Just checked the frame data and light spire 9 active frames. You definitely don't have to hit on the last active frame. If T.Hawk can be at +7 on hit, that opens up quite a few options. I don't play T.Hawk so I'm not sure what kind of knock back the move has so combos may not be possible.
Super Street Fighter 4 Æ |OT5| Waiting to go from Super to Ultra
- Thread starter Kadey
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Just checked the frame data and light spire 9 active frames. You definitely don't have to hit on the last active frame. If T.Hawk can be at +7 on hit, that opens up quite a few options. I don't play T.Hawk so I'm not sure what kind of knock back the move has so combos may not be possible.
CountBlack
Member
Mannn I was getting bodied by this Hawk today and I was using Deejay. Shit I thought I won that matchup -__-
What do you do when they just block and tech the whole time and you're Deejay? You have no overhead or cheap shit to hit them with and when I slowly get walked into the corner .. gggggg
Plus I do baby damage to THawk :/
CountBlack
Member
the matchup in a nutshell:
obviously, we are fchamp.
those fucking spires
they're really buffing those fucking spires
Professor Beef
Banned
You still have those god-forsaken upkicks.
CountBlack
Member
Whats an upkick to a safe jump
Rice-Eater
Member
But I want to do my ambiguous jump ins that I do against almost everybody else but DJ won't ever let me
black_vegeta
Member
You guys are lacking rhythm and you worry too much.
Follow the teachings of the the DeeJay titles!
Professor Beef
Banned
I guess this gives me an excuse to practice safejumps against Deejay. To training mode!
...in the morning.
...in the morning.
Passive Assassin
Member
ggs rice. i still hate yun.
Rice-Eater
Member
And I hate you, err I mean Ibuki. Trying to win with Evil Ryu against Ibuki can be so frustrating because I'm at her mercy after a knockdown, from full screen, or even half screen because you can so easily punish my fireballs. Gotta fight derp with derp sometimes.
Passive Assassin
Member
yeah it was pretty funny when i can just os neckbreaker or forward dash to throw e.ryu's teleport. yun though on the other hand. the divekick is real! shoutouts to low profiling eryu's and yun's divekicks setup after knockdown!
Shouta
Member
I don't think the hitstun and knock back is enough to make it very comboable but I'll have to test it out this weekend.
I would as well. Top players have proven multiple times that they have next to no clue how to approach the matchup (they usually treat it the same as they would guile which is completely wrong)
It's usually the not-quite-top players that know what to do.
And this isn't exclusive to deejay, its something i see with a lot of underused chars and it really bothers me.
Not to say that dakou isnt incredibly skilled or anything (he definitely is and his DJ is definitely on point), but that little stint at canada cup wasnt really proof of anything and more of an embarassment on the opponent's side.
It's usually the not-quite-top players that know what to do.
And this isn't exclusive to deejay, its something i see with a lot of underused chars and it really bothers me.
Not to say that dakou isnt incredibly skilled or anything (he definitely is and his DJ is definitely on point), but that little stint at canada cup wasnt really proof of anything and more of an embarassment on the opponent's side.
CountBlack
Member
idk. I have the best Deejay on the planet and I faced KBrad's Cammy in a tournament and well.. F R E E.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
I hate myself so I'm playing this game again. Lots of practicing Ryu combos and barely-adequate practicing in ranked.
Rice-Eater
Member
Speaking of that, I lab monster like crazy. I mean I literally spend way more time practicing links, set ups, and OS's. But when it comes to game time I almost never use most of those set ups and OS's.
The other day I was practicing cr. LK OS Ultra because it's a lot easier than the cr. LP version. I was able to do it maybe 60% of the time. At the end of the day I said "Man, it would be cool if I could pull this off once in a match. But in the end I don't use these things because I simply forget about them, don't have the confidence in doing them correctly, or I'm too stubborn to change my approach to the way I pressure people on wake up.
How do you pressure people? Basic safe jump setup with mK or dive kick?
Rice-Eater
Member
From a throw or EX axe kick(hard knockdown) I normally go for dive kick or ambiguous j. MK. The possibility of guessing right and getting huge damage off of it just makes me want to go for it so much even though I notice that my opponent is blocking it every time or are finding ways to escape. Off a HP DP I normally go for tick throws and try to condition my opponent into tech'ing so I can try to blow it up with a frame trap or hop kick into EX tatsu. I get DP'd quite a bit on wake up because I don't want to let up.
