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[Toxi]

Its actually kind of impressive that the entirety of the franchise basically revolves around the popularity and success of one game and its remake.

And the remake wasn't even successful.

I mean, every franchise had "that one game": Super Mario Bros 3, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time, Kirby Superstar, but Star Fox has basically nothing outside that game that people really liked.

(And no Rare fans, Star Fox Adventures was bad even ignoring its Star Fox elements)

Alternatively, they just replace Ike entirely with Chrom. Their ingame stats are almost entirely identical from their respective games anyway.

But Chrom doesn't fight for his friends.

 

[georly]

uhh

Ike's Side-B is nothing like Zelda's new move. The knight is almost like a projectile and is used for spacing, while Ike's move is for getting in and recovery.

Someone doesn't play Ike, AT ALL.

You guys don't see the similarity at all? The only difference is that it's a summoned projectile, but the Phantom's behavior is incredibly similar to Ike's Side B. In fact, if you re-watch the direct, you'll see that the longer zelda charges the move, the longer the horizontal movement and the faster the phantom moves, just like Ike's side B. Just because zelda herself isnt moving horizontally does not mean the move is not similar.

If i could make gifs at work, i'd show you what I mean.

I don't mean the utility is the same, but rather the way the phantom moves is similar to the way Ike moves.

 

[Terrell]

I love how "clone" status is what people assume equals cut.
By that Logic Snake is in all day since there's no move set like his.

Doesn't extend to 3rd party characters. Resume your crying at his inevitable exclusion.

Doc wasn't cut because the Mario series had another clone character already, so it's not comparable.

Are you seriously directly comparing Dr. Mario to LUIGI?!

 

[Princess_Eevee9]

Am I late in joining the Isaac hope train?

 

[Jawmuncher]

Doesn't extend to 3rd party characters. Resume your crying at his inevitable exclusion.

I would love to see the Smash Bros Cut Rule Book you seem to have.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Are you seriously directly comparing Dr. Mario to LUIGI?!

...No, that's my whole point.

 

[HK-47]

None of the clones have ever really played like their progenitors. This whole clone complaining that has existed since Melee is superifical to the extreme.

 

[Subtervotion]

You guys don't see the similarity at all? The only difference is that it's a summoned projectile, but the Phantom's behavior is incredibly similar to Ike's Side B. In fact, if you re-watch the direct, you'll see that the longer zelda charges the move, the longer the horizontal movement and the faster the phantom moves, just like Ike's side B. Just because zelda herself isnt moving horizontally does not mean the move is not similar.

If i could make gifs at work, i'd show you what I mean.

I don't mean the utility is the same, but rather the way the phantom moves is similar to the way Ike moves.

Zelda not moving with the attack is a HUGE factor. Like I said, I don't think you play Ike. His side B is a big recovery move; just as big as his up B. Because one is vertical and one is horizontal. Greninja, however has a side B very similar to Ike. Both are chargable and both move the character horizontally.

Also Zelda's has other characteristics Ike's and Greninja's don't. Blocking, mainly.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

None of the clones have ever really played like their progenitors.

Doc and Mario were basically identical. Their differences were so minute, it was hardly noticeable by pretty much everyone.

 

[Toxi]

You'd think clones would be easiest and less time consuming characters to make that would probably have a good chance of being in.

Mewtwo wasn't even a clone. I was surprised when it wasn't in Brawl.

You guys don't see the similarity at all? The only difference is that it's a summoned projectile, but the Phantom's behavior is incredibly similar to Ike's Side B. In fact, if you re-watch the direct, you'll see that the longer zelda charges the move, the longer the horizontal movement and the faster the phantom moves, just like Ike's side B. Just because zelda herself isnt moving horizontally does not mean the move is not similar.

If i could make gifs at work, i'd show you what I mean.

I don't mean the utility is the same, but rather the way the phantom moves is similar to the way Ike moves.

Just being a projectile makes it a completely different move though.

