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[Banjo-Kazooie]

You tell me how they're going to make a big push for it, I'm not really getting the hype for it. I don't see how or why they would invest much money in it, I'd think that they'd be better off putting that marketing money towards H2A and Forza Horizon.

The tag line for Titanfall was "from the makers of Call of Duty". I think it was just a marketing joke that you can't really do that with SO. Still seems like the game could be great, but from a marketing perspective, there's no way it can have the same potential impact as Titanfall.

Gotcha, haha.

I mean, I don't know, I'm sure they will say "From the Makers of Ratchet & Clank" instead . Either way, ya, it won't move consoles by itself, but imo it's a good complimentary piece to show off next to Horizons 2 and Halo Anniv 2 (if both of those turn out to even be things).

 

[Hoo-doo]

Pushing a game like Sunset Overdrive in a position like that is only going to end up in disappointment, I think.

You can't just make any game a system-selling blockbuster just because you really want it to. You can't will it into existence like that.
I can only imagine MS has something up their sleeves for the holidays. If they do we'll see it at E3 this year.
I don't feel like a dev team like Insomniac is equipped for creating a big "tentpole" holiday exclusive like that.

 

[Wynnebeck]

This whole bait and switch thing is bad for Microsoft, the longer they wait to keep the prices low, the more consumers they will lose to to impatience and/or choosing the other alternative(s).

I fully expect an official pricecut to $450 or $399 at E3. While this is going to spur sales for a bit, I still believe there are fundamental problems MS need to solve to take advantage of such a move. Having a high tiered game to go would have been great, but they'll make do.

 

[Acupunctur3]

If I'm not mistaken Sony actually SOLD 7 million units, not just shipped correct?

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

If titanfall didnt help x1, sunset over drive won't. That game looks like a niche title and insomniac has been pretty average for a very long time.

It was tough enough being an Insomniac fan on PS3, I honestly don't know what they're going to do different which will propel them into the big time AAA sales.

They are in trouble if that is their big holiday trouble.

Double trouble!

 

[Tsundere]

I fully expect an official pricecut to $450 or $399 at E3. While this is going to spur sales for a bit, I still believe there are fundamental problems MS need to solve to take advantage of such a move. Having a high tiered game to go would have been great, but they'll make do.

They also need to remove the app paywall, it's by far the most ridiculous "feature" of the console.

If I'm not mistaken Sony actually SOLD 7 million units, not just shipped correct?

Yes, sold to consumers.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

"From the makers of FUSE" lol

... and Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Spyro the Dragon etc... but FUSE fits your agenda better.

We all know Insomniac has had a some duds lately (Resistance 2, the nontraditional R&C games, and FUSE), but they are still a quality development team. Sunset Overdrive could possibly be a dud, but if MS gets behind it in a big way, then it probably won't be. I'm pretty excited to learn more about it in the next EDGE magazine.

 

[MercuryLS]

If I'm not mistaken Sony actually SOLD 7 million units, not just shipped correct?

Yes.

 

[BigDug13]

If I'm not mistaken Sony actually SOLD 7 million units, not just shipped correct?

That is correct. And I think speculation is that XBO is at less than 4.5 million sold through to customers.

 

[prwxv3]

... and Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Spyro the Dragon etc... but FUSE fits your agenda better.

We all know Insomniac has had a some duds lately (Resistance 2, the nontraditional R&C games, and FUSE), but they are still a quality development team. Sunset Overdrive could possibly be a dud, but if MS gets behind it in a big way, then it probably won't be. I'm pretty excited to learn more about it in the next EDGE magazine.

It was a joke about Titan Falls "from the makers of Call of Duty"

 

[Hoo-doo]

Microsoft need some hot ground breaking shit that fully utilizes the Kinect 2. Otherwise, I think they are going to be in trouble when Sony starts pulling out their big guns.

What you are asking here is what people have been asking ever since Kinect 1 launched.
I think it's time we let this dream go. Kinect 2 is already failing to wow anyone and investing big on it in the hopes of striking gold is a profound waste of time and money. Kinect has been in developer's hands for years, you'd think we'd have seen something by now if it really had potential.

