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[Graphics Horse]

I think with Mario Kart and Smash the Wii U can drag its corpse to 4 million and I think Nintendo believes this as well. They always predict way higher than the end result and have to apologize, maybe they're doing this so they can say "look! sales were over our expectations!" But that's only if they're lucky and regardless, it isn't hitting more than 4 million and that's saddening

If that's the idea they should say that they expect sales will be steady instead of raising last years by a third.

 

[Faustek]

90% of what's released on those platforms in the AAA space is crap though IMO.

Prove me wrong by showing me some really exciting gameplay from something coming out by the end of this year cause all I see is mostly the same generic trash we've been getting for the past 8 years.

What? Is this irony?

anyway, a bit off topic but I was wondering if someone could fill me in on Yamauchis third party rules in full. If those are actually known.

On topic. Yeah they're not reaching those numbers on 3DS. I can see the Wii U doing it though. All depends on E3... Zelda, please! Don't pull a GC/Wii please..please?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Maybe that's why 3rd party fail to be successful on Nintendo platforms, we (Nintendo fans) have to high demands on what the quality of the games should be?

Im not gonna lie, that is probably 100% true. I wish Nintendo just made a console that they could only cater to Nintendo fans and get profit. Third parties can put games if they wish but it wouldnt be needed for Nintendo to have success and profitable for this vision. I think its true cause I cant play certain games cause they are flat out boring compared to Nintendo's own offerings.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Iwata wanted a 100 Billion yen profit and got a 23.2 Billion yen loss

.....

Is this real?

Posting for new page. Am I correct with this?

 

[danmaku]

To what end though? Third party support is negligible, so the only reason why Nintendo would deliberately take the hit on these niche titles is so people have the hardware to buy their own cash-cow titles. Which seems like odd logic to me: surely their most popular franchises - the Mario Karts, the Smash Bros - are much more likely to convince people to buy the console than relatively niche titles like X and Wonderful 101.

And if it was about diversity, why on earth would Nintendo make so many damn 2D platform games anyway? Yes, I know Kirby is different to Donkey Kong, which is different to Yoshi, which is different to Mario, but they're all riffing on a very similar theme.

There's a middle ground between "awful bomba" and "Wii Sports". They knew W101 wasn't going to become a mainstream hit, but they were hoping to attract the hardcore gamers and make a profit. Bayonetta 1 was profitable, even if it didn't sell as much as CoD, they're trying to do the same with Bayo2.

 

[th4tguy]

I haven't cared much for Nintendo's home console offerings since the 64, but I do love their handhelds. I hope to see their next console merge the two.

 

[Shiggy]

Maybe that's why 3rd party fail to be successful on Nintendo platforms, we (Nintendo fans) have to high demands on what the quality of the games should be?

Doesn't explain the sales of titles such as Yoshi's New Island, Mario Party 3DS, and NSMB2. So that's not really an adequate explanation.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

Like agree with the VC part. The other part is not "nintendo is stupid" but "nintendo always valued BC" (and probably their in house engines), so when they had a choice between working on an improved version of their current platforms - or break with their current technology path, they made the former. This had some strategic disadvantages, mainly a huge technology gap between their handhelds and their home consoles, in addition to scalability and the use of tools by other companies that were made to work on these (modern) architectures instead of ARM and IBM powerPC processors.

PS4 doesn't have BC with PS3 and yet my purchases of Sound Shapes and Flower carry right over.

PSP games play on Vita, PS3 games are cross buy with PSP and Vita and PS4, and yet these consoles do not have BC with one another.

This is an artificial anticonsumer boundary that Nintendo has created. A PS3 game doesn't work natively on PS4, it has to be ported, and yet Sony generally does not make you buy the port a second time. You just get it, because even if the codebase is different the consumer views it as the same product.

