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[StuBurns]

That's it, I fucking quit. lol

If you're incapable of maintaining a discussion, I think that's for the best.

 

[OrangeJulius]

If you're incapable of maintaining a discussion, I think that's for the best.

Good gravy man it was a joke. I was laughing with you, not at you.

It really must be true that the average human being just can't comprehend satire. It was a social commentary man. You know? Like how women can't rock a buzz cut or society will consider them manly and unattractive. My comment was a joke poking fun at that.

 

[Jado]

For those with racial preferences against certain races, can you articulate what you find unattractive about that race?

For example, "I find black women unattractive because....". Thanks in advance.

Yeah, I think it's important to turn it into a question that really digs into the core of someone's racial preferences and dislikes. I think more people rely on racist stereotypes than they realize or don't know the extent to which they're conditioned into thinking X is Beautiful, Y is not.

 

[StuBurns]

Good gravy man it was a joke. I was laughing with you, not at you.

So you don't think it's to challenge the perception of female sexuality?

I can't think of any instances of famous women doing it outside of for film roles or whatever, but the resulting discussion is always about masculinity in women. I remember all the discussion about Demi Moore in GI Jane pretty well, and it there was a lot of that.

I'm sorry I didn't know you were joking, but I thought it was an interesting point people had raised in terms of certain women being perceived as 'passive'.

 

[ishibear]

I can't help but wonder if that helps feed into the bitter black woman stereotype too. I'm not bitter, but I know many women who are and are always have to reassert the idea that black is beautiful, since no one else is saying that.

Well, I advise every woman (no matter her 'race') to carry herself with her head held high. Let your beauty speak for itself, let your personality and charm draw people in and your brilliance exceed expectations. Then, there's nothing to dispute.

There's no need for shame. The entire world doesn't have to like the way we look. As long as we love ourselves, others will learn to love us too or they're free to skate elsewhere.

I'm black. Most will assume otherwise because they don't believe in a black woman being anything but a stereotype.

But with each passing day, we're proving them wrong.

 

[entremet]

"Race" is too broad of a term. It's also inaccurate. There is only one human race with genetic variations.

So I really don't have racial preferences since I reject the notion of race flat out.

But I've been physically attracted to women of many ethnic backgrounds.

 

[ishibear]

Lol I'm Asian and what I MEANT to say was that it was ironic that some Asian women don't date Asian men who want them to be submissive and then want to date white men thinking the grass is greener....when some of those white men are looking for a submissive Asian stereotype.

Okie dokie then. :3

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

Yeah, I think it's important to turn it into a question that really digs into the core of someone's racial preferences and dislikes. I think more people rely on racist stereotypes than they realize or don't know the extent to which they're conditioned into thinking X is Beautiful, Y is not.

I think this was the point of the thread itself. And bolded is exactly what people are trying to deflect. Reading what Grizz added to the reason why he likes Asians was ironically funny because the features outside of eyes were the only difference that his preference had over other women. Everything else was exactly the same.

 

[aly]

Well, I advise every woman (no matter her 'race') to carry herself with her head held high. Let your beauty speak for itself, let your personality and charm draw people in and your brilliance exceed expectations. Then, there's nothing to dispute.

There's no need for shame. The entire world doesn't have to like the way we look. As long as we love ourselves, others will learn to love us too or they're free to skate elsewhere.

I'm black. Most will assume otherwise because they don't believe in a black woman being anything but a stereotype.

But with each passing day, we're proving them wrong.

I agree with you completely. But it is a little depressing to hear that the features you were born with aren't considered attractive by the majority.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Saying "I don't find black people attractive." implies all black people look the same and that is racist. If you don't want to sound racist then don't make broad gerenalizations.
"I don't find woman with kinky hair attractive" isn't racist but "I don't like kinky hair so I'm not attracted to black women" is.
One implies all black woman have kinky hair and that's not true.

No it doesn't. We've already proven that by pointing out that some people just don't like darker skin tones. Not to mention that later on the same poster said he also was not attracted to dark skinned Italians.

 

[Madness]

Yeah, I think it's important to turn it into a question that really digs into the core of someone's racial preferences and dislikes. I think more people rely on racist stereotypes than they realize or don't know the extent to which they're conditioned into thinking X is Beautiful, Y is not.

