[1] US 8th Gen LTD
[2] US Handheld TTM HW
Not sure what exactly is baffling.
Probably because I'm not just looking to cherrypick numbers from the United States, thanks for sharing though.
Ubisoft: "We won't be showing off any Nintendo games at E3 this year"
- Thread starter Jimmyfenix
- Start date
Probably because I'm not just looking to cherrypick numbers from the United States, thanks for sharing though.
block tower
Member
Nintendo made more money and retained more profits than Sony, sure, but Nintendo's market-share disappeared quicker and faster than Sony. like i said in a previous post, money is irrelevant, if you have no market-share whats the point is releasing consoles. obviously Nintendo has some semblance of market-share, but how long is that even going to last considering the trend of console sales declining every generation. at worst Sony has a red vs black issue but has market-share to redeem itself in terms of profitability, i see Nintendo's issue of relevance a much tougher issue to reconcile.
thanks, that's exactly what i meant.
MisterGrey3000
Member
lol
It's possible that some miracle game could propel the PS4 towards PS3's LTD in the contracting young male market, but it's not likely(Just like MK8 giving WiiU some sort of miraculous resurrection for the rest of it's life cycle isn't very likely)
Also the PS2 to PS3 drop off is equivalent to the SNES to N64 drop off. That's a pretty big decline. I don't understand how it's disingenuous to point out that information. :/
LegendofLex
Member
I actually really really do think many publishers do indeed see that audience as "beneath them." Even Nintendo has demonstrated across both 3DS and Wii U that they only really go after the non-traditional market when they need to save face.
I mean, for every one really good effort on Wii from a major publisher, there were at least 4-5 on other platforms. Development culture is pretty fundamentally skewed in that way, and I think we're going to wind up seeing that intensify with these new platforms.
No one is going to say no to profits, but they tend to only reluctantly say yes. (Notice how we don't really find out about big hits from these publishers' mobile teams?)
I mean, for every one really good effort on Wii from a major publisher, there were at least 4-5 on other platforms. Development culture is pretty fundamentally skewed in that way, and I think we're going to wind up seeing that intensify with these new platforms.
No one is going to say no to profits, but they tend to only reluctantly say yes. (Notice how we don't really find out about big hits from these publishers' mobile teams?)
a secret-boss
Banned
Maybe this wat E3 judges meant don't expect anything
The comment said Nintendo games. Just Dance for the Wii is still the best selling sku. No Just Dance 2015 for the Wii would be death to the franchise. And a simple port of to the Wii U isn't hard.
Yeah, you guys are just reading to much into this comment.
prag16
Banned
That's nonsense. They've yet to even lose one year's worth of Wii profits in the past three. Don't exaggerate to push a narrative. It weakens said narrative.
You're trying too hard. Ubi isn't this stupid. The Wii version of JD 2014 outsold all others combined I'm pretty sure. And the Wii U SKU was at least competitive with the other platforms if not beating some of them.
Ubisoft would only completely drop Nintendo from JD if they hate money.
Chinpoko_Master
Member
How is he cherrypicking? lol
I sure am enjoying mine. While I can only speak for myself, I don't want a third console doing the same thing as the other two that are available, while sharing most of the same games. Being the odd man out has ironically made Nintendo more than relevant to me again.
MisterGrey3000
Member
I can respect where you're coming from
However, I'd personally love for Nintendo to communicate with 3rd party companies(Western or not) who are interested in creating 2D/3D platformers, Zelda-like action games, and kart racers(Believe it or not, they actually exist). it would give their console a lot of momentum, and we'd get even more "Nintendo-like" games from different companies. It would sort of be equivalent to what's going down on SONY/MS's consoles, but with games that Nintendo fans and casuals/families/kids really love to play.
I can always get a Playstation for Mass Effect n stuff.
I'm sorry, are you asking how it's cherrypicking to show hardware sales results from only one country, or were you unclear on the fact those are U.S.-only numbers?
airmangataosenai
Member
Japan isn't relevant to Ubisoft's business model so Wii U sales there don't matter for this discussion, and we don't have exact sell-through numbers for Europe. So no, it is not cherry-picking. Especially when you consider huge the American market it for the industry as a whole. It isn't like we're talking about sales in Lithuania here.
That's really what you got out of that?
But anyway, Nintendo skipping their E3 press conference means that all their publishing partners miss a chance at a guaranteed spotlight during a major press conference at arguably the largest gaming event of the year.
shinra-bansho
Member
Feel free to provide these expansive numbers you're privy to showing the massive market for Western publishers' games on the 3DS/handhelds or the runaway success of the Wii U relative to the PS4 and XBO.
They're generally having better luck from this angle too.
