Not like I was really hunting for a CRT anyway, since I have an XRGB-mini, but still.
 
We had a CRT that was widescreen, maxed out at 480p, and worked with lightguns. We had two actually. One was a Panasonic and one was a Sanyo I think,. They both had a great picture. They also let you keep 4:3 if you wanted to.
 
My XRGB-Mini arrived today. I've tried the SNES, Saturn and PS2 and I'm very impressed with the results so far.

PS2 was kinda of a pain to set up at first but now it works pretty much flawlessly (original Playstation D-terminal). I was kinda worried about input lag at first but I dunno, I did a full run of Bust a Groove and Guitar Freaks V3 and I didn't drop a single command so even though there is input lag, it's not too bad.

For those with the mini, what's your scanlines thickness preference? How do you balance the thickness without making the screen look too dark, Increase brightness?
 
Does anyone know if this would work as a switch box for JP21 Cables on the Framemeister?

I've been having no luck finding a Selecty 21, for about a month now and this seems a bit suspect compared to the Selecty.

If anyone has any info on a switch box for RGB21 cables, I really appreciate it.
 
Hey guys, I picked up a SCART RGB to HDMI earlier but it has proven to me that its worthless, since it doesn't provide the best possible picture for my consoles, and it won't work at all with my NES.

My question is, if I wanted to pick up an XRGB product, which one would I get? XRGB-3 or Framemeister? Apparently the mini is the best for 480p signals, so does that mean it's best with GCN/PS2/Xbox Original/DC, while the rest are best with xrgb 3?
 
GayForMaster said:
Hey guys, I picked up a SCART RGB to HDMI earlier but it has proven to me that its worthless, since it doesn't provide the best possible picture for my consoles, and it won't work at all with my NES.

My question is, if I wanted to pick up an XRGB product, which one would I get? XRGB-3 or Framemeister? Apparently the mini is the best for 480p signals, so does that mean it's best with GCN/PS2/Xbox Original/DC, while the rest are best with xrgb 3?
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xrgb mini without a fucking doubt.
 
richisawesome said:
It's the setting on the visual menu called SCAN_A. It's a fucking pain in the arse because my SNES, N64, Gamecube and Mega Drive all look fine with the SCAN_A set to 32, whereas the PS1 has fucked scanlines unless it's set to 33 for reasons beyond me. And the XRGB Mini doesn't have profiles, so I have to change the setting each time I switch between the PS1 and other consoles

ah well. Just tried Street Fighter Alpha 3 on the PS1 and it looks fucking fantastic:







So yeah, PS1 has by far the best image out of all of my retro consoles. I shouldn't be surprised, really.
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Are these CRT 240p images from the xrgbMini? Love all the shots you've posted, Rich and everyone else in this thread.
 
Dizzy-4U said:
For those with the mini, what's your scanlines thickness preference? How do you balance the thickness without making the screen look too dark, Increase brightness?
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I have mine set to 93, I like them subtle ala a real crt, just having scanline one will darken the overall image, I up the contrast a bit but it will always look darker than with no scanlines.
 
Finally got my cables from retrogamingcables.com today.

Holyyyyyyyyyy shit does my PC engine duo look incredible. I've never ever seen anything like it. I'm seriously stunned. Interestingly enough I don't see a big difference on my snes going from s-video to rgb. Is this typical for others? Pics below.

Also...does anyone know if the output for a duo is the same as a genesis 1? They look the same but I couldn't get the cord to easily fit in my genesis. I didn't want to force it! Now I need to get an inexpensive scart switch box, as I'll be buying scart cables for my saturn and genesis.

CYLM1Ui.jpg
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DKqo4vw.jpg
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Not the same outputs. You wouldn't want to do that anyway because they'll send different pinouts. If one sent a color that was 5v on the other, it would ruin your equipment.
 
baphomet said:
Not the same outputs. You wouldn't want to do that anyway because they'll send different pinouts. If one sent a color that was 5v on the other, it would ruin your equipment.
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That's what I figured. They just look similar. Any recommendation on a reliable scart switch?
 
Superblatt said:
Finally got my cables from retrogamingcables.com today.

Holyyyyyyyyyy shit does my PC engine duo look incredible. I've never ever seen anything like it. I'm seriously stunned. Interestingly enough I don't see a big difference on my snes going from s-video to rgb. Is this typical for others? Pics below.