Problem with this line of thought is that it also tends to project onto everyone else, your own thoughts and beliefs. The amount of people saying, that you only like this because you're conditioned to think this way because of the media etc, or historical realities. How can you even quantify such things?

I agree people make broad generalizations here, and sure saying, I don't find X race attractive is ignorant. Racist? Maybe. What if instead of someone saying I don't find X race attractive, they said something like I don't like Dark skin? They're excluding almost the same amount of people no? Is that any better?

 

[royalan]

Problem with this line of thought is that it also tends to project onto everyone else, your own thoughts and beliefs. The amount of people saying, that you only like this because you're conditioned to think this way because of the media etc, or historical realities. How can you even quantify such things?

I agree people make broad generalizations here, and sure saying, I don't find X race attractive is ignorant. Racist? Maybe. What if instead of someone saying I don't find X race attractive, they said something like I don't like Dark skin? They're excluding almost the same amount of people no? Is that any better?

Yes. While still a little problematic, I'll admit, it's better than the wholesale dismissal of an entire race because of the few physically traits you have false attributed to every member of that race.

 

[ishibear]

I agree with you completely. But it is a little depressing to hear that the features you were born with aren't considered attractive by the majority.

That's just it tho. We all look so different that it's not absolutely possible to say majority of us fit any particular features.

And there's plenty of men who can see past the color of our skin, more than you think because luckily everyone has different perceptions of attraction. Anyone that would sorely judge a person's worth merely by the color of their skin isn't worth feeling depressed over.

Don't let them get to you. :3

 

[Zoe]

I think this was the point of the thread itself. And bolded is exactly what people are trying to deflect. Reading what Grizz added to the reason why he likes Asians was ironically funny because the features outside of eyes were the only difference that his preference had over other women. Everything else was exactly the same.

Uh, eyes aren't the only thing that makes someone's features distinctly Asian. The other features he mentioned certainly do play a factor.

 

[lefantome]

you are having aesthetic preferences over aesthetic traits

it think it's obvious, you are completely normal!

 

[Kadayi]

But this doesn't make sense. Just because people have varying preferences doesn't discount the role society plays in shaping the majority of those preferences. It's the same with just about anything that gets hyped by the media as being "the standard."

Using gaming as an example. Most FPS fans who also post on GAF would likely say that the Call of Duty is not an example of a perfect FPS, because they're more aware of other representations of the genre that exist in other games. But that doesn't change the effect that the constant media representation of Call of Duty has had on society as a whole, with a vast majority of people think CoD is THE FPS.

Are you fucking serious?

Your argument for cultural conditioning is 'look, look!! CoD is super popular'? Also whose saying that CoD is 'THE FPS' as you purport? Who? The media?

CoDs popularity is a resultant of its success as a game franchise and the reputation it's built up, as well as people enjoying it's mechanics.

SMH.....

 

[Enzom21]

No it doesn't. We've already proven that by pointing out that some people just don't like darker skin tones. Not to mention that later on the same poster said he also was not attracted to dark skinned Italians.

There are some black people who look down right white in skin tone so it's not an accurate statement, it's a generalization.

 

[StuBurns]

There are some black people who look down right white in skin tone so it's not an accurate statement, it's a generalization.

Such as?

Even if that is the case, that's still completely irrelevant, if someone says "all black people have darker skin tones", that is light years from "all black people look the same", so you're still talking nonsense.

 

[Urban Scholar]

At first I was wondering "I'm an equal opportune lover" was a silly way to call it. After reading through this thread...maybe not.

 

[royalan]

Are you fucking serious?

Your argument for cultural conditioning is 'look, look!! CoD is super popular'?

SMH.....

Yes I'm fucking serious.

The post I was responding to was supporting another poster that made the claim that, generally, because people whose preferences go against what's largely represented in society as the standard exists, their existence invalidates the claim that society/media can have a significant effect on what's socially deemed as "standard." I disagreed with this idea. The existence of counter groups doesn't invalidate the effect of the media and cultural conditioning. I drew a parallel to video games because...well, this is a video game forum, last I checked.

 

[Zeyphersan]

On a hardcore gaming forum, I don't think you're going to find a preference for Asian women very uncommon.

