Seven Dead, Several Hospitalized in Isla Vista Mass Shooting

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This concerns me because I know someone who thinks like this guy, and I have no idea what to do to take precautions in case he ever becomes dangerous. Like, god, it's so spot on. Everything from quoting Hayden Christensen to the narcissism. Fuck.
 
MormaPope said:
For the record, has any murderer cited that another murderer enticed them to do what they wanted to do? Severe mental illness combined with not caring about human life anymore or despising human life is what causes these murder sprees. "Future murderers" don't exist because of other murderers.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defeating_personality_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy

Not a psych major, but I would guess that these would be starting points.



The more people don't acknowledge and accept mental illness existing, the more you encourage future mass murder.
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Personality disorders are not treatable.

IMHO, most people really overestimate what mental health professionals can actually do.

Sure, you can put him on a cocktail of drugs so that he would be too sedated to kill anyone - now why would he consent to that?
 
Forceatowulf said:
I'd give up all the pussy I've ever gotten to have half the privilege this little motherfucker grew up with. Driving around sunny, beautiful, California, in a BMW, with 30 dollar shades, crying about not being able to bust a nut? Are you fucking kidding me?!

I wish I could have a sit-down with every young man in the world and explain to them that sex is an awesome as fuck experience, but it is certainly NOT the alpha and omega of life they might think it is.

Condolences to the victims. To have your life shortened by such a little shit... just.. ugh
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Priviledge is blind to those who have it.

Even if you gave him a speech, he'd still put sex and women and HUMAN Interaction on this pedestal.

His thread on BB was about an Indian guy giving a white blonde girl a ride and how it bothered him.
A fucking ride of all things!
 
The One Who Knocks said:
While that view is one that one could have, your left wondering what you actually do with such deranged people then?
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The truth is - not much unless you are willing to trample on civil rights and give the state the power to lock away anyone on a suspicion of being a potential mass muderer.

As recent mass stabbing in Canada showed, a sufficiently motivated person can kill several people with a kitchen knife.
 
Valhelm said:
The MRA community is absolutely not about helping men. It's a place to vent about feminists, and for men to bond over their anger at all women.
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I think that it is better that they have a place to vent their frustrations and get some kind of support, however twisted we may perceive it.
 
Durask said:
Personality disorders are not treatable.

IMHO, most people really overestimate what mental health professionals can actually do.

Sure, you can put him on a cocktail of drugs so that he would be too sedated to kill anyone - now why would he consent to that?
Click to expand...

Mental illness treatment across the board is still in its beginning stage. Counseling and therapy is better than nothing, and sure, shitty therapists do exist.
 
I think that it's important to note that most MRAs and people in the "pick-up artist community" are guys who want to be having casual sex with lots of women, but aren't. These are young guys, usually under 25, who feel left out by seeing all their peers have sex and be in relationships. Because they're lonely and probably either live with their parents or in a dingy apartment, they don't understand their privilege at all. Always online they're told that they have it easier than women, but on their Facebook news feed all they see is girls their age having a good time. Men's Rights Activists use feminism as a target for their frustration, because they insist that it's the reason why nerdier, less charismatic guys (who may have been bullied in middle school and loners in high school) are hung out to dry. They blame their loneliness not on themselves, but on feminism.

A lot of MRA-type guys desperately want to be Don Draper-style manwhores, sleeping with huge amounts of attractive women and being praised basically just for being a man. Fedoras are (or were) popular among those circles because they hearkened back to a so-called "classier time", where men ostensibly could sleep with any woman just because they had a penis. Most MRAs recognize that the 1960s and earlier was an incredibly misogynistic time period, and because they no longer have the influence to coerce women into sex simply because they're men, MRAs feel like they're not at all privileged. Very few men in PUA communities are actually getting laid, but a handful of promiscuous misogynists inspire the rest of the people in the movement. Online MRA communities are a place for men to vent about how horrible they have it while also blaming feminists and, by extension, all women for their current plight.
 
kirblar said:
Politically (not in the academic version which is pretty even-handed) feminism is an interest group for women, by women. Men needing to organize separately for their gender specific issues is a real thing- the difference being that they really don't require an umbrella.group as large and are probably better off tackling them on a one-issue-at-a-time basis.

