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[Benutzer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITpJulVb_q4

Not sure if this was posted but goddamn. I'm sure 47 minutes of someone ripping on how beta you are sure as hell wouldn't help you deal with whatever problems you have.

Oh shit! Elliot Rodger actually subscribed to ThePlayerSupremeshow's channel. No way this video didn't have an effect on him...

 

[Toparaman]

Wait did he seriously quote Hayden Christensen from Attack of the Clones?



Both this guy and George Lucas should be ashamed.

Okay, I know this is hardly a joking matter, but...so this is what prequel fans are like.

 

[Servbot #42]

You know he did go on a murder spree right

That seems like a pretty good reason tot take him seriously

can you at least take the murderous spree seriously? Despite his reasons. People like this are a real thing. And they are killing people because of your laughable reasoning.

Yeah i do take his killings seriously and i feel for the victims but that video feels to me kinda like a parody honestly sometimes, like someone made a joke video in bad taste. I wonder how many people knew of his views and never took the warning signs seriously.

 

[Aesius]

This guy's story, while extremely disturbing and sad, is also kinda fascinating in a Patrick Bateman way.

His family was obviously wealthy, so he probably didn't need to work or even look for a job. So he just drove around Southern California day after day, alone in his BMW, with his mind swimming in self-hatred, depression, and inferiority.

It's just insane to think about the sequence of events that led him to kill those people. At some point in his adolescence, something happened that sent him down this path.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Sounds like a piece of shit and he died like one. Nobody will miss that warped loser.shame he had to take others with him. What a god damned asshole

 

[Particle Physicist]

Actually, Fiction you make a good point. Most people that talk about the red pill are spreading hate instead of directing it at specific offenders in question. And moderate MRA groups might want to change it's name to men's groups. I'll concede that.

What is this Red Pill and MRA stuff? I am a little lost.

 

[DanteFox]

I had no idea this thread was referring to the shooting that happened here yesterday. When I heard about it yesterday I thought it was gang related. Can't believe it was some crazy, bitter dude, but then again, it usually is one or the other.

 

[Darklord]

The videos are fascinating. It's really exploring the mind of a seriously disturbed person on a personal level. This shouldn't be deleted forever, it should be taken and studied. The way he looks at the couple kissing and so calmly says "I hate them. I hate them so much.".

 

[Devolution]

First thing I actually though of when I heard about this was the book I read: Guyland.

In it Michael Kidder describes how we're all kind of failing young men and not providing them with positive models to strive for.

And one thing I specifically remember was the chapter about college and sex, and the overwhelming delusion that every other male on campus was scoring multiple times a weekend and the guy being interviewed was "always behind, always trying to catch up." Barely anyone was getting laid every weekend but this toxic idea was just never being challenged, instead it was used to inflate the egos of some and shame others.

Obviously this young man got it into his head that his life was missing something, a woman, and despite his social status and car, he couldn't "obtain" one. This is where I feel, and if I'm overreaching oh well, his family failed him in the worst way. He saw people as merely things to complete his life, not individuals worth knowing and experiencing. And his hatred of people able to experience each other grew, and his inability to connect with people on this level never evolved. It was a cycle of constant disappointment for him with no personal growth. And the result is this, he lashed out in the worst possible way at people out of envy.

To me this isn't an episode just to throw away as some mentally deranged or egomaniacal fuck, this should be a wake up call that there are probably people around you who need some emotional support, tough love, just some kind of intervention to realize concepts beyond their awful internet echo chamber.

 

[brianjones]

I feel like I've known this guy. Not this guy in particular, but his traits are very reminiscent of some of the people I grew up with. His obsessiveness with the same topics and the cheap imitation of a cartoon villain all trigger memories with me.

I've seen traits of this even on posts here at gaf

when people talk about ugly guys having hot girlfriends in a passive aggressive way .. gives me chills

not that posting on forums in general is healthy but that body building forum sound pretty

 

[gugi40]

Omg I feel sick. Just watched the video....Jesus.

UGH HIS LAUGH!!!!!