Also...does anyone know if the output for a duo is the same as a genesis 1? They look the same but I couldn't get the cord to easily fit in my genesis. I didn't want to force it! Now I need to get an inexpensive scart switch box, as I'll be buying scart cables for my saturn and genesis.
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Get the Brandbridge switch. Cheapest and high quality.
S-video on a PVM generally looks pretty good. But I get a huge difference between s-video and RGB on my PVMs. If it is not a 1-chip snes, then you already get problems with blurriness. But still looks way better in RGB.
Also being on a 19" screen tends to make things look better, a bigger screen (25" or greater) and you can see video artifacts more.
For instance a snes 1-chip on my pvm 2030 looks great in both rgb and s-video, the s-video has obvious noise in it though. On my pvm 2950Q it looks waaay different. You can see the noise quite severely and even though it is calibrated the colors are just not as rich.
If you don't see a difference between s-video and rgb, then I'd say your rgb could look alot better after calibrating and/or re-capping.
 
HaL64 said:
Get the Brandbridge switch. Cheapest and high quality.
S-video on a PVM generally looks pretty good. But I get a huge difference between s-video and RGB on my PVMs. If it is not a 1-chip snes, then you already get problems with blurriness. But still looks way better in RGB.
Also being on a 19" screen tends to make things look better, a bigger screen (25" or greater) and you can see video artifacts more.
For instance a snes 1-chip on my pvm 2030 looks great in both rgb and s-video, the s-video has obvious noise in it though. On my pvm 2950Q it looks waaay different. You can see the noise quite severely and even though it is calibrated the colors are just not as rich.
If you don't see a difference between s-video and rgb, then I'd say your rgb could look alot better after calibrating and/or re-capping.
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Thanks. While I can see that rgb is better than s-video, I'm willing to bet it's because my snes is definitely not a 1-chip. I've been trying to hunt one down but haven't found one yet. I've considered getting a snes mini that's modded for rgb, as I've heard those have the best quality overall.
 
Anyone have any idea if I can daisy chain three of the Hama 101 boxes together? Read a few accounts of people doing two of them and it sounds like they never had a problem.I guess it's just more of an increased chance of the signal getting degraded somewhere since you'd be relying on potentially three switch boxes to function properly, depending on what system you used.
 
Superblatt said:
Finally got my cables from retrogamingcables.com today.

Holyyyyyyyyyy shit does my PC engine duo look incredible. I've never ever seen anything like it. I'm seriously stunned. Interestingly enough I don't see a big difference on my snes going from s-video to rgb. Is this typical for others? Pics below.

Also...does anyone know if the output for a duo is the same as a genesis 1? They look the same but I couldn't get the cord to easily fit in my genesis. I didn't want to force it! Now I need to get an inexpensive scart switch box, as I'll be buying scart cables for my saturn and genesis.
Click to expand...

Don't know if I'm correct in saying this but I think a 1CHIP snes (motherboard revision) provides a substantial difference in video quality over other motherboard revisions (1CHIP being the best), but that's for model 1. The absolute best picture provided comes from a Mini JR (modded for RGB output), but I read that the 1CHIP can step up to Mini's level with some more modding. Yours might not be 1CHIP.

I opened my SNES recently and discovered it wasn't a 1CHIP, so I promptly sold it. It's not a guarantee but apparently an SNES is likely to be a 1CHIP if their serial number ranges from UN30xx - UN32xx.

I hope that helps with anything...? heh.

I've got a question myself to ask, I've been using a CVID RGB to SCART converter that I got from amazon... while it makes the picture look great, it has its problems and it doesn't even work with my NES. PSX looked and 64 looked really good, SNES could have been better (assuming because it wasn't 1chip), but it wasn't enough to satisfy me. I promptly sold it and I'm finally deciding to just grab the framemeister, but I'm wondering, does the framemeister work with an RGB NES? My NES was modded but I'm afraid it's composite functionality was wiped out. It only has an AV out that does RGB. I don't know, I get the feeling that my NES might not work!


Also, this link...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcgdsIrg0EM

Holy shit, just looking at Mario Tennis makes my hair stand up. I can't believe how fucking amazing it looks.
 
Superblatt said:
That's what I figured. They just look similar. Any recommendation on a reliable scart switch?
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0015YYN1W/

Doujindance adds extra pins to the standard PCE Duo pinout for RGB, so that the resulting port is backwards compatible with the stock composite cable. The end result doesn't match the SMS/Genesis1 pins.

PROTIP: label all your circular plug SCART cables so you don't plug them to the wrong console by mistake
 
antibolo said:
PROTIP: label all your circular plug SCART cables so you don't plug them to the wrong console by mistake
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I did this with my Genesis 1 and Neo Geo CD RGB cables, lol. They're on opposite sides of my switch box, but I don't ever want to get them confused if I change my setup.
 