The only time I go for a safe jump is off a light DP, and that has to be timed manually but it's not that hard to do. Only reason I don't like that too much is because the jab DP has a lot of push back so my safe jump is hitting at the tip and I can't OS into moves like sweep, cr. MK into whatever if they back dash.
With Ultra coming up and everybody's set ups not being guaranteed anymore, I really do need to start moving away from this jumping stuff and work more on frame traps an OS's. I'm sure it will help me improve as a player as well so I'll have the muscle memory to do them in other situations besides knockdowns.
Thanks for typing that out. I've been looking really hard at learning Evil Ryu lately.
How do you think he does in the Akuma, Seth, Viper, Ibuki matchups?
biosnake20
Member
I've been playing Sagat for like 2 years now and I just found out he can cancel his towards short into angry scar, neat.
Thats not so bad. I've been playing Gouken since vanilla and I recently found out he can do st.fierce, fireball, cr.fierce, fireball in the corner on like half the cast.
Then FADC sweep? That's pretty crazy his damage in the corner is insane.
You can FADC into cr.fierce > fireball > sweep. Although if you're gonna spend two bars, its better to go into EX palm as early as possible and do EX fireball into either sweep/tatsu/ultra. I guess its useful if you wanna style on someone towards the end of the round haha.
Hm, I'm kind of wanting to get back into Street Fighter 4, even though I'm pretty terrible at it, and a year's break away from it probably hasn't helped any with that. Still, I'm feeling that Street Fighting itch, so I should at least probably check out my options for getting back in the game and keep my 10% win rate up. ...yeah. I'm not that good.
Anyway, what ARE my options for Street Fighter 4 right now?
I got SF4AE2012 on my PS3, so there's that. Is the game active in Europe/PS3 still? I mean, I fully expect anyone who's playing online now to just blow me out of the water, but who cares. As long as I can put up a fight I can improve.
The other option is getting SF4AE2012 on Steam for PC as I doubt that will ever truly die. But they haven't removed GFWL from that yet, have they? Can I even use GFWL anymore? Didn't that get shut down or something? I mean, my long plan is Ultra for PC since the PS3's generation is slowly ending and the PC is still going strong. So getting AE for PC would help make Ultra cheaper, but also two months later. Maybe get it both for PS3 and PC?
As for characters, I used to play Sakura and Zangief, but I think that I could go for anything right now. Will probably keep one of them. My execution isn't great, but that's just muscle memory. I was thinking of trying out Makoto, Ibuki, and Guile back when AE was fresh, I just never got around to it. Anyone else I should try? Ryu, maybe? Can't go wrong with Ryu, even if he's the default choice, sort of. I was never able to do that FADC combo with him, though. Rose is also an option. I just like her design.
Anyway, what ARE my options for Street Fighter 4 right now?
I got SF4AE2012 on my PS3, so there's that. Is the game active in Europe/PS3 still? I mean, I fully expect anyone who's playing online now to just blow me out of the water, but who cares. As long as I can put up a fight I can improve.
The other option is getting SF4AE2012 on Steam for PC as I doubt that will ever truly die. But they haven't removed GFWL from that yet, have they? Can I even use GFWL anymore? Didn't that get shut down or something? I mean, my long plan is Ultra for PC since the PS3's generation is slowly ending and the PC is still going strong. So getting AE for PC would help make Ultra cheaper, but also two months later. Maybe get it both for PS3 and PC?
As for characters, I used to play Sakura and Zangief, but I think that I could go for anything right now. Will probably keep one of them. My execution isn't great, but that's just muscle memory. I was thinking of trying out Makoto, Ibuki, and Guile back when AE was fresh, I just never got around to it. Anyone else I should try? Ryu, maybe? Can't go wrong with Ryu, even if he's the default choice, sort of. I was never able to do that FADC combo with him, though. Rose is also an option. I just like her design.
Rice-Eater
Member
LOL, you just named 3 of his worse match ups. If you're having a hard time with those 3 characters using Sagat, you'll still have a hard time with them using Evil Ryu.
Seth: I think it's actually even, annoying but even. Evil Ryu actually has a corner and mid screen unblockable against Seth. Land one of these and it's basically a wrap.