You only here about the extremes in everything because that's what gets attention- look at the Suey Park situation.
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I think whether or not men need their movement is a topic for another thread.

As for the rest, I've already said that feminism has still been positive and more well represented than MRA has ever been.

And we are speaking strictly about MRA and not other small groups who act as an actual positive group for men's issues.
 
Forceatowulf said:
Why didn't this dude just get a prostitute? He had money. He lived in Cali. With as much effort as he put into planning to murder these people and making those awful videos he could have bought himself a nice piece for a night or two. Blonde hair, blue eyes, slim, the works

But I guess that would have been "beneath" such a "supreme gentleman" as he.

I need to get out of this thread before I start popping off for real. Shit like this just angers me too much.
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from the videos, it seemed as though he crazed the genuine emotional part of woman. cant get that from a prostitute, especially one you gotta pay for
 
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
who would have thought that if you buy a nice car and nice sunglasses girls still wont want to sleep with you
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That's exactly the problem, really. This guy, like many MRAs, thought that your personality is irrelevant, and that if you're a "nice guy" and have sexy stuff, girls will fall head-over-heels for you. When he, like many other MRAs, realized that a car wasn't enough, he became even more upset at the system that he insisted was meant to keep him down.
 
I think idea of Men's Rights is dumb.

I don't see how you could say Femenism is a healthy alternative for guys like this though.

They really lay into 'nice guys,' losers who cannot get laid like him. I can understand that he would see that community as a hostile environment.
 
Durask said:
I think that it is better that they have a place to vent their frustrations and get some kind of support, however twisted we may perceive it.
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I had this impassioned speech about why it's irresponsible to have a place for that, but I remembered that stormfront is a thing and well... I'd rather have it vented out and in the open online than in secret Cabals offline and out of the sight of NSA and the FBI.
 
Crazy. Condolences to the victims. Also goes to show that all that hoodie and face tattoos talk in a way was misplaced as you cant just judge a person to be a criminal based of clothing or the fact they might look intimidating. This sick fuck killed 6 people and came from a privileged background which even in death will people still probably give him more cover than some kid walking down the street in a hoodie.
 
Stuff don't make you happy and don't make people want to be with you

as soon as he start talking you get the feeling "omg get him away from me now"

If you are pretending to have fun, you might even have a little by accident.
Because, you know... an ugly fun guy will get laid while a good looking narcissist wont.
 
BobbyRobby said:
I think idea of Men's Rights is dumb.

I don't see how you could say Femenism is a healthy alternative for guys like this though.

They really lay into 'nice guys,' losers who cannot get laid like him. I can understand that he would see that community as a hostile environment.
Click to expand...
They don't lay into "nice guys" because they can't get laid. They hate on them because "nice guys" have really shitty views about women. Of course a feminist group will seem like a hostile environment if you don't seem to think women are human beings with agency and instead view them as trophies and rewards.
 
Absolutely horrible :(
I used to live in IV for a while and was absolutely shocked at how nice and welcoming almost everyone was. I can't begin to imagine the pain the family and friends of the victims must feel right now. RIP
 
BobbyRobby said:
I think idea of Men's Rights is dumb.

I don't see how you could say Femenism is a healthy alternative for guys like this though.

They really lay into 'nice guys,' losers who cannot get laid like him. I can understand that he would see that community as a hostile environment.
Click to expand...
They lay into 'nice guys' who turn their frustrations into anger towards women. I don't think they are automatically hostile to all guys who cannot get laid, just that specific type.
 