Superblatt said:
Thanks. While I can see that rgb is better than s-video, I'm willing to bet it's because my snes is definitely not a 1-chip. I've been trying to hunt one down but haven't found one yet. I've considered getting a snes mini that's modded for rgb, as I've heard those have the best quality overall.
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I have a couple rgb modded snes mini's for sale if you want one. I sent you a PM.
 
IrishNinja said:
because it's awesome and ur wrong
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I have to admit, before owning the Framemeister, I too doubted its asking price. From the outside looking in, its seems very steep, especially when all you can go by is pics and video's on the web.

After coming to the realization that I will probably never have enough room for a stand alone CRT, I decided to take the plunge with the mini.

Had I been able to see the Minis' effect in person, I would have purchased one MUCH sooner. The difference is amazing, so much so that even my friend was impressed, and he usually is ambivalent to picture quality differences. If you like really retro games, and own a flat screen, this is almost a must have imo. It's just that good.
 
Well... since I've already doomed myself by restoring my NES, I may as well continue walking this path to hell. After going in, cleaning in, replacing the 72-pin connector, and disabling the NES10, I'm left with a fully working system but with terrible composite mess on my TV. I know the NES isn't a simple beast to turn RGB (I do not have the talent to try and solder something so complex, and I'm wary about sending my freshly restored system anywhere) so since there are a lot of experts here....

What is my best bet to get the best image quality from it without an RGB mod? Noting that after I finish off all of this NES fun, I'll be switching over to my SNES (as soon as I pry it from my elder brother's clutches and find a new power adapter for it) NTSC consoles and TVs. While I do have access to an older CRT (35 or 39 inch I do believe, I'll have to check that later), I'll probably be running them mostly on our HDTVs.
 
honestly if i wasn't gonna RGB mod my NES i'd say wait to see how that analogue one pans out, or uh...maybe the Retron 5 if that's alright by you
 
I can't find my soldering gun. Would a rinky dinky cheap soldering gun work for the three soldering points on the N64 RGB mod? Harbor Freight has one with a tip that looks like it would work for 3.99
 
crossposting from snes thread

yes! got my RGB modded mini today from fellow GAFer HaL64! Cost £20 at customs but fuck it! it's amazing

i2SHG4DMA2t7B.PNG
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i0DUU5Ux41Kno.PNG
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dat clarity. now I'm satisfied with my retro-setup. I've got the definitive version of each of my favourite consoles. sweet.

recommended
 
^ HOT. Congrats. It's the best possible SNES/SFC model if it's modded for RGB, isn't it? Does it avoid the "white bar" in the middle of the picture? (prominent in games like Super Metroid on most SNES models).

Tonight was a major retro gaming nostalgia fest for me.... Listening to CoachKevin's Back in my Play, reading CBRs of EGM from 1992 (my earliest game publication memories), searching ebay for PVMs, checking the cost of NESRGB and flash carts.... ;_; Meanwhile my stuff is in storage in another city.
 
BocoDragon said:
^ HOT. Congrats. It's the best possible SNES/SFC model if it's modded for RGB, isn't it? Does it have the "white bar" in the middle of the picture (prominant in games like Super Metroid).
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nope! I've checked the games that it appear in most prominently (Super Metroid and dark areas of Yoshi's Island) and there's nothing to be seen. it's crisp throughout, no artifacts at all.

My SFC had a fant white bar (took a while to spot it), blurry image and a HUGE amount of noise/static. This has none of that.
 
richisawesome said:
nope! I've checked the games that it appear in most prominently (Super Metroid and dark areas of Yoshi's Island) and there's nothing to be seen. it's crisp throughout, no artifacts at all.

My SFC had a fant white bar (took a while to spot it), blurry image and a HUGE amount of noise/static. This has none of that.
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I guess you've reached the highest level of SNES perfection! Congrats!

The white bar doesn't really bother me on my SNES and SFC with RGB but.... you better believe I'll chase that dragon and get a SNES mini mod eventually ;)

First the priority is NES/Famicom though. Composite :/ :/
 
My SNES has a slightly corrupted picture (probably a dead bit in the video RAM) but it's my childhood SNES so I can't bring myself to replace it with another one. It's the only classic console I still own that was not bought used.
 
I was playing Mario 64 upscaled through a framemeister the other day on the Wii via the Virtual Console. I'm really blown away by how good it looks. It would have been amazing to see it at this level of clarity at launch. Makes me want to get an RGB modded N64.
 