 

[Cedric]

To the people who aren't attracted to x race, have you ever thought about how it felt to be on the other side of that sentiment? Let's say you were only attracted to asians, and some asian person told you that they weren't attracted to people of your ethnicity, how would you feel? Would you "understand", or would that affect you in some way? I'm not trying to stir up some controversy, just wanted to know...

 

[Urban Scholar]

On a hardcore gaming forum, I don't think you're going to find a preference for Asian women very uncommon.

been the norm since internet inception!

 

[Kadayi]

Yes I'm fucking serious.

The post I was responding to was supporting another poster that made the claim that, generally, because people whose preferences go against what's largely represented in society as the standard exists, their existence invalidates the claim that society/media can have a significant effect on what's socially deemed as "standard." I disagreed with this idea. The existence of counter groups doesn't invalidate the effect of the media and cultural conditioning. I drew a parallel to video games because...well, this is a video game forum, last I checked.

Without a control group with which to gauge 'cultural impact' all arguments for and against are moot and without merit because there is no means to ascertain any verifiable data (nothing can be measured in terms of gains or absence. You can't get outside the fishbowl...). All that is being presented is hollow assertion, largely devoid of any sense of irony.

Do feel free to pseud on though. I enjoy a good laugh.

 

[royalan]

Without a control group with which to gauge 'cultural impact' all arguments for and against are moot and without merit because there is no means to ascertain any verifiable data (nothing can be measured in terms of gains or absence). All that is being presented is hollow assertion, largely devoid of any sense of irony.

Do feel free to psued on though. I enjoy a good laugh.

...ok? I fail to see your point.

 

[Sneds]

Without a control group with which to gauge 'cultural impact' all arguments for and against are moot and without merit because there is no means to ascertain any verifiable data (nothing can be measured in terms of gains or absence. You can't get outside the fishbowl...). All that is being presented is hollow assertion, largely devoid of any sense of irony.

Do feel free to psued on though. I enjoy a good laugh.

That's nonsense. We can infer the impact of the media and of social norms without measurable quantifiable data.

 

[moltonasty]

On a hardcore gaming forum, I don't think you're going to find a preference for Asian women very uncommon.

what's the correlation here? gaming forum=asian woman preference?

it's interesting, because a lot of "gamers" i've noticed do actually prefer asian women. woah....

 

[Northern Lights]

When you don't live at an area where there isn't a lot of racial diversity you tend to clinge onto one.

 

[Always-honest]

To the people who aren't attracted to x race, have you ever thought about how it felt to be on the other side of that sentiment? Let's say you were only attracted to asians, and some asian person told you that they weren't attracted to people of your ethnicity, how would you feel? Would you "understand", or would that affect you in some way? I'm not trying to stir up some controversy, just wanted to know...

I really couldn't care less. Unless other people thought i was inferiour to them as a human being. I can't force people to feel attracted to me.
But again, In most cases it's not a total lack of attraction in here. It's mostly a preference towards a certain personal ideal.

 

[DragonKnight]

Im a black male and find white women to be the most attractive. As in when i see a white girl i automatically think she has to at least be pretty. This is definitely conditioning by the media. At least in my case.

 

[Madness]

Im a black male and find white women to be the most attractive. As in when i see a white girl i automatically think she has to at least be pretty. This is definitely conditioning by the media. At least in my case.

This is interesting. That you find another race more attractive than your own, usually you find people who feel strongly about another race, tend to at least view their own in equal attractiveness.

If I may ask, without meaning any offense, what is it about white females that makes you instantly think they are prettier than the rest, including black females?

 

[Fuchsdh]

It is certainly something I find odd. My sisters for example don't find black guys attractive, and it is odd to me. I might be bias though, because black women as a group tend to be looked at as the least attractive.

According to statistics from OKCupid, Asian and Latino men have the hardest time in the dating scene (at least their dating scene, that is.)

 

[royalan]

To the people who aren't attracted to x race, have you ever thought about how it felt to be on the other side of that sentiment? Let's say you were only attracted to asians, and some asian person told you that they weren't attracted to people of your ethnicity, how would you feel? Would you "understand", or would that affect you in some way? I'm not trying to stir up some controversy, just wanted to know...