I need to bleach my flesh.

 

[Zeppeli]

That video freaked me the fuck out. Fuck that kid.

 

[Toparaman]

Why didn't this dude just get a prostitute? He had money. He lived in Cali. With as much effort as he put into planning to murder these people and making those awful videos he could have bought himself a nice piece for a night or two. Blonde hair, blue eyes, slim, the works

Because it's not about sex. It's about "achieving" or "winning" sex.

EDIT: Actually, more accurately, it's about being worthy enough to be sexually desired.

 

[Benutzer]

Yes? Are you implying that less than attractive people are unable to get laid even if they have great personalities?

If you pay even the slightest attentuon to people around you, you'll notice that that's the standard way things go. Natural charisma trumps most things, including money (unless you're an elderly billionaire but that's not romance, that's being a mark).

Fat, ugly, happy people are getting laid as I write this.

Who says narcissists can't be charming, happy and have fun? You can't identify the ones that blend in, you probably know at least one narcissist without realizing it.

 

[tuna on toast]

Could the mass murder have been prevented had the forum reacted in a different way?

Possibly. There's a chance he could have been persuaded to get help.

 

[Monocle]

That kid seems like a classic example of the misfit who was let down by his parents and never had any real conversations with more mature people. He talks like he lived in a mental bubble for years with a total lack of self-awareness and social support. I have a feeling professional help could have averted this situation. Tragic for him, especially tragic for his victims.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Try not to hold ill against the dead, for they will not know and it does no good to harbor anger.

 

[Valhelm]

Because it's not about sex. It's about "achieving" or "winning" sex.

I think it's not about achieving sex, but about "earning a woman". He wants the validation of a woman deciding to sleep with him or become his girlfriend.

 

[Darklord]

Possibly. There's a chance he could have been persuaded to get help.

No, I seriously doubt that. He seemed to live in his own fantasy world. Thinking he's the supreme being with a hatred for people and especially women. He isn't the kind who'd be swayed to get help off a forum. This isn't just depression or anger. It's wiring in his brain that's faulty.

 

[water_wendi]

,

 

[Crayons]

First thing I actually though of when I heard about this was the book I read: Guyland.

In it Michael Kidder describes how we're all kind of failing young men and not providing them with positive models to strive for.

And one thing I specifically remember was the chapter about college and sex, and the overwhelming delusion that every other male on campus was scoring multiple times a weekend and the guy being interviewed was "always behind, always trying to catch up." Barely anyone was getting laid every weekend but this toxic idea was just never being challenged, instead it was used to inflate the egos of some and shame others.

Obviously this young man got it into his head that his life was missing something, a woman, and despite his social status and car, he couldn't "obtain" one. This is where I feel, and if I'm overreaching oh well, his family failed him in the worst way. He saw people as merely things to complete his life, not individuals worth knowing and experiencing. And his hatred of people able to experience each other grew, and his inability to connect with people on this level never evolved. It was a cycle of constant disappointment for him with no personal growth. And the result is this, he lashed out in the worst possible way at people out of envy.

To me this isn't an episode just to throw away as some mentally deranged or egomaniacal fuck, this should be a wake up call that there are probably people around you who need some emotional support, tough love, just some kind of intervention to realize concepts beyond their awful internet echo chamber.

I think you've done the best possible explanation in this thread, devo.

 

[Monocle]

It seems he was undergoing professional help. Last i heard his parents saw his Youtube videos and called the police and his doctors shortly before his rampage.

Too little too late, I guess.

 

[Applebite]

There are many sad, potentially relatable aspects to this situation, the experiences he must have had to shape such objectifying and toxic views, the sense of failure he must have experienced as a result of his failure to conform to what he perceived societal views of success were, pressure he may have faced due to his economic status, and (now that it has emerged) the failure of psychiatric services to adequately resolve his issues. It is possible to acknowledge many tragic elements within the event, while simultaneously acknowledging how deplorable the event (and indeed, aspects related to it, such as his misogynistic, cruel views of others) was. By somewhat dehumanising him, viewing him solely as evil or depraved, it seems almost fatalistic, as if the event could never have been stopped and nothing could have been done to prevent it. While that view is one that somebody could have, you're left wondering what you actually do with such deranged people in this instance? Do you simply lock them away? Do you feed into the feeling of persecution? There's not really an easy answer if you view it as something innate, it's just a matter of finding the least bad choice. At least if some degree of empathy can be found for the situation you can feel that he could receive 'more help'. EDIT: Although admittedly, I guess empathising with aspects of the event is different than sympathising as you're suggesting.