I can see why you think it's similar, but it doesn't look like Ike's (because Zelda's summoning someone else to do it for her) and it doesn't play like Ike's. it just has the knight do a similar charged attack to Ike's.

 

[Kriken]

You guys don't see the similarity at all? The only difference is that it's a summoned projectile, but the Phantom's behavior is incredibly similar to Ike's Side B. In fact, if you re-watch the direct, you'll see that the longer zelda charges the move, the longer the horizontal movement and the faster the phantom moves, just like Ike's side B. Just because zelda herself isnt moving horizontally does not mean the move is not similar.

...Not really, no. Zelda stays in one place while Ike's attack gets him closer to the enemy, it's very different in the way you can get combos

 

[Deleted member 231381]

And the remake wasn't even successful.

I mean, every franchise had "that one game": Super Mario Bros 3, Super Metroid, Ocarina of Time, Kirby Superstar, but Star Fox has basically nothing outside that game that people really liked.

(And no Rare fans, Star Fox Adventures was bad even ignoring its Star Fox elements)

But Chrom doesn't fight for his friends.

In fairness, I wouldn't fight for Chrom's friends either.

Also, Majora's Mask is Zelda's "that one game". Ocarina of Time is a mid-tier 3D Zelda.

 

[SuperSah]

Needs more GIFs in here.

 

[Sciz]

The original SNES Star Fox was big, in its day. SF64 is certainly the series' legacy, but its historic notability extends beyond that.

I just want Ike's moveset. If he looks different, that's fine. Chrom's a cool character.

Personally though I'd like to have Ike and Chrom. Ike keeping his moveset and Chrom getting a unique one.

The latter is the more likely of the two. They're not scrapping a character's worth of art assets just to redo the work and retain the exact same gameplay.

Why did people keep saying this was ground up work? Ah whatever, the games get done faster this way and we get more characters.

It's a misinterpretation of some Sakurai quote about the work that goes into making a character from scratch.

 

[georly]

Zelda not moving with the attack is a HUGE factor. Like I said, I don't think you play Ike. His side B is a big recovery move; just as big as his up B. Because one is vertical and one is horizontal. Greninja, however has a side B very similar to Ike. Both are chargable and both move the character horizontally.

Also Zelda's has other characteristics Ike's and Greninja's don't. Blocking, mainly.

Mewtwo wasn't even a clone. I was surprised when it wasn't in Brawl.

Just being a projectile makes it a completely different move though.

I can see why you think it's similar, but it doesn't look like Ike's (because Zelda's summoning someone else to do it for her) and it doesn't play like Ike's. it just has the knight do a similar charged attack to Ike's.

...Not really, no. Zelda stays in one place while Ike's attack gets him closer to the enemy

Sure, the utility of the move is entirely different. What you use it for is entirely different, I agree 100%. This, therefore, makes it a 'different' move, utility-wise.

THAT SAID, it is not unthinkable to think that they reused the concept/animation, removed it from IKE and applied it to the phantom. I am not talking about what you use the move for, how it's used, etc, i'm strictly talking in terms of what the phantom does, animation-wise, compared to ike, and how it's charged, just like ike.

Ryu's tatsumaki and Akuma's tatsumaki both move and behave differently, and are used for entirely different things, but that doesn't mean they're not both tatsumaki moves.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Clean (well, no watermark):

Only whiners with no patience for a new control scheme hate on it. It plays beautifully. Everyone is just dependant on dual analog controls due to oversaturation. Unique experiences scare them.

How it plays isn't my complaint, though. It plays fine. The problem is it friggin' hurts my left hand, such that I can't play more than one stage at a time. Often I can't even play a full stage in one sitting, because the stages get pretty lengthy. Hell, I think the cramps start occurring before I even reach the on-foot segments.

And for the record:

How do you see yourself holding your 3ds?