I see what you're doing here, but it's not a very fitting analogy. A more fitting one would be this:

Imagine you come from a race of people who have been enslaved and legally treated as less than human for literally hundreds of years. A people for whom "equality" is still a relatively recent thing. A people whose physical features have been construed as unattractive largely because of all this.

Now imagine how you would feel if it were a regular occurrence that people said to you, "No offense, I just don't find your people to be attractive. Don't get me wrong, it has nothing to do with any of that history or social standing mumbo jumbo. I just likes what I likes. Deal?"

 

[Log4Girlz]

To the people who aren't attracted to x race, have you ever thought about how it felt to be on the other side of that sentiment? Let's say you were only attracted to asians, and some asian person told you that they weren't attracted to people of your ethnicity, how would you feel? Would you "understand", or would that affect you in some way? I'm not trying to stir up some controversy, just wanted to know...

I'm ugly. No one is attracted to me. So no big difference there.

 

[Always-honest]

I see what you're doing here, but it's not a very fitting analogy. A more fitting one would be this:

Imagine you come from a race of people who have been enslaved and legally treated as less than human for literally hundreds of years. A people for whom "equality" is still a relatively recent thing. A people whose physical features have been construed as unattractive largely because of all this.

Now imagine how you would feel if it were a regular occurrence that people said to you, "No offense, I just don't find your people to be attractive. Don't get me wrong, it has nothing to do with any of that history or social standing mumbo jumbo. I just likes what I likes. Deal?"

But how does that work when, for instance, women don't feel attracted to asian men?

 

[ItIsOkBro]

To the people who aren't attracted to x race, have you ever thought about how it felt to be on the other side of that sentiment? Let's say you were only attracted to asians, and some asian person told you that they weren't attracted to people of your ethnicity, how would you feel? Would you "understand", or would that affect you in some way? I'm not trying to stir up some controversy, just wanted to know...

I'll just leave these OkCupid stats here...

 

[Izayoi]

Colored girls > white girls.

Undisputed scientific fact.

Unless she's a red head and SUPER pale.

 

[DragonKnight]

This is interesting. That you find another race more attractive than your own, usually you find people who feel strongly about another race, tend to at least view their own in equal attractiveness.

If I may ask, without meaning any offense, what is it about white females that makes you instantly think they are prettier than the rest, including black females?

Imagine growing up in a world where you are constantly bombarded by the idea that white girls are the best and blacks girls arent. I guess it stuck. Im not proud of it at all. Its def conditioned though. And i dont date or go after anyone. Im pretty much a loner so at least i dont act on it.

 

[OrangeJulius]

I see what you're doing here, but it's not a very fitting analogy. A more fitting one would be this:

Imagine you come from a race of people who have been enslaved and legally treated as less than human for literally hundreds of years. A people for whom "equality" is still a relatively recent thing. A people whose physical features have been construed as unattractive largely because of all this.

Now imagine how you would feel if it were a regular occurrence that people said to you, "No offense, I just don't find your people to be attractive. Don't get me wrong, it has nothing to do with any of that history or social standing mumbo jumbo. I just likes what I likes. Deal?"

I'm not disagreeing with you in any way shape or form, but you are kind of coming off like you have a serious axe to grind.

In all truth, I'd be offended by the phrase I bolded above also, but do you really feel everyone with simple aesthetic preferences are racist? What about when a black male prefers white women, like the above poster? Is he racist against his own race, is it social conditioning, or does he just have a simple preference that he can't explain? Or a combination of the above? Is he to be deplored for those preferences or pitied. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Always-honest]

Colored girls > white girls.

Undisputed scientific fact.

Unless she's a red head and SUPER pale.

i get excited just reading that.

 

[Izayoi]

i get excited just reading that.

My man! I don't know what it is, but it just drives me absolutely crazy.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Colored girls > white girls.

Undisputed scientific fact.

Unless she's a red head and SUPER pale.

Mmm pink nips

 

[Htown]

This is some bullshit.

But no, it's just an aesthetic preference, nothing else could POSSIBLY be going on, right?

 

[StuBurns]

My man! I don't know what it is, but it just drives me absolutely crazy.

Tru blud

 

[royalan]

I'm not disagreeing with you in any way shape or form, but you are kind of coming off like you have a serious axe to grind.