The idea that it's beneath him woul likely be some part of it, feeling that he is too good to resort to such methods, but it also extends far beyond a mere desire for sex. His issues are deep-rooted. He has a contempt for other people being happiness, and women's rejection of him. This is misogynistic in its suggestion that they should be 'his' as if women are an object, deluded in his feelings of grandeur and inflated sense of self-importance, and an indication of his inability to recognise the emotions of others. If he had a prostitute, it might not conform to his expectations and could illicit a volatile response. If he had a girlfriend, he would almost certainly not have been able to handle the dynamic and shifting relationship that occurs between intimate (again, not necessarily just sexually) two people, and if things worked out poorly, could further enhance the sense of rejection (and his anger would then be directed in a very specific direction as opposed to this broader rampage). Most of this is speculative, for obvious reasons, and deriving from his videos and posts, but he really did need help (and yes, he was receiving it as we now know, but these issues are what needed to be tackled more than his desire for sex). Perhaps it may have taken the edge off him momentarily, but it would have almost certainly been a stop-gap, and could have led to issues festering and manifesting in an altered manner.

Excellent post. It's much easier to distance ourselves from the guy, point fingers and say "What a sick fuck, rot in hell!" than it is to think about the surroundings that let him become the kind of person that would do what he did. I'm not about to sympathize with him considering the crimes he commited, but he was obviously very much mentally ill. Reminds me of that Marilyn Manson interview back from that (otherwise terrible) documentary Michael Moore did on the Columbine shooting, in which Moore asked him what he would've said to the shooters and Manson replied with: "I wouldn't say a single word to them, I'd listen. And that's what nobody did.".

 

[ChosenPredator]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITpJulVb_q4

Not sure if this was posted but goddamn. I'm sure 47 minutes of someone ripping on how beta you are sure as hell wouldn't help you deal with whatever problems you have.

damn he tore him up but LOL@anime part of the video

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I've seen traits of this even on posts here at gaf

when people talk about ugly guys having hot girlfriends in a passive aggressive way .. gives me chills

not that posting on forums in general is healthy but that body building forum sound pretty

Women can be just as bad. I had an ex-girlfriend that wasn't attractive at all, I just liked her personality. One night, I went out with my ex and her friends. My ex went to the bathroom and one of her friends told me how she was surprised I was dating my ex.

I asked her to explain on what she meant. She answered "I'm just surprised, that's all."

Some people like to hate on others.

 

[King Boo]

it sounds like he had rich parents, and they saw some of his clips. they should have sent him to a psychologist or something.

rip 6 students

 

[freethoughtbubble]

Tony Porter's A Call to Men is this. A men's group whose aim is "a shift social norms that negatively impact our culture and promote a more healthy and respectful definition of manhood." Seeing such groups overshadow hate groups would be great.

Thanks for the link, this is exactly the type of stuff we need to see more of.

I think that since the 1960s there's been a kind of cultural revolution in how male promiscuity is portrayed. A man being promiscuous was always much more permissible than a woman having lots of partners, but that behavior was always pretty looked down-upon by "polite society". In 19th and 18th century novels, a rake or cad is usually a villain, and the male lead almost always only has eyes for his beloved. Now, there's much less of an expectation for a man to get married young and restrain himself sexually, and for the first time in centuries there is essentially no stigma for male promiscuity. A man who has sex with lots of women will probably be praised by all his friends and seen as a god by guys who aspire to be like him. While so many men in the Victorian era and early 20th century took regular advantage of women, it was kept under-the-table. Heterosexual masculinity currently is pretty closely tied to promiscuity. In 2009, the website AskMen listed Don Draper as the most influential man in the world, beating out all the real-life candidates. That speaks volumes about modern Western notions of masculinity.