My advice:
1) Use an XL
2)SUPPORT 3DS WITH YOUR RIGHT HAND. Don't leave it lying around to the right side, put your lower left palm on the lower right corner to support the device
3) Set power usage to upper d-pad for quick access
4) Put thumb on circle pad in such a way so that the lower part of it can use the d-pad
5) D-pad direction OR face button used for fps mode (you don't really need this except for staffs/snipers, which aren't that great fro the campaign. Additionally, fps mode is also pretty bad in most situations for campaign
6)If you're a left mirror via CPP

I do 1, 2 (well, pinky, not palm, but still) and 3 (I don't even remember FPS mode being a thing). It helps, but isn't enough.

RE: Uprising controls:

Use your pinkies to balance the system. I play without the stand, and with 3D on full blast. I'm using an XL. It works fine.

Be sure to dial up the turning and aiming speed, and max out the stopping for each. This way you have super-precise control with quick flicks/taps of the touchscreen. We're talking like KBM levels of twitch-action here. Along with the "tap Circle Pad to dash/dodge/charge shot" function, the control scheme comes together so beautifully...

Except for scrolling through a list of bit-sized icons for the (optional) special powers. That feature is clumsy no matter how you approach it.

Also, UPRISING IS SO GOOD. Sakurai's masterwork. Play it!

I do all of this, too. It still doesn't help the pain.

So yes, Uprising: great game, but I can only play through it really slowly because Jesus Christ my hand.

Smashing is magic.

Spoiler

I'm sorry

My Little Melia: Ether is Magic

Those are both good reasons - they're just not the reason Sakurai gave. And Sonic and Megaman both deserve to be in Smash about 1000 times more than Snake, whose iconic games came out on a rival platform, and whose only recent Nintendo release (on the Gamecube) Kojima publicly distanced himself from. Compare how tight Sega is with Nintendo with the Sonic and Mario games, or how Mega Man has been on every Nintendo system.

I don't blame you for forgetting this - it wasn't an amazing port, and Konami basically sent it out to die by announcing an HD rerelease before it'd even come out - but...

 

[Toxi]

In fairness, I wouldn't fight for Chrom's friends either.

Also, Majora's Mask is Zelda's "that one game". Ocarina of Time is a mid-tier 3D Zelda.

"That one game" in this case has more to do with popularity, presence as an icon of te series, and impact on the series. A Link to the Past is also "that one game".

Majora's Mask is actually my favorite 3D Zelda, and Metroid Prime is my favorite Metroid.

 

[Beelzebufo]

The original SNES Star Fox was big, in its day. SF64 is certainly the series' legacy, but its historic notability extends beyond that.

I think Star Fox and Star Fox 64 is what people meant by "One game and it's remake"

Star fox is notable for selling two pieces of hardware (SuperFX and RumblePack) and for being in Smash Bros.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Alternatively, they just replace Ike entirely with Chrom. Their ingame stats are almost entirely identical from their respective games anyway.

They really aren't. Mostly due to the fact that Awakening is balanced completely differently to PoR/RD

Even by RD where ike has much larger caps due to the 3 tier job system, he tops out at
(HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res)
65/37/15/40/37/30/32/23
Ragnell 18att 80 hit +5 crit Def +5

Where chrom in the Vanguard equivilant class, Great lord, maxes out at
80/44/30/41/42/46/41/39
Exalted Falchion 15 att 80hit +10 crit

i.e. significantly better in everything but skill. Chrom from Awakening would cream ike from RD into a fine paste, albeit ingame ragnell being used for range attacks is a big plus too, but as I said before, it's because the games are balanced completely differently.

 

[Berordn]

The original SNES Star Fox was big, in its day. SF64 is certainly the series' legacy, but its historic notability extends beyond that.

That's actually what I meant by one game, with SF64 being the remake.

I suppose my definition of remake is debatable.

 

[Troubled Bat]

Am I late in joining the Isaac hope train?

You're never too late!

 

[SoldnerKei]

Clean (well, no watermark):

I can see doujins rising in the horizon

 

[tonyh24613]

I'm re-watching the Direct, I notice that Olimar actually use his up-B in the stage-intro part long before the veteran part, lol.

