Support NeoGAF

[hesido]

I don't like 60fps because of "reaction times" as most would claim as it is after all supposed to be gameplay related.

The brain is very good at compensating for latency under a certain treshold (that's how we can drum in sync with the tempo even though the arm movements take several hundred miliseconds)

I like them "frames per seconds" because it makes motion smooth as butter. I like butter. Racing games have a lot of motion. Smooth motion is very pleasing to my eyes.

Arcade racer, simulation racer is a moot point. We are not losing control of the car because of 30fps in a sim racer or brake at the wrong time.

 

[OldKingDoran]

Sony TV = motionflow
LG TV = truemotion
Philips TV = PixelPlus
Samsung TV = MoviePlus
Panasonic TV = Intelligent frame creation

All of these are framerate enhancer. If a 30fps is rocksteady enough (locked), turn the enhancer on, and you will have a smooth 60fps. No joke inside, My sony Z4500 200hz did this, and now my new Panny ST60. I actually play KZSF and InfamousSS (newly 30fps locked) at 60fps.

you actually believe this don't you

 

[TheCloser]

Sony TV = motionflow
LG TV = truemotion
Philips TV = PixelPlus
Samsung TV = MoviePlus
Panasonic TV = Intelligent frame creation

All of these are framerate enhancer. If a 30fps is rocksteady enough (locked), turn the enhancer on, and you will have a smooth 60fps. No joke inside, My sony Z4500 200hz did this, and now my new Panny ST60. I actually play KZSF and InfamousSS (newly 30fps locked) at 60fps.

Omg, i'm dying of laughter. LOL, wow.

 

[BumblebeeCody]

With this generation of consoles why aren't we getting technology that's saying "Yeah I can easily display 1440P at 200FPS if needed"? This is impressive?

 

[Objectively Bad Opinion]

They should price games based on pixel fillrate.

A 1080p framebuffer should cost 1 dollar. If the game gives you 60 1080p frames per second, then it should cost 60 dollars. This game would only cost 30 dollars, because it's giving you only half of the pixels a 60 fps game would.

Good idea, right?

And this way, even the Bone could compete. Behold:

720p60: 26 dollars and 70 cents
792p60: 32 dollars and 27 cents
900p60: 41 dollars and 70 cents

And developers can charge extra for patches that increase resolution or performance.

 

[soundscream]

http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2014/04/30/driveclub-update-evolution-studios-2/

This has me worried. Was planning on selling my Fanatec setup, and if Logitech truly is out of the game that limits the amount of people who would buy want to buy it, because Fantec wheels emulate the G27.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

I don't like 60fps because of "reaction times" as most would claim as it is after all supposed to be gameplay related.

The brain is very good at compensating for latency under a certain treshold (that's how we can drum in sync with the tempo even though the arm movements take several hundred miliseconds)

I like them "frames per seconds" because it makes motion smooth as butter. I like butter. Racing games have a lot of motion. Smooth motion is very pleasing to my eyes.

Arcade racer, simulation racer is a moot point. We are not losing control of the car because of 30fps in a sim racer or brake at the wrong time.

This. This. This.

60FPS produces extremely fluid animations that are quite pleasing to the eye. But beyond that I won't really appreciate the shortened response time. I think it's poppy cock.

60FPS IS eye candy, but so are things like Global Illumination, enhanced anti-alliasing, full resolution, per object motion blur, real time shadows, higher polygon counts etc etc etc. The question becomes how many of that broad spectrum of visual enhancements are you willing to sacrifice to have a smoother image. It's always give and take. Who's to say Evolution's implementations won't convince some of the die hards. That motion blur and anti-alliasing make the image look like CG (lol computer generated) at times. I definitely want that.

Anyone who's seriously adamant about pushing 60FPS down everyone's throat really should be a PC gamer. On PC, that's your call to make, not the developers, but on consoles you're at the mercy of their choices.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

While 60 fps would have been nice, I can live with 30 as long as there aren't severe dips or anything. I have no idea when people became 60 fps snobs, it's silly. 30 fps is perfectly playable.

 

[booxohan]

With those visuals I could not expect more than 30 fps. It is said 1080p60 fps theoretically requires double the horsepower than 1080p30 fps. Double the horsepower means an AMD 7970 GPU equivalent. Yeah. Not this generation.