That's damn fascinating. I would have thought that male promiscuity was a constant virtue throughout Western history. It's an attitude that's obviously detrimental to women, as it encourages viewing them as sexual objects, but it's also a cripplingly large amount of pressure to put on a young man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITpJulVb_q4

Not sure if this was posted but goddamn. I'm sure 47 minutes of someone ripping on how beta you are sure as hell wouldn't help you deal with whatever problems you have.

Ugh, this is exactly the ignorant shit we need to get rid of. Is this guy's entire youtube channel dedicated to "helping" young guys score? Guy looks about 60. That shit ain't creepy at all...

 

[gugi40]

First thing I actually though of when I heard about this was the book I read: Guyland.

In it Michael Kidder describes how we're all kind of failing young men and not providing them with positive models to strive for.

And one thing I specifically remember was the chapter about college and sex, and the overwhelming delusion that every other male on campus was scoring multiple times a weekend and the guy being interviewed was "always behind, always trying to catch up." Barely anyone was getting laid every weekend but this toxic idea was just never being challenged, instead it was used to inflate the egos of some and shame others.

Obviously this young man got it into his head that his life was missing something, a woman, and despite his social status and car, he couldn't "obtain" one. This is where I feel, and if I'm overreaching oh well, his family failed him in the worst way. He saw people as merely things to complete his life, not individuals worth knowing and experiencing. And his hatred of people able to experience each other grew, and his inability to connect with people on this level never evolved. It was a cycle of constant disappointment for him with no personal growth. And the result is this, he lashed out in the worst possible way at people out of envy.

To me this isn't an episode just to throw away as some mentally deranged or egomaniacal fuck, this should be a wake up call that there are probably people around you who need some emotional support, tough love, just some kind of intervention to realize concepts beyond their awful internet echo chamber.

Yes 100% this. 100%

 

[Deified Data]

Yes? Are you implying that less than attractive people are unable to get laid even if they have great personalities?

If you pay even the slightest attentuon to people around you, you'll notice that that's the standard way things go. Natural charisma trumps most things, including money (unless you're an elderly billionaire but that's not romance, that's being a mark).

Fat, ugly, happy people are getting laid as I write this.

I get the point you made, but it was probably your wording that threw him off. A good-looking narcissist is much more likely to get laid than a cool but ugly guy. An insecure, hateful good-looking guy, however...

 

[Foffy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITpJulVb_q4

Not sure if this was posted but goddamn. I'm sure 47 minutes of someone ripping on how beta you are sure as hell wouldn't help you deal with whatever problems you have.

Had to close it when he compared the desire for slim pseudo-anorexic women with "the homosexual agenda."

 

[Deified Data]

Women can be just as bad. I had an ex-girlfriend that wasn't attractive at all, I just liked her personality. One night, I went out with my ex and her friends. My ex went to the bathroom and one of her friends told me how she was surprised I was dating my ex.

I asked her to explain on what she meant. She answered "I'm just surprised, that's all."

Some people like to hate on others.

What a shitty friend she must have been.

 

[Toparaman]

His YouTube channel has Pokemon videos. Clearly the real menace is not GTA or FPSs.

 

[parakeet]

Glad cnn didn't post anything about him. He doesn't deserve it. Saw 30 seconds and now want him to get zero attention. The retribution is his death

 

[Karkador]

First thing I actually though of when I heard about this was the book I read: Guyland.

In it Michael Kidder describes how we're all kind of failing young men and not providing them with positive models to strive for.

And one thing I specifically remember was the chapter about college and sex, and the overwhelming delusion that every other male on campus was scoring multiple times a weekend and the guy being interviewed was "always behind, always trying to catch up." Barely anyone was getting laid every weekend but this toxic idea was just never being challenged, instead it was used to inflate the egos of some and shame others.