Valhelm said:
I think that it's important to note that most MRAs and people in the "pick-up artist community" are guys who want to be having casual sex with lots of women, but aren't. These are young guys, usually under 25, who feel left out by seeing all their peers have sex and be in relationships. Because they're lonely and probably either live with their parents or in a dingy apartment, they don't understand their privilege at all. Always online they're told that they have it easier than women, but on their Facebook news feed all they see is girls their age having a good time. Men's Rights Activists use feminism as a target for their frustration, because they insist that it's the reason why nerdier, less charismatic guys (who may have been bullied in middle school and loners in high school) are hung out to dry. They blame their loneliness not on themselves, but on feminism.

A lot of MRA-type guys desperately want to be Don Draper-style manwhores, sleeping with huge amounts of attractive women and being praised basically just for being a man. Fedoras are (or were) popular among those circles because they hearkened back to a so-called "classier time", where men ostensibly could sleep with any woman just because they had a penis. Most MRAs recognize that the 1960s and earlier was an incredibly misogynistic time period, and because they no longer have the influence to coerce women into sex simply because they're men, MRAs feel like they're not at all privileged. Very few men in PUA communities are actually getting laid, but a handful of promiscuous misogynists inspire the rest of the people in the movement. Online MRA communities are a place for men to vent about how horrible they have it while also blaming feminists and, by extension, all women for their current plight.
Click to expand...

Man this is so sad. It makes me realize that young men have so few examples of positive masculinity to turn to. And by positive masculinity I just mean the idea that it's okay to not be a womanizing, bodybuilding, rich, entrepreneurial, alpha male. (This whole alpha-beta distinction is so god damn stupid.)

Of course you can't make money off of a message like that can you? Instead you have these PUA courses being hawked to the insecure and desperate. Jesus.
 
animlboogy said:
You can see how most people would think he was a troll. What 22 year old college student talks and acts like Patrick Bateman down to having a taste for 80's pop music? And not the hip Italians Do It Better fake 80's music, but goofy top 40 shit?

Can you imagine being a 19 year old girl and having this guy give you a ride or something? I'd jump right out of the fucking window.
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Yeah, had I not known what he did before watching the videos I would have thought he was just fucking around. It's quite disturbing.
 
Durask said:
The truth is - not much unless you are willing to trample on civil rights and give the state the power to lock away anyone on a suspicion of being a potential mass muderer.

As recent mass stabbing in Canada showed, a sufficiently motivated person can kill several people with a kitchen knife.
Click to expand...

This I agree with; that is, if we view this as something inherent, that those resonsible are simply evil and that their actions are inevitable, that impeding upon their civil rights is the only possibility (and, for obvious reasons, this cannot be done with it being open for abuse and it punishing people for crimes they have not yet committed). In this instance, you're simply left to accept that there are people beyond help, who are destined to murder others from birth regardless of environmental factors. Perhaps I am being overly idealistic, but this is a notion that I really cannot get behind. While I can certainly acknowledge the possibility of genetic componenets, or factors that may increase the likelihood of such violence, it is difficult for me to accept that there are not some environmental factors, however small (even if unique to each case), that contribute, and which could be improved upon. I guess, ultimately, MormaPope's response to your post about personality disorders is one that I too feel, trying something (admittedly, as he comments, mental health services are still in their infancy and methods of treatment improving so while, today, there may not be anything possible, it's only by adaption to failure in order to find an effective treatment that they can develop further) is better than nothing, so long as it doesn't provoke things further (and obviously this is a major stipulation).
 
Durask said:
The truth is - not much unless you are willing to trample on civil rights and give the state the power to lock away anyone on a suspicion of being a potential mass muderer.

As recent mass stabbing in Canada showed, a sufficiently motivated person can kill several people with a kitchen knife.
Click to expand...

Then you have to lock away almost everyone since most people have the potential to be very violent. It is mostly a thing of circumstances and context. Think of soldiers or mob lynchings, for instance.