 

[hesido]

you actually believe this don't you

This is actually true. However, these post process "frame upscaling" enhancements may add massive latencies, e.g. Philips sets I've seen add more than half a second making games absolutely unplayable.

That said, my LG LW4500 was fast enough that you could play Uncharted3 with it, making most motion on screen 60fps. My brother could play BF BC2 on his Samsung with that turned on, tho that model was not as good as my LG in interpolating motion.

We now both have that turned off tho.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Am I the only gamer who possesses a TV with a Intelligent Frame Creation mode (framerate enhancer) that enables to turn a 30fps into a 60fps ?
I don't give a f**k if the game turn at 30fps with gorgeous graphics, 'cause I will play it at a smooth 60pfs at the condition the framerate is locked as I did for KZSF and InfamousSS...
My Panny will fix it...

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeell no

 

[Uno Venova]

I appreciate the game you've made so far Evolution, but I'm going to need you to tighten up the frames per second there. Do you know how fucking mad I get when all games don't meet my technical standards. You don't want to.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Great looking game regardless of the framerate.

How did this thread get so big, people expected 60fps?

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

The game has real time global illumination. That's an absolute beast in terms of performance and has a dramatic impact on the look of the game. If any game mentions that feature and is running in 1080p, then chances of 60fps have probably gone out the window.

Well OK fine.

I still wish they had just gone with more stock canned lighting and given us 60 FPS.

Real-time lighting is nice, but honestly 60 FPS is nicer.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

Great looking game regardless of the framerate.

How did this thread get so big, people expected 60fps?

Dude, they were dropping hints and suggestions that it might be all along through development.

They really dug their own grave on this one. They should've realized that 60 FPS wasn't feasible with the features they were implementing and never mentioned 60
FPS in the first place.

In this case, the fault is there for the 60 FPS expectations.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Well OK fine.

I still wish they had just gone with more stock canned lighting and given us 60 FPS.

Real-time lighting is nice, but honestly 60 FPS is nicer.

Unless of course, every track can be played at any time of day Night racing for the win.

Dude, they were dropping hints and suggestions that it might be all along through development.

They really dug their own grave on this one. They should've realized that 60 FPS wasn't feasible with the features they were implementing and never mentioned 60
FPS in the first place.

In this case, the fault is there for the 60 FPS expectations.

I agree. They probably should have avoided all the speculation lol.

 

[Wereroku]

Well OK fine.

I still wish they had just gone with more stock canned lighting and given us 60 FPS.

Real-time lighting is nice, but honestly 60 FPS is nicer.

At this point that would involve entirely redoing the lighting system. It would also involve forzas method of drawing the shadows on each level. This would probably get rid of time of day selection and cut down the number of tracks. With this method they can design a track and import it much faster than forza.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

At this point that would involve entirely redoing the lighting system. It would also involve forzas method of drawing the shadows on each level. This would probably get rid of time of day selection and cut down the number of tracks. With this method they can design a track and import it much faster than forza.

Absolutely, the more dynamic systems in place the better. That's the real next gen experience to me. I love the thought of them being able to just create a track, and have the lighting automatically work. Drop in additional geometry, and have the shadows cast themselves, etc etc etc.

I imagine it's a great tool for the developers. More work up front, but saves so much in the long haul.

 

[Goddard]

When you are 30 fps and ok graphics you know its ok based on limitations of dev

However, if you don't have limitations and can go to 60 fps but the graphics are just ok, wouldn't a better decision be to up the gfx and reduce fps. Look at forza 5

If fps matters more than gfx then why not keep developing for the last gen until tools are mature enough to make do both eventually

You are drunk, go home. fps has always and always will matter more than graphics when playing video games.

 

[Rogue_Ledr]

I agree. They probably should have avoided all the speculation lol.

The thing is the 30 FPS thing wouldn't have been all that big of a deal, IF it hasn't been proclaimed after the litany of delays this thing has had. The delays only compounded the disappointment, because people were expecting them to enhance the game with all those delays they had.

The lighting is nice, but it was planned from the start.