DQM:SL is doing well, and EA's mobile revenue has hit $500 million a year.
Feel free to provide these expansive numbers you're privy to showing the massive market for Western publishers' games on the 3DS/handhelds.
DS software beating out the Vita, WiiU, and X1?
What the hell are those britbongs buying?
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
This doesn't bode well for Nintendo at E3.
shinra-bansho
Member
Bargain bin/catalog titles.
Ubisoft seem to be trying to do the same in terms of software like their CSI licensed games, assuming "other" refers to those revenues. But they've a long ways to go in terms of filling the void left by the decline of the NDS.
Code:
Rev (Euros) FY14 FY13 FY12 FY11 FY10
Handhelds 10.071 37.686 42.452 62.328 156.78
"Others" 30.213 25.124 42.452 31.164 17.42EDIT: Although, I imagine the Others revenue is higher margin.
MisterGrey3000
Member
How did you come to this conclusion?
They'll still have their own games to show at E3.
DeuceGamer
Member
Nintendo, step yo game up! You have to learn from this gen. I fear they are taking the wrong lesson from this situation though. It's great they are combining architectures so they have greater output on both handheld and home console but I hope they don't pull away from third parties further thinking their internal output is all that is needed. As a gamer it's hard to see how far Nintendo has dropped...
Still love my Wii U and think it has some amazing exclusives.
Still love my Wii U and think it has some amazing exclusives.
I don't understand. Ubisoft sees small sales on the Wii U, and that means the Wii U is a disaster. Ubisoft sees small sales in Japan, so that "isn't relevant."
In a world where Grand Theft Auto can chart in Japan, maybe the issue isn't Nintendo but "Ubisoft's business model," as you put it.
So are we talking software units in the U.K., or are we talking hardware units in the U.S., or are we talking cash from operations on handhelds in the U.S.? These charts are all apples-to-oranges and, to finish the fruit salad, you're still cherrypicking.
We have global hardware unit estimates and any number of comprehensive sales metrics from quarterly numbers recently released. They show some pretty bad news in the industry all around, and by last estimates, the Wii U and PS4 have sold a congruous number of units worldwide and the Xbox One has sold less. All three of those hardware manufacturers are also doing pretty poorly on the balance sheet, regardless of whatever torqued figures go at the top of their press releases.
But keep posting a bunch of unrelated graphs, please, because the sobering reality won't elicit many LOLOLOLOLOLs.
shinra-bansho
Member
Feel free to tell me what exactly you are talking about, and then go ahead and provide whatever information you deem necessary to validate what it is you're talking about. Because you haven't done anything of the sort yet. You stated some sort of astonishment that people think the Wii U is selling poorly relative to the other two platforms, and some sort of perplexity at the idea that publishers aren't targeting the declining handheld market.
Clearly the decline of handheld sales in the US market which comprises roughly 40% of the global market, and more-so for Western publishers like Ubisoft is entirely irrelevant to Ubisoft's decision making regarding release platforms.
And clearly the decline of handheld software in the UK market, which comprises around 10% of the global market and roughly a quarter of the European market is entirely irrelevant to Ubisoft's decision making regarding release platforms.
Yes, clearly the time frame of sales has no bearing on how well a product is doing. Selling 2M units in 19 months is obviously the same thing as selling 2M units in 2 months.
None of these figures remotely explains any of the rationale behind the thinking that apparently baffles you.
In a world where Ubisoft sells 620K copies of Assassin's Creed IV at launch, with only 6K of those coming from the Wii U - it's clearly Ubisoft's not Nintendo's problem.
Clearly the decline of handheld sales in the US market which comprises roughly 40% of the global market, and more-so for Western publishers like Ubisoft is entirely irrelevant to Ubisoft's decision making regarding release platforms.
And clearly the decline of handheld software in the UK market, which comprises around 10% of the global market and roughly a quarter of the European market is entirely irrelevant to Ubisoft's decision making regarding release platforms.
Yes, clearly the time frame of sales has no bearing on how well a product is doing. Selling 2M units in 19 months is obviously the same thing as selling 2M units in 2 months.
None of these figures remotely explains any of the rationale behind the thinking that apparently baffles you.
In a world where Ubisoft sells 620K copies of Assassin's Creed IV at launch, with only 6K of those coming from the Wii U - it's clearly Ubisoft's not Nintendo's problem.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
This is an odd statement in a post complaining about cherrypicking and comparing apples and oranges
I'm just saying
Worldwide sales isn't that far off with regards to the sales gap and number of months either.
Didn't you know Nintendo only expects to ship 3.6m units in a year now?
that's awful and doesn't bode well with third parties too.