In the case of the VC it is literally the same product. If you buy two 3DSes you can't have your legally purchased games on both of them, and there is no BC issue since those are also literally the same product.

it is straight anticonsumer. XBOX LIVE, Steam, PSN, and iTunes figured all this out at some point in the last 6-12 years. A song you bought on iTunes in 2001 on an iPod can be on your Touch, iPad, iPhone, and iMac today for $0 after your initial purchase. If I bought Super Mario Bros in 2006 on Wii I have to buy it again in 2010 on 3DS and again on Wii U in 2012.

 

[Schnozberry]

So you're not going to acknowledge the PLAYSTATION side of business? You know, the company that brought in a profit this Q4when this when their suppose to lose money?

Sony is hemorrhaging money. Gaming and insurance are doing well, the rest is a horror show. It's too bad really.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Real estate is an absolute premium in Japan. Property prices aren't falling by any stretch.

That's not how accounting for fixed assets with finite productive lives works...

Nintendo can only recognise a gain if and when they do sell the asset and only if the sale exceeds the book value.

 

[Chindogg]

So you're not going to acknowledge the PLAYSTATION side of business? You know, the divison that brought in a profit this quarter when this when their suppose to lose money?

What does Playstation have to do with their TVs? This should be common sense when talking about video games

Reread what I said.

Playstation would not be as successful if it didn't have other divisions to prop it up early on. Now they've been able to be a success on their own, despite the majority of their other divisions completely failing. Playstation alone won't save Sony, but their insurance is keeping them afloat.

 

[Graphics Horse]

Posting for new page. Am I correct with this?

yup

 

[clav]

Wii-U Price drop incoming

Spoiler

for 2015

?

 

[BGBW]

Maybe that's why 3rd party fail to be successful on Nintendo platforms, we (Nintendo fans) have to high demands on what the quality of the games should be?

Well I'm going to avoid the idea that third party games are somehow lesser than Nintendo's offerings, but third parties should be aware that it is very easy to find out when their product on another system performs better than it does on a Nintendo system and I'm sure enough people have filled out one of those survey card to inform them that people do own more than one system. The Wii U likely has a consumer base that skews towards the informed consumer. Now of course there are exceptions like NFS being better of Wii U and not performing well but at the same time that was a late port and those interested in it may have already played it on another system.

 

[Exploratory]

Maybe that's why 3rd party fail to be successful on Nintendo platforms, we (Nintendo fans) have to high demands on what the quality of the games should be?

Oh my god.

Edit: You're basically saying you have much better tastes than non Nintendo fans. You're basically loving that high art while we suffer the best pop culture has to offer.

 

[PdotMichael]

They didn't even have enough office space to accommodate a sufficient number of developers to get Wii U games out in a timely manner, so yes, they absolutely are.

Their output isn't even that low. It's just that they suck at working with third parties together.

 

[The Horror the horror]

I like Iwata

I think his heart was always in the right place. His largest flaw is his unwillingness to acknowledge his competitors and the trends/standards that were being set in motion.

In both the games space and the "new markets" he was hoping to exploit

Those flaws are enough to give him a golden parachute. Old ship captains have been thrown overboard for their inability to adjust to the change in the wind.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Oh my god.

That's why I don't buy third party multi platforms on Nintendo systems. Nintendo games have so much polish and tight gameplay and performance that puts to shame 3rd party games on their system. Not all the time though.

 

[Tripon]

So you're not going to acknowledge the PLAYSTATION side of business? You know, the divison that brought in a profit this quarter when this when their suppose to lose money?

What does Playstation have to do with their TVs? This should be common sense when talking about video games

The point is that anyone talking all roses with Sony by just pointing out the Playstation division is going to be surprised when Sony has to declare bankruptcy. Because that is the road they're taking if they don't turn around the company soon. The games division is just a small part of the Sony empire, and I wish more people acknowledge that.

 

[DragonSworne]

Wii U sales figure are way too optimistic. I say they ship 2.5 million.

3DS is sinking is like a rock and there is nothing that is going to stop it.


Nintendo better have a new system ready next year or it is going to get really ugly.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Their output isn't even that low. It's just that they suck at working with third parties together.

This year Nintendo will give us donkey long, Mario kart, and maybe smash. That's not low output?