 

[Tsundere]

... and Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Spyro the Dragon etc... but FUSE fits your agenda better.

We all know Insomniac has had a some duds lately (Resistance 2, the nontraditional R&C games, and FUSE), but they are still a quality development team. Sunset Overdrive could possibly be a dud, but if MS gets behind it in a big way, then it probably won't be. I'm pretty excited to learn more about it in the next EDGE magazine.

Hard to see where I was taking a light hearted jab at the marketing push for Titanfall, trying to sell it because it was the makers of Call of Duty, with millions of dollars worth of marketing and retailer discounts and bundles. But then again, I guess that fits your agenda too right?

I find it funny how people are now trying to make as if SO will drive significant Xbox One sales. And let's not forget, this game isn't even releasing until Fall, after E3, where there will be more announcements of games for all platforms, priorities will change.

 

[ethomaz]

That is correct. And I think speculation is that XBO is at less than 4.5 million sold through to customers.

Based in MS words I will say close to 4 million than 4.5 million.

 

[miDnIghtEr20C]

Great job MS.. lol at all the doom and gloom and MS is done and needs to leave the console industry and all that other jazz leading up till now. They're doing just fine. Like we knew they would.

This gen just started. For some reason MS and the X1 are supposed to stop and just stop... but when the PS3 was getting destroyed at the start of the gen last gen, no Sony fan thought they should give up. Either will MS fans. We have great games out, and great games coming.

Good job MS.. keep it up. Use some of that money for some new IP's.

 

[BigDug13]

Based in MS words I will say close to 4 million than 4.5 million.

I was being generous, but yes.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

What you are asking here is what people have been asking ever since Kinect 1 launched.
I think it's time we let this dream go. Kinect 2 is already failing to wow anyone and investing big on it in the hopes of striking gold is a profound waste of time and money. Kinect has been in developer's hands for years, you'd think we'd have seen something by now if it really had potential.

With KSR seemingly bombing (on sale for $40 a week after release), I really don't see any real reason for them to continue to pretend the bulk of people want it packed in. Keep it offered on the side for $75 or $100 or whatever, but it really needs to go, and they need to do that to get the price to $399. I hope Phil realizes this.

Despite their "promise" to developers and reeasoning that it is there to ensure every dev that every owner has a Kinect, I don't see devs being heartbroken if the thing isn't packed in, lol. It's said the cost on the BOM is $75 for the Kinect, so if that gets taken out, they are already at $425 or so, and then can eat the $25 a lot easier than the $50 they are eating with these retailer deals. Not to mention, it will increase sales of their console and get people int othe ecosystem. I REALLY won't understand them if the thing isn't knocked out by E3/fall the latest.

 

[Jomjom]

... and Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Spyro the Dragon etc... but FUSE fits your agenda better.

We all know Insomniac has had a some duds lately (Resistance 2, the nontraditional R&C games, and FUSE), but they are still a quality development team. Sunset Overdrive could possibly be a dud, but if MS gets behind it in a big way, then it probably won't be. I'm pretty excited to learn more about it in the next EDGE magazine.

I think he was commenting on the marketing part of it. MS is not going to market SO by saying the devs were the makers of PS exclusives, which really only leaves Fuse.

Maybe I'm wrong, has Sony marketed Destiny thus far by saying from the makers of Halo?

Great job MS.. lol at all the doom and gloom and MS is done and needs to leave the console industry and all that other jazz leading up till now. They're doing just fine. Like we knew they would.

This gen just started. For some reason MS and the X1 are supposed to stop and just stop... but when the PS3 was getting destroyed at the start of the gen last gen, no Sony fan thought they should give up. Either will MS fans. We have great games out, and great games coming.

Good job MS.. keep it up. Use some of that money for some new IP's.

I think you're being a little defensive. There have been very few if any posts where people are saying MS is done and needs to leave the industry.

 

[Tsundere]

With KSR seemingly bombing (on sale for $40 a week after release), I really don't see any real reason for them to continue to pretend the bulk of people want it packed in. Keep it offered on the side for $75 or $100 or whatever, but it really needs to go, and they need to do that to get the price to $399. I hope Phil realizes this.