Forgottonone
Member
I can hope Capcom hasn't abandoned the Wii U yet
What matters to Ubisoft is how many hardware units are out in the six months following one of its releases, because as anyone who has been to a video game store knows, after the launch period they whittle the prices of their games away to nothing. If you said Ubisoft pursues some sort of long-tail software strategy and the Wii U is just not going to have the sales to accommodate that, while I might disagree with the point in specifics, that is certainly an clear argument. However, Ubisoft does not pursue sustained software sales, at least not at anything resembling full prices.
And that's the contradiction I find baffling -- the idea that what these consoles will have sold in 2016 or 2017 is of any interest to one of the most myopic publishers out there.
Fair point, but the larger statement I was trying to make is that any company that writes off a wealthy and interested market of 125 million people because of what they believe is the status quo is not the sort of company that should be lauded for its direction.
If I have to look like a hypocrite to clearly make that point, so be it.
Last year they overestimated, stuck to it quarter after quarter and caught a lot of flak.
This year they reactively lowballed, are clearly looking to beat their estimate and impress investors, and they're catching flak.
I'm not saying that's not fair as it's their job to sell the thing, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say Nintendo only expects to move 3.6 million Wii Us.
I know Wii U isnt selling gangbusters, but have ubisoft released any meaningful games for Nintendo systems that arent Ghost Recon 3DS, Zombi U and Rayman Legends?
Sales figures arent much to write home about, but theyre going to be skewed in platform comparison charts when they arent releasing anything else.
Sales figures arent much to write home about, but theyre going to be skewed in platform comparison charts when they arent releasing anything else.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Chicken or the egg.
Publishers don't release games because of low hardware sales, and hardware sales are low because publishers don't release any games.
Same problem as any struggling platform. A slow start is basically an anvil around the neck of any console not named PS3.
Some ports that are missing DLC and/or key features, and are often outsourced.
I'm not saying sales would've knocked anyone's socks off otherwise but treating the Wii U as a nuisance is going to dissuade people from buying the games on the platform.
They also delayed Rayman Legends within what, two months of the console's launch? Ubisoft just has not acted in good faith on the system, regardless of their total releases on Wii U.
I thought Splintercell Blacklist Wii U version was well made, I own that version. It is a dam shame no one else on Wii U bought that or CoDGhost another excellent Wii U 3rd party title.
shinra-bansho
Member
What matters to Ubisoft is both how many units are sold and how much content they can sell on the hardware units of a platform.
You were already given an example in the last post, regarding the US market.
On an installed base of 1.4M Wii U units, ACIV sold 6K units at launch.
On an installed base of 1.1M PS4 units, ACIV sold 270K+ units at launch.
On an installed base of 900K XBO units, ACIV sold 115K+ units at launch.
The Wii U isn't accommodating any sales strategy for these titles, long-tail, short-tail, prehensile tail.
How many will they have sold? What exactly makes you think Ubisoft doesn't have internal projections? What exactly do your projections that are apparently superior to theirs say that make them "one of the most myopic publishers."
block tower
Member
rokkerkory
Member
Is Wii U still ahead of X1 in US?
LiquidSolid
Member
You're right, he should've used European numbers instead, even though they're far worse than the US ones... The Wii U did so terribly in Europe that Nintendo reported negative shipped units in one quarter last year.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Give me a break. Ubisoft was the only third publisher who put a lot of efforts into the WiiU. They made a core exclusive game for it.
Activision arguably have put more effort into Wii U as far as making multiplatform parity releases. Ubisoft have made one exclusive and a few multiplatform games have been given the shaft via delays (Rayman, Watchdogs).
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Zombie games are not niche at all.
Activision will place their licensed shovelware on a banana if they could.
At least Ubisoft has put some quality games on the WiiU such as Rayman and Child of Light
That was my first thought too.
Maybe because it's already out on the 2 best selling platforms.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I'm kinda weary of repeating myself all the time, but you're not correct in your perspective. Recognize what Nintendo is first. They do not have the mission statement or in house talent to make what you're calling "core targeted games," so they do things like publish Ninja Gaiden RE, pay for and announce Bayo 2, pay marketing for games like zombiu, add clicky sticks to controller because third parties ask for it, incentize development for things likr WD and the titles I mention in the last post. Did it work? Ultimately no. Was it extremely stupid? Maybe in hindsight since it failed but its not like they were winging it. They made some bad bets and the Wii u failed to take off, and Nintendo will re evaluate and try again
velvet_nitemare
Member
Assasins Creed 3, Assasins creed 4, Splinter Cell, Zombi U, Child of Light.
UbiSoft have given Wii U more support than any other major 3rd party dev.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
The PS4 is outpacing every other console ever.