 

[Tripon]

Honestly dude, I don't know. I just guessed that was a strategy RPG. It's not a genre I particularly get involved with.

I stand by my original point though, both Sony and MS consoles have more diversity in their libraries than Nintendo consoles.

Fair enough. I would disagree with you, but in order to avoid a list war, I will just leave it at that.

 

[Chindogg]

Maybe that's why 3rd party fail to be successful on Nintendo platforms, we (Nintendo fans) have to high demands on what the quality of the games should be?

Yeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh that's a bit much.

Sony has some really great software lined up. 3rd party fails because of multiple reasons. Hardware not being as powerful/easy to port, user base, etc.

Oh my god.

Edit: You're basically saying you have much better tastes than non Nintendo fans. You're basically loving that high art while we suffer the best pop culture has to offer.

Please don't feed hyberbole with even more hyperbole. It'll only end in tears.

 

[googleplex]

Maybe that's why 3rd party fail to be successful on Nintendo platforms, we (Nintendo fans) have to high demands on what the quality of the games should be?

Lol! Unbelievable.

 

[maquiladora]

UK tabloid press in doom mode today.

The Daily Star : End of Super Mario? Nintendo loses £135million as gamers abandon Wii U

So is this end for Super Mario?

Lets hope the mushroom-stomping Italian plumber makes an appeareance on your smartphone soon.

Yikes.

 

[Exploratory]

That's why I don't buy third party multi platforms on Nintendo systems. Nintendo games have so much polish and tight gameplay and performance that puts to shame 3rd party games on their system. Not all the time though.

It read more like Nintendo games are better than everything else so that's why third party games don't sell well here.

 

[DrROBschiz]

The point is that anyone talking all roses with Sony by just pointing out the Playstation division is going to be surprised when Sony has to declare bankruptcy. Because that is the road they're taking if they don't turn around the company soon. The games division is just a small part of the Sony empire, and I wish more people acknowledge that.

This is a very real circumstance

Wonder what would happen to playstation should the worst happen. Would they be aquired by some other Japanese Giant?

Samsung PS4

 

[KingSnake]

This year Nintendo will give us donkey long, Mario kart, and maybe smash. That's not low output?

You seriously think that is all that is?

 

[Majukun]

I like Iwata

I think his heart was always in the right place. His largest flaw is his unwillingness to acknowledge his competitors and the trends/standards that were being set in motion.

In both the games space and the "new markets" he was hoping to exploit

naaah,i don't judge the person,he seems like an OK guy,but you can't justify someone who has failed to prepair nintendo for HD development in 2012,not making the adjustments (like increasing the workforce) that any other software house on the planet made between 2007 and 2008.
how stuck in your own little world someone can be to fail to rpedict something that already happened to the entire industry 6 if not 7 years ago?

 

[theprodigy]

Maybe that's why 3rd party fail to be successful on Nintendo platforms, we (Nintendo fans) have to high demands on what the quality of the games should be?

The struggle for acceptance is real.

 

[March of the Crabs]

Well I'm going to avoid the idea that third party games are somehow lesser than Nintendo's offerings, but third parties should be aware that it is very easy to find out when their product on another system performs better than it does on a Nintendo system and I'm sure enough people have filled out one of those survey card to inform them that people do own more than one system. The Wii U likely has a consumer base that skews towards the informed consumer. Now of course there are exceptions like NFS being better of Wii U and not performing well but at the same time that was a late port and those interested in it may have already played it on another system.

Yeah people saying that Nintendo fans don't buy third party games due to them somehow being lesser than Nintendo's offerings is just weird and absolutely not true, but there is a nugget of truth buried in there somewhere with what you're talking about. Take Watch_Dogs for example, I had that pre ordered for Wii U because I was hoping for some cool use of the gamepad, but why the fuck would I buy it now when its out months later than the PS4 version that I can buy instead?

 

[pulsemyne]

The number of Nintendo fans going full-on Iraqi Information Minister in here is amazing. There is an almost Fox News level of dedication to talking points.