Despite their "promise" to developers and reeasoning that it is there to ensure every dev that every owner has a Kinect, I don't see devs being heartbroken if the thing isn't packed in, lol.

It's still a messaging clusterfuck, they keep saying how Kinect is integral to the experience on the system, so removing Kinect later destroys that message.

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

... and Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Spyro the Dragon etc... but FUSE fits your agenda better.

We all know Insomniac has had a some duds lately (Resistance 2, the nontraditional R&C games, and FUSE), but they are still a quality development team. Sunset Overdrive could possibly be a dud, but if MS gets behind it in a big way, then it probably won't be. I'm pretty excited to learn more about it in the next EDGE magazine.

None of those helped sell system or were big hits...only underscores the point. Insomniac won't be pushing x1 sales.

 

[fallingdove]

But it's back up to $499, so it's not official. And that means sales will slow again because people have seen it as low as $449 so why would they buy it now at $499?

People didn't buy it at $449 with a pack in. In fact, for all intents and purposes sell through seemed to have continued to slow during this period. Maybe whether a price cut is official temporary or official permanent is irrelevant?

 

[BigSpleenRupture]

Great job MS.. lol at all the doom and gloom and MS is done and needs to leave the console industry and all that other jazz leading up till now. They're doing just fine. Like we knew they would.

This gen just started. For some reason MS and the X1 are supposed to stop and just stop... but when the PS3 was getting destroyed at the start of the gen last gen, no Sony fan thought they should give up. Either will MS fans. We have great games out, and great games coming.

Good job MS.. keep it up. Use some of that money for some new IP's.

Poor , just poor.... PS3 was a year late, and outsold 360 every year when you align the launches....Also, xbox does NOT have he rest of the world to pick up sales from like sony. PS4 is supposed to just stop? Sony has not even brought out their first party titles really yet.

 

[Guymelef]

This gen just started. For some reason MS and the X1 are supposed to stop and just stop... but when the PS3 was getting destroyed at the start of the gen last gen, no Sony fan thought they should give up. Either will MS fans. We have great games out, and great games coming.

That's right, almost entire 2006 PS3 was destroyed by X360.

 

[Z3M0G]

Based in MS words I will say close to 4 million than 4.5 million.

So 2:1 within the next 3-4 months?

 

[BigDug13]

People didn't buy it at $449 with a pack in. In fact, for all intents and purposes sell through seemed to have continued to slow during this period. Maybe whether a price cut is official temporary or official permanent is irrelevant?

Sure, but they've already opened up a can of worms. People have already seen the console with a game on sale for $449. People are no longer going to be willing to pay the official retail price any longer.

 

[Bessy67]

you can't add 3m sold to customers + 1.2m sold to retailers I think

It's actually probably pretty close if they sell 60% in the US. They sold ~1.8 of 3 million in the US in Nov/Dec, and we know they sold ~750k in the US since, so if that's 60% of the console sales during that time total would be ~1.2 million.

 

[Orcus]

... Sony is coming with the double whammy with Destiny is September and The Order right after...

Are you under the impression that Destiny is a Sony exclusive title? I'm not trying to argue against your main point, I'm just calling out this specific statement.

 

[Moneal]

Great job MS.. lol at all the doom and gloom and MS is done and needs to leave the console industry and all that other jazz leading up till now. They're doing just fine. Like we knew they would.

This gen just started. For some reason MS and the X1 are supposed to stop and just stop... but when the PS3 was getting destroyed at the start of the gen last gen, no Sony fan thought they should give up. Either will MS fans. We have great games out, and great games coming.

Good job MS.. keep it up. Use some of that money for some new IP's.

ps3 fought back through world wide sales. 360 still destroyed it in the US and UK. ps4 is winning US, UK, and the rest of the world too. Where is the xb1 going to make up that ground. I don't think there is one region that the xb1 is winning, and I know its none big enough to turn things around.

Its price is too high to turn things around in the US. MS isn't going to be able to drop price under ps4, especially since ps4 is cheaper to make.