Ibuki: Really bad match up. When knockdown'd she gets unblockables and teleport gets punished easily. From full screen or mid, she can react to fireballs with neckbreaker or slide. Hard to anti air if she does a early kunai from forward jump. You're force to try to get in her face, but that's not easy in itself.
Viper: Also pretty bad, she does so much damage and stun and he has low stun. The biggest problem for Evil Ryu is that he can't low profile her air burn kicks like other Shoto's can. Not even sure how to approach this match up, I just pray that I'm on the lucky end of random shit.
Akuma: Again, pretty bad. He's just better than Evil Ryu in almost every way. Faster walk speed and normals help him dominate footsies. And Evil Ryu can't do anything against well spaced neutral and jump back air fireballs. I think this is actually his most winnable of the 3, but you'll need a lot of patience.
Yun is my back up character and I would use him to counter Viper and Ibuki. Against Akuma I tend to still stick with Evil Ryu just because it's a shoto match up. So it's something I feel comfortable fighting, even when it's bad for me. In Ultra I think the Akuma match up will be close to even because DWU really hurts him. But I still think Viper and Ibuki will be bad for Evil Ryu.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
What kind of cool setups and stuff do you have? I'm going to be playing E.Ryu much much more in Ultra and I'd love to have some stuff. I love trying this stuff out online since I'm completely fine with tossing away a match in favor of learning something.
stn
Member
I'm just curious. How come people say "you can't do anything" when referring to strategies against certain fireball-throwers? Take, for example, Akuma's air fireball jumping back. I don't find fireballs to be all that powerful in SF4, especially when it comes to playing lame. Most characters who have a fireball can't even win a round off of pure fireballs and AA'ing (that includes Akuma). ST is a game where you literally can't do anything against fireballs if you make one mistake. If ST is a 10/10 in terms of projectile effectiveness, SF4 is a 5-6.
Blockstun is so low, neutral jumps are easy to time, trip guard exists, and jumps cover so much range that you can get into footsie range without too much hassle. That's not even including EX moves, ultras, and focus dashing forward. In fact, fireballs in SF4 seem to be used more for meter building and close-range poking as opposed to being used as AA-sweep traps.
Its not that I care too much since I generally main rush-down characters with good mid-range poking. But I'm just curious in general because it feels like I'm not playing the same SF4 sometimes based on comments I see.
EDIT: Yes, I acknowledge that Guile is good at playing lame. But he's one character out of the 44 (including USF4). Sagat also has good fireballs but even he is forced to play the neutral/footsie game versus most characters. Gouken also has a solid fireball. Again, that's a small handful of characters. Also, these characters all have trouble with dive-kickers or characters with ambiguous jumps. I don't think that's a coincidence.
Blockstun is so low, neutral jumps are easy to time, trip guard exists, and jumps cover so much range that you can get into footsie range without too much hassle. That's not even including EX moves, ultras, and focus dashing forward. In fact, fireballs in SF4 seem to be used more for meter building and close-range poking as opposed to being used as AA-sweep traps.
Its not that I care too much since I generally main rush-down characters with good mid-range poking. But I'm just curious in general because it feels like I'm not playing the same SF4 sometimes based on comments I see.
EDIT: Yes, I acknowledge that Guile is good at playing lame. But he's one character out of the 44 (including USF4). Sagat also has good fireballs but even he is forced to play the neutral/footsie game versus most characters. Gouken also has a solid fireball. Again, that's a small handful of characters. Also, these characters all have trouble with dive-kickers or characters with ambiguous jumps. I don't think that's a coincidence.
Shouta
Member
Jump back fireball is really annoying online, especially if you have a poor walk speed. It's not too bad in person though as you have finer control of your movement and can do stuff to beat it.
I played a laggy ass Ken that only just threw fireballs and jumped back the entire time. I kept getting hit because I couldn't time my attacks correctly to stuff his junk.
I played a laggy ass Ken that only just threw fireballs and jumped back the entire time. I kept getting hit because I couldn't time my attacks correctly to stuff his junk.
EX Hawk Dive to get through fireball runaway?
One of the first things gillie brokedown iirc
Shouta
Member
Bad use of meter, still not safe, for the most part.
kevo_huevo
Member
disappointing music for the new stages. should have kept the mad gear hideout and jurassic park themes from sfxt
Are the portaits done by a different artist? The style seems really off to me in comparison to the rest of the cast. Maybe it's just a placeholder until they touch it up later?