How bad do sales have to be before some of them acknowledge that Nintendo's current strategy simply is not working?

Everyone realises that the current strategy isn't working, at least as far as the wiiu is concerned. The 3DS on the other hand is doing okay, not great compared to the DS but then again the DS was a monster.
It could be worse but then again it could a shitload better.
I think it's fair to say that the Home console market is going through a crash. Both nintendo and MS are not doing anywhere near as good as they planned. Obviously the two companies are in vastly different positions financially but it still must be concerning. Sony meanwhile are selling lots of machines but not huge amounts of software to go with them and still cannot sell the PSP well overseas.
The obvious culprit in all of this is a the rise of smart phone gaming and the low price of software that goes with it. It has pulled the mind share away from wanting home consoles. In many ways it reminds of the excuse kids used to make in the early 1980's in Europe. We all told our parents that having a home computer would be useful for things like homework etc while all we really want them for was games. Today kids tell their parents they need a smart phone so they can keep in touch with friends an family, all the while they play angry birds.
Will the home console market recover? Probably but it's going to something that captures peoples attention. It needs a machine that really pushes tech again. None of the current consoles do that, they are all machines designed to make money from the off unlike previous generations. It does look like that all three companies do not want to stomach such loses though.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

yup

Oh my days, how can one be so off base....how is he still the CEO.

 

[Asd202]

Maybe that's why 3rd party fail to be successful on Nintendo platforms, we (Nintendo fans) have to high demands on what the quality of the games should be?

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Why do people find what mithos said so contraversal? Its not supposed to be offensive or anything.

 

[Natureboy99]

It's a shame that the Wii U sold so little. It's blatantly going to be the futures dreamcast, in that people, including myself, will be praising it in 10 years

People will praise its games, because yes they are fun. There is nothing to praise about the hardware or OS experience though. Both are trash compared to the competition.

 

[Fourth Storm]

PS4 doesn't have BC with PS3 and yet my purchases of Sound Shapes and Flower carry right over.

PSP games play on Vita, PS3 games are cross buy with PSP and Vita and PS4, and yet these consoles do not have BC with one another.

This is an artificial anticonsumer boundary that Nintendo has created. A PS3 game doesn't work natively on PS4, it has to be ported, and yet Sony generally does not make you buy the port a second time. You just get it, because even if the codebase is different the consumer views it as the same product.

In the case of the VC it is literally the same product. If you buy two 3DSes you can't have your legally purchased games on both of them, and there is no BC issue since those are also literally the same product.

it is straight anticonsumer. XBOX LIVE, Steam, PSN, and iTunes figured all this out at some point in the last 6-12 years. A song you bought on iTunes in 2001 on an iPod can be on your Touch, iPad, iPhone, and iMac today for $0 after your initial purchase. If I bought Super Mario Bros in 2006 on Wii I have to buy it again in 2010 on 3DS and again on Wii U in 2012.

Good point. I'm not expecting a cross-buy for Smash Bros, but for VC titles, Nintendo's current system is highway robbery.

 

[Faustek]

This is a very real circumstance

Wonder what would happen to playstation should the worst happen. Would they be aquired by some other Japanese Giant?

Samsung PS4

Samsung isn't Japanese....Its Korean. South Korean.

Spoiler

sorry but there are two Koreas

 

[Chindogg]

Everyone realises that the current strategy isn't working, at least as far as the wiiu is concerned. The 3DS on the other hand is doing okay, not great compared to the DS but then again the DS was a monster.
It could be worse but then again it could a shitload better.
I think it's fair to say that the Home console market is going through a crash. Both nintendo and MS are not doing anywhere near as good as they planned. Obviously the two companies are in vastly different positions financially but it still must be concerning. Sony meanwhile are selling lots of machines but not huge amounts of software to go with them and still cannot sell the PSP well overseas.
The obvious culprit in all of this is a the rise of smart phone gaming and the low price of software that goes with it. It has pulled the mind share away from wanting home consoles. In many ways it reminds of the excuse kids used to make in the early 1980's in Europe. We all told our parents that having a home computer would be useful for things like homework etc while all we really want them for was games. Today kids tell their parents they need a smart phone so they can keep in touch with friends an family, all the while they play angry birds.
Will the home console market recover? Probably but it's going to something that captures peoples attention. It needs a machine that really pushes tech again. None of the current consoles do that, they are all machines designed to make money from the off unlike previous generations. It does look like that all three companies do not want to stomach such loses though.