They aren't going to turn things around outside US either, since their IPs are just not that sought after outside the US.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Are you under the impression that Destiny is a Sony exclusive title? I'm not trying to argue against your main point, I'm just calling out this specific statement.

I think his point is that as far as the public, general, non-core consumer will be concerned, it will appear that way due to a Sony marketing blitz/partnership. The X1 version will not be referenced in official marketing afaik.

 

[Moneal]

Are you under the impression that Destiny is a Sony exclusive title? I'm not trying to argue against your main point, I'm just calling out this specific statement.

Marketing from both activision and sony will make it look like one. All demos, and ads will show ps4 version, and xb1 version will likely not be seen outside comparison videos.

 

[Guevara]

I think his point is that as far as the public, general, non-core consumer will be concerned, it will appear that way due to a Sony marketing blitz/partnership. The X1 version will not be referenced in official marketing afaik.

God, that looks like a brilliant move by Sony right about now.

 

[EGOMON]

I have a feeling that MS won't even announce a price-cut for XBO this E3

 

[ethomaz]

So 2:1 within the next 3-4 months?

The chances are really small because Sony needs to ship over 3 million in the next 3-4 months to reach over 10 million with MS shipping nothing.

A simulation...

MS ships 500k next quarter. 5.6m shipped.
Sony will need at least 11.2 million shipped to reach 2:1.

That is the issue with the 2:1... it is more easy to the low number reach the high one then the high one sustain the 2:1.

PS. I'm talking about shipment... sales to consumers have more change to happen but I think MS will never disclose these numbers.

 

[Uno Venova]

I have a feeling that MS won't even announce a price-cut for XBO this E3

I'd be surprised if they don't, there really is no other option for them unless they want to keep falling further behind at a quick pace.

 

[ironcreed]

I have a feeling that MS won't even announce a price-cut for XBO this E3

Then they might as well drape their balls across a guillotine and pull the lever. They will because they have to. I think they know this.

 

[BigDug13]

The chances are really small because Sony needs to ship over 3 million in the next 3-4 months to reach over 10 million with MS shipping nothing.

A simulation...

MS ships 500k next quarter. 5.6m shipped.
Sony will need at least 11.2 million shipped to reach 2:1.

That is the issue with the 2:1... it is more easy to the low number reach the right one then the right one sustain the 2:1.

PS. I'm talking about shipment... sales to consumers have more change to happen but I think MS will never disclose these numbers.

What about sell through though? We're already almost there with barely over 4 million compared to 7.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Are you under the impression that Destiny is a Sony exclusive title? I'm not trying to argue against your main point, I'm just calling out this specific statement.

I think his point is that as far as the public, general, non-core consumer will be concerned, it will appear that way due to a Sony marketing blitz/partnership. The X1 version will not be referenced in official marketing afaik.

Marketing from both activision and sony will make it look like one. All demos, and ads will show ps4 version, and xb1 version will likely not be seen outside comparison videos.

God, that looks like a brilliant move by Sony right about now.

What they said. Also MS might not announce a pricecut and wait for a later time to do it. Honestly, that sounds like the best course of action. Why announce a pricecut during what is normally the slowest period of the year for sales? I say pull a Sony and announce a cut at Gamescom right as the holiday season is about to get underway and build hype from there.

 

[Dragonborn]

Based in MS words I will say close to 4 million than 4.5 million.

Hell, I think it's possible that it hasn't even hit 4 million.

What they said. Also MS might not announce a pricecut and wait for a later time to do it. Honestly, that sounds like the best course of action. Why announce a pricecut during what is normally the slowest period of the year for sales? I say pull a Sony and announce a cut at Gamescom right as the holiday season is about to get underway and build hype from there.

MS needs it as soon as possible. If MS couldn't win March, Sony have April and May locked down. MLB, exclusive Watchdogs marketing and Transistor (I realize it's an indie title, but I think it's going to do very well). They're really going to push that. Then, they've got exclusive marketing for Destiny as well, which I still think will be the biggest game of the year. If there's no price cut by E3, MS are going to be a absolutely steamrolled (moreso than they already have been). Watchdogs and Destiny marketing is huge for Sony, just like CoD was for MS in NA last gen.