Obviously this young man got it into his head that his life was missing something, a woman, and despite his social status and car, he couldn't "obtain" one. This is where I feel, and if I'm overreaching oh well, his family failed him in the worst way. He saw people as merely things to complete his life, not individuals worth knowing and experiencing. And his hatred of people able to experience each other grew, and his inability to connect with people on this level never evolved. It was a cycle of constant disappointment for him with no personal growth. And the result is this, he lashed out in the worst possible way at people out of envy.

To me this isn't an episode just to throw away as some mentally deranged or egomaniacal fuck, this should be a wake up call that there are probably people around you who need some emotional support, tough love, just some kind of intervention to realize concepts beyond their awful internet echo chamber.

It's easy to think people being weird on the internet is just someone trolling, poe's law, etc. Honestly, before I saw news reports on this, I thought it was just way too weird to be true. It was like a parody.

Despite turning to the internet to express his frustrations, I'm not sure if this guy showed any indication of actually listening to anyone about his problems. Or maybe the people who did try to give him real talk, that girls probably don't like him based on his sour-ass personality, just further rubbed him the wrong way (it was the bodybuilding.com forums, for fuck's sake).

It's tough. He probably really was in an echo chamber, constantly repeating to himself the same toxic nonsense. It's still kind of unreal to see it.

 

[SniperHunter]

Glad cnn didn't post anything about him. He doesn't deserve it. Saw 30 seconds and now want him to get zero attention. The retribution is his death

Cnn showed something worse about isis iraq terrorists going around killing people. Disturbing video

 

[parakeet]

Also does the attention cause the murders. When you feel like an outcast you emulate other outcast

 

[Benutzer]

Narcissist sociopaths are probably uniquely equipped to be promiscuous if anything. Not the person we're looking at here obviously.

Hence the word "sullen" in my previous post.

As for narcissists in my own life, my older brother is one. He has been in and out of therapy most of his life because of it. And he absolutely is able to sleep around, although he generally uses his looks to rope in lonely girls who follow his every word until they wake up.

The key with this guy is that he became obsessed with a certain type and did all he thought he needed to to make that type attracted to him. I can all but guarantee he could have had his pick of sad, misguided women at his school, but they were probably invisible to him.

That's where his childhood asperger's diagnosis probably comes in. Someone like my brother knows when to burst into tears, or say the right thing to bolster someone's ego, anything to get what he wants from that person. This killer, on the other hand, tried to apply everything he could that he was convinced would work but lacked the ability of successful sociopaths to emulate the personalities of successful people.

The bolded part is probably true... His narcissism made his failures hurt even more and probably drove the guy deeper into his illusions to protect his self-identity.

I get the point you made, but it was probably your wording that threw him off. A good-looking narcissist is much more likely to get laid than a cool but ugly guy. An insecure, hateful good-looking guy, however...

Exactly, I misunderstood his wording.

 

[Popnbake]

it sounds like he had rich parents, and they saw some of his clips.they should have sent him to a psychologist or something.

rip 6 students

Well it seems that he was getting treatment for Asperger's syndrome.

There have been cases of other murderers in past shootings who also had a history of treatment.
So suggesting professional help is not as simple as it seems when considering ways on how this could have been prevented.

 

[Devolution]

It's easy to think people being weird on the internet is just someone trolling, poe's law, etc. Honestly, before I saw news reports on this, I thought it was just way too weird to be true. It was like a parody.

Despite turning to the internet to express his frustrations, I'm not sure if this guy showed any indication of actually listening to anyone about his problems. Or maybe the people who did try to give him real talk, that girls probably don't like him based on his sour-ass personality, just further rubbed him the wrong way (it was the bodybuilding.com forums, for fuck's sake).

It's tough. He probably really was in an echo chamber, constantly repeating to himself the same toxic nonsense. It's still kind of unreal to see it.

Well this is why I talked about assisting people in real life. Even a forum that's not supportive of someone's toxic ideas can feed into their persecution complex and "me vs the world." It's the kind of thing where it's much harder to lend any sort of constructive criticism at a person even if you want to (not that it's impossible but words on a page vs being able to take someone out with you, talk face to face, experience things with them is a whole other step up to dealing with their problems.) It's entirely possible he was beyond help but there are probably tons who can be assisted and just aren't.