 

[Fidelis Hodie]

Am I late in joining the Isaac hope train?

Give or take about 13 years.

Shulk, Samurai. Shulk. Either or please. PLEASE.

 

[SuperSah]

I'm re-watching the Direct, I notice that Olimar actually use his up-B in the stage-intro part long before the veteran part, lol.

Same with Pit's new recovery.

 

[BassForever]

I've been on the Golden Sun band wagon since Brawl, I can't think of many other franchises with 3+ games Nintendo has that don't have playable reps

 

[TheLegendOfCap]

I hate cut discussions. Like a lot. The only released Smash Bros. game so far that has received "cuts" is Super Smash Bros. Brawl. What happened to this game?

-Gigantic Story Mode that took up basically half of the disc
-Last minute 3rd party inclusion that out prioritized other characters
-Said 3rd party character which caused 2 delays of the game

This was such a unique situation that we absolutely cannot guess the circumstances for the cuts other than "there was no more time".
What were the cuts?

Roy, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Pichu (Toon Link took over for Young Link)

This same situation is not going to happen again. Unless some bizarre thing happens last minute. People keep making up "cut criteria" when it was just time that ran out. Hell, if looking at the unused Brawl data, the only two who looked like they were truly going to be cut is Pichu and Young Link.

In this next game, my predictuon?

CUT:
-Ivysaur and Squirtle due to mechanic changes
-MAYBE snake due to unpredictability of the way Sakurai thinks and treats third parties.

Lucas is not getting cut. I can't say for certain about Ike though, but I still doubt it.

 

[Toxi]

I think Star Fox and Star Fox 64 is what people meant by "One game and it's remake"

Star fox is notable for selling two pieces of hardware (SuperFX and RumblePack) and for being in Smash Bros.

I always forget about the original Star Fox.

Sure, the utility of the move is entirely different. What you use it for is entirely different, I agree 100%. This, therefore, makes it a 'different' move, utility-wise.

THAT SAID, it is not unthinkable to think that they reused the concept/animation, removed it from IKE and applied it to the phantom. I am not talking about what you use the move for, how it's used, etc, i'm strictly talking in terms of what the phantom does, animation-wise, compared to ike, and how it's charged, just like ike.

Ryu's tatsumaki and Akuma's tatsumaki both move and behave differently, and are used for entirely different things, but that doesn't mean they're not both tatsumaki moves.

It would be difficult for Ike's animation to apply to a model with a body shape like the shadow knight, but you might be right. If so, that's a pretty clever reuse.

 

[theprodigy]

Ragnall is a real sword though.

Exalted Falchion is a pretty cool sword.

 

[georly]

Clean (well, no watermark):

Weird/cool how she has the speed-booster-esque trail behind her while she jumps. Wonder what that's about.

 

[Subtervotion]

Sure, the utility of the move is entirely different. What you use it for is entirely different, I agree 100%. This, therefore, makes it a 'different' move, utility-wise.

THAT SAID, it is not unthinkable to think that they reused the concept/animation, removed it from IKE and applied it to the phantom. I am not talking about what you use the move for, how it's used, etc, i'm strictly talking in terms of what the phantom does, animation-wise, compared to ike, and how it's charged, just like ike.

Ryu's tatsumaki and Akuma's tatsumaki both move and behave differently, and are used for entirely different things, but that doesn't mean they're not both tatsumaki moves.

You're spitballin'. Sonic and Megaman both have spring up B moves. Doesn't mean they "removed" anything. I'm not sure if you're suggesting that Ike is gone because of Zelda's new move or you're just saying they got the idea from Ike originally.

Either way, a charge up move that goes horizsontally isn't exactly a new thing in Smash. Pikachu, Luigi, Jiugglypuff, the list goes on... C'mon man.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I hate cut discussions. Like a lot. The only realeased Smash Bros. game so far that has received "cuts" is Super Smash Bros. Brawl. What happened to this game?