Now granted, even at $399, I don't think the X1 has a chance of beating the PS4, but it'll be a lot close in NA (WW, it's dead no matter what they do).

 

[Orcus]

I think his point is that as far as the public, general, non-core consumer will be concerned, it will appear that way due to a Sony marketing blitz/partnership. The X1 version will not be referenced in official marketing afaik.

I understand what those types of marketing deals are, but thanks for the explanation anyways. His statement implied exclusivity, which is what I was questioning. I happened to agree with his main point, unless MS makes some pricing changes.

I'm personally dubious of the value of those deals to the platform holders, unless they come with some sort of content exclusivity. All the publisher commercials and advertising still have the competing platform's logos at the end.

 

[hawk2025]

I just wonder if, six months from now, the market won't react as:


"Really? This ho-hum console is just pushing Halo 2 again and another one of dem Forza games?"



Remakes walk a thin line between exciting nostalgia and looking like retreading of old waters. Depending on the console's situation then, even a Halo 2 remake could have a surprisingly tepid reception, I think.

 

[Imperfected]

So, since so much of this thread revolves around the price and possible price cuts for the Xbone, can we discuss/speculate PS4 pricing strategy?

I'm going to preface here by saying: I actually have no idea what Sony's strategy would or should look like at this point. Not to belittle their efforts, but they've basically had everything they could ask for fall into their lap thus far; to be honest, their logistics have been the only outstanding display in terms of their efforts, with most of their advertising and PR being very by-the-numbers stuff. They've basically just been kicking back and watching the comedy of errors from the opposing camp.

Is there room to maneuver for the Sony? In either case, what are the possible reactions from Sony in the event of a price cut for the xbone? What would be the best thing to do given that Sony doesn't want to haemorrhage cash and should still want to main or grow their lead?

There is. An important consideration: PS+ is growing massively in popularity, and represents a new income stream that effectively increases the profit margin of every box. This is effectively new revenue for the division, because PS+ was hugely less popular last generation and could not be counted on as adding value after sale to a significant percentage of boxes sold.

The fact that the PlayStation division can show corporate their huge up-tick in PS+ subscriptions means that they can reason for a PS4 price drop earlier than they would otherwise be able to, on the basis that the increase in PS+ subscribers will ultimately make up the difference in six months time.

This is assuming they want to price cut ahead of schedule ("schedule" being in terms of a "natural" price cut due to economics of scale and reduced price of components actually making the console cheaper to produce). They might want to take a different approach, such as offering free PS+ subscriptions to try and further drive adoption of the service, since the top-level corporate managers are probably salivating over the thought of having a reliable, steady revenue stream emerging from this.

 

[prwxv3]

Great job MS.. lol at all the doom and gloom and MS is done and needs to leave the console industry and all that other jazz leading up till now. They're doing just fine. Like we knew they would.

This gen just started. For some reason MS and the X1 are supposed to stop and just stop... but when the PS3 was getting destroyed at the start of the gen last gen, no Sony fan thought they should give up. Either will MS fans. We have great games out, and great games coming.

Good job MS.. keep it up. Use some of that money for some new IP's.

You do know that the PS3 had strong world wide brand strength to "save it" that the xbone does not have right.

 

[Dragonborn]

You do know that the PS3 had strong world wide brand strength to "save it" that the xbone does not have right.

Nope, the X1 and PS3 are in exactly the same situation.... market factors? What even is that?

Spoiler

/s

 

[ricen-beans]

The price cut might as well have been official. It was $449 at all of the major outlets for several weeks.

And if Titanfall can't have an impact, Horizon and Sunset Overdrive sure as hell won't. I even doubt that a remake of Halo 2 will do much for their current predicament.

Microsoft need some hot ground breaking shit that fully utilizes the Kinect 2. Otherwise, I think they are going to be in trouble when Sony starts pulling out their big guns.

Someone who doesn't frequent the Internet looking for deals (like us gaffers) would've never known about this price cut. It was never advertised on TV or anywhere else for that matter. Some sites you had to put the Xbone in your cart before it would show u the lower price.