All of the portraits are touched up screencaps of the in-game models.
stn
Member
I am quite hyped to use Rolento and his Udon alt! I've used him in SFxT extensively and think he's an excellent character. I'm not sure if he'll be better in SF4 but I still think he'll be good. He has good options and is quite versatile, all he's missing is a better cr. mk (its...average). Still, excited.
direct_quote
Member
Yo anyone up for some games on psn?? psn
ominus_what
ominus_whatThat's disappointing to hear.
Rice-Eater
Member
These set ups will not be guaranteed anymore in USF4, but Evil Ryu has corner set ups against the entire cast. Either unblockables(very few) or fake cross ups(the vast majority). This guy named Essex made a video showing most of them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft-50FYor6g
With DWU in USF4, we're going to have to find new stuff since most of this is from a hard knockdown.
Overall effectiveness, fireballs aren't that great. In certain match ups they're a nightmare. Just look at Sagat-Geif or Juri-Geif. Evil Ryu-Akuma isn't that extreme, but it's a losing match up in just about every situation. The air fireballs is just the icing on the cake. I can only dodge them, but unlike other characters, I have no way to punish it unless I'm really up close.
But I would say most people say that because they really can't do anything unless they're upclose. They don't a move to bypass fireballs so they get extremely annoyed by moves like Akuma's air fireball or Juri's barrage of fireballs. But basically they have no choice to to be the aggressor even if they don't want to be because they may eat some fireballs and some chip so they have to start chasing because time might be running down. This is true for me anyways. And it's actually part of the reason characters like Rose, Akuma, and Juri beat Evil Ryu. They out zone him easily even though he's a zoner himself.
stn
Member
@Rice Eater
Ah, fair enough. Yes, I'd agree that fireballs can be a hassle in some limited matchups. For example, Akuma/Guile/Dhalsim versus Zangief. Also, Dhalsim/Guile versus Hugo makes zoning in ST look weak, lol. But I think this is a small factor in comparison to the rest of the game.
As for E. Ryu? Well, I think the character has more options than most of the cast. He can't be vortexed very well, he can engage in a fireball war long-range with his shaku, and his regular fireball is solid even by SF4 standards. Also, he has the damage to kill Akuma REALLY fast. I could see Akuma winning but only if he plays perfectly, which is much how I feel about Akuma v. Ryu.
Still, I DO think the match will be even or slightly in E. Ryu's favor in USF4. Nerfed fireballs and lack of sweep cancel into U1 will make it easier for E. Ryu to be aggressive. Plus his health buff.
Ah, fair enough. Yes, I'd agree that fireballs can be a hassle in some limited matchups. For example, Akuma/Guile/Dhalsim versus Zangief. Also, Dhalsim/Guile versus Hugo makes zoning in ST look weak, lol. But I think this is a small factor in comparison to the rest of the game.
As for E. Ryu? Well, I think the character has more options than most of the cast. He can't be vortexed very well, he can engage in a fireball war long-range with his shaku, and his regular fireball is solid even by SF4 standards. Also, he has the damage to kill Akuma REALLY fast. I could see Akuma winning but only if he plays perfectly, which is much how I feel about Akuma v. Ryu.
Still, I DO think the match will be even or slightly in E. Ryu's favor in USF4. Nerfed fireballs and lack of sweep cancel into U1 will make it easier for E. Ryu to be aggressive. Plus his health buff.
Rice-Eater
Member
-He gets vortex'd just like everyone else, teleport is too slow so it's not a great escape
-shaku has worse recovery than Akuma's shaku, he's more susceptible to demon flip when using it
Yes his damage is great, but what good is that damage if you never land it. That's the issue here, Akuma is always in the air throwing air fireballs and dominates Evil Ryu in footsies when they fight that fight. He can also pressure Evil Ryu after knockdowns while Evil Ryu will have to back off or guess right(as in which way Akuma teleports, if he does) if he scores a knockdown. I do think it will be closer to even in USF4 because of the nerfs to AKuma and the buffs to Evil Ryu.
The Mango Sentinel
Member
The delayed wakeup is only on hard knockdowns, right? Or can you do it on any knockdown?
Ah I guess the shoto archetype just struggles against these characters. I would think that Evil Ryu probably does better than Sagat just due to damage potential (Sagat does pathetic damage).
Maybe with Evil's buffs in Ultra these MU's will even out.
XBL??
direct_quote
Member
PSN ?
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