Of course, people with a more natural tendency to do violent stuff should be taken care off. But not by excluding them from society, but with tons of empathy and compassion.
 
freethoughtbubble said:
Man this is so sad. It makes me realize that young men have so few examples of positive masculinity to turn to. And by positive masculinity I just mean the idea that it's okay to not be a womanizing, bodybuilding, rich, entrepreneurial, alpha male. (This whole alpha-beta distinction is so god damn stupid.)

Of course you can't make money off of a message like that can you? Instead you have these PUA courses being hawked to the insecure and desperate. Jesus.
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Tony Porter's A Call to Men is this. A men's group whose aim is "a shift social norms that negatively impact our culture and promote a more healthy and respectful definition of manhood." Seeing such groups overshadow hate groups would be great.
 
Watching his videos hits really close to home. I feel sorry for the guy, because I know how frustrating and lonely it is when you have never had a social life, sex or been intimate with a woman.

The guy was utterly fixated on women. You can tell he spent way too much time in his own head, and missed out on vital social interactions growing up. You can sense the rage bubbling underneath in his videos.

I myself have contemplated suicide because I face similar problems to him, but I absolutely would never hurt anyone else. I also don't believe I am a 'perfect gentleman', more deserving, or anything of the sort. I recognise that I just wasn't socialised enough as a youngster, so I never developed as I should have. I've ended up awkward - both in conversation and the way I hold myself - and unable to form friendships with women or men.

If there's one thing I've learnt in this life, it's that socialising is key. Nobody should become as isolated or feel as socially excluded as this.
 
Durask said:
The truth is - not much unless you are willing to trample on civil rights and give the state the power to lock away anyone on a suspicion of being a potential mass muderer.

As recent mass stabbing in Canada showed, a sufficiently motivated person can kill several people with a kitchen knife.
Click to expand...
We can do it for terrorists, why not for the mentally ill?
 
ameratsu said:
The 'retribution' video in the OP has been taken down. Anyone have an alternative link?
Click to expand...

There's a backup link in the OP, I'm watching it now.

I'm half way through and it seems this could have all been avoided if he had got his dick sucked once.
 
Pau said:
They don't lay into "nice guys" because they can't get laid. They hate on them because "nice guys" have really shitty views about women. Of course a feminist group will seem like a hostile environment if you don't seem to think women are human beings with agency and instead view them as trophies and rewards.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand the dislike. I share it. They are bad, but also pitiable.

I am just saying that someone who has those tendencies won't feel welcomed by the feminist community.

Men need positive, masculine role models. People who are masculine but not assholes.
 
BobbyRobby said:
Yeah, I understand the dislike. I share it. They are bad, but also pitiable.

I am just saying that someone who has those tendencies won't feel welcomed by the feminist community.

Men need positive, masculine role models. People who are masculine but not assholes.
Click to expand...

I direct you to the VinBook, Vin Diesel's Facebook page. He's all about muscles, puppies and sunshine.
 
Wow, RIP to the victims. I've seen that puahate forum he posted on before, it's seriously the creepiest/saddest shit. The cops should probably look into anyone that posts there because they all act just like this psycho.
 
I have to admit i laughed at the video, the whole thing seems like parody and the dude laughs like a cartoon villain. His reasons are so fucking silly to go on a murderous spree so i cannot take him seriously at all. Guess he was just fucking crazy.
 
Gexecuter said:
I have to admit i laughed at the video, the whole thing seems like parody and the dude laughs like a cartoon villain. His reasons are so fucking silly to go on a murderous spree so i cannot take him seriously at all. Guess he was just fucking crazy.
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You know he did go on a murder spree right

That seems like a pretty good reason tot take him seriously
 
Gexecuter said:
I have to admit i laughed at the video, the whole thing seems like parody and the dude laughs like a cartoon villain. His reasons are so fucking silly to go on a murderous spree so i cannot take him seriously at all.
Click to expand...

can you at least take the murderous spree seriously? Despite his reasons. People like this are a real thing. And they are killing people because of your laughable reasoning.
 
nubbe said:
Stuff don't make you happy and don't make people want to be with you

as soon as he start talking you get the feeling "omg get him away from me now"

If you are pretending to have fun, you might even have a little by accident.
Because, you know... an ugly fun guy will get laid while a good looking narcissist wont.
Click to expand...

lol, really?