This was in no way an official price cut. When it DOES happen tho, I guarantee everyone will know it.

 

[Hugstable]

I see Microsoft most def announcing a Price Cut by E3. They need to show off new Halo and Gears at E3 also with possible late 2014 to early 2015 release. I think as time goes on the gap will start to close, but with the huge headstart I think they won't pass Sony sales this gen, unless they really pull some big exclusives out or really cut the price along with a Kinectless SKU (don't think this will happen since Kinect is a huge part of the system, marketing, and UI). I may end up getting one sooner or later in a year or so cause the software looks fun, its just that high price tag on top of needing to sub for Live Gold that I think it hurting the system right now. But first party Halo and Gears games tend to really bring in the numbers considering how well both games sold on the 360.

 

[Mung]

I see Microsoft most def announcing a Price Cut by E3. They need to show off new Halo and Gears at E3 also with possible late 2014 to early 2015 release. I think as time goes on the gap will start to close, but with the huge headstart I think they won't pass Sony sales this gen, unless they really pull some big exclusives out or really cut the price along with a Kinectless SKU (don't think this will happen since Kinect is a huge part of the system, marketing, and UI). I may end up getting one sooner or later in a year or so cause the software looks fun, its just that high price tag on top of needing to sub for Live Gold that I think it hurting the system right now. But first party Halo and Gears games tend to really bring in the numbers considering how well both games sold on the 360.

For the gap to close ms will have to massively outsell Sony in the US and UK. Even then I doubt it would compensate for the rest of the world. Just can't see it.

 

[Hugstable]

Poor , just poor.... PS3 was a year late, and outsold 360 every year when you align the launches....Also, xbox does NOT have he rest of the world to pick up sales from like sony. PS4 is supposed to just stop? Sony has not even brought out their first party titles really yet.

Killzone and Infamous dont count as first party titles? I know they aren't the best games in their respective series but they are still great first party games from some of Sony's bigger IPs.

 

[ethomaz]

What about sell through though? We're already almost there with barely over 4 million compared to 7.

Yeap... more changes using sell through.

If MS reach 4.5m sold in the next months Sony will need to reach 9m sold... I guess Sony will reach 9 million sold few weeks after E3... so if MS sold sell less than 150 in the next two month in US (the only sales we have) the possibility will be really big.

 

[BigDug13]

I see Microsoft most def announcing a Price Cut by E3. They need to show off new Halo and Gears at E3 also with possible late 2014 to early 2015 release. I think as time goes on the gap will start to close, but with the huge headstart I think they won't pass Sony sales this gen, unless they really pull some big exclusives out or really cut the price along with a Kinectless SKU (don't think this will happen since Kinect is a huge part of the system, marketing, and UI). I may end up getting one sooner or later in a year or so cause the software looks fun, its just that high price tag on top of needing to sub for Live Gold that I think it hurting the system right now. But first party Halo and Gears games tend to really bring in the numbers considering how well both games sold on the 360.

You mean gap percentage-wise and not actual? Then maybe. The actual gap is around 3 million to consumers. The percentage gap is that XBO has around 57% of the sales that PS4 has generated. Extrapolating that out means if PS4 can sell 100 million lifetime, XBO will be at 57 million lifetime.

In that case yes it's possible the gap will be less. But if PS4 sells 80 million lifetime, the actual gap puts XBO at 77 million lifetime and just don't see that happening.

(Also, I predicted around a 33% marketshare shift for the gap lifetime of 100 million PS4, 50 million XBO just based on info last year. But I honestly am surprised to see it actually tracking that way. )

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

That's right, almost entire 2006 PS3 was destroyed by X360.

And people were saying then that Sony should give up, and their console strategy was a mess, and they were shit and stupid and arrogant. It doesn't matter if they turn the ship around (again) in the future, people are commentating on what is happening now.

 

[robo]

Maybe I'm wrong, has Sony marketed Destiny thus far by saying from the makers of Halo?

.

Sony hasn't directly I don't think, but I do believe it was even shown during Sony E3 last year, from the makers of Halo and the company (publisher maybe) that bought you call of duty.