-Gigantic Story Mode that took up basically half of the disc
-Last minute 3rd party inclusion that out prioritized other characters
-Said 3rd party character which caused 2 delays of the game

This was such a unique situation that we absolutely cannot guess the circumstances for the cuts other than "there was no more time".
What were the cuts?

Roy, Mewtwo, Dr. Mario, Pichu (Toon Link took over for Young Link)

This same situation is not going to happen again. Unless some bizarre thing happens last minute. People keep making up "cut criteria" when it was just time that ran out. Hell, if looking at the unused Brawl data, the only two who looked like they were truly going to be cut is Pichu and Young Link.

In this next game, my predictuon?

CUT:
-Ivysaur and Squirtle due to mechanic changes
-MAYBE snake due to unpredictability of the way Sakurai thinks and treats third parties.

Lucas is not getting cut. I can't say for certain about Ike though, but I still doubt it.

The only reason there's any discussion at all is because we're assuming the 48 minus 4 rumor is true, in which case all that doesn't matter at all. Unless you're suggesting that it will be the ice climbers due to mechanic changes.

 

[Kriken]

I'm re-watching the Direct, I notice that Olimar actually use his up-B in the stage-intro part long before the veteran part, lol.

I saw that as well when I rewatched the direct, I don't recall anybody in the IRC pointing that out

 

[RomanceDawn]

How long has there been this much demand for Ridley in Smash? I assume before him the most wanted was Mega Man, and since he was announced I kind of thought Ridley would be a given. That was until the last Direct that implied he'd only be a stage hazard...

When I was in high school Melee was revealed at E3. When we saw Samus and Ridley appear I remember friends asking could we play as that "purple dragon from Metroid." After explaining who Ridley was I never looked back on that request. For some reason Metaknight and Ridley came up a lot back then in my circle of friends. Back then too big wasn't even conceived of.

During pre Brawl hype though Ridley did come up a lot. In Sakurai's Melee poll from Japan Ridley did score pretty well. I think everyone on that list eventually made it in to brawl except K Rool and Ridley. There are probably a few more I'm forgetting. I think Lugia as well.

 

[georly]

You're spitballin'. Sonic and Megaman both have spring up B moves. Doesn't mean they "removed" anything. I'm not sure if you're suggesting that Ike is gone because of Zelda's new move or you're just saying they got the idea from Ike originally.

Either way, a charge up move that goes horizsontally isn't exactly a new thing in Smash. Pikachu, Luigi, Jiugglypuff, the list goes on... C'mon man.

I am spitballing/brainstorming. That's what smash-hype is all about!

It just reminds me of Ike's side-b, because it's a horizontal dash that is charged up, followed by a sword-swing. That's all I'm saying. I'm also using the conspiracy theory that Sheik having grenades is a sign that snake is removed, therefore, zelda having a phantom who dashes after being charged up is a sign that ike is removed.

In *NO* way do I want Ike removed, at all. I want 0 cuts, personally. I'm just throwing out random ideas.


My other random idea is that because the balloon fight stage has wrap-around, which is a mechanic that pac-man is known for, a pac-man stage, and therefore pac-man are likely to be in the game

I also don't want pac-man in the game, at all. But that's just me.

 

[Red Arremer]

With the new thread and all, I didn't catch the quote for the Pic of the Day, anyone have it handy?

 

[Crocodile]

A) It's a shame the Star Fox franchise was never able to prosper after Star Fox 64. That game is one of my favorite games of all time. Also I don't consider 64 to be a remake of the SNES, I assume when people say remake they are referring to that SF64 remake for the 3DS.

B) I can see the moveset potential in the Golden Sun crew but most of the cast has the personality of a doorknob. I dunno if I can really get hype for Isaac as a result.

 

[Toxi]

The thing about Ridley is you gotta be patient. Even if he's not in Smah 4, that will just increase demand for him in Smash 5.