Cross posting from the SNES thread:

Is RGB that big of a jump in quality over s-video on an SNES model 1 on a LCD? Right now I have my genesis running in RGB through a SCART-HDMI box and the clarity and colors are way better than the SNES through S-video. I'm thinking about getting a SCART cable for the SNES, but undecided whether it's worth the $20 or so. S-video is ok but the colors are washed out, especially even compared to the Wii's VC running over component cables. I've also notice a bit of muddying around the edges in s-video too.
 
mikespit1200 said:
Cross posting from the SNES thread:

Is RGB that big of a jump in quality over s-video on an SNES model 1 on a LCD? Right now I have my genesis running in RGB through a SCART-HDMI box and the clarity and colors are way better than the SNES through S-video. I'm thinking about getting a SCART cable for the SNES, but undecided whether it's worth the $20 or so. S-video is ok but the colors are washed out, especially even compared to the Wii's VC running over component cables. I've also notice a bit of muddying around the edges in s-video too.
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No doubt rgb will provide a cleaner signal on snes than s video. I can't speak to what kind of results you will get from the converter approach, as most people here tend to use a framemeister or rgb monitor, like I do.

Keep in mind a good portion of your snes video quality will depend in your snes itself. If it's not a 1-chip or modded mini you'll get bluriness. I've been experiencing that myself and have just ordered a mini.
 
Superblatt said:
No doubt rgb will provide a cleaner signal on snes than s video. I can't speak to what kind of results you will get from the converter approach, as most people here tend to use a framemeister or rgb monitor, like I do.

Keep in mind a good portion of your snes video quality will depend in your snes itself. If it's not a 1-chip or modded mini you'll get bluriness. I've been experiencing that myself and have just ordered a mini.
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It's weird when I switch back to a snes with the bluriness. I get this weird nostalgic feeling. Feels more like the original I remember as a kid. But I get sick of it after awhile and go back to my 1-chip. :)
 
I guess I did it right going basically straight to a modded mini. I may have had an original style SNES for 2-3 months before I got my mini from a poster on here and modded it.
 
Maybe this has already been covered in the thread, but has anyone ever had trouble with the scanlines over RGB on their Framemeister? I sat down to play some SNES tonight and turned on scanlines, but whenever the screen starts scrolling the picture kind of starts breaking apart and tearing in parts, it's terrible. Same thing happened on RGB PS1. It doesn't happen on systems using the D-terminal input so I have no clue why it is doing this. I tried changing a bunch of settings and resetting the Framemeister but nothing worked.
 
Voliko said:
Maybe this has already been covered in the thread, but has anyone ever had trouble with the scanlines over RGB on their Framemeister? I sat down to play some SNES tonight and turned on scanlines, but whenever the screen starts scrolling the picture kind of starts breaking apart and tearing in parts, it's terrible. Same thing happened on RGB PS1. It doesn't happen on systems using the D-terminal input so I have no clue why it is doing this. I tried changing a bunch of settings and resetting the Framemeister but nothing worked.
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It might be your cables. I used to have problems with my PS1 until i switched cables. What kind of snes are you using? What region? Using a stock snes AC?
 
brainpann said:
It might be your cables. I used to have problems with my PS1 until i switched cables. What kind of snes are you using? What region? Using a stock snes AC?
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It's a model 1 US SNES, not a 1chip. Using the same adaptor that came with it when it came out. I got both the PS1 and SNES cables from retro_console_accessories and I haven't heard any issues about their cables, but it might be worth a shot. Kind of hard to believe both cables would be the issue though. Maybe the scart to mini-din adaptor?
 
Voliko said:
It's a model 1 US SNES, not a 1chip. Using the same adaptor that came with it when it came out. I got both the PS1 and SNES cables from retro_console_accessories and I haven't heard any issues about their cables, but it might be worth a shot. Kind of hard to believe both cables would be the issue though. Maybe the scart to mini-din adaptor?
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I have had an issue with their euro scart to framemeister connector with sync booster-specifically with my snes. After i removed the sync booster, everything was fine. What kind of cables did you buy? Has this always been an issue?
 
brainpann said:
I have had an issue with their euro scart to framemeister connector with sync booster-specifically with my snes. After i removed the sync booster, everything was fine. What kind of cables did you buy? Has this always been an issue?
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I have the same one. Is removing the booster an easy thing to do? I've had a Mini for a while but I had never really used the scanline feature before so I'm just noticing this now.
 
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