 

[SargerusBR]

Nope, a racing game at 30fps is unnaceptable

 

[computers putin']

Disappointing, but expected. It can still be fun at 30fps though, just look at Forza Horizon(my favorite racer of last gen). The game better be a locked 30fps though or no buy, and hopefully Logitech helps them out with driver support for the G27

 

[spookyfish]

"Driveclub director - 1080p/30FPS is absolutely the best for our game."

No, 1080p/60FPS is absolutely the best for your game.

1080p/30FPS is the best you could do.

 

[boredandlazy]

I'm fine with 30fps. Still not sure if I'll be buying this game though, but at least I can try it out via PS+.

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

"Driveclub director - 1080p/30FPS is absolutely the best for our game."

No, 1080p/60FPS is absolutely the best for your game.

1080p/30FPS is the best you could do.

Well technically speaking, cutting the framerate in half, doubles the amount of ram each frame has access to. So if they were planning massive draw distances with tons of geometry and accurate lighting on all of it, then his statement would be correct lol.

If they were planning to utilize as much ram as possible, then 60 FPS would hemorrhage them.

 

[dr guildo]

you actually believe this don't you

Why to believe a thing when you can simply know it by experiencing it ?
You know, TVs exist so just test by yourself. I have one of these, a 2013 series model. And I tell it again, I'm experiencing KZSF at a good 60fps since it has been locked to 30fps. Infamous is a bit less stable since it's not a lock but a caped 30fps. However, it's still managing to run the most time at 60fps.

 

[Duallusion]

I was fine with 720/30 in Forza Horizon and PGR4 - more then fine, in fact; I consider them one of the best racers ever - so I'm pretty sure I'll be fine with 1080/30 in Driveclub.

60fps would be nice and appreciated but I don't want all my next-gen console racers to look like upscaled last-gen ones to reach that goal.

 

[oxidax]

I'm OK with it. Just give it to me.

 

[drugstore_cowboy]

Dude, they were dropping hints and suggestions that it might be all along through development.

They really dug their own grave on this one. They should've realized that 60 FPS wasn't feasible with the features they were implementing and never mentioned 60
FPS in the first place.

In this case, the fault is there for the 60 FPS expectations.

Right, sorry for that then as I haven't followed the game in a while. Back when the game was dropping frames and tearing at 30fps I thought it was accepted that they'd be working on optimisation and tidying up the frame rate, I wouldn't have expected them to double it. If they hinted at 60fps in the meantime I missed it.

 

[kriskrosbbk]

With this generation of consoles why aren't we getting technology that's saying "Yeah I can easily display 1440P at 200FPS if needed"? This is impressive?

Because it won't cost $399.

 

[IN&OUT]

With this generation of consoles why aren't we getting technology that's saying "Yeah I can easily display 1440P at 200FPS if needed"? This is impressive?

Costs?

 

[CambriaRising]

Why to believe a thing when you can simply know it by experiencing it ?
You know, TVs exist so just test by yourself. I have one of these, a 2013 series model. And I tell it again, I'm experiencing KZSF at a good 60fps since it has been locked to 30fps. Infamous is a bit less stable since it's not a lock but a caped 30fps. However, it's still managing to run the most time at 60fps.

In case no one has told you yet.

No, no you are not. It doesn't work that way. Not to mention that you are adding tons of input lag to your games due to post processing.

 

[Raven Prime]

Right, sorry for that then as I haven't followed the game in a while. Back when the game was dropping frames and tearing at 30fps I thought it was accepted that they'd be working on optimisation and tidying up the frame rate, I wouldn't have expected them to double it. If they hinted at 60fps in the meantime I missed it.

All I remember reading was that they were looking into it and that there were internal discussions about it, the environment art guys wanted to cram as much eyecandy in as possible. Quite frankly I'm glad they chose that path. Not every game needs to be 60fps.

 

[EvB]

I appreciate the game you've made so far Evolution, but I'm going to need you to tighten up the frames per second there. Do you know how fucking mad I get when all games don't meet my technical standards. You don't want to.

I bet they are quaking in their boots.

 

[Bloodrage]

If they want to keep those gorgeous graphics, 30fps is definitely the best option. Leave the prebaked bullshit at the door.

 

[Raven Prime]

With this generation of consoles why aren't we getting technology that's saying "Yeah I can easily display 1440P at 200FPS if needed"? This is impressive?