Finally a sensible post.

 

[Shiggy]

This year Nintendo will give us donkey long, Mario kart, and maybe smash. That's not low output?

Yoshi Yarn
Bayonetta 2
X
Hyrule Warriors

And there will also be some 3rd party titles like Watch Dogs... and umm Watch Dogs, that's it!

 

[DECK'ARD]

Maybe that's why 3rd party fail to be successful on Nintendo platforms, we (Nintendo fans) have to high demands on what the quality of the games should be?

Jesus, that's the attitude that Nintendo themselves had and which got them into this mess from the N64 onwards.

If you create a platform for a certain type of audience then that is the people you are selling to.

3rd parties don't sell because Nintendo don't have a mainstream audience anymore, that audience is elsewhere on platforms which they know to cater to them.

Nintendo bet the house on a casual audience which was lost just as easily as it was won, and efforts to win back any of the mainstream audience were completely drowned out because they are still a generation behind the curve.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Samsung isn't Japanese....Its Korean. South Korean.

Spoiler

sorry but there are two Koreas

Lmao

Thats right

Thanks for the correction

 

[Stumpokapow]

RE: "They're only losing money because of R&D"

Err, sure. R&D includes software development and hardware development. It's not white lab code advanced minority report R&D. It's daily operations of making software and hardware. If a gaming company is losing money because of R&D, what it means is that their current software is not selling enough to cover their costs in making new software.

Like, if you imagine a company called Electronic Activities that produces games (but not for Nintendo consoles, because they're evil and just butthurt over unprecedented partnerships!!!! and their games sucks anyway so who wants them!!!!), and that company is known for losing all sorts of money because it has tons of games in development that don't get released or that get released but don't break even, what that would look like is high R&D.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Yoshi Yarn
Bayonetta 2
X
Hyrule Warriors

And there will also be some 3rd party titles like Watch Dogs... and umm Watch Dogs, that's it!

Where you got yoshi yarn from buddy?

 

[Shiggy]

Why do people find what mithos said so contraversal? Its not supposed to be offensive or anything.

Read my posts and you will see that it doesn't make sense. If it was related to quality, then stinkers such as Yoshi's New Island would not sell as well as they do.

Where you got yoshi yarn from buddy?

Is it cancelled all of a sudden?

 

[shinra-bansho]

The home console market isn't going through a crash. :|

And the 3DS isn't just comparing unfavorably to the NDS.

 

[RedSwirl]

As far as their next hardware goes, I just think Nintendo needs to give up the idea of releasing a low-wattage machine for the Japanese market. That's pretty much what got them into the Wii and Wii U.

I hope Nintendo doesn't stubbornly think they can target another console specifically towards that market and somehow revive it. That shit is done. Sony has already given up and turned PlayStation into an American operation. However, Sony already has a large American side of its company. NOA on the other hand is a glorified localization house -- all the control at Nintendo is still with the Kyoto guys who have a vague-at-best understanding of where the western console market has gone. If they do have a good understanding of it, then they're deliberately fighting against where it's gone.

In light of this, it probably does make the most sense to start with a new handheld and then design a console using a beefed-up version of the same architecture, running the same software on your TV. But it has to be something that actually feels new.