 

[Mr Buddy]

With the new thread and all, I didn't catch the quote for the Pic of the Day, anyone have it handy?

"Pic of the day. Ready now? Together with me!"

 

[Riki]

With the new thread and all, I didn't catch the quote for the Pic of the Day, anyone have it handy?

Sakurai: Dose assets.

 

[Kriken]

The thing about Ridley is you gotta be patient. Even if he's not in Smah 4, that will just increase demand for him in Smash 5.

And Smash 6, and Smash 7, and Smash 8...

 

[foxuzamaki]

dat title

 

[Shadow Hog]

With the new thread and all, I didn't catch the quote for the Pic of the Day, anyone have it handy?

Pic of the day. Ready now? Together with me!

 

[Beelzebufo]

The thing about Ridley is you gotta be patient. Even if he's not in Smah 4, that will just increase demand for him in Smash 5.

He's probably not in Smash 4 at all outside of a trophy. In Smash 5 he's a stage hazard on Pyrosphere.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Pic of the day. Ready now? Together with me!

Can't believe no one post it.

I like this potd

 

[Deleted member 231381]

They really aren't. Mostly due to the fact that Awakening is balanced completely differently to PoR/RD

Even by RD where ike has much larger caps due to the 3 tier job system, he tops out at
(HP/Str/Mag/Skl/Spd/Lck/Def/Res)
65/37/15/40/37/30/32/23
Ragnell 18att 80 hit +5 crit Def +5

Where chrom in the Vanguard equivilant class, Great lord, maxes out at
80/44/30/41/42/46/41/39
Exalted Falchion 15 att 80hit +10 crit

i.e. significantly better in everything but skill. Chrom from Awakening would cream ike from RD into a fine paste, albeit ingame ragnell being used for range attacks is a big plus too, but as I said before, it's because the games are balanced completely differently.

Sure, but notice something. The sum of Ike's stats is 279, and Chrom's 363, mostly because everyone in Awakening just has higher caps anyway. However, the engines actually used for damage calculation in Awakening and RD are very similar - the core components of how battle works in the Fire Emblem series as a whole haven't changed significantly in a long time. If you normalize Chrom's stats so that the total is now 279 but all of the stats remain in the same proportion (i.e., divide everything by 279/363), you get this from Chrom:

61 (difference of 4 from Ike)
34 (difference of 3 from Ike)
23 (difference of 8 from Ike)
32 (difference of 8 from Ike)
35 (difference of 5 from Ike)
32 (exactly the same)
30 (difference of 7 from Ike)

Most of these differences are pretty small. Their HPs are incredibly comparable (61 to 64), as are their STR (34 to 37). Chrom has 8 more MAG... but neither of them use MAG weapons anyway, so it's not actually a tangible difference. Ike has significantly more SKL... but that's neutralized by the Falchion's higher crit rate. Chrom is somewhat faster, that's a real difference. Chrom is also luckier, but I have no idea how you'd even translate that into Brawl anyway. Their defence is basically the same, although Ragnell makes Ike a better, but Chrom takes MAG hits better, so they're equally bulky, just on different sides of the damage spectrum.

Basically, they play very similarly. Chrom is a faster Ike who is worse at taking physical hits and better at taking magical ones. That's it.

 

[Ryce]

How on Earth is Star Fox 64 a remake of the original? They're nothing alike outside of vague plot similarities. I might understand SF64 being described as a semi-reimagining, but "remake" is a disingenuous attempt at making the game seem low effort.

 

[-Horizon-]

Can someone who was active on the last thread explain the me the thread title? I'm really out of the loop these days.

I suck at gifs yo.

 

[zroid]

Clean (well, no watermark):

( ͝° ͜ʖ͡°)

 

[Toxi]

And Smash 6, and Smash 7, and Smash 8...

Yep. Very patient.

Just like Ridley comes back every Metroid game even after Samus blasted him last game, he comes back every Smash speculation season even after he didn't become playable last game.