Because the console industry wants to survive? Besides I'm sure the specs are there to do 1440p @ 200fps, but the games just wouldn't look even close to #DC.

 

[BY2K]

Sony TV = motionflow
LG TV = truemotion
Philips TV = PixelPlus
Samsung TV = MoviePlus
Panasonic TV = Intelligent frame creation

All of these are framerate enhancer. If a 30fps is rocksteady enough (locked), turn the enhancer on, and you will have a smooth 60fps. No joke inside, My sony Z4500 200hz did this, and now my new Panny ST60. I actually play KZSF and InfamousSS (newly 30fps locked) at 60fps.

People actually believe those trumotion bullshit?

 

[Cubed]

Yep!

No issue here. As long as the framerate doesn't drop, I'm fine with 30fps.

Gimme. The. Dang. Game.

 

[MisterXDTV]

People just want 399$ hardware to give them 4K/120fps with no effort, while expecting super graphics quality...

There's no way to make everybody happy, so relax and take it easy...

 

[Uno Venova]

I bet they are quaking in their boots.

Hell yeah, my Neogaf complaining has changed exactly 0 design decisions so far.

 

[mkenyon]

Agreed. But only when there's a PC port.

This so much. Give me the goodies at 120 FPS plz.

 

[orochi91]

If they want to keep those gorgeous graphics, 30fps is definitely the best option. Leave the prebaked bullshit at the door.

Yep!

No issue here. As long as the framerate doesn't drop, I'm fine with 30fps.

Gimme. The. Dang. Game.

I agree! 30fps with good motion blur is the way to go. This will ensure no other
design choice is compromised. That global illumination will be stellar.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

All I remember reading was that they were looking into it and that there were internal discussions about it, the environment art guys wanted to cram as much eyecandy in as possible. Quite frankly I'm glad they chose that path. Not every game needs to be 60fps.

I think we're in a really bad place when "environment art guys" get to make such an important decision about how a game plays.

A 30 fps racer is a joke.

 

[mkenyon]

I agree! 30fps with good motion blur is the way to go. This will ensure no other
design choice is compromised. That global illumination will be stellar.

Bolded is a contradiction. There is no such thing as good motion blur. The only time it's good is when it doesn't exist.

 

[Raven Prime]

I think we're in a really bad place when "environment art guys" get to make such an important decision about how a game plays.

A 30 fps racer is a joke.

To you yes, I'm sure millions of gamers will enjoy the experience.

 

[dr guildo]

In case no one has told you yet.

No, no you are not. It doesn't work that way. Not to mention that you are adding tons of input lag to your games due to post processing.

Just read my previous posts before posting as mister "know it all" please... You learn me nothing...

 

[ChronotriggerJM]

Bolded is a contradiction. There is no such thing as good motion blur. The only time it's good is when it doesn't exist.

Per object motion blur is amazing. Games would look so awkward without motion blur. Plus racing games would be unplayable without any sense of speed lol.

 

[Kumubou]

I never understood the whole "arcade racers are fine at 30fps" mentality. The driving model is simpler than a simulation, sure... but they can still get really damn demanding and require a high level of precision on their own. Even something that looks simple to drive (like Outrun 2) can require a very high level of precision to put up world-class times.

I was fine with 720/30 in Forza Horizon and PGR4 - more then fine, in fact; I consider them one of the best racers ever - so I'm pretty sure I'll be fine with 1080/30 in Driveclub.

60fps would be nice and appreciated but I don't want all my next-gen console racers to look like upscaled last-gen ones to reach that goal.

I'm mostly on board with this. I would rather have the game (and every racing game, honestly) run at 60fps, but most of the good arcade racers from last generation (PGR4, Forza Horizon, Need For Speed: Most Wanted, Blur, etc.) all ran at 30fps on consoles. However, they all still had responsive handling and played well enough. So as long as they get the controls right at 30fps, it should be OK.

Personally, I blame Youtube for all this 30fps nonsense. -_- (/s... kind of)

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

More effects > 60fps. All day.

 

[JAYSIMPLE]

I remember forza horizon and pgr getting panned when they were 30fps. I'm sure they did?

I think 60 is important for a racer. I just can't take 30 fps as serious. I can still be fun and look pretty but I can't take it seriously as a racer