Nintendo has kind of been going on gambles for innovation for the last 10 years and the Wii U was one that didn't work out. I don't think just doing a completely traditional machine will get Nintendo anywhere because they can't compete with the people already doing that. I think we've determined the console market doesn't have enough room for three traditional competitors. Creating something "new" is what Nintendo is likely to continue trying anyway. It seems like their mission has been to create something so "new" it steers the market back into their control. The Wii almost did this but couldn't follow through on developer support. Perhaps the unified handheld/console architecture might be seen as something innovative enough in the area of traditional games. Apple, Google, and Amazon are already sort of doing this in the mobile and set-top box area, but it could have interesting effects if Nintendo tried it in traditional gaming.

I think that, however, would rely on Nintendo's new platform getting the same third party support Nintendo handhelds usually get, and that depends on whether that market hasn't been totally devoured by mobile. In that area Nintendo definitely needs to pull indies more than it is already, and possibly even start talking to mobile developers. I'm not saying leave the future eShop totally open to the current mobile environment, but maybe start talking to some of the top mobile developers. But all that would require Nintendo start talking to third parties at all instead of just expecting third parties to come to them. The big AAA western guys are probably lost to Nintendo at this point, with the exception of Ubisoft.

 

[Tobor]

It's interesting that a whenever the prospect of Nintendo going third party comes up, we are told that the lineup of software will suffer, and only hit franchises will be produced. The examples of this loss are always the same. Bayonetta and w101.

If the loss of a few games like that is the only negative result, then I don't see it as a problem. The Mario's and Zelda's and what have you are what most people want from Nintendo anyway. And while they are not enough to support a first party platform with no third party support, they would be an excellent addition to any other platforms third party library.

 

[deleted]

I hope they get the foundation right with their next console/handheld/hybrid.

Doesn't matter if the hardware itself doesn't hold up against the competitors, what's important first and foremost is that they deliver on the software side:

Have a well featured, fast working, well thought out UI that is up to todays standards and doesn't lagg behind in any area (e.g. account system, slow as hell in the beginning, online-functionality).
Don't have illogical things like the Wii U Pro Controller working everywhere except the eShop (that is controllable without touch input via gamepad) and not even being supported by all of your games, even if it would make sense.
Get someone who can actually present the game that has to sell the console (Nintendoland was an amazing 5 player experience no one wanted to play because you overexplained the wrong aspects of it).
Minimize consumer confusion as much as possible

Have a well documented infrastructure (in English as well) and a fast working communication with third party and indie devs.

Focus on your strength (local multiplayer is wanted and not offered by most devs anymore, no one has such a huge vault like Nintendo - so pull all stops on the VC and make it appealing for 3rd parties as well) and work on your weaknesses (online, output etc. ).

In one sentence: They lack in every area except games and they have a lot of work in front of them. If they want to stay relevant they have to nail it the next time. No other way about it.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

I think the main idea is that there are people that are interested in 1-2 big Nintendo games, but don't want to buy a console just for that and to offer them more games as incentives. Of course they didn't bet on W101 to sell that bad. They probably hoped that it will sell better by bringing more "non Nintendo fans" on board together with Pikmin 3, Zelda WW HD, SM3DW during last holidays. It didn't work. The same bet is on Bayo 2 this year in a package with MK8 and SSB 4. They did this even during Wii (when they didn't have to do it) funding several small niche games.

As I said, they should have bet on FPS and sports too, that's a big omission.

I think that they thought Pikmin, Windwaker and 3D World would have wider appeal outside their existing fanbase says everything about how lacking in diversity their lineup is.

I just think if they're truly looking to have a wide variety of content on their platform, they simply can't half ass it. Looking to the past for franchises they haven't made a sequel for in a while isn't good enough - they need to dispassionately look at the gaps in their lineup and go about seeking titles outside of their own back catalogue that will fill them. However...

Because this is what they are good at. They should compensate this by using Monolith Soft (like they use with X), building more diverse 1st party studios and making 3rd party collaborations, as they try now.

I think this might be a more sensible route. Continue to primarily focus on their existing fanbase, and expand carefully outside of that comfort zone over time. But I don't think they've even been doing that well enough. Perhaps their Japanese lineup is starting to get a bit more diverse, but in the West, it just seems like they're treading water.