 

[Vazduh]

Backup of same video since the original video will go down forsure.

To say that this was the creepiest/most disturbing thing I've seen in quite a while would be an understatement. This is truly nightmare material.

I feel sorry for the victims and their families, what a tragedy

 

[Durask]

Of course, people with a more natural tendency to do violent stuff should be taken care off. But not by excluding them from society, but with tons of empathy and compassion.

This is not easy at all.

Here's a good article on the subject.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/m...ear-old-a-psychopath.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[Jayburner]

Sick world we live in now.

 

[TangibleDream]

Possibly. There's a chance he could have been persuaded to get help.

That wasn't going to happen.

This kid didn't have some sort of deep-rooted worldview; you know, the kind you potentially change through different exposure or even professional help. Also, he wasn't abused as a kid; it's not the kind of memory you help to erase with psychiatric assistance.

This kid believed--no, "knew" of a reality other than our own. His brain wiring was intrinsically dissimilar. He truly thought the 'earth was flat' and nothing would change his mind. You don't fix people like that.

I'm very saddened by these news; but at the same time I'm glad he's no longer a potential threat.

To all the contrarian, and feel-good theorists out there, it truly says a lot about the argument that if only a community of anonymous bodybuilders had talked to this kid through the lowest form of communication (text) maybe he would have changed his mind. The argument could be made that he could have possibly not done this particular crime, but another one was surely on the way.

Maybe a couple of years from now, he would have been at a party, maybe with a girlfriend, even. He would have seen her talking to some dude, got erratically jealous and shot the place. It has happened before, and for much less. This kid was a time bomb, and the inevitability of his actions was quite apparent from that video.

 

[mr2xxx]

Just watched the video, when I heard he was going to target UCSB students my heart dropped. My sister left with my cousin to UCSB to party with my cousins older sister yesterday. Couldn't get ahold of my sister but did contact my cousin and thankfully they are all fine.

 

[Tregard]

May the victims rest in peace.

 

[InfiniteBento]

Real life Patrick Bateman.

He absolutely was.

This whole situation is so fucked.

I thought he murdered those people out of boredom or without any real purpose like a drive-by but to discover he did all of this because of not being able to find companionship is just absolutely ridiculous. His monstrously huge ego is also incredibly absurd but it was probably a product of his "long endured torment", some sort of coping mechanism perhaps or a persona he adopted due to believing it was something woman wanted or went for. This entire situation is really unfortunate with all things considered especially for the families of those who were just mere victims of this kids suffering.

What bothers me the most is that he's been posting about this and making videos for quite some time and for this to not really set off any alarms, especially with his parents and their apparent awareness of those videos, just completely blows me away. It doesn't look like much was done to correct the obvious problem.

I've never cringed at anything harder than all of this, to be quite honest. This is pretty damn tragic.

 

[Karkador]

Well this is why I talked about assisting people in real life. Even a forum that's not supportive of someone's toxic ideas can feed into their persecution complex and "me vs the world." It's the kind of thing where it's much harder to lend any sort of constructive criticism at a person even if you want to (not that it's impossible but words on a page vs being able to take someone out with you, talk face to face, experience things with them is a whole other step up to dealing with their problems.) It's entirely possible he was beyond help but there are probably tons who can be assisted and just aren't.

like this dude http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=824605

 

[ezekial45]

This is such a damn shame. All of this was so fucking pointless, no one had to die over this.

I wished this guy got the help he needed. All of it could've been avoided.

 

[evilromero]

It's unfortunate these murderers grab the headlines instead of the victims, who should be remembered. It's our cultures sickness and fascination with killers that has always bothered me.

 

[Out of Working Order]

It's tough. He probably really was in an echo chamber, constantly repeating to himself the same toxic nonsense. It's still kind of unreal to see it.

Definitely.

He repeats the same things over and over in his videos.