Loakum said:
What's really sad about this tragedy, is it's becoming way too common. and all the victims, that affects their family and friends. :(
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I wonder if it really becomes more common... sometimes it definitely feels like it.

edit: The prevalence of antisocial personality disorder: 1% of the U.S. adult population.
 
Ugh, this happened in my home town. A friend texted me this morning with "Did you hear about the shooting in IV? 7 dead." and my stomach just took a shit dive. I'm afraid to check Facebook to see if anyone I know was injured or worse :(
 
freethoughtbubble said:
Man this is so sad. It makes me realize that young men have so few examples of positive masculinity to turn to. And by positive masculinity I just mean the idea that it's okay to not be a womanizing, bodybuilding, rich, entrepreneurial, alpha male. (This whole alpha-beta distinction is so god damn stupid.)

Of course you can't make money off of a message like that can you? Instead you have these PUA courses being hawked to the insecure and desperate. Jesus.
Click to expand...

I think that since the 1960s there's been a kind of cultural revolution in how male promiscuity is portrayed. A man being promiscuous was always much more permissible than a woman having lots of partners, but that behavior was always pretty looked down-upon by "polite society". In 19th and 18th century novels, a rake or cad is usually a villain, and the male lead almost always only has eyes for his beloved. Now, there's much less of an expectation for a man to get married young and restrain himself sexually, and for the first time in centuries there is essentially no stigma for male promiscuity. A man who has sex with lots of women will probably be praised by all his friends and seen as a god by guys who aspire to be like him. While so many men in the Victorian era and early 20th century took regular advantage of women, it was kept under-the-table. Heterosexual masculinity currently is pretty closely tied to promiscuity. In 2009, the website AskMen listed Don Draper as the most influential man in the world, beating out all the real-life candidates. That speaks volumes about modern Western notions of masculinity.
 
Valhelm said:
I think that since the 1960s there's been a kind of cultural revolution in how male promiscuity is portrayed. A man being promiscuous was always much more permissible than a woman having lots of partners, but that behavior was always pretty looked down-upon by "polite society". In 19th and 18th century novels, a rake or cad is usually a villain, and the male lead almost always only has eyes for his beloved. Now, there's much less of an expectation for a man to get married young and restrain himself sexually, and for the first time in centuries there is essentially no stigma for male promiscuity. A man who has sex with lots of women will probably be praised by all his friends and seen as a god by guys who aspire to be like him. While so many men in the Victorian era and early 20th century took regular advantage of women, it was kept under-the-table. Heterosexual masculinity currently is pretty closely tied to promiscuity. In 2009, the website AskMen listed Don Draper as the most influential man in the world, beating out all the real-life candidates. That speaks volumes about modern Western notions of masculinity.
Click to expand...

I don't what's worse, the cultural landscape shifting where men feel the need for sexual rendezvous to define them, or the fact men take the shit put on AskMen as the be all end all of masculinity.

AskMen is a rag of an online publication.
 
I feel like I've known this guy. Not this guy in particular, but his traits are very reminiscent of some of the people I grew up with. His obsessiveness with the same topics and the cheap imitation of a cartoon villain all trigger memories with me.

Only none of those people ever actually murdered anyone.

I'm sad that he didn't get the help he needed. I'm even more sad for the victims of this guy though. It's shitty that he took out so many innocent people and seriously harmed so many others. It's even shittier that his youtube history will live on as a sort of legacy. Downvoted or not, he'll be a hero to some- and a source of fascination to so much more.

In a sense, it's good that there's some actual breadcrumbs to follow for this case of mental illness. In another sense though, it's fucking shame that the media will once again spend 95% of their time talking about the killer over the people that were killed.
 
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