In all truth, I'd be offended by the phrase I bolded above also, but do you really feel everyone with simple aesthetic preferences are racist? What about when a black male prefers white women, like the above poster? Is he racist against his own race, is it social conditioning, or does he just have a simple preference that he can't explain? Or a combination of the above? Is he to be deplored for those preferences or pitied. I'm genuinely curious.

Did you read all of DragonKnight's posts? Even he's admitting that social conditioning might play a huge role in why he finds white girls more attractive than his own race.

And no, I don't think having a "preference" alone makes someone racist (although, I still don't know if I agree with people having preferences). I'm going to quote Slime's post because I think he perfectly summed up what my position has been in this thread. Read the whole thing, but the the bolded especially:

I appreciate what royalan's been doing consistently calling out a lot of the illogical and defensive replies here. So many of them are just examples of the kind of attitude some of us are criticising, poorly trying to disguise themselves as reasonable replies. I totally agree with all he's been saying about how attraction is determined in part by cultural expectations, which are in turn determined by historical and economic processes. Like he's said, the existence of personal preferences in itself isn't the thing which ultimately makes you a lesser person here - some of that is decided for us before we can make those choices ourselves. The thing that is the real problem here, on an individual level, is that when you are confronted with the very real possibility that you are ultimately being played upon by processes far larger than yourself, you just snap your eyes shut and say 'i like what i like! to each their own!'. Nobody defines themselves entirely, we all live in the world and we all have flaws. You need to be able to call yourself out on your own bullshit.

The difference between people who do that, and people like me, is that I know I make choices about what kind of people I prefer based on less than ideal social circumstances. I don't beat myself up consistently for say, finding something about girls who come from rich families compelling (i'm a broke ass fucker). I can find something compelling about pretty much anything I don't understand first hand, because I want to ultimately be accepted by people who are different than I am. I do question myself though when I'm dating someone and if I actually appreciate that person, or if it's something about their social status that I'm attracted to and I'm just ignoring the rest of their personality. This goes right down to the level that sometimes I ask myself, am I just with this person because she's a woman and I want to be accepted by women, or do I actually appreciate them. It's about growing up, and finding more worth to other people than as band-aids for your own neurotic desires and weaknesses.

I think it's a strong indicator of a lazy and defensive mind when the only response a person has to the possibility they are following a script determined in part by society and in part by their own personal failings is 'it is what it is and it's fine I'M TOTALLY FINE'.

 

[Madness]

I'll just leave these OkCupid stats here...

Eh, this doesn't really take into account a lot of things like region, country, whether these are immigrants or born and raised etc.

It is shocking though at the rates for black females, and even the fact that black females responded to black males less than they did Asian males or even Indian males.

 

[Cedric]

I see what you're doing here, but it's not a very fitting analogy.

To be perfectly honest, I wasn't trying to do anything… it was a legit question I had. I've been told before by people I considered attractive that they weren't attracted to people of my "race", and we're all human so as you can imagine it did affect me. Especially considering, I don't believe my looks can be generalized to everyone that are part of my "race" (I'm actually mixed), so it bothered me… that's all.

 

[StuBurns]

It's pretty brutal to have someone actually say to your face they don't think your race is attractive, she should have just pretended to be involved with someone or gay or any of the normal things.

 

[OrangeJulius]

Did you read all of DragonKnight's posts? Even he's admitting that social conditioning might play a huge role in why he finds white girls more attractive than his own race.

And no, I don't think having a "preference" alone makes someone racist (although, I still don't know if I agree with people having preferences). I'm going to quote Slime's post because I think he perfectly summed up what my position has been in this thread. Read the whole thing, but the the bolded especially:

Yes, I did read his post. I asked you if you feel that way, and if so, is it right for you to truly be angry and dismissive of people for social conditioning? He even admitted it probably isn't right but he can't help it. If that is the case do you look down on him for it?

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

Eh, this doesn't really take into account a lot of things like region, country, whether these are immigrants or born and raised etc.

It is shocking though at the rates for black females, and even the fact that black females responded to black males less than they did Asian males or even Indian males.

If you look at some black female profiles on PoF they will add "I do not date black men" or "white men only". I don't think I've seen it as much on okcupid though.